Pay to upgrade my less than 2 month old Aptus 75s? Charming.The Aptus 75s will fit the hy6 with an adapter plate. No problem there...
The problem is that Leaf won't sell you a separate Hy6 body. You need to purchase the entire system. In your case, you need to upgrade your already purchased 75s. Amazing but true.
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Sinar Hy6 first impressions
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
yaya
Active member
OK maybe it is time for me to clarify the subject of mount changes for the AFi;
1. An Aptus or an Aptus S back in Contax/ Mamiya/ H/ V mount CANNOT be modified to fit the AFi/ Hy6 camera body.
2. There is no "adapter plate" to mount existing Leaf back models onto the AFi/ Hy6 camera body
3. Therefore, anyone who trades an existing Aptus or Aptus S back to an AFi camera system, receives a brand new body with a brand new back attached to it.
4. An AFi body on its own can only be bought in conjunction with buying a complete system (i.e. for backup).
5. An AFi back on its own can only be bought in conjunction with buying a complete system (i.e. for backup).
6. The AFi back can be fitted onto an RZ via an adapter designed and made by Leaf
7. The AFi back can be fitted onto any 4X5 camera via a standard Graflok adapter designed and made by Leaf
8. Alpa, Cambo and several other LF manufacturers are working on their own adapters that will allow an AFi back to be fitted on their cameras.
Yair
1. An Aptus or an Aptus S back in Contax/ Mamiya/ H/ V mount CANNOT be modified to fit the AFi/ Hy6 camera body.
2. There is no "adapter plate" to mount existing Leaf back models onto the AFi/ Hy6 camera body
3. Therefore, anyone who trades an existing Aptus or Aptus S back to an AFi camera system, receives a brand new body with a brand new back attached to it.
4. An AFi body on its own can only be bought in conjunction with buying a complete system (i.e. for backup).
5. An AFi back on its own can only be bought in conjunction with buying a complete system (i.e. for backup).
6. The AFi back can be fitted onto an RZ via an adapter designed and made by Leaf
7. The AFi back can be fitted onto any 4X5 camera via a standard Graflok adapter designed and made by Leaf
8. Alpa, Cambo and several other LF manufacturers are working on their own adapters that will allow an AFi back to be fitted on their cameras.
Yair
Thanks for the clear explanation Yair. It is basically what I was told by Leaf, and reported here. The thing that will be important to me now is the path from my new Aptus 75s to an AFi.
One VERY important piece of GOOD news I didn't know is the ability to use a AFi back on a RZ via a Leaf designed and made adapter. Cudos to leaf for that. I have an entire RZ system and use a lot of it's speciality lenses and adapters to solve commercail assignments.
One VERY important piece of GOOD news I didn't know is the ability to use a AFi back on a RZ via a Leaf designed and made adapter. Cudos to leaf for that. I have an entire RZ system and use a lot of it's speciality lenses and adapters to solve commercail assignments.
Graham Mitchell
New member
See yaya's post
Like I said, the mount on an Aptus 75s CAN be changed ( Mamiya mount to Hasselblad V for $2,100.) , but it cannot be changed for mounting on the AFi ... which is basically what I said in the missing second half of your edited quote about "my being surprised since the whole back had to swapped for a new one". That is only true for the AFi ... which is the "Surprise" given I could do it before if I chose to.
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R
rainer-v
Guest
would be interesting if there are real technical or mechanical reasons behind or if its just "money making". sinar can use also the same backs just with a new adapter. so why not leaf?
S
Samuel Axelsson
Guest
Because it's "money making" and "customer closing"
yaya
Active member
Leaf (and Phase) choose to build specific mounts for different cameras for technical reasons:
1. Safer, more reliable electronic contacts integration (only one set of contacts between the camera and back)
2. Less chances for optical misalignment due to user error (over tightening of screws etc.) This also means that if there's a problem (that is not related to a viewfinder/ focusing screen issue), we will take full responsibility for re-adjusting the sensor
3. Each of the 5 mounts we currently make can be fitted on several other platforms without having to un-screw the mount which reduces the risk of damage.
4. Service: the Aptus backs are designed in a modular way so they can be serviced and repaired by our dealers, therefore the sensor is built into the mount and the rest of the electronics can be swapped by the dealer. This reduces the turnaround time to a minimum (less than 2 HOURS in some cases).
There is also the marketing aspect: the demand for an interchangeable mounting system is low enough (I know it may look different from reading forums) is low enough not justify the investment in R&D.
