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MF digital newbies, so what have you learned
- Thread starter Guy Mancuso
- Start date
G
GASC
Guest
I agree that the M9 is the perfect complement of MF users. To me the M9 files are the best 35mm available to date, probably because of the lack of AA, the good job Leica engineer did on electronics and the Leica glasses. (I couldn't care less about the DR stuff wich is always enough IMO in any high-end gear)
Ps: Even today in print, the now old Leica DMR for the R system would not be ridiculous at all in front of modern Canikons.
Ps: Even today in print, the now old Leica DMR for the R system would not be ridiculous at all in front of modern Canikons.
David Schneider
New member
Well, yes and no. Maybe true for you and if it is, that's great. But some of us need to use a 400mm lens and ISO 6400 on the sideline of a night soccer/football game. Or 15mm fisheye or 12-24mm at a wedding. Or prefer the sweet spot of the 160-185mm range of a 70-200mm. These are things my Hassie H3d2-39 can't do, nor can an M9.
So it depends on what type of photography you do. If what you do can't be done with mf, but can with M9, then it's perfect for you. If it can't, it isn't and that takes nothing away from either mf or M9.
David, That's why I wrote in my post (a few posts above)...the following --->>> "Each system (MFD, rangefinder, DSLR, 4/3ths etc.) will always have its strengths, whether strictly for file size/quality, shallow depth of field, stealth/portability, or for applications (sports, wildlife) where particular attributes make it a natural for tackling the job. As is often said, picking the right tool for the job is what's important."<<<
Although I think the M9 is a great complement to MFD...I also wrote above that I'm finding the 35mm DSLR almost indispensable for just the kinds of shoots you mentioned. Thats why I find it personally difficult to switch completely over for some of us and in that regard I completely agree with you.
Dave (D&A)
MaxKißler
New member
I said I'd check out the thread on the LL forum, right? It actually took me two entire minutes of my life to realise that I've got more important things to waste my youth on...
Regarding DR, I guess I just continue thinking that CCD sensors have 12 f-stops and CMOS 7 f-stops of DR and leave it well enough alone.
David Schneider
New member
We agree. But you said "the perfect complement" and that's different than "a great complement." It could be perfect for the right photographer depending on his needs, especially for a non-professional. Absolutely.
MF has lots of warts and baggage. But it unquestionably produces better images in most situations for many photographers than any smaller format. But rare is the mf owner who doesn't have a smaller format camera system at the ready. And conversly, common is the photographer who believes his dlsr produces images that are of high resolution, tack sharp, and feels no need for a camera system that produces higher quality (in most situations).
MF has lots of warts and baggage. But it unquestionably produces better images in most situations for many photographers than any smaller format. But rare is the mf owner who doesn't have a smaller format camera system at the ready. And conversly, common is the photographer who believes his dlsr produces images that are of high resolution, tack sharp, and feels no need for a camera system that produces higher quality (in most situations).
IMO the M9 is a great complent for MF IF it is about size and weight.
However if it is about functionality and flexibility and higher ISO I would say a DSLR complements a MF Kit even better, because it offers faster(er) AF, weather sealing, zooms, flexible flash system, long Tele etc.
IQ wise the M9 and MF might be closer to gether, but also restriction wise they are closer together, besides size and speed of lenses.
However if it is about functionality and flexibility and higher ISO I would say a DSLR complements a MF Kit even better, because it offers faster(er) AF, weather sealing, zooms, flexible flash system, long Tele etc.
IQ wise the M9 and MF might be closer to gether, but also restriction wise they are closer together, besides size and speed of lenses.
G
GASC
Guest
I agree absolutly. My post was not very precise. I had in my mind, refering to the perfect complement, only the file's types or render that IMO is the closest to what MF delivers but having said that I fully agree with what you point here.
Cheers.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
My problem with the M9 which I agree is a great compliment to MF since it has no AA filter , great lenses and produces images very similar to MF is the limitations on the system itself and i tried with the M8 for awhile as my only system. In the end it could not be done and still need that DSLR 35mm versatility. But I agree it is a great compliment IF you can get away with the limitations.
