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Thread: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Short history is I've used C330, RB67, and especially Bronica erts and 6 lenses before I went 100% digital in 1998 or 99 with Kodak 520 ($12,500 at the time) and did youth sports and equestrian events for a few years. Last 8 years I've owned small portrait studio, about 150 seniors, families, an occasional wedding. I understand the shallow dof, and small sensor effects if not full frame, but, man, this mf digital is pretty confusing stuff, especially if on a budget.

    I'd say in 6 months to a year I'd like to bring MF into the studio. I've missed that MF experience. I understand the swordsman is more important than the sword, but I have clients that have the same or better camera gear than my Canons.

    Frankly, business is not exactly booming. Have to do more volume to have the same net while expenses keep increasing. I did get some nuggets of info from the Short Course thread (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18463). I'm not prepared to go for my lungs. ROI won't be great and this is partly for me and not just the bottom line.

    So looking for mf that's at home on camera stand, but can jump on tripod and go outside the studio for outdoor senior work 2-5 times a day during senior season or go off to family session at their home or a park. Tethered won't work, cf cards seem best

    OK, what I see is the Pentax 645D has promise, but no one, including Pentax, has any idea of when it will be available in the US. Specs seem fine for my use (although I don't know how to compare it's 14 bit to others 16 bit). Price point is in my ball park. Hassy H3DII-31 at $10K plus a couple of lenses (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...0.html#reviews) seems like it would also work, especially since it might have higher ISO capabilities. I have no idea what good choices would be in the used market.

    Any suggestions, reasons why one system might be better than another, comments, etc. are greatly appreciated.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    I just recently went the H3DII-31 route. I'm very happy with my decision. You'll find that their lenses sell used about half of retail. Which makes things affordable.

    From start to finish it's a great system using Phocus software. We shoot tethered a bit and it's been just perfect. (Macbook Pro) The camera feels good in our hands, it shoots well, the quality of the files, especially after running through Phocus is just perfection.

    I really don't have a thing to complain about the system... all MF have flaws or characteristics, but Hasselblad's are rather easy to live with. That's my take at least.

    If you use lights a lot, it'll be really handy to have the leaf shutter as opposed to the focal plane shutter, we can sync at 1/800th with strobes outdoors which gives an awesome look to some photos.

    I have a few photos taken with mixed in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/symbolphotography/

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    There a quite a few good used H3DII deals around at the moment. Writing as an H4D system user, I share the enthusiasm of symbolphoto for the Hassy system - ease of use, file quality, etc. A better bet than the untried and unavailable Pentax 645 in my view. You can't go wrong with the Hasselblad particulary if you can pick up a decent once used (or stretch to a new H4D-40 deal perhaps).

    Quentin
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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    Short history is I've used C330, RB67, and especially Bronica erts and 6 lenses before I went 100% digital in 1998 or 99 with Kodak 520 ($12,500 at the time) and did youth sports and equestrian events for a few years. Last 8 years I've owned small portrait studio, about 150 seniors, families, an occasional wedding. I understand the shallow dof, and small sensor effects if not full frame, but, man, this mf digital is pretty confusing stuff, especially if on a budget.

    I'd say in 6 months to a year I'd like to bring MF into the studio. I've missed that MF experience. I understand the swordsman is more important than the sword, but I have clients that have the same or better camera gear than my Canons.

    Frankly, business is not exactly booming. Have to do more volume to have the same net while expenses keep increasing. I did get some nuggets of info from the Short Course thread (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18463). I'm not prepared to go for my lungs. ROI won't be great and this is partly for me and not just the bottom line.

    So looking for mf that's at home on camera stand, but can jump on tripod and go outside the studio for outdoor senior work 2-5 times a day during senior season or go off to family session at their home or a park. Tethered won't work, cf cards seem best

    OK, what I see is the Pentax 645D has promise, but no one, including Pentax, has any idea of when it will be available in the US. Specs seem fine for my use (although I don't know how to compare it's 14 bit to others 16 bit). Price point is in my ball park. Hassy H3DII-31 at $10K plus a couple of lenses (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...0.html#reviews) seems like it would also work, especially since it might have higher ISO capabilities. I have no idea what good choices would be in the used market.

    Any suggestions, reasons why one system might be better than another, comments, etc. are greatly appreciated.