Specifically for the AFi there is also the aesthetic side: The AFi back was designed to fit the AFi body with continuos lines, colours and special coating.
Yair
1. Safer, more reliable electronic contacts integration (only one set of contacts between the camera and back)
2. Less chances for optical misalignment due to user error (over tightening of screws etc.) This also means that if there's a problem (that is not related to a viewfinder/ focusing screen issue), we will take full responsibility for re-adjusting the sensor
3. Each of the 5 mounts we currently make can be fitted on several other platforms without having to un-screw the mount which reduces the risk of damage.
4. Service: the Aptus backs are designed in a modular way so they can be serviced and repaired by our dealers, therefore the sensor is built into the mount and the rest of the electronics can be swapped by the dealer. This reduces the turnaround time to a minimum (less than 2 HOURS in some cases).
There is also the marketing aspect: the demand for an interchangeable mounting system is low enough (I know it may look different from reading forums) is low enough not justify the investment in R&D.
Specifically for the AFi there is also the aesthetic side: The AFi back was designed to fit the AFi body with continuos lines, colours and special coating.
Yair
T
thsinar
Guest
Yaya,
1. We don't have particular problems with electronic contacts integration and reliability is not an issue, as far a Sinarbacks are concerned.
2. There is no way that screwing tighter does change the alignment. If you would try screwing a Sinar adapter plate you would notice that the screw "fits" and can't be over-tightened. At least with Sinarback, this is also not an issue and have never had a customer having a focus problem due to this.
3. Sinar does also take full responsibility for sensor misalignment, with the same exceptions concerning viewfinder/focusing screen.
Best regards,
Thierry
1. We don't have particular problems with electronic contacts integration and reliability is not an issue, as far a Sinarbacks are concerned.
2. There is no way that screwing tighter does change the alignment. If you would try screwing a Sinar adapter plate you would notice that the screw "fits" and can't be over-tightened. At least with Sinarback, this is also not an issue and have never had a customer having a focus problem due to this.
3. Sinar does also take full responsibility for sensor misalignment, with the same exceptions concerning viewfinder/focusing screen.
Best regards,
Thierry
Yair,
With all due respect to your marketing research, there are those of us out here using Leaf who would welcome the ability to change adapters and use different cameras. Perhaps those of us on the forums are simply more vocal and not representative of the mainstream. You would know better than I. Nevertheless, as a Leaf user I can't help feeling a bit disappointed that I may need to switch to Sinar in order to shoot the cameras of my choice. I am completely satisfied with my 75S in all other respects.
With all due respect to your marketing research, there are those of us out here using Leaf who would welcome the ability to change adapters and use different cameras. Perhaps those of us on the forums are simply more vocal and not representative of the mainstream. You would know better than I. Nevertheless, as a Leaf user I can't help feeling a bit disappointed that I may need to switch to Sinar in order to shoot the cameras of my choice. I am completely satisfied with my 75S in all other respects.
yaya
Active member
As I said the number of people asking for this (not the ones that already own Leaf but those who are looking to buy) is very small and does not justify the investment in changing the current concept. The other aspects I mentioned simply weigh more in the big picture.
David, what are your 2-3-4 cameras of choice?
An AFi back will fit the AFi body, RZ, 4X5 (Graflok) and ALPA/Cambo/Linhof etc. wouldn't this range be wide/ versatile enough?
And by the way Thierry I did not try to insinuate that Sinar are having problems and your stats are after all yours.
BR
Yair
T
thsinar
Guest
It's alright, Yaya.
But since your statements may suggest to some that by using adapters you might have connection/integration problems, and that when screwing an adapter on its place you might not be in the focus plane, I was thinking that it needs a reply and that this is not at all the case with Sinar, and never happened for what I have experienced since adapters exist.
My guess is that it is the same with Hasselblad, but can't speak for them.
Also, according to our statistic and research on people telling that they are willing to change to another camera platform one day or another and want free choice (not those who eventually DO change) is very nearly 50% of the potential buyers, not speaking about the forums.
Best regards,
Thierry
But since your statements may suggest to some that by using adapters you might have connection/integration problems, and that when screwing an adapter on its place you might not be in the focus plane, I was thinking that it needs a reply and that this is not at all the case with Sinar, and never happened for what I have experienced since adapters exist.
My guess is that it is the same with Hasselblad, but can't speak for them.
