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A Comparison of Technical Cameras

cly

Member
Some folks have asked that I update my original table with more details, so here it is.
a few comments, in case there will be another refinement:

- dedicated leveling aid: there are also spirit levels on the rm3d.

- it might make sense to add the rl3d to your table:
you get either tilt or swing (but still not both) - this is a better solution than mounting the rm3d sideways.
shift: V: 40/10, H: 20/20
weight: 1.500
so far, i haven't been able to find the proper dimensions. i had a look at one next to an rm3d and i thought, it's not that much larger. but when i look at pictures in the web it looks quite a bite larger.

- something else - no idea if this is of any relevance: somewhere i have read that in certain circumstances the limited 'aperture' of a traditional camera body might result in vignetting. if this is true the design of the arca, i.e., the huge helical mount, was another plus. perhaps someone more knowable would like to comment.

--chris
 

David Klepacki

New member
David - just a note that there is no Kapture Group sliding back adapter option for the Alpa.
I have been doing some of the product photography for Kapture Group. I happen to know that there is a sliding back in the engineering phase right now that is targeted for the Alpa system. So yes, technically you are correct about not having any sliding back for the Alpa at this time. I put it in the table in anticipation of this sliding back to help people look into such an option if the Alpa system appeals to them.

- dedicated leveling aid: there are also spirit levels on the rm3d.

- it might make sense to add the rl3d to your table:
you get either tilt or swing (but still not both) - this is a better solution than mounting the rm3d sideways.
shift: V: 40/10, H: 20/20
weight: 1.500
Thanks Chris.

Yes, there is a small circular spirit level on the RM3D, but the new Arca-Swiss E-module better differentiates their available technology.

Also, your are correct in that the RL3D should be added to the table. Indeed, it has all the features of the RM3D and more. If we were shooting with a larger format (e.g., 4x5), then this would have been our camera of choice.
 

Tim Ernst

New member
I was just told by KG that their Alpa back won't be available until next year, so it is not something that you can really count on at the moment - and it may not be able to work with all wide angle lenses - hopefully they will be able to work the kinks out and it will work with all lenses, but how long a wait? How many "ticks" for the other cameras are just in the "engineering phase" right now that should be added to the list?
 

David Klepacki

New member
a few comments, in case there will be another refinement:

- dedicated leveling aid: there are also spirit levels on the rm3d.

- it might make sense to add the rl3d to your table:
Chris, thanks. I added the spirit level to the rm3d box. I could not get my hands on a RL3D, so I will add it when I can get actually get measurements of it.

I was just told by KG that their Alpa back won't be available until next year, so it is not something that you can really count on at the moment - and it may not be able to work with all wide angle lenses - hopefully they will be able to work the kinks out and it will work with all lenses, but how long a wait? How many "ticks" for the other cameras are just in the "engineering phase" right now that should be added to the list?
Fair enough. I have removed that entry form the table. Everything in the table is now up to date and accurate. Latest version attached below.
 
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Don Libby

Well-known member
Not certain I understand the comment "mechanical head" in the "Dedicated Leveling Aid" for the Cambo WRS1000 as I have spirit levels on the top and sides of mine.
 

baxter

New member
I really appreciate the wealth of information on this thread. Huge thanks for David for sharing his research and willingness to update following feedback from other owners.

Having used a Linhof Techno for a week over the summer with the Linhof sliding back, I was unaware of the other the camera options which provide tilt which was a welcome eye-opener. For Landscape, this movement and rise/fall is of most use. Availability of the majority of them on David's list in the UK seems to be scarce, like I'm struggling to identify some of the importers!

I am slightly confused about the effectiveness of Laser rangefinders to focus and then how to determine the correct amount of tilt and aperture to ensure the Plane of focus renders things sharp which are supposed to be. I can see how it would work for an outdoor architectural shot, but keeping interior sharp with a high foreground object is similar to many Landscape scenarios with a low viewpoint and foreground rock or log to lock the composition and where use of movements scores over non-tech cameras where it would be Helicon Focus to the rescue again! Whilst this compositional description might sound clicheed, it is something which recurs in many scenic shots and is relevant when doing intricate studies instead of the vista. The latter is exacerbated by the fact that often a longer lens is used for these study shots. These issues do concern me before spending heavily once again.

With the Techno, I found it significantly harder to use movements to control focus confidently than my 4x5 camera, even using a 10x Schneider aspherical loupe. This was especially so at the edges of the frame. The Acute screen was like turning the headlights on, great for rise/fall and shift, but too small/tight for accurate application of tilt. It's a wonderful camera and piece of engineering, more practice would have made me a more competent driver. This thread has alerted me to other possibilities.

The Arca-Swiss EVF looks tremendous piece of engineering (happy to include the camera itself), but I struggle to see how easy it would be to use on a windy beach or cliff-top and then to decide how much tilt etc to dial in.

If anyone can shed light by providing their solutions to these concerns and thus allay my worries, then I'd love to learn from you.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Baxter

For tilts you are pretty resigned to direct focusing using the ground glass or tethered.

In theory you could certainly calculate the required tilt amount using Scheimpflug principles, basic trigonometry, effective DoF tables and laser distancing on near/far objects that you wanted in the plane of focus. However, I think at that point you'd be dealing with spurious accuracy (assuming that you can dial in a calculated number like 6.344degrees and the required focus distance for example).
 

