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Thread: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

  1. #51
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Another one no adjustments at 800 . i shot a lot at 800 just for fun and there really nice looking with regards to noise
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    One more at 800
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    P25 non Plus even looks very good at ISO 400 and i expect better with the Plus series
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    Jack,
    Am I seeing red and green chroma blobs in the hair behind the ears on your statue sample crop? Or did I just have too much wine with dinner?
    Eric
    I think that may just be a patina on the statue, but cannot say for certain.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Hope this helps , it was a little hard running hard tests when putting on a workshop at the same time but this certainly helped me making a decision between the 2 backs. I am pretty happy with the P25 non plus here at 400 so it can only get better. For some folks this means nothing because they will shoot at the lower ISO and so will i in most cases but there is not a chance in hell i could have done that fashion stuff at ISO 100 with no lighting and overcast skies and such. Sometimes the high ISO are make or break situations and i like to know i can tap that when i need it. Now as far as release time I noticed when shooting the fashion 1.25 seconds on the P30 plus could have been faster for me and the P25 plus is 1.5 and you can feel the difference sometimes. For fashion guys and wedding shooters and such this will be a decision call on camera / back speed and for some not even a thought. So depending what and how you are working some of this may mean nothing but I like to know the break down points so when your in the soup you can dig your butt out of it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Just FYI these are all processed in C1 with sharpening disabled and at defaults or as noted
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Oop's just found a P25 non plus Iso 800
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Thanks for posting these, Guy. They are helpful in trying to make a determination on what I want/need to think about in terms of MF.

    Kurt

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy, thank you for these. To me, these look very usable at 800 and even 1600. Even the the noise which we see at 1600 will likely disappear (or reduce greatly) when an image is printed. The P30+ is quite impressive.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Yes and even the 1600 it looks to me they would clean up even better in a NN program or some more fine tweaking in C1. Also I noticed in better light the files look even better. So this gives you some real options. One for me is how much do i really need Nikon in my family. Yes i have some stuff but this may reduce some also. One thing I was just chatting with Jack about was the Horseman SWDII with 35mm digitar lens that you can get with the P25 or 45 Plus backs. With the Horseman it is almost like a P&S with a Rangefinder viewer . For me I can almost sell my 35mm Mamiya ,my 150 4.5 and 200 2.8 manual focus manual stop down and go after the New Mamiya 150 2.8 D with AF and no stop down. This would give me a new lens kit with some of the best glass. Certainly giving me cause for thought. I am getting the Horseman for sure. Plus this makes for a amazing stitching camera. I can do a 4 shot stitch real easy with it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Great stuff, Guy.

    For my typical applications, the shot of the guy in front of the dark, torn out store front (post #50), is very intriguing. At first blush I would have expected more noise back in the shadows, but see that it handled it very well.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Me too , I thought would be a tell tale area of noise
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Hope this helps , it was a little hard running hard tests when putting on a workshop at the same time but this certainly helped me making a decision between the 2 backs. I am pretty happy with the P25 non plus here at 400 so it can only get better. For some folks this means nothing because they will shoot at the lower ISO and so will i in most cases but there is not a chance in hell i could have done that fashion stuff at ISO 100 with no lighting and overcast skies and such. Sometimes the high ISO are make or break situations and i like to know i can tap that when i need it. Now as far as release time I noticed when shooting the fashion 1.25 seconds on the P30 plus could have been faster for me and the P25 plus is 1.5 and you can feel the difference sometimes. For fashion guys and wedding shooters and such this will be a decision call on camera / back speed and for some not even a thought. So depending what and how you are working some of this may mean nothing but I like to know the break down points so when your in the soup you can dig your butt out of it.
    Guy you probably could have gained a little more speed when shooting the fashion by a little by setting the capture format to IIQS from IIQL.
    The Raw files are smaller and have slightly more compression. Of course IIQL is preferred because of the lossless compression, but sometimes I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two formats.
    Here is a handy table to give a reference as to the size of the RAW formats on all of the PhaseOne models:
    Phase One Digital Back File Size Reference
    Back ↑IIQ S* IIQ L* 8-bit TIFF 16-bit TIFF
    P45+ 31 47 117 234
    P30+ 25 37 93 186
    P25+ 17 26 66 132
    P21+ 15 22 64 128
    P20+ 13 19 48 96

    all sizes are in MB.