Also, according to our statistic and research on people telling that they are willing to change to another camera platform one day or another and want free choice (not those who eventually DO change) is very nearly 50% of the potential buyers, not speaking about the forums.
Best regards,
Thierry
A WORD FROM AN END-USER, (deepest apologies for the length):
There seems to be two schools of thought that are emerging as a central decision each end-user has to weigh against their photographic needs.
MORE ADAPTABLE:
Backs such as Sinar (including an Hy6 compatible back), and Hasselblad CF backs that can be used across a fairly wide array of MF cameras via a system of adapters. Why would this appeal to some users? I would suspect there are two key reasons:
1) because a fair amount of photographers have more than one existing MF system, and buying individual "dedicated" backs for each is an expensive proposition. For example, I have always had a 645 (focal plane shutter such as the Contax 645 or Mamiya 645AFD-II) , 6X6 and 6X7 leaf shutter system ( like my Hasselblad 503CW and Mamiya RZ Pro-II) in my gear vault . 645 for mobility and location, 6X6 and 6X7 for studio and some of the speciality application accessories or lenses each system offers to solve a variety of problems. In my experience, no one MF system solves all application needs, especially if you shoot both professionally and personally.
2) the MF business is in flux with some systems being discontinued, while others move forward with new approaches based more on digital capture than anything to do with film.
MORE INTEGRATED:
to one degree or another, "dedicated" backs such as the Hasselblad HD cameras, Phase One backs, and most Leaf backs including their AFi with their dedicated mounts.
In my opinion these will tend to appeal to those with a more singular approach to their photography ... meaning they are primarily a product specialist, landscape shooter, architectural photographer and so on. I also suspect this encompasses the majority of commercial shooters that use a Mf camera and perhaps a view camera with the same back.
What Hasselblad has shown is there are extended benefits of this "integrated" more DSLR type philosophy. How far this will eventually go, and how beneficial it will be to the end user, has yet to be fully explored. In my opinion, Hasselblad has a clear lead in this approach with ever increasing uses of capture data at the software stage ... but it's a lead that is at best temporary.
THE FUTURE AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE:
What is not known (at least by me) is how sophisticated a cross platform system of adapters can be in sync with each different camera system's growing complexity of command & control ... and software utilization of camera system data ... all while increasing stability of operation and consistency of image quality.
One thing I can say with some certainty is that I, for one, cannot continue to fund digital capture from multiple platforms. Good, bad or indifferent, I have gravitated to Hasselblad by default as they were "first in, best dressed" to solve my photographic needs, and allowed me to use a vast collection of Zeiss lenses I already had collected. It wasn't without it's "growing pains" to do this, but it is pretty much a done deal.
This leaves me with a complete Mamiya system (645 & RZ) with an Aptus 75s back ... that I am waiting to see what provisions Leaf will provide me to migrate to the AFi (mostly based on cost). That an adapter for my RZ will be available is excellent news because that system's worth is in the using, not in the selling.
THE END-USER ALWAYS GETS THE LAST WORD:
One last word on behalf of an end user ... namely me since I can't speak for anyone else: This entire area of photography is quickly becoming a rarified
domain of the endlessly wealthy ... not just because of the increasing cost of new MF digital camera systems (proven by the price sheets for the Hy6) ... not just because the upgrade policies have become more aggressively priced ... not because some (not all) warranty extensions have come close to "extortion racketeering" ... but also because of the ancillary expenses associated with mega digital capture. Everything is expanding at an exponential rate in power, sophistication and cost. Not that one need keep up with the Jones', but one has to to keep relatively current based on the competitive marketplace ... it is still a publish or perish world out there ... where speed, quality and price still rule with an iron fist wielded by ever savvy buyers, art directors and even the computer literate public.
There seems to be two schools of thought that are emerging as a central decision each end-user has to weigh against their photographic needs.
MORE ADAPTABLE:
Backs such as Sinar (including an Hy6 compatible back), and Hasselblad CF backs that can be used across a fairly wide array of MF cameras via a system of adapters. Why would this appeal to some users? I would suspect there are two key reasons:
1) because a fair amount of photographers have more than one existing MF system, and buying individual "dedicated" backs for each is an expensive proposition. For example, I have always had a 645 (focal plane shutter such as the Contax 645 or Mamiya 645AFD-II) , 6X6 and 6X7 leaf shutter system ( like my Hasselblad 503CW and Mamiya RZ Pro-II) in my gear vault . 645 for mobility and location, 6X6 and 6X7 for studio and some of the speciality application accessories or lenses each system offers to solve a variety of problems. In my experience, no one MF system solves all application needs, especially if you shoot both professionally and personally.