    Hi David:

    By the description from your post, there is no question that for a $10K and below budget, the products you should consider would only be medium format models that utilize micro lenses. The micro lenses amplify the sensitivity by 2 - 3 stops from typical medium format digital backs. There are only 3 such products that would typically be found at $10K or below:

    *H3D/H3DII-31
    *P30/30+ & whatever camera you like (Phase/Mamiya 645, H1/H2, Contax, etc)
    *P21/21+ & whatever camera you like (Phase/Mamiya 645, H1/H2, Contax, etc)

    These products will give you some of that medium format renaissance feel, while still being versatile enough to shoot in variable lighting scenarios. It's a very simple formula when deciding whether you need to restrict yourself to these products (for your budget). Simply ask yourself the question - "Do I need/want to shoot at ISO 400 frequently?" If the answer is yes, then what I stated above will hold true.

    If you follow this forum, you'll see there are many options available. I think it these products and how they compare. It's a big investment for you, you want it to be the right one, the one that fits you like a glove, not like a mitten.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Understand the ROI comment in spades David.

    IMO, the best solution for the money right now is the H3D-II/31. Good deal new if they still have any, and even better used, if you can find a low use one.

    I had this camera prior to the H4D/40 and can attest to its performance and versatility as a portrait and people camera (my application is weddings and engagement sessions as well as environmental portrait sessions). I especially like the HC/100/2.2 lens for people work. My preference is for a leaf shutter camera where all lenses offer high sync speeds because I do a lot of outdoor portraits using aux. lighting. Plus, I like using a waist level finder for some stuff.

    But available light is also excellent, and ISO 800 or even 1600 is quite good especially since the improvements in both Phocus and Lightroom3 software.

    The first 5 images shown here were done with the H3D-II/31:


    http://www.fotografz.com/portrait-portfolio.html

    -Marc

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    I agree with Marc entirely. He gave me some tips too

    I plan in the next year or so, if there is an enticing deal, to upgrade to the H4D-40. I'll be attending the FocusPoint here in Boston this week, so i'll finally have a chance to play with the H4D.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Also try the Phase system out the P30+ is basically the same sensor as the HD/31 but offers a different system. Not trying to sell either one but as always recommended by everyone try these things out before making any purchase. Never know what you like functionally, ergo's and software until you get your hands on them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    I had four senior sessions yesterday. I went outside for a brief time on all them and in each case I bumped the ISO up to 320-400. As the days grow shorter, I'll probably be bumping it up to 800 in late afternoon. So ability to use higher ISO is a factor as is a camera system that's reasonably nibble.

    For the newbie mf purchaser, lack of higher ISO is a major disappointment. The marketplace seems to be fueled by people like myself moving up to (or back to) mf and getting in at the "lower" price points, and those upgrading. So to this newbie, lack of good performance at 800-1200 ISO levels is a weakness. Obviously, not a problem in studio as have plenty of strobe power, although it is a factor when doing some family sessions on locations as will need to bring more strobes along in some form. And I do help a friend out with weddings a few times a year, but I guess just stay with 35mm style dslr for that work.

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Hi David:

    By the description from your post, there is no question that for a $10K and below budget, the products you should consider would only be medium format models that utilize micro lenses. The micro lenses amplify the sensitivity by 2 - 3 stops from typical medium format digital backs. There are only 3 such products that would typically be found at $10K or below:

    *H3D/H3DII-31
    *P30/30+ & whatever camera you like (Phase/Mamiya 645, H1/H2, Contax, etc)
    *P21/21+ & whatever camera you like (Phase/Mamiya 645, H1/H2, Contax, etc)

    These products will give you some of that medium format renaissance feel, while still being versatile enough to shoot in variable lighting scenarios. It's a very simple formula when deciding whether you need to restrict yourself to these products (for your budget). Simply ask yourself the question - "Do I need/want to shoot at ISO 400 frequently?" If the answer is yes, then what I stated above will hold true.

    If you follow this forum, you'll see there are many options available. I think it these products and how they compare. It's a big investment for you, you want it to be the right one, the one that fits you like a glove, not like a mitten.


    Steve Hendrix
    +1

    Staying behind the leading edge by a couple-three years will get you good value, and you'll be significantly surprised at the quality out there. The need to keep an eye on the ISO is very important, probably a threshold in the decision process.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    P30+ and H31 are pretty darn good at ISO 800. But this takes some care as you want to be on the money with exposure and not be underexposed at all. Not sure on Phocus but in C1 the noise control is very good and need to find the right formula as well on the high ISO. I used ISO 800 a lot on the P30+ with great results.

