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Thread: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

  1. #51
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/PPR View Post
    Victor:

    I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

    First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

    *larger, brighter viewfinder
    *ergonomically adjustable grip
    *the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter
    *advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come
    *flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second
    *access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more
    *45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree
    *readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition
    *parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years

    If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

    Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

    Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

    The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

    All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

    As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

    BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

    Steve Hendrix
    www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
    Steve, you have to stop confusing the issue with the facts ....

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    For those who expressed an interest in the difficulties I've had with my Sinar Hy6/75LV kit I've prepared the list below. As will be evident after reading it, most of the problems are learning curve related. The others should be addressed when I receive the new and updated back. My friends who were with me at the San Juan workshop were helpful and supportive during this teething phase. (That is, when they weren't torturing me with jokes like: Hey David, too bad you don't have any images to edit during the one on one sessions ) Frankly, having these problems during the workshop was probably the best thing that could have happened. I had knowlegeable professionals to discuss things with. There's a lot of good natured rivalry between the different manufacturers but I think it's worth mentioning that Lance, from Capture Integration, spent a good deal of time with me trying to help with a product that is a direct competitor to his. He helped with the formatting of the CF card that went bad and was kind enough to rotate the back in the wrong direction for me. Just kidding

    Problem: Corrupted images when transferring from internal memory to CF card.
    Cause: Removed card from back before it was finished with transfer.
    Comment: The light showing that this process is ongoing is inside the door where the CF card is located and is not the same light that shows the back is busy during normal operation. Now that I know where it is, this won't happen again.


    Problem: Corrupted images when shooting to CF card
    Cause: Ridata 8GB card is apparently not compatible with this back even after being formatted in camera.
    Comment: The image on the screen does not show that the files are bad. New cards should be tested to see if they are compatible. No problems with my San Disk Ducati cards. Additional protection available by shooting to CF card and backing up to internal memory.

    Problem: Images not captured after revolving back to portrait mode.
    Cause: The back mounts to the camera when rotating either clockwise or counterclockwise but only takes images if rotated correctly. The contacts need to be lined up when rotating the back.
    Comment: Probably should be addressed at the design stage but it won't happen to me again.

    Problem: Inadvertent changing of Aperture setting when shooting in Aperture Priority mode.
    Cause: The wheel that changes the aperture setting is very close to the shutter release button and it is quite easy to turn it by accident. This setting can be locked with appropriate programing of the soft key but it does not stay locked when the camera goes to sleep.
    Comment: Not sure if this is a malfunction on my camera but, if not, should be fixed with a firmware update.

    Problem: Importing images into eXposure Software
    Cause: Not intuitive (for me) how this was done. The import tab is not visible until after the import is complete.
    Comment: Better instructions would be nice. Simple and elegant conversion once you get the images imported

    Problem: Inadvertent change of exposure mode.
    Cause: Fumbling fingers.
    Comment: Seems to me there should be a locking mechanism to prevent this like there is on the Nikon D3 or the Leica R9, or alternatively, to have the ability to remove the control of these items to the menu system as can be done when shooting tethered.

    Problem: Screen color does not match WB setting.
    Cause: Apparently need to WB with an image shot to internal memory.
    Comment: Leave a few images shot under different lighting on on the 6GB internal memory and select one for WB before shooting. Would prefer not having to do this, but not the end of the world either.

    Problem: Incorrectly exposed images
    Cause: Improper setting (my fault) in menu which locks exposure until changed.
    Comment: Better instructions in the manual are needed. IMHO, this setting should return to default, i.e. unlocked after the back is powered off.

    Problem: Higher ISO shots exhibit excessive noise.
    Comment: Should be addressed with delivery of new and upgraded back.

    To conclude this rather long winded post there is nothing wrong with system that should give a prospective purchaser concern about buying it. Also, keep in mind that this is a list of only the problems I've run into, and not a list of the positive aspects of the system. The good images I've taken at ISO 100 are nothing short of spectacular. If any of the folks that pm'd me have additional questions that I haven't addressed please feel free to contact me again. I'm happy to share whatever knowledge I've picked up along the way. BTW, got another two emails today from Sinar folks offering their assistance. Last point... thanks again to Jack and Guy for hosting this forum. What a great community we have here.

