Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 79 of 79

Thread: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

  1. #51
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    . . . She says as she is contemplating the 28mm, 55 LS, 80 LS, 110 LS, and 150D for her "small kit" for the DF Body as a compliment to the Tech Cam, Lenses and Back!!!




    Hah - First off my body (at least for the next four days) is only an AFD III....
    My only other lenses will be two cast offs or sloppy seconds as I like to refer to them....

    Actually my small (which does not equate to cheap ) kit is sort of decided 28, 80, 75-150

    My tech camera arrives tomorrow...(it went from Phoenix to Albuquerque, to Lexington KY, to Oakland). For now it is a one lens kit with a 35. Haven't gotten my mind around what the best second lens will be for me. What are you using on your Alpa?

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ernst View Post
    OK thanks - I was hoping that vibration issues would be reduced by using a leaf shutter lens, but I guess that is not the case. Oh well...
    Tim,

    On my DF camera, when I use mirror up and the CF settings to use leaf shutter only, the focal plane shutter is not used during image capture. The focal plane shutter appears to open when the mirror is locked up. There seems to be much less vibration in the shot, since only the leaf shutter is used.

    David

  3. #53
    Subscriber & Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,178
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    414

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    What are you using on your Alpa?
    I started with the 47mm, then added the 90mm. My next move will be 28 or 35 (or maybe the new 32 from Rodenstock). I am waiting to see the new Schneider 28 and the new Rodenstock. The 70/72 & 120 are tempting as well.

    But don't be in a hurry to get lenses for the tech cam. You can do so much with just one lens, you'll see. Also, I am beginning to suspect that it is a bit of an art pairing lens brand/make/focal length to Sensor brand/model/size/pixel pitch etc.

    Well my other body is an AFD I with a 2 lens kit of a Hassy 110/2 and Hassy 50/2.8. The adapter for the lenses cost more than I paid for the body!!! If I add another lens it will be the 80/1.9.

    Good luck with the new kit!

    P.S. Sorry to the 110 LS discussion for this digression.

  4. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Hey David, that was exactly my original question about the FP shutter but looking back through the thread I guess it was never really answered (too much testing with the gin I guess) - so you say it does indeed open when the mirror is locked up? So then after a wait of several seconds for the gin to settle down only the leaf shutter opens when the exposure is made? That would make a big difference.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    431
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ernst View Post
    OK thanks - I was hoping that vibration issues would be reduced by using a leaf shutter lens, but I guess that is not the case. Oh well...
    no its not - in fact DF with LS lenses are noisier than regular ones. which is disappointing.

    besides the mirror and FS there is a third noise from the LS operating.
    you can clearly hear when the LS works, its a different sound to what you are used to.

  6. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    I'm not worried about the noise, just about the vibrations which can have a huge impact on image quality.

  7. #57
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    General rule Leaf shutters have less vibration than focal. It is a different sound and I honestly have not shot my 80 LS in mirror up mode yet. Might have to try this today
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Yup, no question that leaf shutters have less vibration, but this is an odd situation since there is also a focal plane shutter that still opens before the exposure - and exactly when that opens is what seems to be in question. If it opens at the same time you lock the mirror up with the first press, then great - you would be able to let the camera settle down before making the exposure with the second button press. But if the focal shutter does not open until you actually make the exposure (just before the leaf shutter opens), then you would still have vibrations left over from the focal shutter opening. Hence my question - if the focal shutter opens when the mirror is locked up or not until the button is pressed a second time. Seems to me that these LS lenses would be a great benefit to a landscape shooter like me (who would never use a flash so don't need the higher sync speed), if the vibration was less, although the creep factor on the 110 kind of makes that a mute point - I prefer not to have to duct tape the lens every time I focus, ha!

  9. #59
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    I think I understand your question now. Here is the sequence in MLU mode based on sounds and observation: 1) First press, mirror goes up and lens shutter remains open. 2) Second press, LS shuts and focal opens (you can feel this in the camera, but it's slight), then a brief pause -- like half a second -- and LS fires, camera returns to ready for the next capture.