    Lance Schad
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Lance that is great to know and yes that may have helped a little. The trick is having good pace and i had that going , sometimes you just want to hit the damn button. LOL

    But this little trick may have made it a touch faster. Also maybe a faster card in the back may have helped also. Need to find that out which is the fastest 8gb CF card on the market.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lance that is great to know and yes that may have helped a little. The trick is having good pace and i had that going , sometimes you just want to hit the damn button. LOL

    But this little trick may have made it a touch faster. Also maybe a faster card in the back may have helped also. Need to find that out which is the fastest 8gb CF card on the market.
    Guy,
    I started to look into this also. From what it looks like, Transcend, Delkin and SanDisk Extreme all have higher speed (UDMA) cards, and for the money, the Transcends are looking pretty good. The key to know is where the bottleneck really is. Usually that point is the camera writing to the card, so tests that show those real performances are important. I think Galbraith has updated some of his tests, but he does not test MFDBs from what I have seen, so that may be new ground for folks to start breaking. There seems to be a lot of variability across camera lines and cards, so testing may be in order to figure out what works best for your set-up, rather than card manufacturer "specs" that do not involve cameras.

    LJ

    P.S. Here is a link to some tests published by MyDigitalDiscount on the 16GB UDMA cards and readers. Looking like the Transcends and a FW800 reader are the most speed and best bang for the buck.

    http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/WSW...htm#tran300xvs
    Last edited by LJL; 19th May 2008 at 21:44.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    I have the new Delkin and it seems pretty fast . I will look at the Transcends . Had good luck with them with the M8
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy, also take a look at the SanDisk Extreme IV with their firewire 800 reader. Man, does that combo move some data around quickly! Using those and the Lexar Pro 300X cards both with my Leaf without any problems over the last few months with either.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    I have been using 8GB cards of Sandisk Extreme IV which are 266x speed and the faster Hoodman 8GB cards which are 300x speed, along with the Hoodman firewire 800 reader.

    No problems on my Nikon D3 or any of the Phase backs that I used in Puerto Rico.

    The Hoodman are more expensive. Right now you can get the Sandisk cards from B&H for $150, then you get a $50 rebate on each one. I believe this ends at the end of May so hurry.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Guy,
    I started to look into this also. From what it looks like, Transcend, Delkin and SanDisk Extreme all have higher speed (UDMA) cards, and for the money, the Transcends are looking pretty good. The key to know is where the bottleneck really is. Usually that point is the camera writing to the card, so tests that show those real performances are important. I think Galbraith has updated some of his tests, but he does not test MFDBs from what I have seen, so that may be new ground for folks to start breaking. There seems to be a lot of variability across camera lines and cards, so testing may be in order to figure out what works best for your set-up, rather than card manufacturer "specs" that do not involve cameras.

    LJ

    P.S. Here is a link to some tests published by MyDigitalDiscount on the 16GB UDMA cards and readers. Looking like the Transcends and a FW800 reader are the most speed and best bang for the buck.

    http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/WSW...htm#tran300xvs

    The UDMA interface inside the P+ backs can write at maximum speed allowed by the UDMA spec, which is about twice as fast as the Extreme IV cards, so if and when there are extreme V cards they will go even faster
    in other words, the back is not the bottleneck and won't be for at least one more generation.

    L
    Lance Schad
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  20. #70
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Great , my Horseman SWDII just came . Now this is cool stuff. This is going to be fun. Just FYI folks Lance and CI are a dream team to work with. They are on top of everything to get me running fast , even e-mails from Phase One welcoming me to the club. This is what I call REAL Professional service. My P25 Plus shipped today so wait time was very short but I have a back here to use until than. I need to work and they had gear in my hands ready to do that. Just flat out great service. My impression is these folks from the different systems will jump through hoops to get you going, gotta love that
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy,

    Congratulations on the receipt of the new gear.

    I believe you still have the Mamiya back, is that correct? Is there a chance that you'll give us a few A-B comparisons between the Mamiya and the Phase, once you receive the P1 back? I'm hoping to learn if I can live with entry-level solution for a while or if I should wait until I can step up a bit. Timing isn't good for me to get something much beyond the Mamiya solution (or a used setup in a similar range), so I'm watching all of this very closely. I know what I want, but I'm going to have to take the journey in steps.

  22. #72
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Dale , Jim Collum bought the Mamiya ZD back for his IR work but this shot is just flat out scary. Shot this today at ISO 200 with the P25 that Lance loaned me until mine gets here Monday. Shot with a 150 Mamiya lens at 9.5. I need to airbrush no doubt but the detail is killing me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  23. #73
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Than this one is WB to a Macbeth color checker
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  24. #74
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Moire pattern is NOT there at 100 percent just the effect of downsizing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Amazing detail, Guy. It looks like you have a bit of moire' on the jacket, but that can be fixed.