Now having said all that let me get into my thinking with MF and Sensor Plus and here this solved a big issue with not buying a DSLR 35mm as it gets you higher ISO and i do mean higher as ISO 1600 is deadly good and you do get a little speed boost as well in shooting and I used this setup a lot shooting runway, PR stuff and a lot of stuff one would normally use there 35mm system on and it does work very well. I got away with this for quite awhile and looks like I maybe going back to get my new IQ back but right now I have been using the Sony 850. Frankly the biggest reason I have is not so much for shooting something easier which it does BUT it has more to do with using my Phase system so much and wearing it down and lets be honest i am a little nervous about it getting stolen or damaged. Reason being is sometimes when on a gig my bag may not be anywhere near me and under a table or something like that while I am shooting and someone could walk off with the rest of my gear. I have really no issue losing a couple Sony lenses or maybe better said it is a 5k investment over a 25k investment in your bag with some risks shooting. I know many don't have this issue but for me it is a concern sometimes and also on some gigs I really don't care so much about the best IQ for the job since it maybe web stuff and so on. But these are all considerations one has to take into account. I could easily go right back to shooting the Phase with sensor plus and really not miss a beat over the versatility over the 35mm cam.
Now I know some may say they can't do that as they need the 35mm for some things what a Phase sensor plus can't do and totally understand that comment since it would be hard for some things. But in my mind in all honesty I could sell the Sony tomorrow and not miss a beat going back to Phase only. I did the other night shooting handheld with studio lights shooting some fashion stuff. With low modeling lights and difficult focusing for the cam I had a huge keeper rate and no Sony or Nikon/Canon would have beat that rate by much if any at all and I shot full res the whole time. No maybe not everyone could do as well as me with going MF only but I will say some of these limitations folks put on MF without even trying to shoot them in these situations. Hate to say it since I am a partner in this forum but don't believe everything you read as too we can't do this or that, most of that comes from non MF shooters or lazy shooters that have not REALLY tried hard to get it done. One reason I bought the P40+ was for sensor plus and these situations and believe me even at 10 mpx sensor plus it acts like a 15 mpx cam at the end of the IQ chain. BTW this is a very revealing thread on sensor plus and worth a read http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13379
Now having said all that let me get into my thinking with MF and Sensor Plus and here this solved a big issue with not buying a DSLR 35mm as it gets you higher ISO and i do mean higher as ISO 1600 is deadly good and you do get a little speed boost as well in shooting and I used this setup a lot shooting runway, PR stuff and a lot of stuff one would normally use there 35mm system on and it does work very well. I got away with this for quite awhile and looks like I maybe going back to get my new IQ back but right now I have been using the Sony 850. Frankly the biggest reason I have is not so much for shooting something easier which it does BUT it has more to do with using my Phase system so much and wearing it down and lets be honest i am a little nervous about it getting stolen or damaged. Reason being is sometimes when on a gig my bag may not be anywhere near me and under a table or something like that while I am shooting and someone could walk off with the rest of my gear. I have really no issue losing a couple Sony lenses or maybe better said it is a 5k investment over a 25k investment in your bag with some risks shooting. I know many don't have this issue but for me it is a concern sometimes and also on some gigs I really don't care so much about the best IQ for the job since it maybe web stuff and so on. But these are all considerations one has to take into account. I could easily go right back to shooting the Phase with sensor plus and really not miss a beat over the versatility over the 35mm cam.
