MF digital newbies, so what have you learned

[Hikari]

Well, in my career, I have not always had the luxury of having the cash or time because, at a particular moment, I did not have the "right" gear. That never prevented me from being successful. I have also found that with specialized equipment, you are going to have to meet the gear halfway--no piece of equipment is perfect, and the more unusual, the more quirks.

Naturally, there are very specialized form of photography that are very gear dependent--I can't get from a macro lens what a compound microscope can give me. But the difference in ergonomics between a Hasselblad and Mamiya or a Linhof and Alpa is not going to prevent me from doing the same work no matter what annoying foibles those models may have. I have even used a Linhof to do the work more suited to a Mamiya. While I agree that having the "perfect" gear (very subjective) is ideal, I can't really bring myself to blame the equipment if I cannot do my job--that would be my failure in skill, experience, or imagination.

Naturally, it brings up the related question--what is the right gear? What if I am going to be halfway up Tuckerman Ravine on Saturday at 10:34am. What should I have? I cannot be ready for every possible event. Nor could I get a bag that would let me carry all that stuff. But I would do what I always do, shoot with what I have. My skill will be the determining factor on whether I can make a successful image or not.

 

[Hikari]

Hey Hikari... don't let that single comment sully your image of this forum. Hang around and you'll find it's one of the nicest, most easy going places on the net.

Comments like that aren't tolerated long around here.

Thanks.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No question it is about skill and agree not much i can't shoot with anything but it does help when things feel good in your hand and you not fighting a gear battle in the field. Obviously as Pros we get paid to come home with the goods , I think we all can see we will do that with confidence but it is a freer environment to work in when you are comfortable with that gear. I shot stuff i absolute hate gear wise and stuff I love but just would not do everything I need Leica M8 for instance. We will also find those workarounds but some gear is very uncomfortable to work with also and finding what fits you well is important I believe especially for the hobbyist since they have enough on there plate to get images.

 

[dchew]

Hikari,
I don't think it is so much about "blaming the equipment" as it is enjoying the process more vs. less because of how a system works for or against me.

Most people say it is all about the image. Not for me. My enjoyment comes from the process of photographing in the field. As Dewitt Jones says, "Noticing, appreciating, celebrating" the outdoors. Sure I love coming away with a good image once in a while.

But if a camera system stays out of the way when I want it to and gets in the way when I want it to, then I'm a happier camper. And I believe my images are better.

Dave

 

[Hikari]

Guy, as someone posting on a medium-format digital photography format, I would hardly argue the gear is irrelevant. But the "right" gear thing has one big problem for me--right for whom? I have quite a bit of experience, but I still own (collected) four tripods and seven camera bags. I think someone starting out has a lot of experience to collect before he or she can really judge what is "right." And I think implying that you need the "right" gear to get the "perfect" shot is really a barrier--it can lead to being a shopper rather than a photographer. I have a lot of bags collecting dust as testament of how hard it is to find the "right" stuff. I certainly appreciate the nuanced insight/feeling to gear that works well for me.

As this thread is for folks entering medium-format digital, I think it is important to say the fundamentals of photography have not changed and the greatest asset to good results is the photographer. Go out and take pictures and gain experience, along the way you can tweak your approach and equipment. But without the experience, it is really hard to judge what is the "right" gear.

So folks, run out and buy that $75,000 Phase One system. If you are falling, dive.

 

[Hikari]

Hikari,
I don't think it is so much about "blaming the equipment" as it is enjoying the process more vs. less because of how a system works for or against me.

You will get no argument from me. But I am not really talking about the nuanced relationship with the equipment--no one really gets into medium-format digital because it is the easiest way to work.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, as someone posting on a medium-format digital photography format, I would hardly argue the gear is irrelevant. But the "right" gear thing has one big problem for me--right for whom? I have quite a bit of experience, but I still own (collected) four tripods and seven camera bags. I think someone starting out has a lot of experience to collect before he or she can really judge what is "right." And I think implying that you need the "right" gear to get the "perfect" shot is really a barrier--it can lead to being a shopper rather than a photographer. I have a lot of bags collecting dust as testament of how hard it is to find the "right" stuff. I certainly appreciate the nuanced insight/feeling to gear that works well for me.

As this thread is for folks entering medium-format digital, I think it is important to say the fundamentals of photography have not changed and the greatest asset to good results is the photographer. Go out and take pictures and gain experience, along the way you can tweak your approach and equipment. But without the experience, it is really hard to judge what is the "right" gear.

So folks, run out and buy that $75,000 Phase One system. If you are falling, dive.