    I'm not having a problem recognizing the quality in the P1 and similarly priced backs. I just need to do a side-by-side with the Mamiya to help decide if I should enjoy the Mamiya for a while (more affordable point of entry), or wait until I can get the next level up of back.

    I won't be doing portraits or studio stuff, and I'm still trying to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each of these backs, as they pertain to application.

  26. #76
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Heehee. I typed too slow and you posted about the moire' before I got my post in.


  27. #77
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Everything looks really nice here in the color checker
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  28. #78
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy, try resizing the image in steps by halving the resolution a few times first. Should avoid the moire that way.

  29. #79
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    I think the ZD is really nice also and Jack maybe able to post some more shots. I found the Zd lost a touch in the highlight details at the defaults but could be brought back in. The ZD is slow and ISO 200 is really the Max in my book and even has some noise but 50 and 100 are good and if you can wait 4 seconds for a review than it is a great entry point into MF. I think to chip away at this is get the new Phase One /Mamiya AFD-III body and buy a existing ZD but I would be careful because the ZD could be upgraded anytime soon here. We are starting to get close to Phtokinia and they may come out with a new back. Now right now if you went with any Phase back they are offering a free Phase One body and 80mm lens. That is a 5k value , others as well like Aptus are offering the same. So if you want to see what Lance can do here i suggest getting a quote and see if it is workable. The P30 Plus is about 1k less than the P25 plus so that may help also. It honestly is not as bad as it seems becuae the glass is not that expensive either until you get the D series but this is a 550 dollar 150mm used lens. Which I am going to sell to get the new 150mm 2.8D lens when it comes out plus there is a ton of used Mamiya glass out there even in AF style
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  30. #80
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Guy, try resizing the image in steps by halving the resolution a few times first. Should avoid the moire that way.
    Thanks Graham did not know that one , learn something everyday around here. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  31. #81
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    But really any of the 22mpx or 31mpx backs are all going to relatively the same with regards to detail and such. More functions and other things will be more of the consideration. I went for Phase for all the things I was looking for system, service, compatibility , functions , speed and all that plus i like C1. So it was a easy decision. Just a matter of money but in the end it really was not much more than any Leica system and actually maybe less. i don't like to count to much, it hurts. LOL
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think the ZD is really nice also and Jack maybe able to post some more shots. I found the Zd lost a touch in the highlight details at the defaults but could be brought back in. The ZD is slow and ISO 200 is really the Max in my book and even has some noise but 50 and 100 are good and if you can wait 4 seconds for a review than it is a great entry point into MF. I think to chip away at this is get the new Phase One /Mamiya AFD-III body and buy a existing ZD but I would be careful because the ZD could be upgraded anytime soon here. We are starting to get close to Phtokinia and they may come out with a new back. Now right now if you went with any Phase back they are offering a free Phase One body and 80mm lens. That is a 5k value , others as well like Aptus are offering the same. So if you want to see what Lance can do here i suggest getting a quote and see if it is workable. The P30 Plus is about 1k less than the P25 plus so that may help also. It honestly is not as bad as it seems becuae the glass is not that expensive either until you get the D series but this is a 550 dollar 150mm used lens. Which I am going to sell to get the new 150mm 2.8D lens when it comes out plus there is a ton of used Mamiya glass out there even in AF style
    Guy

    I had and still have the Mamiya 711 and the entire Mamiya lens lineup for it. The 43mm lens for that camera is absolutely as good as any other lens I have seen and that includes my new 40 CFE IF! I think it is incredible that people are getting so polarized about Zeiss glass vs Mamiya (and lord knows I have over 15K tied up in my Zeiss V and FE lenses so I have every reason to be polar about this LOL). Mamiya always has produced good glass that was built in a way to be less expensive. Plus at that price points they had broad appeal so got the economies of scale to be profitable at their prices. Like all brands you have to be selective as not every piece of glass is a standard bearer but if you pick the right ones you will have a winner. JMHO YMMV

    Woody

  33. #83
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks Graham did not know that one , learn something everyday around here. LOL
    Let me know if it works for this image. I'm curious

