Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 80

Thread: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    I had the opportunity to play with a Sinar Hy6 on the weekend. I have been looking forward to seeing this camera because i have a Leaf back. I am considering what my long term medium format system should be.<p> I wont be buying an Hy6 or an AFi - unless a few things happen. Firsty, the autofocus is clunky, slow and loud compared to Hasselblad. Secondly, the Sinar software is crap - and that is saying sometheing because Leaf is very ordinary. Thirdly i see no reason to switch from H series lenses to Schneider or Roliie - in fact the opposite.

    i am surprised by my initial response to this much anticipated alternative system - because I really wanted out of Hasselblad. If it wasn't for my love of the Leaf on the Alpa - i would exit out of MFDB completely. i am now thinking that it might be more worthwhile for me to try out a 39 megapixel Hasselblad back. that way I keep all my H glass and V glass and let Sinar/leaf/PhaseOne develop over time or not.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    I really want there to be an alternative to the Hasselblad as well. I am disappointed by the prospects based on your conclusions.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Mark - all the digi backs make great files. Each manufacturer has its own 'strategy' and approach. Each digi back has its strengths and weaknesses. But I am not buying into a digi back - I am buying into a digi back which connects to a camera body which connects to lenses. As important - is also hwo teh file is extracted and how easilly and flexibly the databack manufacturers allow for the data to be ported out to post shot software.

    I like to take a wholistic view. how does the whole thing work together from my point of view based on my use age preferences.

    In Australia - Sinar and leaf are going to ask buyers to pay $45,000 or there abouts for a 33 megapixel back a camera body and one lens. Sinar at least allows the user to buy multiple back adaptor to fit on pretty much any camera body any time - at a cost.

    but Sinar doesnt even produce DNG files and its native software - capture shop is pathetic. The back manufacturers have by and large hidden behind the studio pro need for tethered shooting - since Adobe doesnt support this - yet. Yes there are workarounds for Sinar to get DNG files from people who have written teh code to do it - but WHY should someone shell out tens of thousands of dollars to a company whose basic software doesn't allow for basic workflow functionaity? NO way would a pro buy into this as it standsand thei rsales figures show it.

    Leaf and Sinar share the same chip - at least Leaf allows for DNG files and Adobe etc open their native files . but Leaf want you to switch to the AFi adaptor plate if you up want to use an Afi. What if you don't like the Afi? What if Alpa dont make an Afi adptor plate? What about hooking a Leaf to different systems like MF view cameras? the H series or v series adaptor is the industry standard.

    I think that the tethered shooting thing is just another hook into allowing these companies to dodge the hard questions about their software inadequacies.

    Then you go to camera bodies. the H series camera was brought out years ago. I have not even had a firmware upgrade because I haven't needed one. Hasselblad want you to go to your dealer to get it done - at least Afi/Hy 6 you can do it yourself . BUT the autofocus - WOW ..maybe I had a bad example maybe they can fix it..a lot of maybes for a hugely expensive camera I reckon - when I KNOW that H series cameras work very well. Didnt do the Hy6 any help that we were shooting and using the H series with Leaf back at the same time as Hy6 with Sinar back. People complain about the Leaf back LCD not being bright enough - WOW the Sinar LCD is tiny and useless totally out doors.

    regarding ergonomics - I wanted to like the Hy6 it looks beautiful - I agree that it is like holding a V series Hasselblad - I didnt get to test it with the prism finder maybe that will help. the hand grip changeability in angle is a nice gimmick. the body 'felt' much more fragile than my old H1. the plastic bits were plastic looking more like a good looking Mamiya than an upmarket Hasselblad.

    sigh ...I guess it is early days for the camera and maybe when the actual sale ready cameras are out the new Sinar software ( expose - which they cant get to work as I write 0 will work and the workflow will be better - a whole lot of maybe could be should be hopefully talk though ) so in conclusion just to add some colour - and since I am NOT a working pro and therefore dont give one flying toss about offending any of these companies - as things stand Sinar and Leaf cameras - NOT MY MONEY! LOL

    then you get to lenses - man Iliek a lens to feel liek a lens. I expect a lens that costs 4-5,000 dollars to be set in brass and to feel solid. Yes the H series has the aperture blades in the lens body and therefore should be heavier - but just do yourself a favour and pick up a Fujiblad lens feel the quality. i have no doubt that if Schneiders lens range is like their 80 - the take up will be very low.

    Ok the Hy6/Afi will shoot to 1000 th of a second - thats about the only advantage I can see. Also the Hy6/AFi - is already built for a 6x6 full frame build. I could care less.

  4. #4
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Peter,
    Thanks for sharing your impressions. If the Hy6 doesn't offer significant advantages over my Contax/Aptus kit it doesn't look like I'll be making any changes for a while. I agree with you that it's the entire system, including software, that has to work well together. I do hope they get their act together as it's nice to have viable options.

