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Pondering the plunge... Dante's Inferno here I come!

JohnH

New member
I'm telling my 13 year old to learn the Chinese language NOW
Guy - I think that is marvelous advice. I am a software consultant [I was a CPA until 1985, decided to change career], working at the moment in Bangkok. The demand for professionals of any kind with language abilities is very high, especially for Chinese language.

Photography - I put myself though University. Found I was working in my bathroom/darkroom until 3 am or later, with lectures starting at 8 am - decided to go for the degree. Now - some many years later - I am regaining my passion for photography and other creative activities [writing]. So I am due for another career change very soon!

I would recommend a good degree/double degree or post grad, plus the addition of fluency in Chinese. A winning combination.

John
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
Drop it all, get an Math/CS degree, then MBA, wait till you're 40 to start taking photos, then get a MFDB ..........

Oh, wait a minute, that's what I did:ROTFL:

Pick any of you plans and do it with a passion! I do believe my money spent on university was my best investment ever.

Closely followed by my decision keep jobs that let me travel the world for 15 years rather than be in to corporate rat race.

Happily typed from the staring line on yet another marketing powerpoint from Rat Stable # 715

Dave
 

jlm

Workshop Member
my advice is that what you retain from the university is the problem solving and mind/vision expanding experiences, not the specifics. You will likely never have that University opportunity again where you can take poetry, philosophy, math and science, for example. When you are finally in your career, it is unlikely you will be solving differential equations, (everything is computer modeled) but you will understand them.

as far as specifics, I'm 100% with Guy: work as an apprentice, no schooling can prepare you as well.
 

Giorgio

Member
Photography had better be a calling, something that you cannot avoid doing. To become a photographer, professionally you really need passion. A passion that simply will not allow you to do anything else.

For many it's a great hobby, more the power to them.

The future of Photography belongs to those who have great ideas and are able to execute them, the camera is just a tool.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Have to say on this topic after 35 years I did alright by yesterdays standards. Wife , home 2 kids , 3 cars and we are doing okay. But retirement is sketchy and if I did it right back than I would have a career backup. Like a Pro sports athlete your career will end at some point and better have something to turn too. I wish I did have something like a law degree or a masters in business. As it is I have nothing really to turn too as a 53 year old no one wants me out there in the market outside of photography. I can teach and damn good at it so I have that but if I had to do it all over again I would have a REAL career backup plan. Photography school is great but it will not make you a star out here and I have seen more Brooks grads go out of business than can make your head spin. Photography is a long learned process and best is being a assistant, take some classes and do workshops and what I did mostly is worked my *** off and taught myself. Some more added thoughts, need to go catch a flight. Check in later
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
I'm telling my 13 year old to learn the Chinese language NOW
2 semesters down, and nothing to show for it. Chinese is a brutal language to learn... haha, I've tried. You've gotta start early on with language, it helps immensely. Maybe my window for languages has closed a bit... German came/is coming very easy.

Guy Mancuso said:
Photography is a long learned process and best is being a assistant, take some classes and do workshops and what I did mostly is worked my *** off and taught myself.
I've found that I learn best by teaching myself. At least in photography. I really don't think there is any better way than just spending time with a given camera, shooting the same subject over and over, and seeing what works and what doesn't. I've revisited the Milwaukee Art Museum designed by Calatrava COUNTLESS times, just to re-shoot it. And I'm getting better. noticeably. Sprinkle in forums, a class here and there, working with a practicing professional, and maybe a workshop someday, and I think I'll be fine without a full blown photo degree.
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
Pick any of you plans and do it with a passion! I do believe my money spent on university was my best investment ever.

Closely followed by my decision keep jobs that let me travel the world for 15 years rather than be in to corporate rat race.
Dave
More travel is definitely one goal of mine. I'm in the process already of jury rigging an individualized major with a study abroad requirement. I think a semester or two in Europe couldn't hurt! :thumbup:

Don Libby said:
If I had to do it all over again? Stay with the government however in a totally different area - National Park Service. Can you image waking up to go to work in the Grand Canyon? How about Yosemite, Yellowstone or Denali? Okay the pay might not be as good however the more I get to these places and meet the Rangers there I'm finding a lot of them not only truly love what they are doing some of them are great photographers in their own right. How many people can say they truly love what they do?