  3. #53
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/PPR View Post
    Victor:

    I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

    First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

    *larger, brighter viewfinder
    *ergonomically adjustable grip
    *the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter
    *advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come
    *flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second
    *access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more
    *45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree
    *readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition
    *parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years

    If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

    Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

    Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

    The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

    All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

    As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

    BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

    Steve Hendrix
    www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
    Damn Steve i look at that shot and i am starting to shake. from the gear heads we just can't handle that much sex in one photo.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    For those who expressed an interest in the difficulties I've had with my Sinar Hy6/75LV kit I've prepared the list below...
    Thanks for posting and setting our minds at rest. I was a little concerned that you were having hardware difficulties (and I plan to get a Hy6 too eventually) but we all have a few teething problems like these on the first day or two.

    Happy shooting!

  5. #55
    Fred Ragland
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Thanks for posting and setting our minds at rest. I was a little concerned that you were having hardware difficulties (and I plan to get a Hy6 too eventually) but we all have a few teething problems like these on the first day or two.

    Happy shooting!
    Yes, thank you David for taking the time to share your startup experiences with us.

    Fred

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Chiming in to express my thanks to David as well, for his informative and humble post.

    All of this shared information is incredibly valuable to those of us looking to enter the MFDB realm.

    Cheers

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/PPR View Post
    Victor:

    I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

    First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

    *larger, brighter viewfinder (I use MAxwell improves finder 2 stops)
    *ergonomically adjustable grip (subjective. The contax grip works just fine)
    *the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter (no, you can just take the image, but it will take time for AE and AF, as will any sleeping camera)
    *advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come (dont need. actually use MF mostly)
    *flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second (again, rather have the 1/4000)
    *access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more (the HB; yes, I agree)
    *45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree (contax finders are small and work well)
    *readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition (yes, of course)
    *parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years (ditto)

    If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

    Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

    Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

    The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

    All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

    As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

    BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

    Steve Hendrix
    www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
    I don't see any more of interest in your list, for me.

    Now on size, WOW, that tells it all.

    The Contax is clearly smaller (only Mamiya is similar, yet fatter in the middriff :-)

    Think of cube. If the Contax is only 10-20 % smaller in any dimasion that translates to 1.1 **3 to 1.2**3 or a factor of of 33 to 73% overall 'cube" increase.

    You know, It's a bit like rooting for you favorite team; we have our brand favorites and we defend and yell and argue.

    but, know what? it's all MAJOR LEAGUE. the MF stuff is all great compared to what we had when I was growing up (though B&W view cameras did some pretty amazing things!

    ANyway, It gets all the opinions out there and mixes stuff up. Always good to get new ideas, and I assume the Contax will NOT be my last camera

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    A very interesting thread indeed! Glad to hear that your issues were teething problems David - happy shooting!

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Same here!
    I was starting to get a bit worried,if I had gone the right direction too!
    Cheers,
    Willem.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    David,

    Thanks so much for your very informative post! It reminds me that moving to MF is not a small thing, but I'm convinced it will be worthwhile.

    Best,

    Mitchell

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Now I should point out that the Sinar is a complex machine too so you really have to RTFM because it baffled all of us on site. To me this is a engineer's dream camera and it is gorgeous but the last time I looked i was a photographer not a engineer. Let's keep things in perspective. I was handed 3 Phase backs and was running in 1 minute not to say anything here but sometimes simplicity rules the roost. This depends on what you want and how you like certain things to function and where they are placed. This is all personal choice here and no system is the best for everyone. The Sinar is on top of the food chain in price when you start adding the system together that does not always translate into the best working machine. I find the system as a system clunky to some degree and needs some refinement in software and this 3rd party software. I don't know the whole system in's and out's but from my seat there was a little head scratching going on. i do think even though Thierry jumped in and others from Sinar they need to look at there US operation closely because no one from Florida showed up to help if you know my meaning. Luckily it was not me i would have thrown it under a bus at the time. The question is do you have time to lose images and get frustrated. i don't want to sweep this under the carpet but i do want everyone to be aware also. Does no one any good saying all is fine when the guy struggled his *** off on my workshop that he paid a lot of money to be there also. I was there folks and i was not happy for him. This is not a dig against Sinar but let's be honest time, it's new and it needs refinement. I came from the DMR and M8 and if anyone knows this it is me. not saying do not buy a Sinar far from it but know how the system works before you drop your load and make sure it fits you and your style. This goes for any system and there all good just which one is the most comfortable to sleep with every night.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    If you ask me the back that's really confusing is the Leaf. First off you have to look at it to use it since its a touch screen and it has a bazillion features which are all probably wonderful to use, but not so easy to get familiar with it. I dislike the touch screen since you can't really operate it while doing something else like I can the phase. After using it a few times, I could glance up a the model or multiplex while formating cards or whatever with the phase. It's a tiny thing but makes a difference.