    I should add I think Phocus improved the high ISO to 800 but David can touch on that more effectively
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    +1

    Staying behind the leading edge by a couple-three years will get you good value, and you'll be significantly surprised at the quality out there. The need to keep an eye on the ISO is very important, probably a threshold in the decision process.
    That's true. My first digital camera cost $12,500 and it dropped in price by $3,000 about 45 days after I bought it. Not making that mistake again. If I wasn't paying for part of an upcoming wedding I probably would have taken a chance on H3DII-31 with two lenses and some goodies on eBay that went for $8,700.

    If the Pentax 645 ever shows up, it might be interesting to see it's higher ISO capabilities. Having dual card slots, longer life battery, good dust minimizing system and higher ISO are things newbies like me appreciate. On the other hand, looks like it's shutter life is 50,000 which is low compared to 35mm dlsr's (and I couldn't find info on estimated shutter life of H3dII-31 to know if that's good or bad compared to other mf bodies).

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    If I wasn't paying for part of an upcoming wedding I probably would have taken a chance on H3DII-31 with two lenses and some goodies on eBay that went for $8,700.
    I'm paying for an upcoming wedding AND got the H3DII-31. I was in the dog house for a couple of days but things seem to have subsided.

    Hey, you only live once. And hopefully only get married once.

    I'm sure the Pentax will be a great camera, but it's lacking certain features such as 16 bit processing and Leaf shutters for high sync speeds. That was a no-go for me.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Need to read the B&S creed ( Buy now explain later) LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Hey, you only live once.
    That's one of the reason's I plan to go mf again. I miss that feeling and want it back. Not sure it will do much for my business, but if it makes me feel good, that's better than a shrink or hookers. lol. Still, the wedding had to come first and my good friends at the IRS are having some words with me. Seems my former payroll company didn't forward them my withholding and now payroll company is bankrupt. And the good friends want their money.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    That's one of the reason's I plan to go mf again. I miss that feeling and want it back. Not sure it will do much for my business, but if it makes me feel good, that's better than a shrink or hookers. lol. Still, the wedding had to come first and my good friends at the IRS are having some words with me. Seems my former payroll company didn't forward them my withholding and now payroll company is bankrupt. And the good friends want their money.
    I hate the good friends. Well it can be a selling point to some customers, so you may want to use it for some stuff.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    I hate the good friends. Well it can be a selling point to some customers, so you may want to use it for some stuff.
    You have that exactly right and that's what I plan to do. While I still believe it's the swordsman and not the sword, might as well brag about the sword. Professionals are having an increasingly difficult time differentiating themselves from those who produce sub-professional level images so a blurb that the camera I use can't be purchased at Best Buy will be there in marketing and in telephone conversations with clients. I've been to social gatherings and some who owns some kind of Canon Rebel say, "hey, we have the same camera" just because my camera says Canon on it.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    I have a complete Phase system and a Rebel system. They each have there place on my gigs. Just a FYI nothing can touch my Phase system and my clients know that. It pays HUGE dividends to educate your clients. They love my 40 mpx. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    I find that one of the best ways to differentiate yourself to your clients, especially portrait/wedding clients with this gear is to explain retouching. If you offer it.

    If i have a larger canvas to start with, it allows me to retouch and keep texture and keep things looking natural. Nothing worse than a retouch which incorporates straight up blurring to hide blemishes.

    MF allows one to start with a larger canvas and be able to retouch with less destruction in localized areas.

    That's my take at least. And it's one i truly believe in. It's not a gimmick. We oftentimes deal with clients which require heavy retouching and this resolution gives me the room to make simple or drastic retouching.

    .02

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I have a complete Phase system and a Rebel system. They each have there place on my gigs. Just a FYI nothing can touch my Phase system and my clients know that. It pays HUGE dividends to educate your clients. They love my 40 mpx. LOL
    Guy,

    If your clients are art directors and graphics people, it's a bit easier to educate them. If you clients are families, parents of high school seniors, weddings, etc., it's a constant marketing effort.

