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Thread: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

  1. #1
    Alexander DeVoe
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    H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Alright, so I'm starting a fresh thread for a few technical questions I have.

    #1 - The H3DII-31 features microlenses on it's sensor, no? I have read that these cause problems when using movements and wide angle lenses on a technical/view camera. Is this only with very wide angle lenses? Would I be able to mount this back on my Sinar and use shifts to stitch? Would 90mm and up lenses with movements applied be safe?

    #2 - The 50-110HC Lens. I hear that it is almost as good as the primes in this range. Is this true? It is a large lens, but is it still hand holdable from experience?

    #3 - Filters on the 28 HCD. Is there vignetting with the use of filters on this lens?

    #4 - How does this camera perform at long exposure. I realize that it does not go beyond 32 seconds (correct?), but how is it after about a second?

    I'm just trying to feel out my options if I decide to jump up in cameras. What else is there (new) in this price range that I might be missing? I like to print large, so dropping to the phase/leaf 22mp might not be an option for me.

    Let me know what you think.

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander DeVoe View Post
    Alright, so I'm starting a fresh thread for a few technical questions I have.

    #1 - The H3DII-31 features microlenses on it's sensor, no? I have read that these cause problems when using movements and wide angle lenses on a technical/view camera. Is this only with very wide angle lenses? Would I be able to mount this back on my Sinar and use shifts to stitch? Would 90mm and up lenses with movements applied be safe?
    Yes it's micro-lensed which in theory should cause colour casts, in practice (from what I hear) that seems not to be the case.I use the 31 with the HTS all the time with no cast issues. Should you get a cast Phocus' built in cast correction does a very good job.
    #2 - The 50-110HC Lens. I hear that it is almost as good as the primes in this range. Is this true? It is a large lens, but is it still hand holdable from experience?
    Yes to your first question when I first got mine I could not tell it apart from the 80mm.
    As for hand-holding not really IMO. it's a pretty heavy bulky lens.
    #3 - Filters on the 28 HCD. Is there vignetting with the use of filters on this lens?
    I have used a (thin) polariser on the 28mm with no problems, bearing in mind the physical size of the 31 chip I don't think vignetting would ever be an issue (maybe on the 60Mpix though).
    #4 - How does this camera perform at long exposure. I realize that it does not go beyond 32 seconds (correct?), but how is it after about a second?
    I have often shot with mine at 10 seconds with no issues though I'm not really a long exposure type..

    HTh
    Nick-T

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    Yes it's micro-lensed which in theory should cause colour casts, in practice (from what I hear) that seems not to be the case.I use the 31 with the HTS all the time with no cast issues.
    it's basically the same sensor as used on the P30, correct? So it will show color cast (and heavy vignetting) on a tech camera where the lens is much closer to the sensor than with the HTS. Too, with the HTS the rear lens always remains centered (if I am not mistaken). So this is very different from lens- or back-movements on a tech camera.

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Correct Thomas in theory, however I have heard from other photographers using the 31 on tech cameras with good results, perhaps they were only using limited movements..

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    Correct Thomas in theory, however I have heard from other photographers using the 31 on tech cameras with good results, perhaps they were only using limited movements..
    ... or maybe only longer lenses ? ...

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Yes good point..

  7. #7
    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    As far as movements go, I would be using it on a 4x5 view camera and stitching multiple shots using either a sliding back, or a static mount + rise/fall and shifts. My lenses would be 90mm or longer.

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    If that's the majority of your work then I'd say that I micro-lensed back is not ideal..

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Hi Alexander. I was on the same road. My 2 cent about the Sinar. I have a Sinar x with a Sinar 54M "old" back that for me is more than enough. I use it tethered to my Macbook Pro 17". It is frustrating to achive good focus with this camera. I use it with a Foba Stand and Sinar Pan Tilt Head. My solution was to buy an Arca M-Line Two.
    You will also need to buy "digital" lenses from Rodenstock or Schneider for best results. I believe that with this Hasselblad back you will need HR lenses that are more expensive, if you want to use it with a view camera. With HR lenses you will not have much image circle for large movements with wide angle lenses.
    There are much more things to take care before buy a MFDB. Take your time and search for very good advices in this forum. Make the best possible use of the knowledge of people like Jack and Guy and many others before make a decision.

    Luis

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    even if it's not the majority of the work ...
    the few times you use it you want to get good results, no?
    so I'd definitely go for a back without microlenses (H3D39 or so).
    AFAIK you'll need some external power for the Hasselblad back when attached to a tech camera...?
    Last edited by thomas; 21st July 2010 at 15:14.

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by celina20 View Post
    With HR lenses you will not have much image circle for large movements with wide angle lenses.
    the "Digaron-S" have small image circles, the "Digaron-W" have larger image circles...

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    AFAIK you'll need some external power for the Hasselblad back when attached to a tech camera...?
    Yes this is correct, something like this:

    https://store.hotwire-digital.com/pr...FireWire-power

  13. #13
    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Ugh. This is quickly becoming something that might not be worth it. For the little bit of work that I do that NEEDS movement, I think I can manage to shoot film. Alright, I think I'm going to have to rule this one out, H3DII-31 or not. New lens/es for the 4x5 isn't going to be worth it...

    -Alex

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    I have a H3D II 50 loaner now and I get serious color casts with it with the 43 XL ... so I guess the 31 will be even worse. In my view this is really annoying.