2) the MF business is in flux with some systems being discontinued, while others move forward with new approaches based more on digital capture than anything to do with film.
MORE INTEGRATED:
to one degree or another, "dedicated" backs such as the Hasselblad HD cameras, Phase One backs, and most Leaf backs including their AFi with their dedicated mounts.
In my opinion these will tend to appeal to those with a more singular approach to their photography ... meaning they are primarily a product specialist, landscape shooter, architectural photographer and so on. I also suspect this encompasses the majority of commercial shooters that use a Mf camera and perhaps a view camera with the same back.
What Hasselblad has shown is there are extended benefits of this "integrated" more DSLR type philosophy. How far this will eventually go, and how beneficial it will be to the end user, has yet to be fully explored. In my opinion, Hasselblad has a clear lead in this approach with ever increasing uses of capture data at the software stage ... but it's a lead that is at best temporary.
THE FUTURE AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE:
What is not known (at least by me) is how sophisticated a cross platform system of adapters can be in sync with each different camera system's growing complexity of command & control ... and software utilization of camera system data ... all while increasing stability of operation and consistency of image quality.
One thing I can say with some certainty is that I, for one, cannot continue to fund digital capture from multiple platforms. Good, bad or indifferent, I have gravitated to Hasselblad by default as they were "first in, best dressed" to solve my photographic needs, and allowed me to use a vast collection of Zeiss lenses I already had collected. It wasn't without it's "growing pains" to do this, but it is pretty much a done deal.
This leaves me with a complete Mamiya system (645 & RZ) with an Aptus 75s back ... that I am waiting to see what provisions Leaf will provide me to migrate to the AFi (mostly based on cost). That an adapter for my RZ will be available is excellent news because that system's worth is in the using, not in the selling.
THE END-USER ALWAYS GETS THE LAST WORD:
One last word on behalf of an end user ... namely me since I can't speak for anyone else: This entire area of photography is quickly becoming a rarified
domain of the endlessly wealthy ... not just because of the increasing cost of new MF digital camera systems (proven by the price sheets for the Hy6) ... not just because the upgrade policies have become more aggressively priced ... not because some (not all) warranty extensions have come close to "extortion racketeering" ... but also because of the ancillary expenses associated with mega digital capture. Everything is expanding at an exponential rate in power, sophistication and cost. Not that one need keep up with the Jones', but one has to to keep relatively current based on the competitive marketplace ... it is still a publish or perish world out there ... where speed, quality and price still rule with an iron fist wielded by ever savvy buyers, art directors and even the computer literate public.
T
thsinar
Guest
Yair,
My MF cameras are the Contax 645 and RZ (and soon Alpa) which, to the best of my knowledge, cannot both be used via adapter with the 75S. It is good to know that the RZ can be used with the AFi back and that is an option I will seriously consider depending on the upgrade path (translated cost).
yaya
Active member
Hey Marc don't give up just yet!
http://www.eco-digital.com/products/products/adapters.html
Check the Contax<>RZ plate...rotating and works quite well. Only difficulty may be in communicating with ECO, but it is worth trying:
Digital Arts Institute LTD.,（D&A）
Tac Sakuramata
5-12-14, Toyokawa, Ibaraki-city, Osaka 567-0057, Japan
Tel.072-643-9090 Fax.072-643-9738
[email protected]
URL. http://www.eco-digital.com/
Yair,
I'm aware of the eco-digital adapter but, as you say, communication with them is problematic. Neither I nor Steve Hendrix (who made the effort on my behalf) had any luck with them. I will reserve my decision until I have the opportunity to try the AFi and evaluate the costs. Patience is not my strong suit
I'm aware of the eco-digital adapter but, as you say, communication with them is problematic. Neither I nor Steve Hendrix (who made the effort on my behalf) had any luck with them. I will reserve my decision until I have the opportunity to try the AFi and evaluate the costs. Patience is not my strong suit
yaya
Active member
Fair enough and sorry for mixing up the namesYair,
I'm aware of the eco-digital adapter but, as you say, communication with them is problematic. Neither I nor Steve Hendrix (who made the effort on my behalf) had any luck with them. I will reserve my decision until I have the opportunity to try the AFi and evaluate the costs. Patience is not my strong suit