I agree and good points also. Bags are buy them and try them which will certainly create a collection for sure. Obviously on the hard gear I strongly encourage go try them before buying them especially whole systems with back and lenses . Folks need to get a feel for them and see if it fits there style.

 

[stephengilbert]

It usually takes more than 16 posts to develop an attitude. Congratulations.

 

[Bob]

:ROTFL:

It usually takes more than 16 posts to develop an attitude. Congratulations.

:ROTFL:

Be nice, Stephen

 

[dick]

Over the past four or five years, I've switched digital medium format systems *seven* times. I've basically flushed a not-so-small fortune down the toilet getting to the right system for me. The upshot of that experience?

Using the right gear for the right job.

I am, fortunately, on my first Digital MF system... my first DMF camera if you do not count the planned upgrade.

It is an MFDSLR system, which I could expand to include a back more suited for ambient hand-held, or a multi-shot back for use with the Sinar kit I have been accumulating from eBay for several years.

No kit can be ideal for everything, but I aim to accumulate versatile kit.

... now where can I get a Sinar P3 lensboard compatible lightweight view camera?

 

[PeterA]

People collect/buy / sell cameras and lenses for all sorts of reasons. They are fetish objects for some, working tools for others and an experiential project for everyone.

all the platitudes about it isnt the camera /lens it is the photographer are at true and at the same time irrelevant.

if you want to look in the mirror - go visit some high end hi-fi forums - that scene is scary - I visited a Lin dealership on the weekend and the guy (straight faced ) tried to sell me on a two speaker 10 monoblock system - for a lazy $400,000 ..before the incidentals..like transport/DAC/turntable/NAS system/cables/Power supplies etc etc..

I have said it before - cameras are cheap thrills compared to a lot of hobbies. I have friends who think my camera hobby is silly - but own boats - big boats ..shall we start talking boats?? At least with a camera you get to make a happy snap occassionally!

:ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[GrahamWelland]

I agree Brad , one very important part of gear is it really needs to be comfortable within yourself or your just fighting a endless battle. Sure photography is no question about the space between your ears but if you cloud that space with something not feeling right than it just simply gets in the way. Bags are gear and having a comfortable /workable bag may mean a lot in the shooting. Just like a grip that may not feel good as you are fighting it. Everything just needs to work and work within yourself so when you finally do put the eyecup to your eye you can focus on what is in front of you not some piece of gear that is just bugging the crap out of you. I have been through more systems than I can count much less remember but in the end it has to feel good first.

Amen to that!! I couldn't express it any simpler or clearer myself. It's not the gear per se that makes shooting better, but equipment that gets in the way of the creative process definitely is a factor that can drive you to distraction.

Like a few others here, I'm lucky enough to only shoot for my own satisfaction and not have the constraints of making a living doing it. That changes your perspective of equipment and the act of shooting vs having to get the shot with whatever you have to hand.

With respect to MF digital, I find that that the backs are at a much higher level of functionality and capability than the bodies and other associated componentry. The fact of the matter is that sloppy technique is also viciously punished and you simply have to work harder to get the results - but, oh what results when everything comes together. :thumbs:

It usually takes more than 16 posts to develop an attitude. Congratulations.

:ROTFL: I confess that you almost got my iPad sprayed with coffee with this one

I have said it before - cameras are cheap thrills compared to a lot of hobbies. I have friends who think my camera hobby is silly - but own boats - big boats ..shall we start talking boats?? At least with a camera you get to make a happy snap occassionally!

:ROTFL::ROTFL:

Ditto. I've been through the automobile equivalent with names beginning with F/P/L/J etc and can heartily agree that shooting MF digital is relatively inexpensive by comparison and getting you out into the field shooting is much better for you too.

 

[dick]

Re-draft...

IMHO, photography is about being in the right place at the right time with the right kit.

Knowing, technically, how to get the best out of/use the kit you have with you helps.

Knowing what is worth photographing, and how to create a good picture maybe more art than photography.

How ever gifted you are, you cannot go out without a camera, visualize a picture and find it on your hard drive when you get home! (Painters have and advantage over photographers here.)



If you have walked for half a day to get to the top of a mountain, and you do not have the ideal ¿15kg? MFD kit with you, you might be able to pan-and-stitch with a lightweight system, down res by a factor of 9 and get an acceptable picture.

I have three tripods, I bought the Gitzo carbon-fibre after carrying the 10 kg Manfrotto (and a P2) up a Welsh hill on a workshop. I also have a Manfrotto Agnoscope, which weighs about 40Kg and extends to 10m!