  5. #5
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    26

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    i am really thinking about just buyng a new back for my contax 645. afi did not impress me enough to shell out 30k

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    PS i would like to be able to correct some of my ( many typos) but there is no edit button? So please accept my apologies for disgusting spelling - my typing isn't the best. i will be extra cautious in future. -

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Peter and David.. I agree with you both. I really like the Hasselblad H2 with the Leaf Aptus 65 back.. at least in terms of image quality. I also think the aptus LCD is good. The issue of being able to see it in bright light is overcome by adding the hood I purchased a few months back. The issue that just kills me is that I cannot use the 28mm HC lens and the same will likely be true of future lens releases.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Firsty, the autofocus is clunky, slow and loud compared to Hasselblad.
    Strange, some users have reported the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Secondly, the Sinar software is crap - and that is saying sometheing because Leaf is very ordinary.
    Could you elaborate? By the way, the new software (Exposure) will be out soon and it will use the DNG raw format, which means you can use the raw developer of your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Thirdly i see no reason to switch from H series lenses to Schneider or Roliie - in fact the opposite.
    Once again, can you elaborate?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Relative to my H1 ( the camera system I previously desperately wished to DUMP) the example of the Hy6 I got to use in a side by side comparison had relatively
    1. Slower focusing
    2. Louder focusing
    3. more searching when focusing

    Sinar software is rubbish - I take it you use Capture 'Stop' - do you like my pun? - - as well as other software - what is your opinion? Regarding 'Exposure' as we speak it is vapourware - true or false? I mean allowing for DNG - is a big development for Sinar ...riiight??

    Compared to my LF digi spec Schneider glass - this Schneider 80mm is down market in feel and build - if you get a chance compare the H series lenses or Contax series lenses and you will see what I mean. This is a build quality comment. I wont speak about image making quality - I didn't test for this under controlled circumstances - and I will probably never get to that stage - i couldnt be bothered wasting my time.

    All this from someone who WANTED to switch to Sinar ( because of adaptor plate switchability - is gold for me) and also WANTED to switch OUT of Hasselblad. if anythign I was biased for Hy6.

    Anyway ..as I said things may improve quickly...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Sinar software is rubbish - I take it you use Capture 'Stop' - do you like my pun? -
    Did you have problems with it? The current version is very stable for me. Never had a crash.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    - as well as other software - what is your opinion? Regarding 'Exposure' as we speak it is vapourware - true or false? I mean allowing for DNG - is a big development for Sinar ...riiight??
    It already works and some users have the beta version already. I just heard the public release will come out next month.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Compared to my LF digi spec Schneider glass - this Schneider 80mm is down market in feel and build
    I haven't seen or touched that particular lens. The Rollei lenses I already own have exceptional build and feel so I am surprised. If you judged the whole lens lineup from one lens you may not have an accurate impression.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    whatever man...

  12. #12
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    26

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    i have to agree on the lens issue. the 2.8/80 schneider that came with afi looked and felt really crappy compared to older rolleiflex 6008 lenses. i do not think that optically it was in any way inferior to the manual focus lens (in fact, the rep lied that new lenses are made to higher tolerances), but the crappy feel really was a put-off.

  13. #13
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    394
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    I've got the Schneider 80mm AF lens and have to agree that I was initially put off by the noisy sound of the AF motor which lead me to believe it was similar to my cheapest EOS lenses. The feel of the focus ring movement also seems cheap especially when I compare it to one of my Leica lenses which is what I had in mind when I bought the Rollei. The 6008 AF body seems kind of wonky too. Some cheapo plastic stuff here and there, plus a lot of noise. Wow that mirror makes a wallop.

    It's actually a very robust lens, with very very good optics. I'm just so impressed with the optics, I have forgotten about the noise. I really made a turnaround on the whole camera after I started to use it, and had a chance to really look over the results.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    EH21 - i think you described the working action and sound effects perfectly. I am sure that Schneider know how to make good optics - perhaps they need to hire a sound engineer to reduce noise. - and given that one of my hobbies is toolmaking - I am suspicious of grinding sounds...

  15. #15
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Certainly leaving room for Phase/Mamiya

    but, as DividK says, why change..

    my Contax 645 Phase 45+ hummin' along. Likely stay here for quite a while. Just don't see anything that will match much less dominate;

    FFor first time buyers, well that's a different story..

    even I was kind of rootin' for the H6Y (or is it HY6???)

    :-)

  16. #16
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Peter, were you using Capture Shop with OSX Leopard? That is not a supported combination yet. Just a thought.
    Last edited by Graham Mitchell; 4th December 2007 at 19:38.

  17. #17
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I really want there to be an alternative to the Hasselblad as well. I am disappointed by the prospects based on your conclusions.
    Mark
    Didn't you once HAVE an alternative to the hassey?

    I believe it was called Contax...... :-)

    but then again, arent we all con...taxes?

    Victor

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Graham, I was using on TIger. I think that all manufacturer's software 'works' in some shape or fashion. I am sure that when 'Expose' is in finished form it will work even better. However a cursory investigation of the basic functionality of the software ( in comparison say to Capture One or even Lightroom ) leaves much to be desired from my point of view. Still, that wasn't the deal breaker for me.

    I am comparing the top line Sinar back on the new kid on the block camera body versus the functionality that my existing back and camera body deliver. My main use is hand held or tripod mounted occasionally on the Street or outdoors.

    The H series camera works better ( for me).

    Simple as that - I found my own initial impressions to be surprising because I wanted to buy into AFi as I already have a Leaf back.

    I just had the Australian rep for Hasselblad in my offices today with their new HD3 and their 'alpha' edition software which will replace Flexcolour..and all I can say is that I was very impressed - for the workflow I like employing - there is no comparison with other fully integrated systems.

    I can use my CF adaptor and use all the Zeiss lenses I want to from V mount days or the fast autofocus lenses from Fuji/blad - which in many guises I prefer - as they deliver a rendering similar to my apo Leica lenses - high contrast and lots of POP. the new 28 is pretty impressive.

    For me the decision was pretty complicated because a lot of the gear I use is in H mount - not only the leaf back but also the Alpa gear I like. The Hasselblad backs have come a long way in the last 2 years and I see no great advantage in owning a Leaf or anyone else back anymore over the 39 megapixel Hasselblad.

    I am relieved that my investigations have come to an end...