Doing something you have a passion for and doing it well is a hell of a reward. Sometimes the ends justify the means. Grad school/law school will get you where in life? Will you truly be doing what you want to do? Whose dreams are you chasing - yours or someone else's?
I'm lucky enough to have visited Arches, Wind Cave, Badlands, Bryce, Rocky Mountain, Zion, and Capitol Reef. I spent more than a month in the back country of Glacier last summer helping with grad student research. A life goal of mine is to visit every National Park. At 20, I feel I have a healthy start.

I'm not setting anything of myself aside by going after grad/law school as well. Next to photo in high school was the business club/DECA competition. We placed in the international level. Two years running. Won first in state one year. I can say that I love it, and look forward to coming out with a law degree.

For what it sounds like for a few of you, you are photographers that are wishing you had a backup plan/career. I'm going to (fingers crossed, hopefully!) have a career in Financial Law. The industry is booming (gotta thank the MUCH more strict registration requirements!), both nationally and internationally. Photography will be my backup for when I get sick of working 70 hour work weeks, and sitting in an office/cube/desk, and want to do something... well, something else.

I'm doing what I love, but making the safe bet, I believe.
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
Here is what I've learned ...

Stand back and survey the future, and get other perspectives on what that may be. Stare reality in the face, whether you like that face or not.

The cross roads you are at now is NOT which school to attend, or which piece of gear to buy. It is which road will lead somewhere rewarding as defined by you now at your stage of your life looking forward. Then you can move on to the other decisions, which I'd wager will be clearer.

I say this because, broad or narrow, there has to be purpose attached to a decision. Nothing feeds passion like purpose.
And this is where the last bit of hang up for me exists. In 5 or 10 years from now, am I going to be saying, "I wish I had gone to art school!" or, "I wish I wasn't $75k in debt, because I don't have a reliable job and have no real way to pay it back."

I'm NOT going to be a damn couch surfer at 27. I WON'T be living in my mom's basement. I think a law degree is a safer bet to insuring that neither of those things happen.

I realize that would most likely be the worst case scenario, but in the current economic environment, I think it isn't that unlikely.

I guess what is rewarding for me at this point is stability and independence. Or... money. Hate to be a bit shallow, but I feel like I will be able to pursue things a little bit easier if I am financially stable/successful. The course I'm on now (UW to law school to work) seems to be one of the routes that will lead me most in the direction I want to go in.

And yes, I do realize that often, with money you lose independence. Where's it coming from? Oh yeah, that 70 hour a week death march job. So, I have considered this. Early retirement (if I am blessed), or midlife career change to photo is my opt out for when this goes to hell.
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
I have to say thank you to all of you for the rather sage advice. It is amazing to hear from so many professional and otherwise, and to hear what many of you did.

Thank you all!

Oddly, though, I think I had this mostly figured out. I'm signing my lease sometime this week to live here in Madison for the next year. I figured I'd just throw this on here as a last resort, hail mary, should I DEFINITELY go to art school kinda thing. I'm not hearing much of that (a little, yes, but a majority otherwise).

All of you have done an amazing job in basically reaffirming the things that I have been mulling over for the past two weeks. My parents, professors, girlfriend, and everyone else seems to agree: Go for what I think is most right for me. Follow my passion. Right now, I'd have to say that is to stay the course and make the most of my UW education.

A perk of this course for me, is the fact that I now have the opportunity to invest in some higher end equipment. I REALLY hope that it doesn't seem as though I am choosing equipment over school. That is honestly not the case. I am staying where I am for financial, personal, and education related reasons.

Now, a few equipment questions:
1. Would any of you go through Calumet for a purchase as large as a MFD system? Should I only use smaller, more personal dealers? Is there a good Hassy dealer in/near Wisconsin/Chicago?

2. Hassy lenses. How is the 50-110 HCD? I've read that it is near prime quality, but what would I be losing? A little speed, yes, but is it too big to use handheld?

3. Long term costs and maintenance. Think of it this way: When you buy a Mercedes or a Ferrari, its not just the sticker price that is high... it's every time you need maintenance too. (I can attest with my 1987 300E AMG. HOW MUCH IS A SIDE MIRROR!? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!) These cars throw hissy fits, and they don't run for 200,000 miles without a problem like a Toyota. Are MF cameras the same way? Do I need to be wary of things like this?
 
