J
jessehe
Guest
What's the best camera configure for P65+?
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kdphotography
Well-known member
Well, Marc----do you wanna go first, or should I?
:ROTFL:
:ROTFL:
Okay, all jesting aside. Simple answer is to demo both cameras (Hassy H and Phase DF) at your dealer, shooting tethered and un-tethered with a wide, normal and tele and then work the files. After all that you'll know which camera is right for you 
Once you have that decided, we can then give suggestions on how we each "configure" the customizable features on our respective body choices.
Good news is there is no right or wrong answer, just one that is better for you and your style and needs than the other.
Cheers,
Once you have that decided, we can then give suggestions on how we each "configure" the customizable features on our respective body choices.
Good news is there is no right or wrong answer, just one that is better for you and your style and needs than the other.
Cheers,
J
jessehe
Guest
I mean, how to best play its high-resolution
clearly a view camera / tech camera with Rodenstock HR or Schneider Digitar lenses
Do you mean what different cameras can you use with a P65+ ... or how do you set up a Phase camera and which lenses?
If the latter, the latest Phase camera with all the available LS lenses to take advantage of the dual shutter ability is how I would configure the system.
If a different camera with the Phase P65+ you'd have to go for a H2. Personally, I sure the heck would NOT get a now discontinued Hasselblad H2 for that $40K back. First off, without a Hassey digital back and Phocus software, you can't use the HCD/28.. or HCD/35-90 on a H2 and get all the DAC corrections. In fact, not sure, but I don't think you can use those lenses at all.
That would be moving forward with the digital back while moving backward with the camera and limiting your lens options.
Per Jack's suggestion ... study, test drive, and compare both 60 meg systems from Hasselblad and Phase One on their best current cameras .... then make a decision which best fits your needs. While you are at it consider the 56 meg Leaf Aptus 10R (depending on your applications).
-Marc
If the latter, the latest Phase camera with all the available LS lenses to take advantage of the dual shutter ability is how I would configure the system.
If a different camera with the Phase P65+ you'd have to go for a H2. Personally, I sure the heck would NOT get a now discontinued Hasselblad H2 for that $40K back. First off, without a Hassey digital back and Phocus software, you can't use the HCD/28.. or HCD/35-90 on a H2 and get all the DAC corrections. In fact, not sure, but I don't think you can use those lenses at all.
That would be moving forward with the digital back while moving backward with the camera and limiting your lens options.
Per Jack's suggestion ... study, test drive, and compare both 60 meg systems from Hasselblad and Phase One on their best current cameras .... then make a decision which best fits your needs. While you are at it consider the 56 meg Leaf Aptus 10R (depending on your applications).
-Marc
kdphotography
Well-known member
There are many options to using the P65+ and the "right choice" is mostly dependent on personal needs and choice. Tech cameras with Rodenstock/Schneider lenses really take advantage of the P65+ capabilities, but the platform may/may not be what you need for your work. New Phase DF fits me fine. See Chris Barrett's post on his Rm3d set-up.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of other investments that just go hand-in-hand with your P65+---some of which may not be so apparent when you first make the MFDB investment.
For example, don't forget a good stable tripod and head. The Gitzo 3 and 5 series CF tripods are a safe bet. The Arca Swiss Cube is a favored head. (Hey Jack/Guy, where's the GetDPI special edition Arca Swiss Cube?) And computer power---more RAM and storage concerns.
A good dealer can help you make the right decisions/answer questions. If you're in the States, give Capture Integration in Atlanta or Miami a call. www.captureintegration.com
Unfortunately, there are a lot of other investments that just go hand-in-hand with your P65+---some of which may not be so apparent when you first make the MFDB investment.
For example, don't forget a good stable tripod and head. The Gitzo 3 and 5 series CF tripods are a safe bet. The Arca Swiss Cube is a favored head. (Hey Jack/Guy, where's the GetDPI special edition Arca Swiss Cube?) And computer power---more RAM and storage concerns.
A good dealer can help you make the right decisions/answer questions. If you're in the States, give Capture Integration in Atlanta or Miami a call. www.captureintegration.com
Don Libby
Well-known member
Okay, I might not own a P65+ however I do play one on TV. It's early in the morning and I haven't had all my coffee...
You need to factor in the image quality of the P65 which is huge. Ken and Jack have been "getting by" using their Phase camera and lenses (I'm snickering here) rather well. However if it were I, I would use a technical camera with either Schneider or Rodenstock lenses. And that's just half the equation...