    Surprised to hear anything but praise on the Hy6 camera because when I shot with it, everything fell to hand directly and seemed very intuitive to me, though admittedly I did not try any of the advanced features like focus trap.

    I expect to eventually give up my 6008 and migrate to the Hy6 so good to hear the user feedback.

    A good pair of shoes does not break in as fast but wears longer.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    There was certainly something to be said for the simplicity of the Phase menus. took less than a minute (seriously) to set the back up exactly the way you wanted it, and as Guy said, that was without reading any manual.

    The issue with the Hy6 was the fact it was easy to inadvertently move a button and change a setting because none of the buttons lock...
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  14. #64
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Victor,

    WAS? I hope it still is!



    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post

    That said-The ISO Sinar was impressive

    Victor

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    No question the Sinar is impressive but do know how to work it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    If you ask me the back that's really confusing is the Leaf. First off you have to look at it to use it since its a touch screen and it has a bazillion features which are all probably wonderful to use, but not so easy to get familiar with it. I dislike the touch screen since you can't really operate it while doing something else like I can the phase. After using it a few times, I could glance up a the model or multiplex while formating cards or whatever with the phase. It's a tiny thing but makes a difference.

    Surprised to hear anything but praise on the Hy6 camera because when I shot with it, everything fell to hand directly and seemed very intuitive to me, though admittedly I did not try any of the advanced features like focus trap.

    I expect to eventually give up my 6008 and migrate to the Hy6 so good to hear the user feedback.

    A good pair of shoes does not break in as fast but wears longer.
    Funny, I thought it would take a monkey about 20 seconds to learn how to operate a Leaf Aptus back ... even though it took me 30 seconds ... LOL.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Funny, I thought it would take a monkey about 20 seconds to learn how to operate a Leaf Aptus back ... even though it took me 30 seconds ... LOL.
    It would have to be a rich monkey... probably smarter than the average monkey I find it interesting, especially based on my recent experience, how some people find certain things intuitive and others just don't see it as easily.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    What I'm finding not so intuitive is the ability to become one of those monkeys from the rich barrel so that I can afford an even more expensive back.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Opinions about this or that are quite common gentlemen - wouldn't you agree?

    I like a balanced perspective put out there - too much fan boy stuff sometimes.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Now on size, WOW, that tells it all.

    The Contax is clearly smaller (only Mamiya is similar, yet fatter in the middriff :-)

    Think of cube. If the Contax is only 10-20 % smaller in any dimasion that translates to 1.1 **3 to 1.2**3 or a factor of of 33 to 73% overall 'cube" increase.
    It's funny what different eyes see...they all look pretty much identical in size to me. The Contax and Hasselblad seemed larger and clunkier in person to me than the Hy6, but again, everyone's eyes and hands are different. The Hy6 feels nicest to me, but I don't own any of them, so I suppose it doesn't really make a difference.

  21. #71
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Here some other comparison views, under the eye of a H3D user, "khun_k" on LL (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...ic=17771&st=0=)

    Admitted, the Hy6 does not show the 90 prism as on the other cameras, but it gives however a good idea of sizes.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

  22. #72
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    This is really a hoot!

    I though it was only in statistics that you could prove anything you wanted
    Nope---photography.

    Now, when we show comparisons of the contax, can we take off the battery, pack, extra grip and the "L" bracket?

    here again is what it really looks like..

    BTW (watch, ad hominum argument coming) I have no financial, sales or resale interest in Contax. I don't need to justify a purchase to myself or anyone else. I have owned for over 4 years and it is written off.

    Why do I argue for people to consider it? Because I think it is damn good, and deserves to be exposed to forum members who maybe can't afford the new high prices, or maybe appreciate the IQ that the system provides. Many others tout and show there stuff. Well, I'll show the Contax. I would hope others do as well. If you think something is is oversaturated, oversharpened or miss developed in raw, hell, I'll send you the raw and you can see for yourself.

    Anyway, so far it is normal male arm wrestling, so I will continue to spar, though it is a bit lonely in this corner.

    In the end, the real battle is between Hy6, H3D and Mamiya and Phase and Sinar and Leaf. But I still contend all the arguments are on features rather than basic quality, so for those that just want a solid basic system, the Contax (with Phase) is a great alternative.
    Last edited by gogopix; 25th January 2015 at 17:23.

  23. #73
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    why take away the extra grip and the battery pack?

    The Hy6 is shown as well with a grip and the battery is inside the grip.

    But as said by others, different eyes different interpretations: no harm with this, all have their value.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Now, when we show comparisons of the contax, can we take off the battery, pack, extra grip and the "L" bracket?

  24. #74
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I guess the takeaway in all these MF comparision images is that the Leica R9/DMR is really bloated. Funny I didn't think so last time I shot it.

    Marc,
    I didn't mean I couldn't figure it out, just that I didn't want to figure all that out and didn't like the touch screen. It's slow. Anyone out there give up a blackberry with full keypad to get an iphone? I swear I could type at least 3 times as fast while doing something else on the blackberry. Touch screens are slow IMHO. I can't complain about the big screen the leaf has though.

  25. #75
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Guy,

    with all due respect, the eMotion and the Hy6 aren't that complicated. There are a couple of things to get familiar with concerning the Hy6 body, agreed. I had to use the Hy6 body a few time as well to get used to it, and this is for most of the issues mentioned the "normal" learning curve.

    As for the eMotion, it has a self-explaining and user friendly menu which cannot lead to any major mistake, IMO. I don't think that it is any more complicated than a Phase One back menu, which I have used as well on many occasions.

    But as you said, this is all personal views and choices. It does not take away from the frustration for not being able to shoot during a workshop and I do frankly understand David's own frustration very well.

    FYI: I have got additional information this morning (Asian time) from Michael Ulsacker, the Sinar dealer, from Dave McRitchie, the SBI sales representative for the East Coast and from Greg King, SBI's manager: I believe this shows the level of commitment, support and service a Sinar customer is getting, all this in less than 24 hours.

    I feel myself sorry, that nobody from Sinar was attending this workshop as the Phase One dealer did, but I do not know the reason for this: may be they have not been informed or aware of this workshop and about the invitation to join?

    Thanks for your care and kind regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Now I should point out that the Sinar is a complex machine too so you really have to RTFM because it baffled all of us on site. To me this is a engineer's dream camera and it is gorgeous but the last time I looked i was a photographer not a engineer. Let's keep things in perspective. I was handed 3 Phase backs and was running in 1 minute not to say anything here but sometimes simplicity rules the roost. This depends on what you want and how you like certain things to function and where they are placed. This is all personal choice here and no system is the best for everyone. The Sinar is on top of the food chain in price when you start adding the system together that does not always translate into the best working machine. I find the system as a system clunky to some degree and needs some refinement in software and this 3rd party software. I don't know the whole system in's and out's but from my seat there was a little head scratching going on. i do think even though Thierry jumped in and others from Sinar they need to look at there US operation closely because no one from Florida showed up to help if you know my meaning. Luckily it was not me i would have thrown it under a bus at the time. The question is do you have time to lose images and get frustrated. i don't want to sweep this under the carpet but i do want everyone to be aware also. Does no one any good saying all is fine when the guy struggled his *** off on my workshop that he paid a lot of money to be there also. I was there folks and i was not happy for him. This is not a dig against Sinar but let's be honest time, it's new and it needs refinement. I came from the DMR and M8 and if anyone knows this it is me. not saying do not buy a Sinar far from it but know how the system works before you drop your load and make sure it fits you and your style. This goes for any system and there all good just which one is the most comfortable to sleep with every night.

  26. #76
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Well no way i am trying to hurt Sinar in any way shape or form. But I want folks to be aware of what the system is like and how the need to understand it and no question folks from Sinar jumped all over his situation. I don't like things overlooked either and folks need to know what there buying reason we talk about this stuff all day long. But to be honest Thierry i did not have to read a manual to shoot the Phase be it available or not. This is not about this vs that either which honestly i have no desire to even go down that route with any system. There all good IMHO but again I find my role sometimes to be outspoken and in no way do I want that to be construed as bad but just being upfront and I want people to do there homework and study things before they buy. After 35 years I still do it and i would be a fool not to understand everything I could when making a purchase. Water under the bridge at this point and the best news is Sinar came to the rescue and more than anything that is what I wanted to see happen.

    Now as far as the workshops CI asked us to come and Steve at PPR did as well. Since we had a small group this time we did not want to overload the attendees with too much product around. Next workshop Steve is invited as well as CI and Jack and I would love to have Sinar on board as well. The only concern we have is having enough folks on the workshop so it is a good venue and a more MF shooting style. But we would love to have all the MF gear in one place for folks to evaluate each system and make decisions. We are in planning stages right now for at least 4 workshops and also a huge excursion to Iceland. We feel having all this in one place makes it worth some ones time to come to a workshop and learn all they can before making a decision and also learn on the workshop on how to work better and be a better shooter. Our workshops are a kick in the pants and folks love to come to them for the fun , learning and friendships that are built.


    I also even thought about several other venues like a mini convention with seminars, product demo's and PS techniques and charge a reasonable fee for folks to attend for 2 days. A very mini PMA style .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I have to agree with Guy here. I think the Sinar has a logic to it once you have figured out how to use it, but it is not as intuitive as most other camera makers...I am talking about the back here, not the body. The body is pretty straightforward (at least it was for me). To give you an example, when I went in to test the Hy6, the dealer did not know how to change the ISO and could not figure it out , even after several minutes (to his credit, he asked me several times if he could get the Sinar rep to come to the demo, but I only wanted to see it very briefly, so I did not want to have the person drive all the way to NYC to help a possible buyer for 20 minutes). He had just received the camera, so he did not know it yet. I eventually figured it out, but it was NOT a straightforward process. Now, I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent guy and I have used many camera systems -- the dealer deals in Leaf, Hasselblad and Mamiya digital backs as well, so between us there was a lot of experience, yet both of us had difficulty changing basic settings. To me that is a sign that the menu system could be improved.

    And, please please please, do not take this as a dig at the system. I think it is a superb camera and back and if I could afford one I would buy it in a second, but there is definitely room for improvement in some aspects of the interface. This of course applies to all camera systems. To this day, I am driven to madness by the fact that the Mamiya 7II, such a brilliant camera, only lets you change the shutter and aperture in full stops! Unforgivable!

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I think Steve Hendrix already mentioned that he'd be in Orlando on June 13th (also with Dave McRitchie, regional manager for Sinar out of Edison, NJ). Steve asked me to look around for a host studio so maybe that lighting forum that you've been thinking about might be a possibility at the same time. Kind of short notice though to get things organized.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Stuart,
    I mentioned in another thread how interesting I find it that our respective intuitions differ. If you're an M8 user, having a separate Settings menu, is something that I've grown to like. Some folks don't like it at all IIRC from some of the M8 threads. Having internal storage does add a dimension (and menu settings) that other backs do not have. Whether that's a plus or minus depends on the user's preferences. On more than one occasion I've filled my 8GB CF card (not hard to do with these file sizes) and found that having the overflow to internal memory so that I could continue shooting without changing cards was a blessing.

  30. #80
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    You got me thinking David, we also have David at Dale labs with full studio space to host something. Heck i just volunteered him. LOL But yes a perfect venue for something like this with a lighting seminar and some models to shoot with all the backs. Hmmm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  31. #81
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I think I figured out my Sinar back in 5 mins. It didn't take long to do a tour of the menu and try a few things out. I can imagine the camera would take longer, and seeing both for the first time would take longer again.

  32. #82
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Alright, now I understand why they haven't been able to join.

    Would be definitively great to have them joining one of the next workshops.
    Thanks for that, Guy.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Now as far as the workshops CI asked us to come and Steve at PPR did as well. Since we had a small group this time we did not want to overload the attendees with too much product around. Next workshop Steve is invited as well as CI and Jack and I would love to have Sinar on board as well.

  33. #83
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    No question we would like to have them all being represented.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You got me thinking David, we also have David at Dale labs with full studio space to host something. Heck i just volunteered him. LOL But yes a perfect venue for something like this with a lighting seminar and some models to shoot with all the backs. Hmmm
    Actually, it's my friend, Andre, that has the studio ( tyestudios.com ) but it's only minutes away from Dale Labs. I'm sure I can help you work something out with them if you're interested. If you can't get a Sinar rep to attend I'll be happy to help out... although it might give Thierry a panic attack just thinking about it Side benefit is free lodging for you and Jack at my house.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Steve would kill three birds with one stone,
    representing Hasselblad, Leaf & Sinar.
    Plus, he knows each brand inside out, he's that good.

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    I think I figured out my Sinar back in 5 mins. It didn't take long to do a tour of the menu and try a few things out. I can imagine the camera would take longer, and seeing both for the first time would take longer again.
    Thanks Graham... as if I didn't feel dumb enough already

  37. #87
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Steve would kill three birds with one stone,
    representing Hasselblad, Leaf & Sinar.
    Plus, he knows each brand inside out, he's that good.
    Plus we have Lance for Phase that resides in Miami. That about covers everyone. This has real possibilites
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  38. #88
    thsinar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV



    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    ... although it might give Thierry a panic attack just thinking about it

  39. #89
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Great chance to learn studio lighting and get your darn homework done on these MF backs.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  40. #90
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Actually, it's my friend, Andre, that has the studio ( tyestudios.com ) but it's only minutes away from Dale Labs. I'm sure I can help you work something out with them if you're interested. If you can't get a Sinar rep to attend I'll be happy to help out... although it might give Thierry a panic attack just thinking about it Side benefit is free lodging for you and Jack at my house.
    I would like to do a two day with test models. Costs? Than we need 10 attendees. Hmmm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    No problema with models... lots of those in So. Fla.

  42. #92
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Guy, sounds nice. Also need to factor in some outdoor shooting time (morning or late afternoon outdoors, afternoon in the studio?) for potential first time users. I like the idea of the lighting demo tossed in as well. Shooting tethered demo in the studio would be a plus, also.

  43. #93
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    For those who expressed an interest in the difficulties I've had with my Sinar Hy6/75LV kit I've prepared the list below.
    Hi, David,

    Thank you for posting the list of issues you encountered. It is a help to those of us about to follow in your footsteps, regardless of cause.

    Most of all, I'm glad that you were able to get all of the critical issues addressed

    Best regards,
    Brad

  44. #94
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Guy, sounds nice. Also need to factor in some outdoor shooting time (morning or late afternoon outdoors, afternoon in the studio?) for potential first time users. I like the idea of the lighting demo tossed in as well. Shooting tethered demo in the studio would be a plus, also.
    Yes Charlie thinking about all of that , my worry is enough people
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Damn Steve i look at that shot and i am starting to shake. from the gear heads we just can't handle that much sex in one photo.
    Yeah, Steve,

    If I wanted to see porn like that I'd be at a different kind of website! There might have been children in the room! Warn us next time, OK??

    -Brad

  46. #96
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    BTW Jack and I are looking at this lighting workshop and MF demo gear as we speak. Getting all costs in and trying to see if this will work. We may have to push the date a week though, keep you all informed a lot to put together on short time frame. I would like Steve and Lance with all there gear , David at Dale with Printing stuff and such . If you have interest in this send me a quick PM so i can sort of start counting. Start date June 20th Friday evening until Sunday is what we are looking at
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yes Charlie thinking about all of that , my worry is enough people
    Guy

    I'm in

    Woody

  48. #98
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I've sent David and email and we are working this up right now.

    Woody, keep in mind we have to pay for studio space, lighting rental as well as enough models so photographers can work in pairs taking turns as photographer and assistant, so this workshop for a weekend will likely run more than our normal 4 day workshops do.

    Pricing and possible dates coming forthwith

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  49. #99
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    I have Lanced penciled in and if we can get Steve from PPR than we will have all the backs in one place and there gear to go with it. So for attendees this is worth it's weight in gold to try them all out and shoot some professional models plus learn all about lighting in the studio.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  50. #100
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    Re: Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I have Lanced penciled in and if we can get Steve from PPR than we will have all the backs in one place and there gear to go with it. So for attendees this is worth it's weight in gold to try them all out and shoot some professional models plus learn all about lighting in the studio.
    Folks this is what I know best is lighting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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