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tetsrfun

Guest
Ferrari, its not just the sticker price that is high... it's every time you need maintenance too...
*****
Gas cap $450.... :>)
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
Ferrari, its not just the sticker price that is high... it's every time you need maintenance too...
*****
Gas cap $450.... :>)
Exactly, haha! On my neighbor's Merc, he had to replace the power window motor, and it was well over $1000. Redic.

I guess something I need to make clear, is that I'm not going to be starving to make this investment. I wouldn't consider it if that was the case. I'm not on the college ramen diet, in fact my girlfriend and I eat better than just about anyone I know. I'm not going to be struggling to afford this, is what is important.

But, I DO need to know what to expect as far as lifespan of the gear.
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I turn 55 in a few weeks and am still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up...

Jay Maisel had the best advice I've ever heard on photography as a career: If you want to be a photographer, be the best photographer you can be and you will be rewarded. If you want to be highly paid as a photographer, do something else.

:rolleyes:,
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
2 semesters down, and nothing to show for it. Chinese is a brutal language to learn... haha, I've tried. You've gotta start early on with language, it helps immensely.....
Chinese is extremely difficult. I never could pick it up fluently---luckily I get by with just the "Chinese-look..." :ROTFL:

Education is always a good thing. It really doesn't matter too much what your major is---you're only picking up the basics in any particular field. What is most important is that you're learning how to learn. Your education goes with you no matter where you are in life.

Btw, I'm one of those attorneys that Don Libby mentioned no longer practices law. After ten years I got tired of (as Don says) "working for people who would slit your throat in a heart beat." And I'm not even talking about ex-wives...

:ROTFL:
 

NotXorc

New member
Jay Maisel had the best advice I've ever heard on photography as a career: If you want to be a photographer, be the best photographer you can be and you will be rewarded. If you want to be highly paid as a photographer, do something else.

:rolleyes:,
In one book I read, Maisel was positvely brutal toward young, idealistic photographers. The reason for his harsh tone was clear - those close to you are not the ones to judge your fitness for entering the professional workforce with a camera. Some folks even have the notion that photography is a relatively lucrative field. I completely agree with Giorgio:
The future of Photography belongs to those who have great ideas and are able to execute them, the camera is just a tool.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Chinese is extremely difficult. I never could pick it up fluently---luckily I get by with just the "Chinese-look..." :ROTFL:

Education is always a good thing. It really doesn't matter too much what your major is---you're only picking up the basics in any particular field. What is most important is that you're learning how to learn. Your education goes with you no matter where you are in life.

Btw, I'm one of those attorneys that Don Libby mentioned no longer practices law. After ten years I got tired of (as Don says) "working for people who would slit your throat in a heart beat." And I'm not even talking about ex-wives...

:ROTFL:
Wait a minute - I thought you were legal counsel for Iron Creek? :rolleyes:

Actually he's there to help me hide things from Sandy :ROTFL:
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I turn 55 in a few weeks and am still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up...

Jay Maisel had the best advice I've ever heard on photography as a career: If you want to be a photographer, be the best photographer you can be and you will be rewarded. If you want to be highly paid as a photographer, do something else.

:rolleyes:,

I've got the best of all worlds. I get to photograph landscape which is without a doubt my passion all the collecting a steady check at the end of the month. Made the entire bulls@#T of the 30 plus years well worth it. I also feel that having that steady income has helped my creative juices flow.
 
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Alexander DeVoe

Guest
I've got the best of all worlds. I get to photograph landscape which is without a doubt my passion all the collecting a steady check at the end of the month. Made the entire bulls@#T of the 30 plus years well worth it. I also feel that having that steady income has helped my creative juices flow.
I think this might be the path that I am headed towards. Hopefully minus a few years of bull****, give or take, but I think this is the deal I'm in for. Put up with (and hopefully enjoy) a demanding job for a while and eventually retire or quit to pursue the things I couldn't without a bit of financial stability.

I like the steady income idea. I'm not going to lie. For this reason alone, I think I have to rule out photography as a singular career choice.



Also, to all that have posted:

A big Thank You! is in order. The myriad of viewpoints offered here have even more confirmed the thoughts I've been having. I've been looking at all of your work, and I have to say, I'm completely inspired. I need to revisit a National Park or two. :LOL:

I just want to say that I am going to be a life long photographer: no matter what my career, no matter what equipment I have, and no matter how much money I am making. It's not something I will ever give up. Whether I adopt MFD or not, I am going to be shooting. Whether I go to an art school or law school or any school, I'm going to be shooting.

Thanks again to everyone.

-Alex
 
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