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I had the opportunity to play with a Sinar Hy6 on the weekend. I have been looking forward to seeing this camera because i have a Leaf back. I am considering what my long term medium format system should be.<p> I wont be buying an Hy6 or an AFi - unless a few things happen. Firsty, the autofocus is clunky, slow and loud compared to Hasselblad. Secondly, the Sinar software is crap - and that is saying sometheing because Leaf is very ordinary. Thirdly i see no reason to switch from H series lenses to Schneider or Roliie - in fact the opposite.

    i am surprised by my initial response to this much anticipated alternative system - because I really wanted out of Hasselblad. If it wasn't for my love of the Leaf on the Alpa - i would exit out of MFDB completely. i am now thinking that it might be more worthwhile for me to try out a 39 megapixel Hasselblad back. that way I keep all my H glass and V glass and let Sinar/leaf/PhaseOne develop over time or not.
    I tend to agree with you completely pete. I tried the sinar emotion and the software before going with leaf - just wasn't what i wanted and the deler was no help. the leaf file, on the other hand, was exactly what i was looking for.
    The problems arive though with the full package. the leaf software has been a pita. as for the camera platform, i went with contax. i don't regret the choice, but the fact that the camera is a dead end and taht end is getting closer and closer, an unbelievable battery hog, rentability is becomming harder and harder and the only zoom for the contax is not a stellar performer at a stagering price (if you can even find one) is driving me with dragging feet to decide on a future path.
    and this is where hasselblad just makes since to me, body, lenses, back aqnd software all working together in a system that is there now, working, not beta bs, but tested to the bone. i am sick of the problems the mf/db world has put me against. for the money i'm shelling out it shoud all work. and if the hassy, after i've tested it (hopefully the last time i'll have to do this) is what it seems to be; a real working, upgradable, rentable, bombproof system with good glass...i'm in. I know the glass and i've used the h2, so i'm halfwy there already.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Check it out Kip - would be interested in your thoughts on the matter of Hassleblad. I was set to downsize to a 22 meapixel back - until I saw the crops you can extract from the big boy. For a landscape shooter it is awesome to have that 39 megapixel firepower and resolution. i dont know if a studio shooter actually needs that kind of megapixel count. I am slo considering an X5 scanner - something I have lusted after for a few years. The Imacon boys have it down pat these days to a one button operation. I have been doing some research into the Hasselblad 3F file thing they have going in conjunction with the scanner - very interesting.

  21. #21
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Interesting to see two Leaf shooters considering the switch to Hasselblad. Well, someone's got to keep the economy running I'm still happy with my Contax kit and am heavily invested in lenses, including the 45-90 zoom which I'm very happy with and is probably my most used lens in studio. If you guys do decide to switch it would be interesting to know the cost. I'm guessing it won't be cheap.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Interesting to see two Leaf shooters considering the switch to Hasselblad. Well, someone's got to keep the economy running I'm still happy with my Contax kit and am heavily invested in lenses, including the 45-90 zoom which I'm very happy with and is probably my most used lens in studio. If you guys do decide to switch it would be interesting to know the cost. I'm guessing it won't be cheap.
    you guessed right, the switch is very good for the economy : D
    for me it depends on what i can get out of my leaf. the trade in policy from hassy doesn't make sense for me. i'm hoping to get a lot more than they are offering me. if i can, i'll probably fly to the states and either buy from steve hendrix or a dealer in nyc. the euro is so strong that i save big time with the exchange + the price difference (if it costs 20,000 euros here it costs 20,000 $ there) so i save double. and that's what makes it worth the change for me.
    as for contax, i like the system and the lenses, but i never wanted to pay top dollar for the 35mm and the zoom for a system i knew was withering away. battery consumption is ridiculous, i need at least three bodies because the rent places don't carry them any longer and the components for the body aren't made any more...if one goes down i probably can't get it fixed anytime soon so i need a back up. with hassy it's the other way around. everybody on the planet carries them.
    if i can't get a good price for the leaf i'll trade up for an s back and either go with an hy6 (but i have grave doubts about it. i'm not into beta, bleeding edge camera equipment), the new mamiya when it comes out this spring or the hassy.
    all i know is the next move i make will be (hopefully) the last. i'd like to find a system that works like my nikon and be done with it.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    The total cost for a 39 megapixel back and a new dedicated body as well as the new 28mm from blad is a tad more than I paid for the Aptus 75. After trade in of the Leaf back and my old H1 the changeover becomes less than half of that cost. I have therefore 'lost' about 40% of the money I paid for the Leaf in changeover before depreciation. However 20% of that 'loss' was the GST tax paid on initial purchase.

    Since I depreciate the Leaf back over the 18 months in direct proportion to useful life, according to tax rules here in Australia over the period I have owned it - the economic cost of the changeover after tax becomes less than 25% of the original outlay.

    My peace of mind into a settled system whose lenses and mounts I already use and own is worth that 'cost' to me.

    Furthermore, I have no doubt that Phase One and Leaf and Sinar will come out with magazine articles suggesting that the testing proved without a doubt that their backs are better than Hasselblad on this and that measure.

    Not one of these competing manufacturers offers a complete integrated system that works. Everyone of these manufacturers is cobbling together a makeshift system and/or clunky software. -

    Thus ends my care for further investigation into MFDB systems and my patient waiting for vapourware ...

  24. #24
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Kip,
    Thanks for sharing your thinking on this. Don't know what your schedule for coming to the states is but Steve Hendrix is doing a Southeast tour next week (wish he was coming to Florida) where you can compare the Hasselblad H3DII, the Leaf AFi7 and the Sinar Hy6. BTW, I can't believe the cost differential between buying locally and buying in the states... it's staggering.