    Agree on second system for appropriate market/occasion.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    I find that one of the best ways to differentiate yourself to your clients, especially portrait/wedding clients with this gear is to explain retouching. If you offer it.
    My thought is for those kind of clients it's easier for them to under the comparison between apples and apples rather than apples to oranges. Easier for them to compare cameras to cameras rather than cameras to retouching. My experience is a clear, easy to understand marketing message is most effective. However, if your client workflow is to have a face to face consultation before portrait session or wedding there's time for the retouching benefit of mf. And that conversation does set you up as an expert in advance photography and clients like that. In those situations, it's an idea I'll have to remember.

    For my seniors, it's a telephone conversation at time they book session and they are generally sold or they wouldn't call. For family portraits your message might work, but it's still easier for them to relate a small format to a small print and a larger format to a larger print.

    As for retouching, it's something we stress, have a bit of a reputation for, and it's a profit center as there's a separate charge for every senior we photograph.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Yeah, we have time to go over it with our clients. Retouching is something we also specialize in. And it's certainly a profit center for us. Which is why we emphasize it so much and the MF argument just adds value to the overall proposition.

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    First impressions my portrait clients have when reviewing shots done with a MFD camera ... "Oh my God it's so clear ... it looks so real"

    I'll tell you what separates the men cameras from the boy cameras ... is when you enlarge a MFD portrait shot so the eye fills the 30" screen and you can flawlessly retouch the red veins out ... LOL!

    On the subject of ISOs ... keep in mind end use sizes. Where you may be enlarging a 35mm shot a bit, the same shot done with a MFD is often reduced in size which lessens any apparent noise. With careful exposures, the ISO 800 and 1600 of my H4D/40 looks just as good as 800 or 1600 from any 35mm DSLR I've used (usually better due to lack of a pixel smearing strong AA filter like many 35mm DSLRs use). The H3D-II/31 wasn't far behind. I shoot MFD at 800 a good percentage of the time.

    Plus, a MFD file is a closer print ratio than 35mm, so you toss less data when making standard prints.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Marc,

    I'm agreeing with, and liking, what you're saying.

    I'm trying to increase my family portrait side of my business. For most people, I have to move them out of a comfort zone of price into an emotional state of "we NEED a family portrait." I'm looking at going back to mf in part to help them justify doing the portrait and having me do it. Would like a "men's camera" for that. You make a good point that retouching might be improved with mf and that's important to Mom.

    At some point I'll test out images at ISO 800 and 1600 vs. same image taken with dlsr and enlarge a portion to see noise levels. Then run Noiseware and compare them again.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    This is going to sound totally superficial, but i've thought of getting a waist veiwfinder just to add to the appeal....

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    This is going to sound totally superficial, but i've thought of getting a waist veiwfinder just to add to the appeal....
    Not at all. It's marketing and justifying the client's choice of you as a photographer. Nothing wrong with saying, "you've probably seen them use this camera on America's Next Top Model or the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Issue tv show."

    My friend works for a studio that does about 150 weddings a year, plus portrait work. He was talking to me about how many Canon 5d/5dMarkII (and Nikon equivalent) cameras he sees guests using at weddings. And while those cameras are able to produce professional images, they have to be classified as pro-sumer cameras today. So whatever one can do to differentiate once's self in the market place is good.

    In other words, a potential portrait client would rather go to a photographer using a camera with a waist viewfinder than a photographer using the same camera he sees in Best Buy. Now, that's not to say that client will still only purchase a couple of 8x10's, but he's talking to a friend in the office about photographers and they get into a pissing contest, you can be sure that mf camera will come up. I see a marketing value to using mf, even with my seniors, and certainly with the family portrait market.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Well we have almost 40 weddings this year. So we are burnt out with just that many, i can't imagine having more than that per year. I'd go insane.

    That being said, i agree with all your points and that's they way i look at it also. Wonder how much that puppy is... investigating.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    In other words, a potential portrait client would rather go to a photographer using a camera with a waist viewfinder than a photographer using the same camera he sees in Best Buy.
    Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

    Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    KeithL, i understand what you are saying, and agree.

    However, i'm talking about bringing back some antique style to the shoots. Not saying they should choose me based on viewfinder, after all, i'm not even sure how that'd work.

    What i'm saying is increasing a clients awareness and understanding that what we offer is different.