David Klepacki

New member
Not certain I understand the comment "mechanical head" in the "Dedicated Leveling Aid" for the Cambo WRS1000 as I have spirit levels on the top and sides of mine.
Don, thomas had provided some feedback as to some of the unique features of these cameras that should be mentioned, so I added this column. Cambo provides a dedicated leveling head specifically for their WRS camera:

http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Item21632.html

Of course, there are many third-party leveling aids available for use with any of these cameras, but I wanted to identify anything specific that the camera manufacturer has to offer.
 

David Klepacki

New member
No... You should also check the Box 6x9+Bino for the RM3D !
First, I am the first to admit that the Arca-Swiss binocular viewfinder provides the best optical viewing experience of any technical camera. With this finder, you can easily see into the corners of the ultra wide lenses. However, this effort of evaluating technical cameras contains a very basic assumption of being relatively compact and portable. While the Arca-Swiss "bino" may be a technically correct viewing solution from an engineering perspective, its size and bulk are counter-philosophical to the design of the Rm3d (and Rl3d).

Arca-Swiss is a very innovative company with a strong reputation of technical achievement (e.g., orbix, misura designs, F-line, M-line, R-line, and even their tripod heads such as the B, P, Z heads and C1 cube). So, I am sure they can come up with a 6x9 monocular reflex viewfinder that is articulated, magnified, has diopter adjustments, compact (foldable?) and consistent with the lean design of the Rm3d and Rl3d.
 

archivue

Active member
i still using their Binocular because my glasses fit in it... i must admit that i find it cumbersome.
the think is, that my compositions are much bette with the bino... i've plan to adapt the silvestri monocular on it... but i'm not shure it will works !


 

David Klepacki

New member
i still using their Binocular because my glasses fit in it... i must admit that i find it cumbersome.
the think is, that my compositions are much bette with the bino... i've plan to adapt the silvestri monocular on it... but i'm not shure it will works !
Well, I have heard that there is a monocular in the works from Arca-Swiss, but I do not know anything about it, nor when it would be available.
 

jbaxendell

New member
Baxter,

May your bank manager forgive me...

Alpa - Company website www.alpa.ch
UK Dealer - Linhof Studio (www.linhofstudio.com)

Arca - No company website - they say that their components can be combined is so many ways that it is best to talk to someone!
UK Dealer - Robert White have some stock and can probably order anything (www.robertwhite.co.uk). I tend to look at a German company called the Arca Shop, which has a more comprehensive stock (www.arca-shop.de)

Cambo - Company website www.cambo.com
UK Dealers - Calumet (www.calumetphoto.com) or Teamwork (www.teamworkphoto.com)

Horseman - Company website www.komamura.co.jp
UK Dealers - Calumet, Robert White

Linhof - Company website www.linhof.de
UK Dealer - Linhof Studio

Silvestri - Company website www.silvestricamera.com
UK Dealer - Teamwork

Sinar - Company website www.sinar.ch
UK Dealer - Image 2 Output (www.image2output.com)
 
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tjv

Active member
Great links, thanks!

Ok, so let me get this straight...

Ex VAT, the RM3D is 3950 Euro, the external viewfinder is 950 Euro, the M adaptor plate is 535 Euro, and do you need to buy a lens board for every lens as well? And am I right in thinking the lenses are a lot cheaper than those used on the Alpa due to them not needing heliacal focusing rings? On first look the Arca system looks a lot cheaper?

As for Arca not having a web site, it's absolutely stupid in this day and age. The Alpa web site is very clear with information regarding how to build a system. I'm sure a good web site would encourage gear lust in a totally new market for them.
 

jbaxendell

New member
Arca like making cameras and are less keen on making websites. Apparently they have one that is close to being ready but they keep getting distracted by more interesting things.

The helical part of the lens mount is on the camera and is used by all lenses. The lens has to be mounted in a kind of tube that attaches to the helical. You should take a look at the video review on Luminous Landscape to see what I mean [and then come straight back here and be faithful to Jack and Guy].

My conclusion was that the lenses were a lot cheaper, especially when compared to Alpa. You can also buy a plate for the F and M line cameras that lets you attach lenses that are in the tube mount. Chris Barrett has posted about this feature on this forum.
 
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thomas

New member
Don, thomas had provided some feedback as to some of the unique features of these cameras that should be mentioned, so I added this column.
however Don is right :) ... of course, the WRS body is equipped with several spirit levels (2 on the top, 1 on the side, 1 on the bottom... resp. the new models have 2 on the bottom so that you can level the camera above head level). The leveling base is an additional (optional) piece.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sinar-artec.shtmlhttp://

After reading Thomas mention of the "small German maker" - I remembered an article I had read on LL ( above)

The link above may be of interest to those hunting for a tech camera with movements and some background to the artec.

Also the artec pictured in the article is now improved by better locking system for tilt - a response to pretty much the only criticism made when it was released.

perfection for me would also include the mount to tripod over the center of the camera body - and an accessory mount for nodal point shooting - something for sure one can make up oneself with off the shelf parts from RRS or Novaflex etc - but I ask myself how much nicer if Sinar had ticked the only missing box for landscape shooters with their own system including pre-marked nodal points for the sliders?


apologies for the pic - I spend a lot of time getting to know the equipment I choose - before I buy - if I don't love it enough to make a romantic shot - foggedaboudit! -:)
 
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