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Thanks, Guy. This is kind of along my thinking. I've had something come up that is putting a wrench in my process, so I'm looking at the affordable entry options first. This forum has been incredibly helpful to me in this process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think the ZD is really nice also and Jack maybe able to post some more shots. I found the Zd lost a touch in the highlight details at the defaults but could be brought back in. The ZD is slow and ISO 200 is really the Max in my book and even has some noise but 50 and 100 are good and if you can wait 4 seconds for a review than it is a great entry point into MF. I think to chip away at this is get the new Phase One /Mamiya AFD-III body and buy a existing ZD but I would be careful because the ZD could be upgraded anytime soon here. We are starting to get close to Phtokinia and they may come out with a new back. Now right now if you went with any Phase back they are offering a free Phase One body and 80mm lens. That is a 5k value , others as well like Aptus are offering the same. So if you want to see what Lance can do here i suggest getting a quote and see if it is workable. The P30 Plus is about 1k less than the P25 plus so that may help also. It honestly is not as bad as it seems becuae the glass is not that expensive either until you get the D series but this is a 550 dollar 150mm used lens. Which I am going to sell to get the new 150mm 2.8D lens when it comes out plus there is a ton of used Mamiya glass out there even in AF style

  35. #85
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Okay I lowered it 3 times let's see if it happens. Funny thing is i do not see it in C1 at any percentage
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  36. #86
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Not there , nice trick. Notice i have a focal shutter issue with this older AFD I body on the Sync setting . The other portrait i shot at 1/90 . Must be this body which is a loaner.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Very cool. Much better. I learned something (again) here. Thanks, Graham.

  38. #88
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Guy

    I had and still have the Mamiya 711 and the entire Mamiya lens lineup for it. The 43mm lens for that camera is absolutely as good as any other lens I have seen and that includes my new 40 CFE IF! I think it is incredible that people are getting so polarized about Zeiss glass vs Mamiya (and lord knows I have over 15K tied up in my Zeiss V and FE lenses so I have every reason to be polar about this LOL). Mamiya always has produced good glass that was built in a way to be less expensive. Plus at that price points they had broad appeal so got the economies of scale to be profitable at their prices. Like all brands you have to be selective as not every piece of glass is a standard bearer but if you pick the right ones you will have a winner. JMHO YMMV

    Woody

    I think Woody we are so tuned to buying the best lenses in 35mm because we are pushing so hard for image quality and when we get to MF that really becomes a non issue. Yes lens matters here but does not seem as important than 35mm. Every lens I have is not expensive but man the results are. Now there not built like Leica's or Rollie and Hassy but they can produce nice images. I am finding this part out to be very interesting and I think it is because we are not trying to squeeze such a small portion of the lens sweet spot
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  39. #89
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Very cool. Much better. I learned something (again) here. Thanks, Graham.
    You're welcome. I had to work that one out for myself

  40. #90
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Graham you get the tip of the week award. Thanks my friend
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  41. #91
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy,

    Mamiya already announced another ZD back with double the buffer as the only noted upgrade due out this summer or there after. That was posted on Mamiya Japan website months back. Faster saving of the files, faster image review and a better screen would make the ZD back a top contender, but I don't think we will see any of those upgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think the ZD is really nice also and Jack maybe able to post some more shots. I found the Zd lost a touch in the highlight details at the defaults but could be brought back in. The ZD is slow and ISO 200 is really the Max in my book and even has some noise but 50 and 100 are good and if you can wait 4 seconds for a review than it is a great entry point into MF. I think to chip away at this is get the new Phase One /Mamiya AFD-III body and buy a existing ZD but I would be careful because the ZD could be upgraded anytime soon here. We are starting to get close to Phtokinia and they may come out with a new back. Now right now if you went with any Phase back they are offering a free Phase One body and 80mm lens. That is a 5k value , others as well like Aptus are offering the same. So if you want to see what Lance can do here i suggest getting a quote and see if it is workable. The P30 Plus is about 1k less than the P25 plus so that may help also. It honestly is not as bad as it seems becuae the glass is not that expensive either until you get the D series but this is a 550 dollar 150mm used lens. Which I am going to sell to get the new 150mm 2.8D lens when it comes out plus there is a ton of used Mamiya glass out there even in AF style

  42. #92
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Thanks John did not know that was announced.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  43. #93
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks Graham did not know that one , learn something everyday around here. LOL
    Uh, my websize action already does that automatically and it will work perfectly well on your P25 files!

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  44. #94
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Kinda funny how Jack holds these little "secrets" back from Guy, eh?


  45. #95
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Yea i am going to have to smack him. LOL

    If I can reach 6' 6 "
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #96
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Kinda funny how Jack holds these little "secrets" back from Guy, eh?

    Nothing held back, it's just I know what is worth splainin to him and what isn't
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  47. #97
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Wanted to show you this color chart . Handles color very well here and a real red. BTW WB Kelvin on this is exactly 5600 and tint -2
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #98
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    Re: Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

    Guy, that looks quite good on my display. I'm under 5000K lights, but the comparison to a card is very close.

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