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*** PHOTOKINA 2010 and MF... what is coming... ***

KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Oops, sorry wanted to put a ? mark after coming, but slipped out and can't correct the title:lecture:

Okay,

as I prepare for my Global Journey of Image capture, both in Still and Motion, I'm gathering all the gear that I will take along, so movie cameras I have them coming, and they do stills too.. the Red Epic-X cameras that is :D

Now for stills I have the Canon 1D IV with a good amount of "L" Glass, and also gathering quite an impressive amount of Profoto Flash systems, so what is missing is a really BAD A$#@^@^^SS MF camera System.

As I look at the Leica S2 (already ruled out, sorry Leica) and the Hassy H4D series, and the Phase One/DF combination with the P1+ series DB as well as the Phase One/DF combination with Leaf Aptus II systems, all I keep hearing is:

"Ketch don't spend 50k on a system now, we are only 3 Months away from PHOTOKINA, and this IS A PHOTOKINA YEAR"

So what does this mean? Is it something coming in the MF world that should make me wait and or fill stupid about investing in anew system before Photokina?

What's your take?

Anything you know or have heard of?

Besides, don't some dealers take full responsibility of their sales and offer upgrade paths?
 
Last edited:
jotloob

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Are there any rumors or news about SCHNEIDER and RODENSTOCK new digital lenses with bigger image circles than the current series ? ? ?

Jürgen
 
KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Thanks Steve,

I did read and reply to that thread but I guess I read it too fast, but concern still remains for the Hasselblad, since it also seems that has been taking for ever for the H4D 60 to become available, and imply wanted to make sure I don't spend this kinda of money to be outdated in 3 months, mostly just simply because I really want the best money can buy for my photographic journey and business.
 
N

Nick-T

New member
KETCH ROSSI said:
Thanks Steve,

I did read and reply to that thread but I guess I read it too fast, but concern still remains for the Hasselblad, since it also seems that has been taking for ever for the H4D 60 to become available, and imply wanted to make sure I don't spend this kinda of money to be outdated in 3 months, mostly just simply because I really want the best money can buy for my photographic journey and business.
Click to expand...
Hey Ketch
Welcome back :) Email me if you need anything.
FYI it has taken Hasselblad ages to get the 60 out and IMO that was due to working with Dalsa chips when they have a long history (and knowledge of) Kodak sensors.
Nick-T
 
D

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
This is obviously coming from a biased source but I think Phase One's Photokina Guarantee is very strong. It's not rocket science. They know Photokina is coming - you know Photokina is coming and they don't want sales to stop. Therefore they are offering this guarantee to say that if you want to invest now you can do so without hesitation. If something new/bigger/better comes out you'll have the option to upgrade to it (if it makes sense) or not.

A big advantage of this offer is that you'll have a camera immediately (or within a week or two depending on what you're buying and if it's in stock in your country or has to be shipped from DK). Whatever hardware is announced by the major companies at Photokina is VERY unlikely (based on all historical precedence) to be available to ship that day. The P65+ was announced last Photokina to ship by the end of the year (four months after photokina) and they really only started shipping in large quantities two months after that. Items like the LS lenses for the Mamiya system and the H4D-60 took significantly longer to begin shipping.

Also there are always a large volume of orders the week of Photokina so if you decide to wait and then opt to buy a 65+ the supply of that back is very likely to be back ordered almost immediately.

So really the Guarantee is pretty strong incentive to buy now. You are protected.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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D

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Also Dave Gallagher and I will be at Photokina Live Blogging all the developments of Leaf, Mamiya, Phase One, Cambo, Schneider, Canon, LaCie, Eizo and the other brands we sell. So stay tuned. I really believe we will give the very best coverage available from anyone for the medium format market.
 
KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Thanks Nick and Doug,

definitely don't wish to wait till Photokina to buy, s I will be returning to Italy in November, if not earlier, and start shooting away CityScapes, so I like to have some learning time and play time with the System I buy before end.

What I'm now looking to do is get the opportunity to demo out all three systems, H4D 60 , Phase One DF/P65+ and Phase ONe DF/Leaf Aptus II 10 so that I can really make an informed decision, since I will be shooting so much, and literally mapping out almost every town and surely every city in Italy for one of the largest Independent Galleris, if not the largest, in which 50% of all proceeds will go to Charity causes, my point, I need to make absolutely sure that I choose the right System for me, and that I choose not only what fils good in my hands, but what really will offer at the end of the day the best Image quality and largest Prints possible with just simply put, the most stunning detail ever seen.

I don't know any of this systems, even so I played a little few months back with one of the systems Steve at Capture INtegration sold me, and didn't work out, this was the older Mamyia body, and a none + Phase One DB, now things have change very much, with the new body form both manufacturers, SL lenses, etc. so I really look forward to demo each unit and make my purchase.
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, you just never know. Absolutely no one knew about the H4D/40 until is was suddenly here ... or if they knew they kept it pretty darned quiet.

Personally, my hope is for more than just another ultra expensive goose in megapixels.

IMPROVE THE LCD, better ISO performance, faster capture, even better AF, IMPROVE THE LCD, Wi-Fi transport of preview images, some additional speciality lenses to make the systems more versatile, IMPROVE THE LCD.

There is a boatload of improvements I would wish for before another jump in megabytes.