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Kip,
    Thanks for sharing your thinking on this. Don't know what your schedule for coming to the states is but Steve Hendrix is doing a Southeast tour next week (wish he was coming to Florida) where you can compare the Hasselblad H3DII, the Leaf AFi7 and the Sinar Hy6. BTW, I can't believe the cost differential between buying locally and buying in the states... it's staggering.
    it would be great if someone could actually report on the three after using them. i'll be testing (the middle of january at the earliest as i've been informed) the h3d II 31 with the 50-110mm and the leaf afi6 wih the a65s back and a schneider 60-140mm varigon (just the lens costs €4,600 = $6,725!!!). but in the end with the leaf upgrade it's less expensive to go the afi route here. i'm going to use the a65s on an h2 as well and if i don't see a really good argument for either of the new systems i'll just go that route and be done with it for another couple of years.
    what i don't understand is why a trade in to get into another system is so much less interesting than a trade up. seems like these companies would be fighting tooth and nail to get the few idiots willing to spend this kind of cash on their side.

  26. #26
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,202
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    496

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    However 20% of that 'loss' was the GST tax paid on initial purchase....
    Peter:

    In Canada, if you trade an item in on another, you only pay the GST on the difference. Also, if you are a business, the GST can be deducted from your GST return/remittance. I though it would be similar in other countries with consumption taxes.

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Rob that is correct. btw there is a lot of sophistry in my bean counter response -after the fact justfication of buying what is in fact a folly. Oh well teh markets have been kind to this hedge hog this year - fso why not. -

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Well, I did report the same basic findings after a demonstration of the Leaf AFi in my studio. However, I also did do a controlled shoot. After we did the demo with the AFi and the rep left, I shot the same set up with my H3D/39. Long story short: that little demo saved me a bundle of cash. No Afi in my future either.

    Hasselblad is relentlessly improving the speed and functionality of my H cameras ... 2 firmware/software upgrades in the past 2 months ... and as stated above, have come a hell of a long way in 2 years. More to come really soon. As a total system it's approaching the DSLRs in integrated performance. So much so that I now am considering canceling my order for the $8,000. Canon 1DsMKII and just sticking with a 1DMKIII for fast, super high ISO candid work.

    The H3s are my primary money makers. They will continue to do so.

    Peter, that scanner is GREAT! I have the 949 which is essentially the same.
    It scans so fast that it's scary.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Marc - the scanner is something I have been thinking about for a long time ( as you know). The functionality and speed is pretty good as you say - I can now start shooting film again...whilst preserving a digi workflow where it matters. I am afraid I will become a boring forum person though as I dont think I will buying any more camera gear (except for maybe one or two R primes) in the foreseeable future! LOL

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Not boring IF you post some photos Peter. The hub-bub about new gear will die down as these decisions are made. I made mine also, so I've got nothing more to add either ... except using the damned stuff : =)

  31. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, I did report the same basic findings after a demonstration of the Leaf AFi in my studio. However, I also did do a controlled shoot. After we did the demo with the AFi and the rep left, I shot the same set up with my H3D/39. Long story short: that little demo saved me a bundle of cash. No Afi in my future either.
    marc, can you tell me a litle about the dfferences yo experienced in your demo? af speed and accuracy, sharpness & detail (which lens did you use on te afi?),etc?

    thanks, kipling

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Sorry Kipling, I just saw your post.

    In a nutshell, the Leaf rep shot a simple still life set-up in my studio with their top end Hy6 (AFi-7 w/33 meg Dalsa sensor) with the Schneider 80/2.8AF mounted to my studio stand, and we goofed around with it for awhile. ISO 50 using Profoto Strobes in Plume softbox using a Profoto D-4 generator. All very consistent and repeatable. Before he left, I downloaded those RAW files to a hard drive ... but left the set-up and strobe settings exactly as we shot it.

    After he left, I then fired up the Hasselblad H3D/39 and shot the set-up again with H/C 80/2.8, camera on stand without changing anything. I processed both as DNGs and brought them into Adobe Camera RAW as shot, did nothing to them and opened them as 100%, 16 bit tiffs. The H3D shots were actually a tad better exhibiting better control of specular highlights and slightly less CA. The CA was easy to correct in post. In short, not any sort of significant difference, but unfortunately "significant" was exactly what I was looking for.... especially from the lenses.

    In fact, the only significant thing I experienced was the AFi pricing : -(

    As far as handling, I prefer the H cameras for their versatility as a high resolution tethered studio unit then as a fast DSLR like unit for people and event work.

    However, I wasn't looking to replace the H system ... I was after a replacement for my Mamiya RZ Pro-II with an Aptus 75s back that I use in studio.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    "significant" was exactly what I was looking for.... especially from the lenses.
    Didn't you only test one lens, in one setup?

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Yes, one lens, one studio set-up ... also shot other random shots to feel the handling and AF which also were not significant IMO ... in fact less than significant for my needs and use.

    Like Peter, I really was hoping this was going to be the answer. In my case to replace all the Mamiya RZ and maybe even Hasselblad V gear. I sure the heck am not blindly loyal to anything if something else will give me an edge or provide something visibly better, or in-line with what I subjectively feel is better.

    Conversely, I won't bail on a system that's working just fine as is, and isn't surpassed in a significant way ... if that sucker had a 54X54 sensor THAT would be significant and be of great interest. But it doesn't, and what it is isn't worth the financial flogging I'd take to go there to gain absolutely nothing what-so-ever.

