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MF digital newbies, so what have you learned

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thought this would be a interesting discussion as almost daily we have folks jumping in to the MF world and a lot of us existing users here try and help guide folks along this path. BTW we enjoy a plentiful amount of members that help folks make decisions here and I think it would be nice to hear from new buyers what they have learned from others and how they applied it to there purchases. But also it would be nice to hear after all the decisions are made and you have it in your hands what are your thoughts now. Surprised , relived, excited or going back to 35mm. Okay the floor is open and hopefully we can gain some knowledge from the new users on there thoughts.

Let it rip folks. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
The biggest adjustment for me has been adaptation to the more narrow depth of field and need for higher shutter speeds (relative to 35mm) to achieve critical sharpness due to the higher resolution. That is a double whammy because as you stop down to gain depth of field you loose shutter speed. Add in the generally poorer high ISO performance of digital MF and you have a challenge. I like it though, because it forces me to pay more attention to what I and doing.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention - the image quality is intoxicating. The only problem with that is that now I find myself turning into an IQ snob whether I really need the IQ/resolution or not. As a result, I don't use my other cameras unless i need their niche features such as long telephoto, speed, (dSLR) or small compact size (X1).
 

Geoff

Well-known member
The overall community is great - gives a good broad perspective and is vastly supportive. Without it, I'd never have made "the jump".

Generally, the advice is to slow down, think more about what you want and what you are doing. And that is good advice. Can one make the call that MF digital is a bit like a hand-held 4x5 camera: intoxicating results when you get it right, yet brings its own requirements to the table. THat analogy might not work for other folks (its fraught with mixed messages), but if you've shot 4x5 film on a tripod vs. faster and easier rigs, you may remember how you had to really step back, take your time, think to get it right. Once done, it provides tremendous results.

One thing on the forum: some folks are getting MFDB to work as more general cameras. how do you deal with camera movement? Do you lose shots, and just shoot enough to find one that is good - or is your technique just really disciplined?
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I have learned that loosing $10k a year in equipment value is a normal thing.
Is it?
Frankly in the beginning I had a Mamiya ZD integrated camera and some used Mamiya lenses. As much as I like my Hy6 and Sinar back I sometimes wonder if I should not just have stayed with the Mamiya ZD for 1/5th of the money and have accepted the higher ISO noise and the smaller display.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The overall community is great - gives a good broad perspective and is vastly supportive. Without it, I'd never have made "the jump".

Generally, the advice is to slow down, think more about what you want and what you are doing. And that is good advice. Can one make the call that MF digital is a bit like a hand-held 4x5 camera: intoxicating results when you get it right, yet brings its own requirements to the table. THat analogy might not work for other folks (its fraught with mixed messages), but if you've shot 4x5 film on a tripod vs. faster and easier rigs, you may remember how you had to really step back, take your time, think to get it right. Once done, it provides tremendous results.

One thing on the forum: some folks are getting MFDB to work as more general cameras. how do you deal with camera movement? Do you lose shots, and just shoot enough to find one that is good - or is your technique just really disciplined?
AS most know I use mine for PR work and many jobs that a 35mm would most likely be easier to work with. With that more care is needed with regards to shutter speed and DOF working handheld in all of those situations. Sensor Plus helps me here since I can bump the ISO pretty darn well but even with a 45mm at F8 it still is shallow so it takes more care on focusing on your focus plane and getting what you need. This will take time and also something I don't do very often but can be used here is stepping back a step or two and getting more in the frame to increase the DOF than crop in some. You have plenty of a file engine here to get away with that.

Also the use of a monopod sometimes is invaluable. As soon as I get to a 150mm I start thinking monopod. Don't always use it but the thought is there which triggers the shutter speed awareness in your head as you are working. Now someone that works fast like I do this takes concentration and knowing your gear. Obviously this takes time and folks should really not evaluate yourself and your gear to hard until about 3 months pass or a lot of shooting time involved.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
BTW some great comments here. Please keep this up . Obviously will help others know what to look for.
 

aldo

New member
The biggest adjustment for me has been adaptation to the more narrow depth of field and need for higher shutter speeds (relative to 35mm) to achieve critical sharpness due to the higher resolution. That is a double whammy because as you stop down to gain depth of field you loose shutter speed. Add in the generally poorer high ISO performance of digital MF and you have a challenge. I like it though, because it forces me to pay more attention to what I and doing.
Same for me. I was used to the Nikon base ISO 200. Monopod is now my third leg :ROTFL: I thought I was going to miss the focal plane shutter, but thanks I now need to use smaller apertures I've never needed it (so far).

Something that I don't hear often as a MFD plus is the larger FOV. I'm really happy to be able to shoot a group of people with a 50mm (with no distorted heads or legs, thanks to Phocus lens corrections also) instead of a 31mm that I would need to use in 35mm terms, that adds a lot of flexibility in small spaces.

Loving the extreme shallow DOF. A friend of mine uses a Canon 5d Mark II + 85 1.2... I found that combo comparable to my H4D-40 + 100 2.2, but I've found the Canon 1.2 wide open is kind of soft at the focus plane. I'm really impressed with MFD wide open (the HC 100 at 2.2) the part that is focus is really sharp and the out of focus trasition is really pleasing to the eye...