Oh, and while you are at it, improve the LCD :)

-Marc
 
rmueller

rmueller

Well-known member
I heard that Hasselblad might renew the HC 50mm lens and eventually the HC 120 Macro. Well rumor only, but since the HC 50 is on my list i will wait for
photokina.
Regards,
Ralf.
 
KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
fotografz said:
Well, you just never know. Absolutely no one knew about the H4D/40 until is was suddenly here ... or if they knew they kept it pretty darned quiet.

Personally, my hope is for more than just another ultra expensive goose in megapixels.

IMPROVE THE LCD, better ISO performance, faster capture, even better AF, IMPROVE THE LCD, Wi-Fi transport of preview images, some additional speciality lenses to make the systems more versatile, IMPROVE THE LCD.

There is a boatload of improvements I would wish for before another jump in megabytes.

Oh, and while you are at it, improve the LCD :)

-Marc
Click to expand...

Marc,

I think that you forgot one of the most important futures to have a serious need of upgrade.. THE LCD:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

I agree with you on all points, I sure don't need more then 60MP, but I have really hard time liking the LCD displays on the H4D as well as on all P+ DB, while I just love the LCD on the Leaf Aptus II.

As far s WiFi capture goes I'm absolutely with you, as I come to love this on the use of filming with Red which utilized an H263 compression, and fortunately will have a new state of the art WiFi module for my Epic-X cameras, but as the Leaf allows for viewing on the iPhone and iPad, is that not WiFi, or what is it?

 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
Jeeze, how could I have forgot that Ketch ... improve the LCDs on these $20K + cameras so they are as good as a $800. Canon or Nikon.

Don't be so sure about the Leaf screen BTW. Bigger doesn't mean better. None of them are worth a tinker's damn in sunlight.

Maybe there is a technical issue related to speed or something. It is such an obvious issue that it makes me think there is some reason.

The new H4D/60 has a double res LCD, but recent users haven't commented on it that I know of.

-Marc
 
KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
He he..

Yeah it was my understanding that the LCD res on the H4D 60 was better, haven't play with it as of yet, while the gays from Phase One are strongly providing for opportiunities to test out the gear, I have not heard from Hasselblad as of yet for the chance to demo the units.

Even so David has already contacted me via PM, I'm awaiting the opportunity to Demo it along side the Phase One DF / P1 P65+ and Phase One DF / Leaf Aptus II 10.
 
D

dfarkas

Workshop Member
fotografz said:
Jeeze, how could I have forgot that Ketch ... improve the LCDs on these $20K + cameras so they are as good as a $800. Canon or Nikon.

Don't be so sure about the Leaf screen BTW. Bigger doesn't mean better. None of them are worth a tinker's damn in sunlight.

Maybe there is a technical issue related to speed or something. It is such an obvious issue that it makes me think there is some reason.

The new H4D/60 has a double res LCD, but recent users haven't commented on it that I know of.

-Marc
Click to expand...
Marc,

Agreed. We had a customer in the store on Monday who brought his Aptus-II 8 and size doesn't necessarily equal clarity (or viewability in sunlight). Side-by-side with the S2, the difference was striking and that is even before we stated zooming and scrolling around images....

The S2 screen has 460K pixels, same as the "double res" screen on the H4D60. From experience it is perfectly viewable outdoors and the review speed is just about instantaneous, so it can certainly be done on a technical level.

Check out this short video we produced to go over the image playback features on the S2. Make sure to change the video resolution to 1080p. You can get a feel for both the screen quality and the review/zoom speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gITS-bJLTtk

David
 
D

dfarkas

Workshop Member
KETCH ROSSI said:
Marc,

I think that you forgot one of the most important futures to have a serious need of upgrade.. THE LCD:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

I agree with you on all points, I sure don't need more then 60MP, but I have really hard time liking the LCD displays on the H4D as well as on all P+ DB, while I just love the LCD on the Leaf Aptus II.

As far s WiFi capture goes I'm absolutely with you, as I come to love this on the use of filming with Red which utilized an H263 compression, and fortunately will have a new state of the art WiFi module for my Epic-X cameras, but as the Leaf allows for viewing on the iPhone and iPad, is that not WiFi, or what is it?
Click to expand...
Ketch,

My understanding of the Leaf functionality with iPhone/iPad is that it only works if the camera is physically tethered to a computer running Leaf Capture. The iPhone/iPad apps picks up images from the host computer that have been transferred to it.

Yesterday, we tried an EyeFi X2 Pro SD card in one of our S2 bodies and it did in fact transfer images into a hot fold and came up in LR3. Slow as molasses with 75MB DNG files, but it did work. Another option we tried was to write the DNG file to the CF card and a full-res (but compressed) JPG to the SD card. Since the SD card was the EyeFi, it transferred just the JPG to the computer. Still much slower than a hard-wired connection, but it did work faster this way.

Leica has plans for a WiFi module which will replace the left-side strap lug and use a strap as an antennae for addition signal strength. I hope to get more details on this at Photokina when I speak to the product managers.

David
 
KETCH ROSSI

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Nice video on the S2 functions David, adn thanks for the iPad functionality info as well.

I love the Leica S2 and love even more the S2 series lenses, just a joule, but this time around I passed on that particular system do to needs and applications, so I kept the 1D IV, and now trying to make a decision amongst the 60MPM big boys, or at the lowest the 50MO range, but just don't really want to go to the 40MP margin, unless off course I was to literally try out the H4D High ISO and fail in love with it, but this will then leave a problem with image size for extra large prints, main reason for which I look to purchase a 60MP range MF system.
 
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