    Frankly, I was bummed.

  35. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Sorry Kipling, I just saw your post.

    In a nutshell, the Leaf rep shot a simple still life set-up in my studio with their top end Hy6 (AFi-7 w/33 meg Dalsa sensor) with the Schneider 80/2.8AF mounted to my studio stand, and we goofed around with it for awhile. ISO 50 using Profoto Strobes in Plume softbox using a Profoto D-4 generator. All very consistent and repeatable. Before he left, I downloaded those RAW files to a hard drive ... but left the set-up and strobe settings exactly as we shot it.

    After he left, I then fired up the Hasselblad H3D/39 and shot the set-up again with H/C 80/2.8, camera on stand without changing anything. I processed both as DNGs and brought them into Adobe Camera RAW as shot, did nothing to them and opened them as 100%, 16 bit tiffs. The H3D shots were actually a tad better exhibiting better control of specular highlights and slightly less CA. The CA was easy to correct in post. In short, not any sort of significant difference, but unfortunately "significant" was exactly what I was looking for.... especially from the lenses.

    In fact, the only significant thing I experienced was the AFi pricing : -(

    As far as handling, I prefer the H cameras for their versatility as a high resolution tethered studio unit then as a fast DSLR like unit for people and event work.

    However, I wasn't looking to replace the H system ... I was after a replacement for my Mamiya RZ Pro-II with an Aptus 75s back that I use in studio.
    thanks for your info marc. i do a lot of location work as well so i was wondering more about the handling, af, speed, size and viewfinder than the file quality. i know the leaf backs perform well as do the hasselblad backs.
    i wasn't really expecting any optical improvement over the fuji lenses.
    but if you we're interested in a studio setup you probably didn't look at af and handholding...

    one other question if you don't mind. you used to use contax as i do now i think. how would you compare the hassy glass and af to the contax? i've handled an h2 a couple of times and like the feel of it and i was also impressed with the viewfinder compared to the cave-like view from the contax.
    i'll be renting one next week, but if you could say something about the lenses and the af i'd be interested to hear it.

    thanks again. kip

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by kipling View Post
    thanks for your info marc. i do a lot of location work as well so i was wondering more about the handling, af, speed, size and viewfinder than the file quality. i know the leaf backs perform well as do the hasselblad backs.
    i wasn't really expecting any optical improvement over the fuji lenses.
    but if you we're interested in a studio setup you probably didn't look at af and hand-holding...

    one other question if you don't mind. you used to use contax as i do now i think. how would you compare the hassy glass and af to the contax? i've handled an h2 a couple of times and like the feel of it and i was also impressed with the viewfinder compared to the cave-like view from the contax.
    i'll be renting one next week, but if you could say something about the lenses and the af i'd be interested to hear it.

    thanks again. kip
    Actually, I did look at the camera from the perspective of AF and handheld work. I use a V camera that way more than in studio. I found the Hy6 to be lighter weight than its appearance would lead you to believe, and the viewfinder is quite bright ... but this was with a waist level finder as the prism wasn't available for this demo.

    Irakly came toward the end of the demo and was almost entirely interested in the camera from a speed, candid people shooting POV. He was also not all that impressed with the lens ... and he owns and shoots Rollei.

    Irakly also pointed out that they changed the way the adjustable handle is controlled from the way his Rollei handle works .... where you can move it without stopping the action to press the release like you have to do with the Hy6.

    I was disappointed that the back didn't rotate like Rollei has had before, and my RZ does now. You have to remove the back and rotate it to portrait orientation ... which of course you need not do with a 645 like the H camera , Mamiya or your Contax. I do NOT like removing the back while shooting candid or location work... especially fast paced stuff.

    The 645s comparison: Note that it may seem I am favoring the H system because I own it and am justifying that decision. Of course that is true, but it was a decision that was informed by owning all three major 645 choices and using them a LOT. I used a Contax 645 for many, many years, and still own a Mamiya 645 AFD-II for use with a Aptus 75s.

    The Contax was an incredible camera for its time, and still is a viable choice in some regards. Irakly still uses one with a Kodak ProBack 645C to great ends. If Kyocera had stayed the course and continued development of the C645, who knows what the playing field would be like today.

    The HD cameras run circles around the C645 in terms of integrated performance, clarity, functional camera control, flash control, and especially AF speed and accuracy. The power supply is a non issue with the H system with the grip providing power seamlessly to the camera and back. Each iteration of the H system software/firmware brings new user functionality and speed of operation. The more they integrate the system the faster it gets. Except for multiple focus point control, I now find the H camera as easy or easier to use than my Canon 1DMKII.

    I had gone into the H system with a preconceived bias for Zeiss glass ... and did not make the leap from Contax 645 to the H until they offered the CF adapter to use my Zeiss V lenses on the H. That prejudice turned out to be unfounded. The characteristics are different to be sure, but the Fuji glass is beautifully made and the characteristics hold their own with the Contax glass ... which differs in degree lens to lens ... as you know, the Contax 120 macro is probably one of the best ever made, and the 80/2 is not only the fastest but one of the finer standard lens made for MF. However, the HC 100/2.2 won me over as my standard lens, and having a 28, 35 and 50mm with DAC software correction is amazing ... further proof of the integrated concept.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I was disappointed that the back didn't rotate like Rollei has had before, and my RZ does now. You have to remove the back and rotate it to portrait orientation ...
    In case you did not know, there is a new adapter coming which will allow simple back rotation. Just be patient.

    Or... you can rotate the camera like you have to with its competitors.

  38. #38
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    In case you did not know, there is a new adapter coming which will allow simple back rotation. Just be patient.