Talking about retouching, I love the resolution I have now. It's not the same trying to retouch a group of people where each face is 300 * 300 pixels instead a face made of 800 * 800 pixels.

I haven't hear this point on favour of MFD often: When you retouch or make a comp (I'm also a graphic designer, and I make a lot of comps often), more resolution IS ALWAYS BETTER. Try to insolate a person from a 10 MP image, and try to do it from a 40 MP image, the 40 MP mask always look better... it's a fact for retouchers.

Also, the extra resolution and sharpness has been a blessing and a curse so far... blessing when working with models with nice skin, but when you shoot a portrait of a bride with no so good skin genes it take a little more time than usual (but not that much).
 

etrigan63

Active member
Oh make no mistake Guy, this site was pivotal in my decision to go MFD. I just have to get there financially and not have my wife contract a hit on me.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
After a while...your MF system will sit on the shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9 or CaNikon to get the happy snap. After more time - you wont waste time shooting with a MF camera - you will instead use the back on an Alpa or similar tech camera spend a fortune on a few Schneiders or Rodenstcks - and then watch them sit on a shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9.
Then you will lust for movements - figure out that a tiny MF chip isn't a piece of 4X5 or 8X10 no mater how much you try. at which point you buy a larger format camera - only to realise sooner..that it is such a hassle - and then you reach for your M9 again. Then..they bring out a new more megapixel chip and the value of your back halves and then halves again..but you are saved by a generous 'upgrade' path - which starts the whole cycle again...you do this for one or two iterations..like groundhog day..until yo remember you had the Xpan in the back of the closet ..buy some film an rediscover real photography again - until....you stop souping up your film because you haven't go the time..and then..you reach for the M9 again :ROTFL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
After a while...your MF system will sit on the shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9 or CaNikon to get the happy snap. After more time - you wont waste time shooting with a MF camera - you will instead use the back on an Alpa or similar tech camera spend a fortune on a few Schneiders or Rodenstcks - and then watch them sit on a shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9.
Then you will lust for movements - figure out that a tiny MF chip isn't a piece of 4X5 or 8X10 no mater how much you try. at which point you buy a larger format camera - only to realise sooner..that it is such a hassle - and then you reach for your M9 again. Then..they bring out a new more megapixel chip and the value of your back halves and then halves again..but you are saved by a generous 'upgrade' path - which starts the whole cycle again...you do this for one or two iterations..like groundhog day..until yo remember you had the Xpan in the back of the closet ..buy some film an rediscover real photography again - until....you stop souping up your film because you haven't go the time..and then..you reach for the M9 again :ROTFL:

Your working too much Peter need to get out more. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I know me too and all that has been going on around my house the last 6 months i have not gone out to shoot for me just clients. But things are starting to settle down.


For the hobbyist though and we have touched on this is sometimes you just have to force yourself to get back into the swing. Happens all the time get busy and things collect dust with all hobbies. My golf clubs have caked on dust.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
After a while...your MF system will sit on the shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9 or CaNikon to get the happy snap. After more time - you wont waste time shooting with a MF camera - you will instead use the back on an Alpa or similar tech camera spend a fortune on a few Schneiders or Rodenstcks - and then watch them sit on a shelf gathering dust as you reach for your M9.
Then you will lust for movements - figure out that a tiny MF chip isn't a piece of 4X5 or 8X10 no mater how much you try. at which point you buy a larger format camera - only to realise sooner..that it is such a hassle - and then you reach for your M9 again. Then..they bring out a new more megapixel chip and the value of your back halves and then halves again..but you are saved by a generous 'upgrade' path - which starts the whole cycle again...you do this for one or two iterations..like groundhog day..until yo remember you had the Xpan in the back of the closet ..buy some film an rediscover real photography again - until....you stop souping up your film because you haven't go the time..and then..you reach for the M9 again :ROTFL:
Cracked me up!
 

Dan Santoso

New member
I had my Df for a few weeks.

The biggest challenge is the focus. I need to use auto for fashion shoot. I keep missing critical focus due to slight movement (hand held). I have to really pay attention about how to shoot now and probably need to use a tripod.

Second biggest complain is the LCD. I cant see a damn thing outside. For a 40K system, it is not fair for the user :(

I wish the new DF camera will have great autofocus with more focus points while the new back has larger n better resolution LCD/OLED


-Dan Santoso
www.dansantoso.com
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Dan two things may help. On the DF you can set all three focus points as activated. I use this myself. Actually you can set camera to C mode continuous for focusing and hell one more thing maybe the best of all a monopod. Pick up at least two shutter stop speeds if not more. Try those out or at least one or two and see if it helps. And biggest key of all give it some time , even seasoned Pro's these things take time to get used too. I'm shooting runway all next week and will post some results.


LCD . Your not going to get a argument from me. LOL
 

Dan Santoso

New member
Thanks Guy. I used the 3 points with AF set in fast in that shoot but they dont help.

Should I put into accurate? which one better central focus or all 3 points in your opinion.

I usually focus into the model face at f11-f16 then compose the image (usually full body or 3/4).


-Dan
 
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