Now I know some may say they can't do that as they need the 35mm for some things what a Phase sensor plus can't do and totally understand that comment since it would be hard for some things. But in my mind in all honesty I could sell the Sony tomorrow and not miss a beat going back to Phase only. I did the other night shooting handheld with studio lights shooting some fashion stuff. With low modeling lights and difficult focusing for the cam I had a huge keeper rate and no Sony or Nikon/Canon would have beat that rate by much if any at all and I shot full res the whole time. No maybe not everyone could do as well as me with going MF only but I will say some of these limitations folks put on MF without even trying to shoot them in these situations. Hate to say it since I am a partner in this forum but don't believe everything you read as too we can't do this or that, most of that comes from non MF shooters or lazy shooters that have not REALLY tried hard to get it done. One reason I bought the P40+ was for sensor plus and these situations and believe me even at 10 mpx sensor plus it acts like a 15 mpx cam at the end of the IQ chain. BTW this is a very revealing thread on sensor plus and worth a read http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13379
Guy Wrote--->"Now having said all that let me get into my thinking with MF and Sensor Plus and here this solved a big issue with not buying a DSLR 35mm as it gets you higher ISO and i do mean higher as ISO 1600 is deadly good and you do get a little speed boost as well in shooting and I used this setup a lot shooting runway, PR stuff and a lot of stuff one would normally use there 35mm system on and it does work very well. I got away with this for quite awhile and looks like I maybe going back to get my new IQ back but right now I have been using the Sony 850. Frankly the biggest reason I have is not so much for shooting something easier which it does BUT it has more to do with using my Phase system so much and wearing it down and lets be honest i am a little nervous about it getting stolen or damaged. Reason being is sometimes when on a gig my bag may not be anywhere near me and under a table or something like that while I am shooting and someone could walk off with the rest of my gear. I have really no issue losing a couple Sony lenses or maybe better said it is a 5k investment over a 25k investment in your bag with some risks shooting. I know many don't have this issue but for me it is a concern sometimes and also on some gigs I really don't care so much about the best IQ for the job since it maybe web stuff and so on. But these are all considerations one has to take into account. I could easily go right back to shooting the Phase with sensor plus and really not miss a beat over the versatility over the 35mm cam."<<<
Guy, Interesting post of yours and I can certainly identify with a lot of it. Earlier today I had a shoot at a large venue (major dance and orchestral production) which I normally shoot with 35mm DSLR's. I was seriously considering putting the MFD through its paces and felt for certain it could supplant the 35mm DLSR for part of the production and would actually have been an advantage for a some of the dance/song numbers. This would be especially true for the entire stage finale, which would have been shot from the back of the venue. Unfortunately with my having to leave much of the equipment in one shooting location (coming back to change lenses etc.) while I shoot from a great variety of vantage points, I felt leaving much of the MFD out in the open (with a large crowd nearby), would have been too much of a risk and loss. The video/TV/sound board guys are close by...but they have too much of their own work to focus on. There are also ways to address this issue to a degree, but until I implement this (possibly next time), I chose to stick with the 35mm DSLR,. From a technical standpoint, I would love to replace some or most of it (the 35mm DSLR) with the MFD system, eventually. So your words rang true...all too true. The loss of parts of the 35mm DSLR system would have been unfortunate (hasn't happened yet)...but it's a more manageable situation as opposed to loosing some of the MFD.
Dave (D&A)
Guy, Interesting post of yours and I can certainly identify with a lot of it. Earlier today I had a shoot at a large venue (major dance and orchestral production) which I normally shoot with 35mm DSLR's. I was seriously considering putting the MFD through its paces and felt for certain it could supplant the 35mm DLSR for part of the production and would actually have been an advantage for a some of the dance/song numbers. This would be especially true for the entire stage finale, which would have been shot from the back of the venue. Unfortunately with my having to leave much of the equipment in one shooting location (coming back to change lenses etc.) while I shoot from a great variety of vantage points, I felt leaving much of the MFD out in the open (with a large crowd nearby), would have been too much of a risk and loss. The video/TV/sound board guys are close by...but they have too much of their own work to focus on. There are also ways to address this issue to a degree, but until I implement this (possibly next time), I chose to stick with the 35mm DSLR,. From a technical standpoint, I would love to replace some or most of it (the 35mm DSLR) with the MFD system, eventually. So your words rang true...all too true. The loss of parts of the 35mm DSLR system would have been unfortunate (hasn't happened yet)...but it's a more manageable situation as opposed to loosing some of the MFD.
Dave (D&A)
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
One thing I've learned as a Phase One shooter, and this will no doubt get me banned from the Phase One fan club, is that they make great digital backs but their (and Mamiya) camera bodies are pretty darned unreliable. Unreliable enough that I couldn't stick with just the MF DSLR outfit for everything I want to shoot.
On the recent GetDPI workshop there were seven 645DF shooters. At least three of us had random camera system lock ups with the bodies that needed power off, battery out, back power off and reset to continue. These happened at the most inopportune times in the field. One other shooter had a complete camera system failure that could only be resolved by shipping in a replacement camera body. in my view that's not impressive as far as a reliability sampling is concerned. There were no back failures or shenanigans which is a testament to Phase One's core competency.
So, for me, the great complements to medium format digital are still my M9 and Nikon DSLR outfits. I seriously contemplated moving out of the Nikon system and investing further in my Phase One DSLR outfit but for now the Phase One system lacks reliability - for me at least. I honestly couldn't take along the Phase One system and know that it absolutely positively wouldn't hang up on me - something that my Nikon DSLRs have never done on me since I started shooting digitally from the days of the D1 all the way through to the D3x & D3s today.