    Or... you can rotate the camera like you have to with its competitors.
    Good to know there is a rotation adapter coming. That's a great feature. Where can I find info on that? The Leaf rep said nothing about it when I asked .... which makes me wonder if the AFi will offer it. Also wonder how much that will incrementally add to an already overpriced system given the job it'll have to do?

    Rotating the camera isn't an option with waist level finder any more than it is with a Hassselblad V camera. My intent, as clearly stated, is to replace the RZ and V camera which can be used with a waist level finder for lower perspective work.

    The advice as to exercising patience is good advice. Wait until other early adopters fund the R&D on this system, and it either survives and the pricing settles, or these incremental add-ons become standard equipment.

  39. #39
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    The revolving adapter will be available begin of 2008, most probably by end of January, for the Sinar Hy6.

    You can get all prices information from SinarBron Imaging, by contacting Greg King at SBI ([email protected])

    best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Good to know there is a rotation adapter coming. That's a great feature. Where can I find info on that? The Leaf rep said nothing about it when I asked .... which makes me wonder if the AFi will offer it. Also wonder how much that will incrementally add to an already overpriced system given the job it'll have to do?

    The advice as to exercising patience is good advice. Wait until other early adopters fund the R&D on this system, and it either survives and the pricing settles, or these incremental add-ons become standard equipment.

  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Thierry who is a major retailer in the US of Sinar . I am in the southwest part of the country but i travel a lot to NY and will be in LA for 2 weeks in January. I would just like to at least look at the systems. i will also be stopping in at PMA also before Jack and I travel to Moab Utah to do our workshop there, will Sinar be at PMA also.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #41
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Guy,

    Our exclusive distributor for US is SinarBron Imaging, in Edison, NJ (see details below). They are working with a network of dealers, but I do not have the details of them, since the US is not my country.

    ADDENDUM: I have just found the dealers list on SBI's webpage. Please go to:

    http://www.sinarbron.com/dealers.php

    in LA:

    CALUMET PHOTOGRAHIC
    1135 N. HIGHLAND AVE.
    LOS ANGELES, CA 90038
    (323) 466-1238
    (323) 466-1906 (FAX) www.calumetphoto.com

    or:

    SAMY'S CAMERA
    431 S. FAIRFAX AVE.
    LOS ANGELES, CA 90036
    (323) 938-2420
    (323) 937-2919 (FAX) www.samys.com

    & in NY:

    FOTO CARE
    136 W. 21ST ST.
    NEW YORK, NY 10011
    (212) 741-2990
    (212) 741-3217 (FAX)
    [email protected]
    www.fotocare.com

    or:

    CALUMET PHOTOGRAPHIC
    16 W. 19TH ST.
    NEW YORK, NY 10011
    (212) 989-8500
    (212) 627-9088 (FAX) www.calumetphoto.com

    Yes, I think SBI and Sinar will be at the PMA.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Sinar Bron Imaging
    17 Progress Street
    Edison, N.J. 08820

    Phone: (+1) 908 754 58 00
    Fax: (+1) 908 754 58 07
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Website: www.sinarbron.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thierry who is a major retailer in the US of Sinar . I am in the southwest part of the country but i travel a lot to NY and will be in LA for 2 weeks in January. I would just like to at least look at the systems. i will also be stopping in at PMA also before Jack and I travel to Moab Utah to do our workshop there, will Sinar be at PMA also.
    Last edited by thsinar; 8th December 2007 at 05:28. Reason: Addendum

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Just to add a bit of joviality in the discussion...

    I really enjoy using my CF adaptor on the blad...( it makes a really loud clunking noise when you cock it and when it fires) with V lenses on board. if I close my eyes and listen as I release the shutter - it is almost as if I am shooting with a 500 series camera.

    The Hy6/AFi ( who are they trying to kid with different labels on the same box anyway? ) makes the same clunky sound when it fires - and goes one further with grinding slow auto focus to complete the retro package.

    I think Hasselblad should do a deal with Nikon and ask them if they can record a motor driven Nikon F3. Perhaps the next generation of H cameras could include a tiny high powered speaker with user dial preferences for the camera sound that suits the occasion... that would be a blast I reckon ...

    A final thought on the 'rotating back' - will be a real bummer if the chip makers ever go to square format chip wont it ? LOL

  43. #43
    rainer-v
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    .... and i would like to see the rotation back with a motor drive and an auto detector which decides if the motif is horizontal or vertical.
    there could be a menue ( deep inside as canons mirror-up function ) which overrides the auto positioning,- but only for the next shot.

  44. #44
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Dear Peter,

    I don't know what this "poor" Hy6 has done to you, must be awful!

    However, everywhere it has been used by photographers the feedback is very positive and all are excited, and I don't say that as a "marketing hype". But I wish to answer because I don't like any bad bashing of a product, being it Sinar or any other brand.

    The AF, which you mention, has been tested in many occasions side by side (by photographers using the H series) with the H2/H3 and is in fact a bit faster. Further, it does not grind more than the Hasselblad one. And, in low light conditions there is a "redlight grid" projected to help the focus (not available on the H). I would suggest to read some reports made by others who have used it in real shots.

    The different brand packages: we do try to "kid" nobody!

    The Hy6 is a common project including companies like Jenoptik (the designer and project owner/payer), Franke & Heidecke (the manufacturer), Leaf & Sinar selling this camera (with digital backs) and F&H selling it as well as an analog camera (no digital backs sold through F&H).

    The Sinarbacks can be fit as well on a Leaf AFi, as much as the corresponding Leaf backs can be mounted on a Sinar Hy6.

