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Thread: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

  1. #1
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Some people have asked me for a sample RAW file of a person, so here's a DNG file you can look at. Note, because it is RAW you will need to adjust white balance etc correctly yourself. I'm not including the test shot with the grey card. This image is only to be used for evaluation purposes and may not be reproduced.

    http://download.yousendit.com/546E6DB00BC65990 (limited to 1 week and 100 downloads)



    I'm not too worried about the Canon 1Ds3

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    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Graham:

    I noticed this on the FM site first. I will post my reply here too.

    It looks better than any Canon or Nikon file that I have seen.

    Does the eMotion have a sensitivity to IR? In the DNG it looked like her black blouse has some IR problems in it. Your dedicated Sinar software may just correct for this in the profile.

    Here is what I got opening it with ACR. I didn't make any adjustments and it looked like your custom WB was saved in the DNG. I would say there is a profile being applied by the sinar software that deals with it.



    Robert

  3. #3
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    ok, I'll repost my answer here too

    It shouldn't. There is a normal IR filter over the sensor. Perhaps it is just the way this particular fabric looks because I haven't noticed this before.

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    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    I think it may be something to do with your DNG conversion.

    Do you have an ICC profile for the eMotion? I think if the profile was applied to it, the fabric may look better.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    You could be right - I don't normally create a DNG file so it's not my normal workflow. I did that to make it possible for most people to open it.

    Disregard any colour shift. Perhaps I could post an 8-bit TIFF for you too (16 bit would be too large for yousendit.com).

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    You could be right - I don't normally create a DNG file so it's not my normal workflow. I did that to make it possible for most people to open it.

    Disregard any colour shift. Perhaps I could post an 8-bit TIFF for you too (16 bit would be too large for yousendit.com).
    if anyone is interested in full files, I have a yousendit 2Gb account.


    Anyone can upload thru

    http://dropbox.yousendit.com/victorgogolak3875106

    then I can repost for download.

    If you use this, just let me know it is coming

    Victor

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Graham:

    I noticed this on the FM site first. I will post my reply here too.

    It looks better than any Canon or Nikon file that I have seen.

    Does the eMotion have a sensitivity to IR? In the DNG it looked like her black blouse has some IR problems in it. Your dedicated Sinar software may just correct for this in the profile.

    Here is what I got opening it with ACR. I didn't make any adjustments and it looked like your custom WB was saved in the DNG. I would say there is a profile being applied by the sinar software that deals with it.




    Robert
    Its not really an IR problem, it is just there. I have DMR files that look like this. If we were snakes this would look just right!

    I frankly think the whole filter, coding, adjusting etc (maybe except for wedding photographers who's clients don't use wool tuxes ) is a waste of time. The costs and contortions with the M8 I am afraid reeked of mass hysteria. We just now have technology that allows us to see better; polyester 'black' isn't, never was, never will be. We just have clients who THInK it is.

    BTW Graham, another nice shot!

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    I wondered about the black top too, but just adjusted the shadow tint in lightroom and it all straightened out. I assume this is more of a problem with lightroom not having good camera profiles for this back than anything else. Did anyone try any other RAW converters?

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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    You can see that whatever was applied to make the top 'black' also changed the subject's hair colour..as well as changing the skin colour.

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Yeah true. But its only a sample from a back I don't own taken in a place and time and of a model that I'll never be able to see so I'll never know for sure if I get the colors right. Graham was there light from the strobes relecting off of those blue walls/floor and back onto the model?

    Anyhow, it was fun to squish the file around and take a good look at the eMotion back.

    It's hard to get the shirt white, the outer shirt black and achieve a pleasing skin color all at the same time at least in lightroom without going into PS and using curves. But hey, I am never satisfied using lightroom or ACR to process my leica DMR files. I really like lightroom for DAM stuff but hate it for color on anything non mainstream. If I shoot plain canon 5D its okay, but if I shoot with zuiko or leica glass then its all messed up.
    Last edited by EH21; 5th December 2007 at 00:11.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    I went with this. But I see something strange in the necklace
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Also I think there is a slight IR issue here
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    IMPORTANT

    After some feedback on this DNG file and especially some colour and highlight issues, I have to say that I have never used the DNG conversion before and it is not part of my ordinary workflow. There the DNG file is only useful as a measure of the file's resolution and detail.

    I chose the DNG format to try to be helpful but it only opened a can of worms.

    So.. here is an 8 bit TIFF (16 bit was too large) of the same file exported as a TIFF from Captureshop with basic curves applied in Photoshop.

    No colour correction applied, and the shirt is black as you can see. Some of the colour fringing is much better too.

    http://download.yousendit.com/A316153B5CD90E9A (limited to 1 week, 100 downloads)

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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Graham,
    Using Raw Developer I was able to avoid the color fringing shown in Guy's conversion, but still not as good with the skin tones and white shirt as in your TIFF from Captureshop. Still appreciate the opportunity to inspect one of the Sinar files and it looks very good.

  15. #15
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Graham what do you normally process these files in , i may have missed that. The detail is certainly there and they look very nice overall.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Guy, I normally shoot tethered with Captureshop and export to TIFF from that program. The files are basically ready at that stage. I don't have to mess around with the files unless there is a special reason. Captureshop uses the .STI raw file format which would be useless to post here given that almost no raw developers support it. Things will be easier when Exposure is released and the raw format changes to DNG.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    Yes kind of surprised they used a closed system there . So the new software coming will be DNG that is a good thing for them to do. Looks like a very nice system overall though and your images as always look great. Thanks for you report on this .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Sample DNG file from Sinar e22

    IMO, the idea that files should be converted to DNGs for export to a "universal" RAW processor is letting these back makers off the hook to much.

    The proprietary software always produces better results because it is optimized for the backs they are for. In no way is any DNG converted file from my Hasselblad H3D/39 the equal to the same file processed through Flexcolor.

    I do use DNG conversions when faced with 100 wedding images for the sake of batch processing along side 100 shots from a Canon digital in Lightroom ... but I don't delude myself into thinking the overall color and fidelity of the original is intact.

    I suspect the same for Sinar shots.

    I am please that Hasselblad is stepping up and taking on the responsibility to overhaul their software so proprietary processing can be retained while vastly improving the work flow to be more Lightroom like.

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