Higher rez images require a substantial working platform of tripod and head (the soon to be released GetDpi special edition Cube is what I recommend :deadhorse. Then there's the additional computing power that'll be required to adequately process the images; I'd figure on 24-32 GB RAM to start. Also don't forget about the speed of the hard drives.
Lastly you need to do a gut check on why you want to P65 (as I've done). If you shoot multiple disciplines ranging from product, portrait, weddings and landscape then this would be a great fit as you'll use the P65 to its fullest. In my case being a landscape shooter I couldn't justify the additional cost of the P65 for features I wouldn't need nor use. The P40 and P45+ are both very great alternatives.
Lastly (yes I said that above but I really mean it this time) Ken is totally correct with his dealer comment. A good dealer will not only help you in your decision, he'll also help you avoid any costly mistakes. That said I echo Ken's recommendation of contacting Capture Integration.
Some of this might have been written tongue in cheek however the main points weren't; besides Guy will shortly respond with his summary.
It's early in the morning and I haven't had all my coffee...You need to factor in the image quality of the P65 which is huge. Ken and Jack have been "getting by" using their Phase camera and lenses (I'm snickering here) rather well. However if it were I, I would use a technical camera with either Schneider or Rodenstock lenses. And that's just half the equation...
Higher rez images require a substantial working platform of tripod and head (the soon to be released GetDpi special edition Cube is what I recommend :deadhorse
. Then there's the additional computing power that'll be required to adequately process the images; I'd figure on 24-32 GB RAM to start. Also don't forget about the speed of the hard drives. Lastly you need to do a gut check on why you want to P65 (as I've done). If you shoot multiple disciplines ranging from product, portrait, weddings and landscape then this would be a great fit as you'll use the P65 to its fullest. In my case being a landscape shooter I couldn't justify the additional cost of the P65 for features I wouldn't need nor use. The P40 and P45+ are both very great alternatives.
Lastly (yes I said that above but I really mean it this time) Ken is totally correct with his dealer comment. A good dealer will not only help you in your decision, he'll also help you avoid any costly mistakes. That said I echo Ken's recommendation of contacting Capture Integration.
Some of this might have been written tongue in cheek however the main points weren't; besides Guy will shortly respond with his summary.
eleanorbrown
New member
OK, (yes I've had my coffee this morning .....I'm going to get in my 2 cents here and it differs a bit. I have a P65+ and use an H2 camera system and (important here) LEAF shutter lenses (no camera vibration from a focal plane shutter). Think Phase is now making leaf shutter lenses too). I use a 2540 gitzo carbon fiber tripod with a RRS 40 medium sized ball head (if the weather is really windy I have an RRS 55 head which is rock solid for challenging conditions). I have never had any stability issues. My most used H lenses are the50mm, 80mm, 100mm and occasionally the 210mm. (I also have the H35mm but the 50 is sharper)...... I don't go longer than 210mm.
I have never needed more tripod or head than what I mentioned and my images are razor sharp, provided my technique is acceptable (mirror lock up, solid ground, etc. (or as sharp as the lenses I use are capable of). I also recommend CI as a dealer)......Eleanor
.....I'm going to get in my 2 cents here and it differs a bit. I have a P65+ and use an H2 camera system and (important here) LEAF shutter lenses (no camera vibration from a focal plane shutter). Think Phase is now making leaf shutter lenses too). I use a 2540 gitzo carbon fiber tripod with a RRS 40 medium sized ball head (if the weather is really windy I have an RRS 55 head which is rock solid for challenging conditions). I have never had any stability issues. My most used H lenses are the50mm, 80mm, 100mm and occasionally the 210mm. (I also have the H35mm but the 50 is sharper)...... I don't go longer than 210mm.I have never needed more tripod or head than what I mentioned and my images are razor sharp, provided my technique is acceptable (mirror lock up, solid ground, etc. (or as sharp as the lenses I use are capable of). I also recommend CI as a dealer)......Eleanor
I agree! The talk about the Cube and the large Gitzo tripods is a bit overdone here on the forum (above all as there are better tripods than the Gitzos...). Too, the beauty of the Cube is its sophisticated usablity... not the rigidity. Of course it's rigid... but so are other tripod heads as well. Especially with a small tech camera you won't have vibration issues even if you use much simpler gear.OK, (yes I've had my coffee this morning
I have never needed more tripod or head than what I mentioned and my images are razor sharp, provided my technique is acceptable (mirror lock up, solid ground, etc. (or as sharp as the lenses I use are capable of). I also recommend CI as a dealer)......Eleanor
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
I've been shooting a p65+ on a PhaseOne DF for about a year now. I moved from a Hasselblad shooting a p45+. I wanted the back in integrate better with the body, and with the new firmware the DF/p65+ has taken this to a new level, including setting the camera from the nice large LCD on the back. I love the setup and the quality.