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    First impressions my portrait clients have when reviewing shots done with a MFD camera ... "Oh my God it's so clear ... it looks so real"
    I get this all the time, using a 1D Mark III and 35L. The benefits of MFD are large output, other photographers looking at 100%, and retouchers. No need to try and say society as a whole gives a hoot. What ticks me off about MFD is the workflow, slow cameras, crappy LCD's, no raid in camera, and on and on. The files are wonderful, thankfully that is not a requirement...

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    I get this all the time, using a 1D Mark III and 35L.
    Really? Do you have a portfolio online?

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

    Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.
    I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.
    Exactly.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    What Guy said.

    In a perfect world, it's the man. But there's some truth to the clothes making the man. But marketing, personality, customer service, etc., all can be as important as the quality of a portfolio.

    I saw on some thread this morning some guy took his RB67 out to a parade (guess he had a beer or two before he did that). It did get attention. One person even asked him if the camera did video!

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    What ticks me off about MFD is the workflow, slow cameras, crappy LCD's, no raid in camera, and on and on. The files are wonderful, thankfully that is not a requirement...
    As someone looking to get back into mf, I agree! One nice feature of the Pentax 645n (should it ever show up) is dual card slots so you can back-up in-camera as you shoot. Workflow, it seems to me, could be simpler. I saw that Canon announced it's 120 megapixel sensor so who knows the actual effect on camera bodies, image capabilities and workflow. http://www.canon.com/news/2010/aug24e.html

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

    Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.
    You may be right Keith, but I'm not going to tell them they are fools for what they may believe

    I also think it is foolish to think that the general public who buys the wedding photography or portrait work being discussed here are photography experts with finely developed tastes and sophistication as you seem to imply. For many, this is their only foray into paying this kind of money for photography.

    Yes, the work is how any client initially selects you ... along with up to half a dozen other shooters ... then they investigate further. Work that attracts them is the price of entry ... but is the tip of the Iceberg.

    Not advocating running out and getting a MFD system because it will land more clients. However, in general, a professional looking studio can do wonders in shoring up the confidence of a client and separating you from a Rebel toting shooter who's work they also liked.

    BTW, the biggest wedding I landed all year came down to a me or another shooter whom the client liked. I won because I shoot with a Leica, and the client heard it was the best camera. Did I argue with him? Now that wouldn't just be foolish, it'd be downright stupid.

    -Marc

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    In simple terms it's a label buying society , right or wrong women buy Prada, Gucci, Coach and you name it. Not much different really. You look the part and play the part you get the work. There are many folks that ain't worth crap as a shooter. (Yes bad english and all) But they are making more revenue than a better shooter for some very simple reasons better at marketing and better business people. Yes it is not fair but life yada yada yada.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    BTW I know, I have more Manolo Blanik shoes in my closet to open a women's shoe store and the little muggin dog ate one yesterday and all hell broke lose. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.
    I agree with this 100%, which is why I use Canon 1D bodies. Not that I absolutely need the additional quality in the files over the prosumer models (the electronics are better when reading from the sensor) but it helps show the customer that I do know what I am doing. Things like raid also give me piece of mind and I don't want to be tethered to a laptop.

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Well we have almost 40 weddings this year. So we are burnt out with just that many, i can't imagine having more than that per year. I'd go insane.

    That being said, i agree with all your points and that's they way i look at it also. Wonder how much that puppy is... investigating.
    40 weddings? I should be so lucky. I'd get selective and go for 20 or 25 which is about all I've ever been able to handle even with a second shooter. Exhausting.

    -Marc

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Really? Do you have a portfolio online?
    Yes, but I prefer to remain anonymous. I have posted some of my work here before.

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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    Yes, but I prefer to remain anonymous. I have posted some of my work here before.
    Sorry, then your opinions don't matter to me. And that's probably fine with you. Nothing irritates me more than people on forums who post no personal info, (on a photography forum no less), yet give all kinds of advice. My pet peeve.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    40 weddings? I should be so lucky. I'd get selective and go for 20 or 25 which is about all I've ever been able to handle even with a second shooter. Exhausting.

    -Marc
    Yeah, well i'd rather be where you are. As i'm sure you know, doing this many weddings takes over your entire life. We are cutting down to the 20's for next year. We plan to raise prices soon.

    Doing this many is just too much. Between the day of (Which is really the easiest part), retouching, DVD's, prints, albums, you name it. Just too much followup.

    We are getting married next year ourselves and need the time to plan our own damn wedding

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