Btw, this isn't my first rodeo with Mamiya & digital backs - I used to shoot with the AFD / AFD II & Kodak 645M about 6-7 years ago and went back to Nikon back then after the frustration of that system randomly greeting me with a clunk and DB error indications at just when I didn't need it to. Not much changed between then and now for me ...
So for me, the current experience with medium format digital is that the backs are bullet proof and work fabulously. Both my P40+ and Leaf Aptus 65 have never missed a beat and produce images limited only by my abilities. My mechanically beautiful and reliable Alpa & lenses has been utterly dependable with both MFDBs. My 645DF very nearly ended up being tossed into the Grand Canyon after the 3rd or 4th battery out reset on a couple of cold mornings ...
So, Leica S2 & Hasselblad users who post here about their MF camera woes ... You're not alone after all.
(btw, I really really would like to consolidate just to the Phase One system as there is a lot to like with the automation and glass.)
On the recent GetDPI workshop there were seven 645DF shooters. At least three of us had random camera system lock ups with the bodies that needed power off, battery out, back power off and reset to continue. These happened at the most inopportune times in the field. One other shooter had a complete camera system failure that could only be resolved by shipping in a replacement camera body. in my view that's not impressive as far as a reliability sampling is concerned. There were no back failures or shenanigans which is a testament to Phase One's core competency.
So, for me, the great complements to medium format digital are still my M9 and Nikon DSLR outfits. I seriously contemplated moving out of the Nikon system and investing further in my Phase One DSLR outfit but for now the Phase One system lacks reliability - for me at least. I honestly couldn't take along the Phase One system and know that it absolutely positively wouldn't hang up on me - something that my Nikon DSLRs have never done on me since I started shooting digitally from the days of the D1 all the way through to the D3x & D3s today.
Btw, this isn't my first rodeo with Mamiya & digital backs - I used to shoot with the AFD / AFD II & Kodak 645M about 6-7 years ago and went back to Nikon back then after the frustration of that system randomly greeting me with a clunk and DB error indications at just when I didn't need it to. Not much changed between then and now for me ...
So for me, the current experience with medium format digital is that the backs are bullet proof and work fabulously. Both my P40+ and Leaf Aptus 65 have never missed a beat and produce images limited only by my abilities. My mechanically beautiful and reliable Alpa & lenses has been utterly dependable with both MFDBs. My 645DF very nearly ended up being tossed into the Grand Canyon after the 3rd or 4th battery out reset on a couple of cold mornings ...
So, Leica S2 & Hasselblad users who post here about their MF camera woes ... You're not alone after all.
(btw, I really really would like to consolidate just to the Phase One system as there is a lot to like with the automation and glass.)
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
No Graham your still in the fan club. LOL If there is one
But Graham is correct we had one persons DF have a complete failure. I actually have it sitting here for him ready to ship out. But sometimes with the bitter cold a lot of flair ups are happening with batteries and bodies at least on our last workshop 2 weeks ago. Funny thing is Jack and I our camera's worked fine except for me hitting the focus switch. But a few had to do what Graham described. Backs and lenses never hardly ever a issue. But the body needs a refresh and one that is not film based anymore. Hopefully soon. As always one should have some backup. Actually our bad that we did not have one on site, lesson learned.
But Graham is correct we had one persons DF have a complete failure. I actually have it sitting here for him ready to ship out. But sometimes with the bitter cold a lot of flair ups are happening with batteries and bodies at least on our last workshop 2 weeks ago. Funny thing is Jack and I our camera's worked fine except for me hitting the focus switch. But a few had to do what Graham described. Backs and lenses never hardly ever a issue. But the body needs a refresh and one that is not film based anymore. Hopefully soon. As always one should have some backup. Actually our bad that we did not have one on site, lesson learned.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Dave this is exactly why I bought the Sony. I did a couple of gigs that where coming up that I did not want to risk my larger investment. Also not just shooting but hotel rooms without safes and one for me was a cruise ship. So yes the Phase setup would have worked just as easily ( maybe some sore arms ) but the risk factor was there.
Graham Wrote--->>>"something that my Nikon DSLRs have never done on me since I started shooting digitally from the days of the D1 all the way through to the D3x & D3s today."<<<
Yes, that's what amazes me too (and was just discussing this the other day with someone else)...from the very first Nikon D1 to the present day D3x & D3s, those cameras have never once locked up or failed on me in any set of conditions. You have to give credit where credit is due. Those cameras may not always have all the attributes one is looking for...but they are as reliable as all heck. Now if we are discussing the strange NTSC color space (video?) that the original D1 used to achieve all those lovely magenta skin tones...thats another issue....LOL!