However, I just took delivery of an Alpa 12max along with the Schneider Apo-Digitar 35 and 47mm XL lenses, and a rodenstock Digaron HR W 70mm. (a couple more lenses on the way).
I was blown away by the difference in sharpness using this vs. the PhaseOne Camera. I haven't shot any side by sides, but the detail and crispness of images in the first couple of shoots is apparent, and imho, not insignificant.
Not cheap, and certainly a paradigm shift when shooting (although I actually enjoyed the deliberate and thoughtful effort it took to work with the technical camera).
I also believe using the cube for high end shooting is a dream ... I use it for both the Alpa and the PhaseOne. Some say it's overhyped, but I can't imaging spending tens of thousands of dollars on capture equipment, and then worry about saving a few hundred dollars on the device meant to hold it steady and make it functional.
it is... beyond doubt! but it's not the only tool to do what you call "high end shooting". it would be a poor world if there would be only one solution to solve certain problems...
In a studio environment where you can shoot a technical camera tethered, I think the marginal improvements in resolution over an Mamiya DF or H2 are possible to achieve in real world terms. However, in the field, where you cannot, as a practical matter, shoot tethered, the tech camera advantages become illusory for the simple reason that you cannot achieve precise focus. As anyone who has used a P65 can testify, the difference between precise focus and "guesstimate" focus using hyperfocal distance focusing is very significant. In order to extract the maximum resolution out of the P65, you really need to be able to focus bracket and merge the slices in something like Helicon Focus. (Shooting a brick wall at fixed distance is not a real world shooting experinece.) You simply can't precisely focus with a tech camera shooting untethered. Just like I cannot effectively compose with a tech camera using a lens on the wide or tele side. It's like a drive-by shooting experience similar to the experience of shooting with a point and shoot without a viewfinder where you "compose" on the LCD screen, and the landscape images I have seen taken with tech cameras look that way. Perhaps there are some people who really do "see" in the way a true wide angle or tele lens "sees", but I personally need to "see" the way the lens "sees" by looking through the lens.
very true! Except: shooting at infinity. Or shooting the Arca Swiss Rm3d...
Or shooting close distances that you can focus on the groundglass (as long as the GG is aligned accuratley... and as long as there is enoug light and contrast in the motif...).
Sure, but isn't it quite limiting to only shoot photographs where you can focus at infinity? As for the use of a ground glass, I just don't think it is a real world solution to use in the field under adverse weather conditions where you are dealing with swirling sand, dust, snow and rain. Is it even possible to achieve accurate focus on a gg for a mfdb.
Think about it this way. Have you ever seen a 4x5 or 8x10 shooter who walks up to a scene, mounts his camera on a tripod, loads the film and exposes the film, without ever composing and focusing on the ground glass?
Don Libby
Well-known member
I share the same feelings. I once bought a Sharps 45-110 for something like $4,500 and started to complain that I had to spend $200 for a sturdy case till I wised up..
You know of course I don't want to hear this! Here I've gone and said I really don't need/want the P65 and I have to hear this!
I think it depends a bit... I do use the ground glass ... but mostly just for composition. And that works quite good for me. I also use a laser distometer and learnt how to adjust the lens (on one lens I have also glued additional distance markers). I literally always shoot at f11 and f16 with the tech camera. I have no iusse focussing closer distances on the ground glass (but, of course, the wider the distance the harder the focussing on the GG). Finally you can always make some focus bracketing (which is a real PITA when stitching)...
It's all quite cumbersome (compared to live view on a DSLR or compared to shooting tethered)... but for some reason it actually works.
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
Of course, you are assuming in a field shoot there is a specific area of the image that needs to be "precise". While this may be true of some types of images, in my brief experience (I'll admit being a noob) using hyperfocal distance or the ground glass worked out quite well. It's not like you can focus that critically with a Mamiya DF either ... I would refer you to Joseph Holmes article about that (http://www.josephholmes.com/news-medformatprecision.html) And if you really need large depth of field, focus bracketing is the way to go.
However, I think it's not just about focusing, it's about the sharpness of the optics in general. I'll admit this may be partially because I've tended to be a zoom lens guy, and now being forced to use only primes may be part of the difference. But I believe optics for cameras such as the Alpa from Rodenstock and Schneider are perhaps a major reason for the visual sharpness I'm seeing.