    Revolving adapter: I don't see your point. This is an ADAPTER, which is first OPTIONAL (for those who need it), and which can be TAKEN AWAY from the digital back, like for ANY adapter for Sinarbacks.

    FYI: Sinarbacks can be used on any common MF and LF camera with the right adapter, no need to get a new back when changing the camera brand/platform.

    I hope this gives some information which seem to be lacking.

    Thanks and best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Just to add a bit of joviality in the discussion...

    I really enjoy using my CF adaptor on the blad...( it makes a really loud clunking noise when you cock it and when it fires) with V lenses on board. if I close my eyes and listen as I release the shutter - it is almost as if I am shooting with a 500 series camera.

    The Hy6/AFi ( who are they trying to kid with different labels on the same box anyway? ) makes the same clunky sound when it fires - and goes one further with grinding slow auto focus to complete the retro package.

    I think Hasselblad should do a deal with Nikon and ask them if they can record a motor driven Nikon F3. Perhaps the next generation of H cameras could include a tiny high powered speaker with user dial preferences for the camera sound that suits the occasion... that would be a blast I reckon ...

    A final thought on the 'rotating back' - will be a real bummer if the chip makers ever go to square format chip wont it ? LOL
    Last edited by thsinar; 8th December 2007 at 05:46. Reason: correction

  45. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    Dear Peter,

    I don't know what this "poor" Hy6 has done to you, must be awful!

    However, everywhere it has been used by photographers the feedback is very positive and all are excited, and I don't say that as a "marketing hype". But I wish to answer because I don't like any bad bashing of a product, being it Sinar or any other brand.

    The AF, which you mention, has been tested in many occasions side by side (by photographers using the H series) with the H2/H3 and is in fact a bit faster. Further, it does not grind more than the Hasselblad one. And, in low light conditions there is a "redlight grid" projected to help the focus (not available on the H). I would suggest to read some reports made by others who have used it in real shots.

    The different brand packages: we do try to "kid" nobody!

    The Hy6 is a common project including companies like Jenoptik (the designer and project owner/payer), Franke & Heidecke (the manufacturer), Leaf & Sinar selling this camera (with digital backs) and F&H selling it as well as an analog camera (no digital backs sold through F&H).

    The Sinarbacks can be fit as well on a Leaf AFi, as much as the corresponding Leaf backs can be mounted on a Sinar Hy6.

    Revolving adapter: I don't see your point. This is an ADAPTER, which is first OPTIONAL (for those who need it), and which can be TAKEN AWAY from the digital back, like for ANY adapter for Sinarbacks.

    FYI: Sinarbacks can be used on any common MF and LF camera with the right adapter, no need to get a new back when changing the camera brand/platform.

    I hope this gives some information which seem to be lacking.

    Thanks and best regards,
    Thierry
    Thierry, is it possible that Marc and Pete both had bum Hy6's for testing? Or is this AF speed and sound different with each Schneider lens?

    It's also a little disturbing that the zoom lens is practicly twice the cost of the Hasselblad zoom but certainly not better. Or have you the opinion that the Schneider lenses out perform the Hasselblad lenses?

    Thanks for any information you might have.

  46. #46
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    hi Kipling,

    I don't know what happened in Melbourne, but our distributor told me that all went well. I am still trying to get more info on the AF experience made by Peter: I can't understand this, since everywhere the Hy6 is compared it outperforms the H. It might be that the Hy6 did not have the latest firmware, but has to be checked.

    I won't make any comment on lens, since I don't know how the tests have been done to compare. But I have had the Schneider 80mm AFD myself for a couple of days and I was impressed with the results.

    Here also the official catalog prices published by our distributor SBI in the US (I could not get the AFD prices from them yet), concerning the Sinar Hy6:

    Sinar Hy6 Digital Combo/75LV $32,500.00
    Sinar Hy6 Digital Combo/54LV $27,500.00
    Sinar Hy6 Body $4,381.00
    Prism Finder 90 Degree Hy6 $1,366.00
    Waist Level Finder Hy6 $456.00
    Film Magazine Adapter 4560 Hy6 $537.00

    Schneider AF S-Ang 50mm F2.8 HFT PQS $4,549.00
    Schneider AF Xenotar 80mm F2.8 PQS $2,161.00
    Sch AF Tele-Xenar 150mm F4 HFT PQS $3,865.00
    Schneider Tele-Xenar 180mm F2.8 PQ $4,536.00
    Schneider AF Variogon 60-140 F4.6 PQS $5,636.00
    Sch Super-Angulon 40mm F3.5 HFT PQ $4,768.00
    Sch Apo-Tele-Xenar 300mm F4 HFT PQ $5,900.00
    Schneider Variogon 140-280 F5.6 HFT PQ $6,855.00
    Schneider Xenotar 80mm F2.8 HFT PQS $2,058.00
    Sch Apo-Symmar 90mm F4 HFT PQS $3,697.00
    Zeiss Distagon 50mm F4 EL HFT PQS $2,098.00
    Zeiss Planar 110mm F2 HFT PQ $4,871.00
    Zeiss Makro Planar 120mm F4 HFT PQS $3,952.00
    Zeiss Sonnar 150mm F4 HFT PQS $3,031.00
    Zeiss Sonnar 250mm F5.6 HFT PQS $3,543.00

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by kipling View Post
    Thierry, is it possible that Marc and Pete both had bum Hy6's for testing? Or is this AF speed and sound different with each Schneider lens?

    It's also a little disturbing that the zoom lens is practicly twice the cost of the Hasselblad zoom but certainly not better. Or have you the opinion that the Schneider lenses out perform the Hasselblad lenses?