    Secondly, I got the battery from hotwire and it didn't work with my system. after 20-30 minutes it wouldn't have enough power to make exposures. Turns out that not every back uses exactly the same amount of power and that in some scenarios the hotwire battery won't cut it. I now got an expensive image bank.

    if you want to go technical, think about these problems ...

    regards

    paul

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    I can second Nick's experience with the 50-110. Very sharp and difficult to differentiate from the 80. But the lens is quite heavy for hand held...which is a bit ironic because IMHO, that's what a zoom is there for.

    Here is a shot from it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    Yes to your first question when I first got mine I could not tell it apart from the 80mm.
    As for hand-holding not really IMO. it's a pretty heavy bulky lens.



    HTh
    Nick-T

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    I use the 50-110 handheld all the time. Yes it is heavy and will wear you out. Having borrowed the 35-90 for a while I can tell you that has definitely moved the 35-90 up on my priority list.

    My 50-110 is somewhat better than my 50 (though I love the 50 for its relatively small size and pretty unique rendering which is visible to me though hard to describe). Less than the 100, pretty similar to my 80. All in all it is my most used lens after the 100.

    I use flash most of the time which does make a difference compared to available light.

    I have used long exposures up to 64seconds on my CF39 which looked great. A totally different experience compared to long exposures on my Leaf backs.

    I have just sold my X-Act2 since I can do most of the stuff I need movements for with the HTS. The things I cannot do are rare (in my case), I think I have to manage those occassions with things like focus bracketing and post work.

    I might have an image bank for sale
    Last edited by Dustbak; 21st July 2010 at 23:29.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Alexander, IMO, the H3D-II/31 should be viewed as a 35mm DSLR replacement in terms of applications rather than as a technical or studio camera where severe movements are required.

    The higher ISO ability and programable mirror delay of the 31 makes it more mobile and hand-holdable for available light work ... or light strobist type applications. I used mine for weddings and location commercial work of people, life style, industrial work place shots, and some action outdoor shots.

    When I had that 31 camera, I also used a H3D-II/39 for studio work and applications on my RolleiXact2 with lenses from 28mm to 120 macro digital lenses. I did not experience much color cast, if any. However, when using a tech camera and Phocus, the DAC corrections do not apply.

    My Hasselblad dealer is very well versed in use of these backs on technical cameras as he was the lead tech guy in a working car/truck and product studio here in Detroit. There is a technique that he showed me to mitigate any cast with extreme movements ... but I've since forgotten the details as I now use the HTS for most table-top shots with a CF39 Multi-Shot or H4D/40 ... which the software corrects all issues with any color cast, etc.

    I now use a H4D/40 for the applications I used the H3D-II/31 ... which was secured mostly for the True Focus/ Focus Re-compose feature. I use the HTS for shift work with the H4D/40 and the panoramic results are stellar using the PTGui Pro stitching software.

    -Marc

    BTW, all of these MFD cameras are much more versatile than first impressions would have you believe. It takes a little time to get proficient, but once somewhat mastered, you'll be amazed at the IQ, and dynamic range even in some difficult lighting scenarios.

    Here's one available light AF action shot using the H3D-II/31 @ ISO 200, 1/250th shutter using a 150mm + 1.7X extender which was printed at 6' wide for a trade show booth.

  18. #18
    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Marc-

    I think, IF I go down the Hassy road, that I would be using it mostly for a DLSR replacement. That is where I am coming from, and really, I'm not looking for more than that. I was just kinda sorta hoping that I could pick up a feature or two, but it isn't really needed. To be honest for the situations where I NEED movements, I can always shoot 4x5 film and scan. Not often, so it isn't too much of a hassle. Plus I enjoy film. (sometimes...)

    Also, that is a FANTASTIC available light shot, and definitely makes me want to step up in camera. I know that it wasn't the camera that made that shot, but I know the gear I have COULDN'T make that shot.

    Peter C. - Good to see the quality out of that lens. Very convincing. Also, who makes those shoes? I like 'em. haha. Unless they cost more than the camera I'm looking at, in that case don't tell me.

    -Alex

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Alex, the shoes...are made by Carmina...custom patina by hand at their shop in Paris (rue d'Opera). They are relatively inexpensive, and a good buy for ready to wear shoes...prices for calf range from Euro 350 to Euro 500 or so...add a little bit for custom patina. I love the shoes...and introduced them to this client, and he loves them too...:-)

    The watch, worn by the client, on the other hand...um...left hand...is more than US$120k.

    BTW, my H3D-39 is a DSLR replacement...replaced a 1dmk3 with a bevy of L lenses. Must say I do sometimes miss the go anywhere ability of the Canon, but the image quality of the Hassie is outstanding and beats anything Canon can dish out. I recently reacquainted with Canon and shot my friend's 5dmk2...am glad I went to Hassie.

    p.s. I am looking to sell the 50-110 and 35...:-) The 35 is already in the sale corner. I have a 28 as well, which is getting used more, hence the sale of the 35. But the 35 can be used on a film back (on the H3D, not H3d-2 or H4d as these don't accept film backs), and have a wider image circle.

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    The watch, worn by the client, on the other hand...um...left hand...is more than US$120k.
    Lange Tourbillon ??

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    Re: H3DII-31/Hasselblad Questions

    yes, Lange Pour le Merite Tourbillon in yellow gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Lange Tourbillon ??

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