    In an ideal world the process would be that on first press, the mirror would go up, the leaf would shut and the focal would open. Then on the second press only the leaf would fire. Maybe we could get that via a firmware update?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  10. #60
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Good point Tim. May have to get that kind of answer from a Phase engineer but it is a great question
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Thanks Jack - I didn't even think about the LF having to CLOSE first! That all seems kind of awkward, especially with that much of a delay - almost like in slow motion. I guess it would be a four-part sequence before actual exposure if you did not use MLU with the press of the button - with the LS having to close and then open again, and the FS having to open, and the mirror going up - how can you get a sharp image at all that way, ha! Guess you just need to add more gin....Guy I would be really interested to hear what one of those guys says about it....

    All a mute point, of course, if you buy these lenses to use with flash, which is really what they were designed for. I was just hoping they would be able to reduce the vibration for us long-exposure and slow-moving nature photogs...

  12. #62
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    I will see if Doug can find out the whole process. Be interesting to hear how it is done. I need to get out and just try it with the new lens. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #63
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ernst View Post
    Thanks Jack - I didn't even think about the LF having to CLOSE first! That all seems kind of awkward, especially with that much of a delay - almost like in slow motion. I guess it would be a four-part sequence before actual exposure if you did not use MLU with the press of the button - with the LS having to close and then open again, and the FS having to open, and the mirror going up - how can you get a sharp image at all that way, ha! Guess you just need to add more gin....Guy I would be really interested to hear what one of those guys says about it....
    Well, there is the relationship between the amount of gin consumed, body mass, Tripod mass, MUP LS etc. and the degree to which one cares about sharpness.
    At 110 mm and a decent tripod and head, the primary shutter vibrations might actually have died down enough by the time the leaf shutter closes then re-opens to not make a difference at all. At 300mm on the other hand, it might be a bit more important. It sounds to me that a well controlled series of tests might be in order but the gin ought to be omitted as much as I find that idea repugnant.
    -bob

  14. #64
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I will see if Doug can find out the whole process. Be interesting to hear how it is done. I need to get out and just try it with the new lens. LOL
    Guy, you can see and hear it.
    Look into my lens LOL
    -bob

  15. #65
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, Canada
    Posts
    2,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    184

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    FWIW I did ask this question of a Phase engineer - Claus Molgaard - and he confirmed that the FP shutter opens immediately before the leaf shutter. As Bob says, you can see it and hear it too!
    Bill

  16. #66
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Yes, I double checked the actual operation of the shutters by looking into the lens. Indeed, the focal plane shutter fires before the leaf shutter, and not when the mirror is locked up. However, the images "seem" to be just a tad sharper when using the leaf shutter than when using the focal plane shutter, but I have not actually tested with resolution charts.

  17. #67
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Well my 55mm is on it's way hopefully soon I can buy the 110mm.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  18. #68
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, Canada
    Posts
    2,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    184

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Be very interested in your assessment of the 55, Guy.

    I doubt I'll go for the 110 because I have the 120D and rarely use flash. But I do like the Schneider optics in the 80 and 55 LS lenses. The helicoid seems smoother than my Phasmiya lenses too.

    Keep us posted!

    Bill

  19. #69
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Thanks Bill looking forward to it. My only issue is my P40+ back is on it's way home to the mother ship to get the hardware upgrade so I am without the back till maybe late next week or so. Which is fine I want to upgrade my back anyway
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  20. #70
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    I have used the 110LS on three shoots now and I have to admit that as far as studio shooting is concerned it has become my new body-cap.
    With a P65+ it is just a nearly perfect all-around focal length. Close-in head-shots are just about the only situation where I find myself looking for a few more mm.
    Good work Schneider/Phase
    -bob