Recently I've been putting the Pentax 645D through its paces and by virtue that it's a fully intergraded MFD...that may help in eliminating some of the issues one might see with a seperate camera/back set-up. Time will tell of course. This is aside from the apparently slow processor and other assorted issues the Pentax 645D system might have.
Dave (D&A)
Yes, that's what amazes me too (and was just discussing this the other day with someone else)...from the very first Nikon D1 to the present day D3x & D3s, those cameras have never once locked up or failed on me in any set of conditions. You have to give credit where credit is due. Those cameras may not always have all the attributes one is looking for...but they are as reliable as all heck. Now if we are discussing the strange NTSC color space (video?) that the original D1 used to achieve all those lovely magenta skin tones...thats another issue....LOL!
Recently I've been putting the Pentax 645D through its paces and by virtue that it's a fully intergraded MFD...that may help in eliminating some of the issues one might see with a seperate camera/back set-up. Time will tell of course. This is aside from the apparently slow processor and other assorted issues the Pentax 645D system might have.
Dave (D&A)
Ebe
New member
For cold weather and Mamiya I
found this to solve the above
'frustration of that system randomly
greeting with a clunk and DB error.'
Mamiya - External Battery Case PE401
Link: http://www.mamiya-usa.com/645afd-ii...-accessories-external-battery-case-pe401.html
found this to solve the above
'frustration of that system randomly
greeting with a clunk and DB error.'
Mamiya - External Battery Case PE401
Link: http://www.mamiya-usa.com/645afd-ii...-accessories-external-battery-case-pe401.html
BradleyGibson
New member
While we're on the topic of reliability and medium format systems, for Hy6/AFi shooters out there, you may have noticed that on occasion your camera reboots intermittently.
This happened a fair bit with my Sinar Hy6/e75LV and was disturbing enough to be one of the reasons I sold it. The camera would quietly reboot, and come back with the shutter speed and aperture settings that were last saved when it was last properly powered off. So if I'd moved to a new environment and was shooting away, unless I was chimping (which was too slow for my liking with that back) I would be shooting a sequence of horribly over or under exposed images--just a terrible situation.
I didn't know this at the time, but apparently the cause of the mystery reboots is a slight incompatibility with some pre-AFD lenses. If you're experiencing this, contact DHW--I've been told that the lens can be fixed so this issue does not occur.
Beyond that, the system (now an AFi) has been so reliable for me that I'm preparing for some winter wildlife photography in Japan next month and am comfortable not bringing a backup (limited weight & space). I will report back on any reliability issues related to weather, cold, or otherwise.
This happened a fair bit with my Sinar Hy6/e75LV and was disturbing enough to be one of the reasons I sold it. The camera would quietly reboot, and come back with the shutter speed and aperture settings that were last saved when it was last properly powered off. So if I'd moved to a new environment and was shooting away, unless I was chimping (which was too slow for my liking with that back) I would be shooting a sequence of horribly over or under exposed images--just a terrible situation.
I didn't know this at the time, but apparently the cause of the mystery reboots is a slight incompatibility with some pre-AFD lenses. If you're experiencing this, contact DHW--I've been told that the lens can be fixed so this issue does not occur.
Beyond that, the system (now an AFi) has been so reliable for me that I'm preparing for some winter wildlife photography in Japan next month and am comfortable not bringing a backup (limited weight & space). I will report back on any reliability issues related to weather, cold, or otherwise.
Sorry David, I just saw this question. I'm assuming that you are talking about use of Phocus when tethered ... right?
If not ... when working from a CF card and card reader, the images all come up in the Phocus browser for editing out bad shots, but aren't loaded into Phocus yet. Just like Lightroom, you have to Import them before you can use the Viewer to adjust each image.
If tethered ... not sure how you are set up in Phocus. That choice is made upon opening Phocus in the initial selection window. My set up is customized and I just hit "Skip" and it loads my custom set-up.
I have a folder on my desktop titled H Scratch Pad. It is the folder I shoot images to. I use a dual screen set up with one 30" monitor hosting the Browser, and the other one is the full screen Viewer which is opened by selecting it in the top menu > Window > Viewer in separate window. Also in the top menu go to >View > Show new captures in Viewer ... so as you shoot the last shot appears in the Viewer window.
-Marc
I just took the time to re-read this entire thread. Glad it was made a "sticky" :thumbup:
While not exactly a MFD newbie, in many ways you never lose that title with MFD ... there is ALWAYS something to learn ... or occasionally re-learn. Been shooting MF for about 40 years, moved from analog film to scanned film, then to MFD with a Hasselblad 500 camera and the original 16 meg, 12 bit Kodak ProBack which revolutionized mobile MFD shooting ... sort of (it was a lot of stuff, and restricted to ISO 100). But as "old" as that rig now seems ...
We all have to remember that MFD as we know it, is itself a relative "Newbie".
My personal trek has seen countless MFD iterations that tracked with new technological developments ... and a few things become apparent with that experience that can be valuable to other newbies:
Impatience is often rewarded with malfunctions, frustration, and expensive gear swapping ... often resulting in "the carpenter blaming the hammer".
Before you do anything, do your homework ... which can take weeks and weeks, even months and months ... in the case of my last foray into MFD land it took over a year. "Immediate Need Gratification" is just another term for "Impatient" ... (see above).
I've learned that many folks asking questions in angry frustration never bothered to FIRST read the manual. Been there, done that myself. After a heavy dose of blaming the hammer, you DO eventually learn
You will also eventually learn that this gear is more akin to your computer than that great Nikon F or Hassey V you once used. If something doesn't work, indiscriminate pressing of buttons, etc. can turn a simple one car derailment into an all day train wreak ... and the gear gets to go on an expensive vacation to Europe instead of you going
Your dealer is your best friend. It is the one person you should be totally honest with if you screw up. Immediately write down what exactly happened in sequence and call him/her the minute something is amiss, and please don't try to operate on the patient yourself (see above).
Lots of folks do not even know the full capability of the gear they bought.. and long for features or functions they already have ... read the freaking manual, and take your time doing it to fully grasp what you already have in hand. Plus, buying from big box stores robs you of "features" expertise you get with a dedicated re-seller. One of the most important areas of discovery is the proprietary dedicated software ... where many of the "systems" features are realized ... another area of "Impatience" that defies the craftsmanship inherent in these tools.
If you are heavily dependent on this gear, man-up and buy the hot swap warranty. Otherwise don't whine about the gear being gone for what seems a lifetime.
I also agree with Guy in that this gear can do more than most give it credit for. If using it for other work, apply the same standards you'd apply to smaller formats ... a snap-shot of the kids shouldn't be blown up to 40X60 proportions and pixel peeped like with a studied landscape image done on a tripod using a cable release ... it's apples-to-apples, not apples-to-watermelons.
Lastly realize your own limitations and standards, and that they do not apply universally to everyone. Some can hand hold this gear and get amazing results and some cannot. Razor sharp from toe-tip to China isn't everyone's goal. etc., etc., etc.
-Marc
While not exactly a MFD newbie, in many ways you never lose that title with MFD ... there is ALWAYS something to learn ... or occasionally re-learn. Been shooting MF for about 40 years, moved from analog film to scanned film, then to MFD with a Hasselblad 500 camera and the original 16 meg, 12 bit Kodak ProBack which revolutionized mobile MFD shooting ... sort of (it was a lot of stuff, and restricted to ISO 100). But as "old" as that rig now seems ...
We all have to remember that MFD as we know it, is itself a relative "Newbie".
My personal trek has seen countless MFD iterations that tracked with new technological developments ... and a few things become apparent with that experience that can be valuable to other newbies:
Impatience is often rewarded with malfunctions, frustration, and expensive gear swapping ... often resulting in "the carpenter blaming the hammer".
Before you do anything, do your homework ... which can take weeks and weeks, even months and months ... in the case of my last foray into MFD land it took over a year. "Immediate Need Gratification" is just another term for "Impatient" ... (see above).
I've learned that many folks asking questions in angry frustration never bothered to FIRST read the manual. Been there, done that myself. After a heavy dose of blaming the hammer, you DO eventually learn
You will also eventually learn that this gear is more akin to your computer than that great Nikon F or Hassey V you once used. If something doesn't work, indiscriminate pressing of buttons, etc. can turn a simple one car derailment into an all day train wreak ... and the gear gets to go on an expensive vacation to Europe instead of you going
Your dealer is your best friend. It is the one person you should be totally honest with if you screw up. Immediately write down what exactly happened in sequence and call him/her the minute something is amiss, and please don't try to operate on the patient yourself (see above).
Lots of folks do not even know the full capability of the gear they bought.. and long for features or functions they already have ... read the freaking manual, and take your time doing it to fully grasp what you already have in hand. Plus, buying from big box stores robs you of "features" expertise you get with a dedicated re-seller. One of the most important areas of discovery is the proprietary dedicated software ... where many of the "systems" features are realized ... another area of "Impatience" that defies the craftsmanship inherent in these tools.
If you are heavily dependent on this gear, man-up and buy the hot swap warranty. Otherwise don't whine about the gear being gone for what seems a lifetime.
I also agree with Guy in that this gear can do more than most give it credit for. If using it for other work, apply the same standards you'd apply to smaller formats ... a snap-shot of the kids shouldn't be blown up to 40X60 proportions and pixel peeped like with a studied landscape image done on a tripod using a cable release ... it's apples-to-apples, not apples-to-watermelons.
Lastly realize your own limitations and standards, and that they do not apply universally to everyone. Some can hand hold this gear and get amazing results and some cannot. Razor sharp from toe-tip to China isn't everyone's goal. etc., etc., etc.
-Marc
Frits
Member
Well, here I am a few months after getting my H1 / P25+ (and this after almost a year with a 500 C/M / P21).
Up first: I am totally in love with MF and the IQ is something to behold. I like to print big and those who keep saying that the new generation DSLR's (à la Nikon, Canon, Sony etc.) produce the same IQ just have not shot MF. I get a thrill out of each time I shoot with it.
That said....
Let me be very frank: I am not entirely sure whether I did the right thing going MF (I have no professional need for it, just the desire of a spoiled advanced amateur).
Coming off a Nikon DSLR system (which I still have), I must say that I miss its portability at times. MOST times I will be fine with MF and I know I will love it but I somewhat fear that the odd time that I would appreciate less bulky gear will eventually get to me.
Maybe getting a D3x to replace my D700 would have been the better thing to do, at this time I HONESTLY don't know...
I love my MF gear to death. I know the resolution of a D3x would be good enough for me, although I would take a hit in other aspects of IQ (especially in DR, which is sooo sweet and the beauty of the overall shallower DOF).
The next few months will tell whether I will stick with MF (I want to!) or whether I will let it go in favor of a D3x (my only other option, as I am quite invested in Nikon gear and like it a lot).
Up first: I am totally in love with MF and the IQ is something to behold. I like to print big and those who keep saying that the new generation DSLR's (à la Nikon, Canon, Sony etc.) produce the same IQ just have not shot MF. I get a thrill out of each time I shoot with it.
That said....
Let me be very frank: I am not entirely sure whether I did the right thing going MF (I have no professional need for it, just the desire of a spoiled advanced amateur).
Coming off a Nikon DSLR system (which I still have), I must say that I miss its portability at times. MOST times I will be fine with MF and I know I will love it but I somewhat fear that the odd time that I would appreciate less bulky gear will eventually get to me.
Maybe getting a D3x to replace my D700 would have been the better thing to do, at this time I HONESTLY don't know...
I love my MF gear to death. I know the resolution of a D3x would be good enough for me, although I would take a hit in other aspects of IQ (especially in DR, which is sooo sweet and the beauty of the overall shallower DOF).
The next few months will tell whether I will stick with MF (I want to!) or whether I will let it go in favor of a D3x (my only other option, as I am quite invested in Nikon gear and like it a lot).
Last edited:
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I'm going to add on one very important fact of life with MF. Folks this is real work, like strapping on your tool belt and go banging some nails. This is not pick up the camera and let it do your mindless thinking when you shoot where the camera does it all for you. Far from it although many things are very good like AF and metering and such but think of it this way take a 8x10 view camera and blend it with a 35mm Nikon. You will get some automation but you better be prepared to work at getting images and putting your mind to work. Some may say it is slower working, I kind of don't like that description myself. I would prefer if folks said they are out working deliberate images.
The reality is this you are thinking more and working to get the best you can from it's abilities. This takes some time and if you get frustrated than just give it more time as MF can take a couple months to really get the hang of working differently but a lot smarter. I love it and I love the challenge.
The reality is this you are thinking more and working to get the best you can from it's abilities. This takes some time and if you get frustrated than just give it more time as MF can take a couple months to really get the hang of working differently but a lot smarter. I love it and I love the challenge.