 

[cunim]

Some very wise comments here. For my part, I see photography much like driving a car. Is it about the destination or the drive? If I were a pro it would be all about beating the competition, getting to the destination (picture), and getting paid for it. The car or camera is just a tool that I need to be completely comfortable with. As a hobbyist on a nice afternoon, its about using a fine machine on a tricky course. The tool and learning how to get the best out of it is a big part of the enjoyment.

To extend the analogy beyond comfort, most detinations and photos are pretty much the same. I usually delete my photos unless they show me something I have learned or some fresh interpretation. Sadly, precious few fresh and interesting shots have come from my hands but I still love the journey.

 

[tetsrfun]

Some very wise comments here. For my part, I see photography much like driving a car. Is it about the destination or the drive? If I were a pro it would be all about beating the competition, getting to the destination (picture), and getting paid for it. The car or camera is just a tool that I need to be completely comfortable with. As a hobbyist on a nice afternoon, its about using a fine machine on a tricky course. The tool and learning how to get the best out of it is a big part of the enjoyment.

To extend the analogy beyond comfort, most detinations and photos are pretty much the same. I usually delete my photos unless they show me something I have learned or some fresh interpretation. Sadly, precious few fresh and interesting shots have come from my hands but I still love the journey.

Very good description of hobbyist. As a person who enjoys two wheels, four wheels, and photography tools and having no talent for either competitive driving or photography, I understand the concept of the "drive'.

STEVE

 

[PeterA]

Some very wise comments here. For my part, I see photography much like driving a car. Is it about the destination or the drive? If I were a pro it would be all about beating the competition, getting to the destination (picture), and getting paid for it. The car or camera is just a tool that I need to be completely comfortable with. As a hobbyist on a nice afternoon, its about using a fine machine on a tricky course. The tool and learning how to get the best out of it is a big part of the enjoyment.

To extend the analogy beyond comfort, most detinations and photos are pretty much the same. I usually delete my photos unless they show me something I have learned or some fresh interpretation. Sadly, precious few fresh and interesting shots have come from my hands but I still love the journey.

You have summarised how I approach photography and what it means to me as well as the typical result - perfectly.

Perhaps I am an extreme eccentric - but I really couldn't care less if I never print another shot I make. What I like doing is looking through a viewfinder and framing a slice of time and place. Afterwards I look at this. Sometimes I play with the results. Sometimes I save them - rarely do I print or even care to show.

 

[BradleyGibson]

Guy, as someone posting on a medium-format digital photography format, I would hardly argue the gear is irrelevant. But the "right" gear thing has one big problem for me--right for whom?

It has to be right for you, of course. Because that is (obviously) subjective, it really isn't quantifiable in anything but general terms, at least until we being discussing a particular individual's specific needs.

 

[dick]

MF kit..

It has to be right for you, of course. Because that is (obviously) subjective, it really isn't quantifiable in anything but general terms, at least until we being discussing a particular individual's specific needs.

We cannot all afford several digibacks, but an individual might have a 60/80Mpx back for hand-held studio flash, a 50Mpx MS back for static studio and architecture and a 40Mpx back for hand-held ambient - I think that there is not a single back that will do all these jobs well. One might use all these backs on a tech camera as well as MFDSLR, but the Sinar 86H is not good for non-retro 47XL lenses, due to the multi-microprisms.

 

[David Schneider]

As has been pointed out, dof is dramatically reduced and auto focus isn't the best. In studio yesterday I had a high school guy dancer doing some jumps and break dance moves. Auto focus wasn't reliable so I did a manual pre-focus on a spot and dancer tried to have peak action at the spot. Obviously, that didn't always happen and when I looked at some of the images, they seemed a tad soft compared to those where focus was spot on. Then I realized that many of those that were a tad soft actually looked just the same as if I had taken them with my Canon and it focused on him perfectly.

I also hadn't realized how much longer the shutter delay is compared to my Canon's. It took me awhile to get the timing down to nail the jumps. And certainly not as easy or predictable as a reasonably responsive dslr.

 

[docmoore]

As has been pointed out, dof is dramatically reduced and auto focus isn't the best. In studio yesterday I had a high school guy dancer doing some jumps and break dance moves. Auto focus wasn't reliable so I did a manual pre-focus on a spot and dancer tried to have peak action at the spot. Obviously, that didn't always happen and when I looked at some of the images, they seemed a tad soft compared to those where focus was spot on. Then I realized that many of those that were a tad soft actually looked just the same as if I had taken them with my Canon and it focused on him perfectly.

I also hadn't realized how much longer the shutter delay is compared to my Canon's. It took me awhile to get the timing down to nail the jumps. And certainly not as easy or predictable as a reasonably responsive dslr.

David,

I wonder if short duration strobe would freeze the action and allow you a better capture rate...combined with a more generous DOF at smaller aperature.

Bob