    Thanks for any information you might have.

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    I guess the Leaf AFi I tried did not have the latest firmware either because it DID NOT outperform either of my Hasselblad H3Ds AF ... which do have the latest firmware, and do have improved AF over previous versions.

    So I hope people are comparing apples-to-apples in the case of either the Hy6 OR the H camera. I just assumed the Hy6 being demo'ed was up to date and the lens a good example of what you get.

    BTW, those prices are not what was quoted to me by the Leaf AFi rep.

    AFi-7, Camera and AFi-7 back (no lens): $36,000.

    Schneider AF lenses (not concerned with the non-digital, non-AF lenses which can be had on the used market):

    50/2.8: $5,142.
    80/2.8: $3,100
    150/4 : (didn't have price yet)
    180/2.8: $5,864.
    60-140/4.6: $6,916

    When you add up all the differences it's a big chunk of change.

    How much is the rotating back adapter?

    Still wish this could replace my Mamiya RZ and Aptus 75s, but I can't even get a whisper of what a upgrade path would be from a 1 month old Aptus 75s.

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    Thierry - the least of Sinar/Leaf's concerns are whether the auto focus is slower or faster on the Hy6. it actually doesn't matter even if your 'Schneider' auto focus lenses make a touch more or less noise than H1. It actually doesn't even matter that the pricing of the lenses ( thanks for your posted prices - they bare little resemblance to what was quoted to me) is slightly higher or lower.It doesn't matter whether you have a rotating back or not. It doesn't matter if your LCD screen is tiny and useless in the field. None of these things matter very much.

    What matters is that the whole system works.

    Most commentary on cameras I read in forums like this is irrelevant to me. Wether the commentary comes from an employee of a company, or whether it comes from people wanting to score points because of personality disorders or self proclaimed professionals - all these things are irrelevant.

    What matters is that the whole system and workflow works for me.

    At the end of the day, all I want to be able to do is have the practicality of a 35mm system with better resolution/colour than what 35mm format delivers.
    I want my MFDB system to give me (at least) the quality of work flow and ease of use that Canon/Nikon/Leica deliver already.

    For the money paid - MFDB should be an orders of magnitude better experience than 35mm - it isn't. This fact is why your industry is in serious decline.

    btw the meeting with the people who have Sinar and Leaf distribution down here did go very well - I placed my order for a HD3 soon after.
    Last edited by PeterA; 8th December 2007 at 17:04.

  49. #49
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    hi fotografz,

    I am pretty sure that the AFi did not have the latest FW, but was a pre-production demo unit.

    The prices I have posted are exclusively Sinar SBI prices. Leaf is free to have their own prices.

    The revolving adapter is around $ 1'500 here in Switzerland (I don't know the price in the US).

    Upgrades: I can't speak for Leaf and what is their policy here.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I guess the Leaf AFi I tried did not have the latest firmware either because it DID NOT outperform either of my Hasselblad H3Ds AF ... which do have the latest firmware, and do have improved AF over previous versions.

    So I hope people are comparing apples-to-apples in the case of either the Hy6 OR the H camera. I just assumed the Hy6 being demo'ed was up to date and the lens a good example of what you get.

    BTW, those prices are not what was quoted to me by the Leaf AFi rep.

    AFi-7, Camera and AFi-7 back (no lens): $36,000.

    Schneider AF lenses (not concerned with the non-digital, non-AF lenses which can be had on the used market):

    50/2.8: $5,142.
    80/2.8: $3,100
    150/4 : (didn't have price yet)
    180/2.8: $5,864.
    60-140/4.6: $6,916

    When you add up all the differences it's a big chunk of change.

    How much is the rotating back adapter?

    Still wish this could replace my Mamiya RZ and Aptus 75s, but I can't even get a whisper of what a upgrade path would be from a 1 month old Aptus 75s.

  50. #50
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: Sinar Hy6 first impressions

    hi Peter,

    yes, I totally agree with this: at the end it has to work for you, nothing more.

    Prices: those published by me are US prices. "Down" there in AU they are certainly different, like they might be different elsewhere. It was just an indication since this site is based in the US.

    Your comment about the meeting with the Sinar/Leaf distributor is strange for me. Andrew did mention excatly the opposite to me, so I'll have to check this out.

    Looking forward to meet you in Melboure during one of my next visit there.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Thierry - the least of Sinar/Leaf's concerns are whether the auto focus is slower or faster on the Hy6. it actually doesn't matter even if your 'Schneider' auto focus lenses make a touch more or less noise than H1. It actually doesn't even matter that the pricing of the lenses ( thanks for your posted prices - they bare little resemblance to what was quoted to me) is slightly higher or lower.It doesn't matter whether you have a rotating back or not. It doesn't matter if your LCD screen is tiny and useless in the field. None of these things matter very much.

    What matters is that the whole system works.

    Most commentary on cameras I read in forums like this is irrelevant to me. Wether the commentary comes from an employee of a company, or whether it comes from people wanting to score points because of personality disorders or self proclaimed professionals - all these things are irrelevant.

    What matters is that the whole system and workflow works for me.

    At the end of the day, all I want to be able to do is have the practicality of a 35mm system with better resolution/colour than what 35mm format delivers.
    I want my MFDB system to give me (at least) the quality of work flow and ease of use that Canon/Nikon/Leica deliver already.

    For the money paid - MFDB should be an orders of magnitude better experience than 35mm - it isn't. This fact is why your industry is in serious decline.

    btw the meeting with the people who have Sinar and Leaf distribution down here did go very well - I placed my order for a HD3 soon after.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •