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A Comparison of Technical Cameras

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I swore I wouldn't get into this tempest, but what does EVF mean to you?

In the non-Arca world, it means electronic viewfinder. My understanding of what Arca makes is that it is a variable (or adjustable) version of a non-electronic viewing/framing device. Like a "son of Linhof Multifinder." Is that wrong?
Stephen,

In the Arca world all it means is External View Finder, which in fairness is what they call it. We (forum posters who are lazy writers and texters) have shortened it to EVF...
 

tjv

Active member
Framing and exposure can be done with a point & shoot camera. Jack posted about this on a thread he wrote about the Cambo. The camera that might be tailor made for this application is the Panasonic LX5. Small zoom range is 24-90 and you can set the zoom to step mode so the camera will stop at 24, 28, 35, 50,70, 90. Or a Micro 4/3 GF1.
Now that I think about it, an even better option would be live view using a descent LCD screen on the back... When pigs fly?
 

PeterA

Well-known member


This is the Alpa viewfinder - it comes with masks for each lens you purchase. It has an inbuilt diopter as well as a nice bubble level ( which when using wides you can see as you compose hand held even) It is used only for framing and it isn't cheap - but it works elegantly for that purpose as well as adding a most important ingredient to the mix - retro cool.

This is a free shooting machine - designed for those who like to shoot that way - hand held or on tripod. I don't need laser finders, light meters or prayer mats with this thing.:ROTFL:

I have even 'solved' the pinky poo issue that plagued my shooting with Hasselblad back on it - turns out the 'blad has pretty much the same issue as Phase One backs - needs waking up and needs to be shot within a specified time - so now I set back on flash sync, set time for 2 or three seconds, use the hasselblad external shutter release and make sure I take the pic within the 2 or 3 sec time period. After all this hassle - I get no pinky poos. Which makes me understand why Phase One is the most popular back and Alpa have designed the inbuilt cable release for the purpose - Leaf backs and Sinar backs don't need this rigmarole btw - and because the first back I used with teh Alpa was a Leaf - i couldn't figure out WHY I had "pinky poos" with 'blad.

This issue is different to lens caste issues which you get with wides on any set-up and requires a white shading reference file t eliminate - the issue becomes more important the more one wishes to use movements - especially with wide angle lenses.

* The information for Hasselblad users is on the Alpa site amd I got teh time to suss things out this weekend ( finally).
 
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tjv

Active member
Man, that is one INSANELY cool camera setup! I'm a real sucker for good looking engineering, just don't usually have the budget to meet my tastes.

So the general consensus is that Phase offers the best solution for use with a tech camera because of the wake up issues you describe? I've been thinking about the CFV39 for eventual use with an Alpa or such because I want to try avoid using my local Phase One importers at all costs. They're total clowns IMHO. That as the CFV seems good value for money. I write "thinking" because at this stage it's all "wishful thinking," but eventually it will happen. Just doing the groundwork research now.
 
S

smei_ch

Guest
Looks like Alpa very soon is going to present a Shutter release with integrated wakeup which will work with all backs that require it (PhaseOne and Hasselblad).

:)
 

Terry

New member
Looks like Alpa very soon is going to present a Shutter release with integrated wakeup which will work with all backs that require it (PhaseOne and Hasselblad).

:)
Not all Phase backs need a wake up. I can use the P40+ on zero latency without wake up. The downside is battery life and potentially noise is you keep the back on for a long time.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I refuse to make photographs with anythign that looks 'daggy' drive anything that isn't super cool, or use a tractor with less than 120 horsepower - life is to short:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Yep Terry I think the 40+ sounds like a great back - tempting - but am waiting for Photokina announcements before moving..I can see myself picking up a refurbished or like new P45+

The CFV is another example of Hasselblad doing me in - I bought my CFV11 new a couple of months before they 'discontinued' it an bought out the CFV - 39 for about the same bucks I spent on the CFV11 - great back, square chip - but only 16 megapixels

I agree on importance of dealers - all manufacturers have this territory thing going on - which may be fine for the US - but down here you end up with one dealer thousands of miles away with the franchise for a continent the size of -ummm we the size of the US or Europe...ad we all know just how well 'monopolies work for the customer dont we? :wtf:
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Looks like Alpa very soon is going to present a Shutter release with integrated wakeup which will work with all backs that require it (PhaseOne and Hasselblad).

:)

Here my ALPA12SWA + SCHNEIDER SUPERANGULON XL 5,6/72mm + HASSELBLAD CFV-39 . The camera has the current built in "wake up" solution .
A little release button in the left grip (for left handers only ?) which can not be seen here .
Works fine for hand held . A bit tricky , when working from a tripod .
Therefore I use the HASSELBLAD release cord H (3043370) when using a tripod . I am curious , what the new "wake up" will be .

View attachment 35282

I am leaving for Switzerland in about an hour for a couple of days . Unfortunately not ALPA-land . But they would not tell me anything about their PHOTOKINA new products anyway .
Understandable .
 

tjv

Active member
Peter, do C.R. Kennedy import Hasselblad in Australia as they do here in New Zealand? They are a small company here, and obviously can't carry a lot of stock, but are certainly better to deal with than our local Phase importer. Have you dealt with the Australian reps for Phase? I often think if I choose to take the plunge into MF land I should just fly to Sydney instead of Auckland to demo and buy, depending on exchange rates of the time.

I refuse to make photographs with anythign that looks 'daggy' drive anything that isn't super cool, or use a tractor with less than 120 horsepower - life is to short:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Yep Terry I think the 40+ sounds like a great back - tempting - but am waiting for Photokina announcements before moving..I can see myself picking up a refurbished or like new P45+

The CFV is another example of Hasselblad doing me in - I bought my CFV11 new a couple of months before they 'discontinued' it an bought out the CFV - 39 for about the same bucks I spent on the CFV11 - great back, square chip - but only 16 megapixels

I agree on importance of dealers - all manufacturers have this territory thing going on - which may be fine for the US - but down here you end up with one dealer thousands of miles away with the franchise for a continent the size of -ummm we the size of the US or Europe...ad we all know just how well 'monopolies work for the customer dont we? :wtf:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
TJV - C.R. Kennedy have the Hasseblad dealership - offices in Sydney and Melbourne. I haven't ever dealt with L&P ( Phase Dealers ) in Australia. It is a pity Leaf went with Phase Dealer in Australia - rather than the new Sinar Dealer - who is a fantastic bloke and a very knowledgeable photographer as well. Anyway I have my fingers crossed that Sinar brings out its own new big boy back in due course - especially after announcing their 85H multishot.

Peter, do C.R. Kennedy import Hasselblad in Australia as they do here in New Zealand? They are a small company here, and obviously can't carry a lot of stock, but are certainly better to deal with than our local Phase importer. Have you dealt with the Australian reps for Phase? I often think if I choose to take the plunge into MF land I should just fly to Sydney instead of Auckland to demo and buy, depending on exchange rates of the time.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Nice camera rig - and I am looking forward to the Alpa announcements as well!

Here my ALPA12SWA + SCHNEIDER SUPERANGULON XL 5,6/72mm + HASSELBLAD CFV-39 . The camera has the current built in "wake up" solution .
A little release button in the left grip (for left handers only ?) which can not be seen here .
Works fine for hand held . A bit tricky , when working from a tripod .
Therefore I use the HASSELBLAD release cord H (3043370) when using a tripod . I am curious , what the new "wake up" will be .

View attachment 35282

I am leaving for Switzerland in about an hour for a couple of days . Unfortunately not ALPA-land . But they would not tell me anything about their PHOTOKINA new products anyway .
Understandable .
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
With the advent of Live View and decent screens on MFDB's in the future, will anyone mourn these convoluted and necessarily over engineered solutions?
 

PeterA

Well-known member
With the advent of Live View and decent screens on MFDB's in the future, will anyone mourn these convoluted and necessarily over engineered solutions?
Hi Ben,

When someone makes a digiback which sends a wifi live view to an Ipad so that I can get an image large enough to easily see Sheinflug in action (in the field) - that will be bliss.

In the meantime we have to make do with third rate ground glass inadequate loupes and a lot of experienced based guessing - even gettiing something in focus in a 200% pixle peeping world is too hard ...:confused:

I guess thats why most landscapes made with digital cameras are dead boring because they all rely to much on 'content' depicted from a repetitive boring perspective, using the same lenses in the same way, with over worked filter effects and post shot manipulations - that makes my eyes wince.:sleep006:

Pete
 

thomas

New member
With the advent of Live View and decent screens on MFDB's in the future, will anyone mourn these convoluted and necessarily over engineered solutions?
Not sure the cameras are overenginered. Actually they are all quite "simple" (though of course highly precise and beautifully made cameras).
A higer resolution on the focus ring (i.e. with much more indications) is also not what I would call overengineered.
Even if LiveView is on the horizon for MFDB… it is not available today. But I want to shoot today…
Too, even if I'd buy a MFDB with LiveView I still would like to use my old school DB on the same camera platform.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
In case some aren't aware of it, Kapture Group make a OneShot cable release that wakes up a Phase back and fires the shutter with a single push of the button. http://www.kapturegroup.com/phase/phase.html#4x4one_a It's a big improvement, particularly for hand held photos; no more error messages when you don't press the shutter fast enough after waking the back.

I assume the ALPA solution will be somewhat similar, though I hope it will allow for easy mounting on the camera body.
 

David K

Workshop Member
David, thanks for sharing your research and thoughts on these technical cameras. Very helpful to those of us who are less familiar with them.
 

David Klepacki

New member
Some folks have asked that I update my original table with more details, so here it is. I hope this helps people who are looking into technical cameras.
 
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Don Libby

Well-known member
I've stayed out of this till now however I thought I'd offer a few comments.

As most of you know I've been shooting landscape with a Cambo WRS1000 and P45+ for almost 2-years now. The WRS1000 is the body Cambo designed strictly for digital backs thus it's lightweight and offers a small footprint. The WRS offers geared movements which to date have not failed me. These same movements also offer the ability of flat stitching that is simple to use. I've attempted to use a groundglass with the camera and found it just not to my liking for several reasons, among them the hassle factor of removing the back then adding the groundglass then doing the reverse to replace the back. The groundglass works as advertized when I used it, however I ended up not using it as much as I thought I would. It took me close to 18-months before I finally got a viewfinder and while I use it now I'm glad I waited.

I had to replace my P30+ back for a P45+ when I made the move to the Cambo and I'm glad I did. I also tried Capture Integration's 2-shot shutter system before going with a Kapture Group Oneshot cable system.

I've found the WRS to be easy and intuitive to use with virtually no learning curve. My biggest fear when I started was the ability to achieve critical focus however I found my largest problems were remembering to remove the lens cap and cock the shutter.

I bought in the thought process that I would need all types of measurement devices to achieve focus thus I went out and got laser finders and other "stuff". The only remaining item I continue to keep in my bag and use occasionally is a Fotoman rangefinder.

I could, and maybe one day will have one or more of my lens retrofitted to the new swing/tilt lenspanel; I haven't found a huge need for swing/tilt in my photography however others could. Likewise while at first I thought I would have liked the idea of a sliding back I came to the understanding that I simple don't need it. I like the small size the WRS offers and adding a sliding back would defeat that purpose.

This said, I will admit to having lust in my heart over the looks of the Alpa, come on who wouldn't like the wood handles!

What I don't like is this EVF. Reminds me of a similar setup where a rifleman uses a computer and software for ballistics information (Horus Vision). Anything complicated can and will go belly up when you least expect it. I also remember watching a video on the EVF after it was first introduced and thought then that it complicated what should be simple. It also added things that could (at least in my case) be lost somewhere out in the middle of no and where and then you're screwed.

Guess I just like the simple life.

As always just my 2¢ worth and valued at much less.

Don

I reread what I wrote and want to make it clear that I'm not slamming the system, it's just not for me. Then again we are very fortunate that we have the choices we do as it would be very boring to live in a one size fits all world.

I also want to add my thanks to David for his chart as it would have simplified my life when I started down this road.
 

thomas

New member
I will admit to having lust in my heart over the looks of the Alpa, come on who wouldn't like the wood handles!
me. If I would use the Max I would use it without the grips (as for me the Max is a tripod camera anyway). And if I'd use them I'd certainly take the back ones.

What I don't like is this EVF. Reminds me of a similar setup where a rifleman uses a computer and software for ballistics information (Horus Vision). Anything complicated can and will go belly up when you least expect it. I also remember watching a video on the EVF after it was first introduced and thought then that it complicated what should be simple.
As a simple finder it is not complicated... it's just a finder as any other finder (though the view is much, much better than with the Alpa or Cambo finder; it's brighter and less distorted).
Only if you use those DOF barrels and all that tables it get's a bit complicated (at least a bit confusing at first).
 
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