  21. #71
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    What Bob said. I've had mine for about three weeks and it is an awesome lens. I was concerned the 110 would be a little short and not enough longer than the 80 to be really useful, but in use it is just a very sweet focal on full frame. Ditto the 55, thought it wouldn't be quite wide enough, but turns out to be in a really sweet-spot focal. The trio covers about 90% of my needs, and they all render similarly and beautifully.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  22. #72
    Porpoise
    Guest

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Actually, it does and it doesn't.
    The lens does not creep in the AF position, only the MF position (much as my 80D will do).
    When in AF, this particular lens will simply allow you to set the af lock, but keep on focusing away with the focus ring with no problem and no creep.
    The problem shows also with the use of extension tubes which interrupt the connection between the lens and the focus motor. In that case it does not help.
    -bob
    On page 30 of the 645DF User Guide is written:
    "While the camera is operated in auto focus mode, lenses without the focus mode selector ring will automatically be in auto focus. Do not touch the focus ring as you may cause internal damage to the camera auto focus motor."
    Is this only a problem during autofocusing, or also afterwards when AF is locked?

  23. #73
    geyerstudio
    Guest

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    The following three images of Erin were all taken on the same day with a 110mm LS on a IQ180 (that B3K digital in Toronto kindly provided since mine had not arrived yet All have benefited from some processing in c1. I love this lens but did decide to pick up the 150mm 2.8 for a bit more compression.




    and



    and


  24. #74
    Googaliser
    Guest

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Certainly wasn't expecting that whilst enjoying my early morning coffee in the office and reading about the 110...

  25. #75
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Looks good to me. I particularly noticed the lack of distortion with the bricks and doorway, oh and err, nice skin tones.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  26. #76
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Porpoise View Post
    On page 30 of the 645DF User Guide is written:
    "While the camera is operated in auto focus mode, lenses without the focus mode selector ring will automatically be in auto focus. Do not touch the focus ring as you may cause internal damage to the camera auto focus motor."
    Is this only a problem during autofocusing, or also afterwards when AF is locked?
    It is not a problem at at least for me.
    When the AF coupling is disengaged, there is no mechanical restraint to the motion of the focus rung other than internal friction. That is why is creeps. It might be a problem in a copy-table setup if manual focus were desired.
    -bob

  27. #77
    Porpoise
    Guest

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    It is not a problem at at least for me.
    When the AF coupling is disengaged, there is no mechanical restraint to the motion of the focus rung other than internal friction. That is why is creeps. It might be a problem in a copy-table setup if manual focus were desired.
    -bob
    As a solution against that creeping it was suggested: "... to set the af lock, but keep on focusing away with the focus ring ...". However, the user guide seems to warn that this might cause damage to the AF motor. Now I am wondering about the correct answer with respect to the 110 mm LS:
    A Nonsense, you can't kill the AF motor by turning the focus ring in any smart design.
    B You're safe as long as the AF motor is kept passive with AFL.
    C The camera might explode if you ever dare to touch the focus ring in AF mode.
    Anybody?

    PS To which part of the title of this thread are those last pictures referring to?

  28. #78
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Porpoise View Post
    As a solution against that creeping it was suggested: "... to set the af lock, but keep on focusing away with the focus ring ...". However, the user guide seems to warn that this might cause damage to the AF motor. Now I am wondering about the correct answer with respect to the 110 mm LS:
    A Nonsense, you can't kill the AF motor by turning the focus ring in any smart design.
    B You're safe as long as the AF motor is kept passive with AFL.
    C The camera might explode if you ever dare to touch the focus ring in AF mode.
    Anybody?

    PS To which part of the title of this thread are those last pictures referring to?
    A most likely
    As for bad thoughts, I don't know what you are talking about.
    -bob

  29. #79
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Phase 110mm LS / Having bad thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I took the 110LS on a morning tour around town.
    Leaves, Wayland Library

    The color rendition is just a touch less green than the 120 Macro and this is very slight
    -bob
    "........a touch less green ......

    I wouldn't "touch" at alll- that poison ivy!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •