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Thread: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

  1. #51
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    that's what I've heard, too.
    I think there is too much R&D involved in relation to the potential sale numbers. So I don't think so.
    Leaf does not even support Contax with the new Aptus II 12... (although they will make a Contax mount if demand is high enough, which is in this case easy as they have the interface and the required firmware). And there are certainly much more Contax' around than AFi's/Hy6's ...
    What R&D? Leaf has already produced backs for this interface.

    The advantage of releasing a 645 sensor back for the Hy6/AFi is that you have a captive market. Your back would be the only upgrade path in town.

  2. #52
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    i also dont really understand all the mess, and dont really care to understand.
    i know the hy6 is the best camera, leaf back is as good as other two at least.
    as for 80mp - too expensive anyway, although im sure the quality should be amazing, and maybe even significant progress over leaf-II-10 beyond extra resolution.
    mess or not... HY6 now, and in the future (if it continuous to develop somehow) is The Best camera for such a back together with some technical cameras+lenses.

  3. #53
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Your back would be the only upgrade path in town.
    Remember what Hy6/AFi/Sinar/F&H did to Phase One not long ago.. even though they knew they could have sold thousands of Hy6 cameras and perhaps keep that camera alive but instead they chose not to. So now Phase owns Leaf, they could have probably buy Sinar too for less than we can imagine but I don't think Phase would get much out of them at least not now with this economy.. so maybe its a PayBack time or maybe not..

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    What R&D? Leaf has already produced backs for this interface.
    Leaf, yes. But Phase has not. And Leaf doesn't support the AFi mount anymore.
    If there would be any interest in supporting AFi mount the easiest thing for Phase/Leaf would be a Leaf back with this mount. But obviously there is no interest. Therefore it's even less likely that Phase will make one.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Leaf, yes. But Phase has not. And Leaf doesn't support the AFi mount anymore.
    Leaf's R&D is now Phase's R&D, so it makes no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    If there would be any interest in supporting AFi mount the easiest thing for Phase/Leaf would be a Leaf back with this mount. But obviously there is no interest. Therefore it's even less likely that Phase will make one.
    No interest? There are at least 3 people in this thread alone who are interested, me included It seems there are many more. Read Schmiddi's post here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=47

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    I never quite understood what exactly happened with the Hy6/AFi mount.

    I remember when I had a Leaf Aptus 75s in M mount and demo'ed the AFi ... only to find out that my 75s couldn't be used, or the mount adapted to the AFi. I was told that the 75s couldn't be adapted due to the complex proprietary integrated technology of the AFi ( which sounded odd to me).

    Unfortunately, Leaf also wasn't interested in providing any upgrade path the way Phase and Hassey always have. This made going to the AFi way to expensive just to get the camera system since the AFi back was no better than the Aptus 75s I already had. That's when I said bye-bye to Leaf.

    Perhaps it was a "mutual" shutting out on the part of Leaf and Phase due to the same complex interface issues that prevented Leaf's own backs from being used on the AFi? Lot's of effort would have been required on the part of Phase to fit how many cameras? And Leaf would be making AFis without a back for someone else's digital back ... camera's they probably weren't making much, if anything, on anyway.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Leaf's R&D is now Phase's R&D, so it makes no difference.
    Graham, the initial question was is Phase going to make a back in AFi mount. If not even Leaf makes one, why should Phase make one?
    As to R&D... you can't bulit in the Leaf firmware into a Phase One back... so for a Phase back some R&D would be neccessary in any case.
    A Leaf back is not a Phase One back - so it makes a difference. Phase does not even have the interface (i.e. the actual physical mount) ...

    No interest? There are at least 3 people in this thread alone who are interested, me included
    no interest on the part of Leaf and Phase

  8. #58
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    no interest on the part of Leaf and Phase
    It seems you are right about that. We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)

  9. #59
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    It seems you are right about that. We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)
    yes, it is not only about how many people are on this forum, or how many owners are out there... "business interest" is more a question of the potential of the system. i also think this camera with leaf or phase back are top, and if the option is given to the potential customers (owners, or new people to the system), there are enough reasons to think that it may succeed business-wise too.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)
    how many AFi's / Hy6's are around?
    Again: Leaf does not even support Contax on the new Apt.12 (at least not initially - and they will only make a mount when demand is high enough) - and the Contax user base is defintely larger than the AFi user base (at least I think we can consider this to be certain even without knowing the real numbers).

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    It seems you are right about that. We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)
    Yeah, all three of you put the screws to them to spend uber-multi-thousand$ ...
    let us know how that works out ...

    -Marc

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yeah, all three of you put the screws to them to spend uber-multi-thousand$ ...
    let us know how that works out ...

    -Marc
    Marc, it's not just the three of us, I'm sure there's a fourth out there somewhere (maybe Peter) There are those of us using the Hy6 that think it's one of the best (or the best) MF camera ever to come to market. Bad economic timing on it's release... and the rest is history. I would guess that there are very few Hy6 cameras that made it into production before it was discontinued. Certainly not enough to warrant anyone tooling up for the existing user base. But that's not to say that the Hy6 couldn't be much more popular if there were attractive options for a back other than what currently exists. I suspect there are legal and logistical roadblocks that make this unlikely... which is a shame.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Marc, it's not just the three of us, I'm sure there's a fourth out there somewhere
    I'll be fourth! (Sorry, Peter--stole your spot in line...)

    The arguments that Leaf isn't Phase or Phase doesn't have what Leaf has are baffling to me. It seems to me that this LEAF back could be offered in Hy6 mount with a minimum of effort by Leaf Imaging (wholly owned by Phase One), if they so desired, given the existence of the AFi-II 10R.

    (Granted, there could be significant work to do, or there might not be--hard to say, not knowing how they've designed the II series architecture. I'm simply assuming they designed it with an eye to be updated to new sensors.)

    Regardless, I'm with Graham. I'd give it serious consideration if it were an option.

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    It seems you are right about that. We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)
    You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

    If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

    If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

    Yair
    I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products, not the other way around. If we have to make your market research, marketing and sales work than we expect to discount the price to <15k -
    if the discount is large enough I would consider to buy one

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    I'll be fourth! (Sorry, Peter--stole your spot in line...)

    The arguments that Leaf isn't Phase or Phase doesn't have what Leaf has are baffling to me. It seems to me that this LEAF back could be offered in Hy6 mount with a minimum of effort by Leaf Imaging (wholly owned by Phase One), if they so desired, given the existence of the AFi-II 10R.

    (Granted, there could be significant work to do, or there might not be--hard to say, not knowing how they've designed the II series architecture. I'm simply assuming they designed it with an eye to be updated to new sensors.)

    Regardless, I'm with Graham. I'd give it serious consideration if it were an option.
    Just yankin' your chain Bradley ... hope it works out for you guys that ponied up for the HY6 then were left holding the bag. Terrific camera and a real shame it met such a fate ... there should be one premium camera out there like it with all the advanced features. Wish someone would also resurrect the Contax 645 with updated workings. I fear neither is going to happen, and MFD is all the poorer for it.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products, not the other way around. If we have to make your market research, marketing and sales work than we expect to discount the price to <15k -
    if the discount is large enough I would consider to buy one
    Maybe I should re-phrase that one:

    Assuming we make such a back, will the 5 Hy6 owners here buy it for €25K or more?
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

    If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

    Yair
    Therein lies the rub... Having watched my Sinar e75LV depreciate in price from approx. $30k to less than $10k in a few short years I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Perhaps others who have been fortunate enough to have offset that loss with earnings from using it would feel differently. Or possibly an attractive trade-in program would make it more palatable.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products
    exactly. The question here is: how many customers do we talk about?? I guess the number is so small that you really can't talk about a "market".

    you can't save souls in an empty church...
    Last edited by thomas; 25th September 2010 at 05:53.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Therein lies the rub... Having watched my Sinar e75LV depreciate in price from approx. $30k to less than $10k in a few short years I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Perhaps others who have been fortunate enough to have offset that loss with earnings from using it would feel differently. Or possibly an attractive trade-in program would make it more palatable.
    thinking about "long term investment" it definitely makes more sense to change the camera mount rather sooner than later. So if you buy into e.g. Contax or AFi mount today the chance to sell the back for a reasonable price in a few years is really bad. So either live with the potential loss of value or switch the camera platform.

    Me personally I'd probably use such a high rez monster exclusively on a tech camera... so if I'd buy one I'd most likely take one in Phase/Mamiya mount and keep my retro DBs for the Contax. Simpy because it's easier to sell a back in that mount one day (if necessary).

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    If we have to make your market research, marketing and sales work than we expect to discount the price to <15k -
    I´d buy one for 15k immediately.
    Philipp Derganz Photography
    Fotograf Wien Österreich

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I´d buy one for 15k immediately.
    Put me on that virtual list too .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  23. #73
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

    If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

    Yair
    I'm sure you have some names from Photokina already Anyway, I'll try and visit you in London next week. I just emailed you about that.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    I have a suggestion: how about to find out the starting clients from Hy6/AFi
    users through Leaf dealers? Let’s say if Leaf can find out 5 potential clients
    who would like to buy new AFi-II 12 back or upgrade their existing AFi backs AND
    willing to be asked for a $5000~$10000 non-refundable deposit, will Leaf develope
    such a AFi-II 12 back? I believe Leaf can have a try which will not hurt anyone.

    Porsche was not sure to produce 918 till they received about positive response from 2000 people. Why Leaf cannot do that? Check this:
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/11007122...0000-price-tag

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Maybe I should re-phrase that one:

    Assuming we make such a back, will the 5 Hy6 owners here buy it for €25K or more?
    very funny discussion.. NO YAIR, no need to re-phrase it !! let the folks re-think it. the offer to develop a custom solution for the few using a not so popular / not so widely spread system is a honorable thing. even more so doing it for the regular price of 25K. what more can you ask for… this I call communication.

    now please can somebody tell me what is so special about the HY6/AFI ? I never got the chance to put my fingers on one. the only thing I saw was some gorgeous impressions shot with the 80mm xenotar. and well ok.. WLF and 45° prism.. which is not truly a exclusive rollei feature…

    and yes thomas… I bet there wouldn't be 5 orders placed if the mount would be available tomorrow :-)

  26. #76
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    now please can somebody tell me what is so special about the HY6/AFI ? I never got the chance to put my fingers on one. the only thing I saw was some gorgeous impressions shot with the 80mm xenotar. and well ok.. WLF and 45° prism.. which is not truly a exclusive rollei feature…
    - There is metering built into the camera body, so metering and AE modes work with all viewfinder options.
    - It actually has viewfinder options unlike some!
    - great lenses, fast apertures and with leaf shutters offering up to 1/1000 flash sync
    - by using a 6x6 format, the camera can remain upright at all times while just the sensor/back is rotated between landscape and portrait. This also allows use of WLF in portrait mode!
    - more obscure features such as focus bracketing and focus trapping

    The first 4 on the list are really what nail it for me.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    doing it for the regular price of 25K. what more can you ask for
    That's the price in Euros... in dollars it's closer to $33k. Folks might differ on whether this is a reasonable price or not but what makes it economically painful is how little value existing backs have.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

    If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

    Yair
    Yair
    Please put me down on your list! I will email you my details.

    Thanks JOHN

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    - There is metering built into the camera body, so metering and AE modes work with all viewfinder options.
    - It actually has viewfinder options unlike some!
    - great lenses, fast apertures and with leaf shutters offering up to 1/1000 flash sync
    - by using a 6x6 format, the camera can remain upright at all times while just the sensor/back is rotated between landscape and portrait. This also allows use of WLF in portrait mode!
    - more obscure features such as focus bracketing and focus trapping

    The first 4 on the list are really what nail it for me.
    Another option is to use the 645DF camera and add square crop lines to the focusing screen. With a 80MP sensor, you can then compose with square format and get a 60MP square image, when you do not wish to rotate the camera. The DF camera gives you the added advantage of faster leaf shutters up to 1/1600 flash sync as well as the new Schneider lenses, including the fast aperture LS lenses and the tilt/shift ones that were just announced at Photokina. Also, the next version of the camera (e.g., DF-II) will most likely have interchangeable viewfinder options.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Just to explain my reasons for wanting to order a back in hy6 mount. I have a hy6 system and a arTec with a few lenses - so a considerable investment in hy6 mount cameras. The cameras and lenses are EXCELLENT and I see nothing camera wise on the market that remotely tempts me ( apart from ARCA ) In fact Im also happy with my LVR75 back. The lure of the Leaf back is the wider sensor and its use with wide lenses.I am prepared to fork out the money for one but shudder at the thought of selling all my gear and starting from scratch.
    Cheers
    JOHN
    oh and to add to Graham's list - the zeiss 110 f2 lens is a reason in itself to have a hy6!!

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    There was a rumor of AFI backs locked up in a USA warehouse, caught in the no-more Hy6/AFI complexities. Could one imagine them upgraded to newer sensor, without the hassle of changing mounts?

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    We used to be a Sinar customer, including both the Hy6 and M camera systems. We asked them if they could custom adapt Aptus-10 backs for these systems. They said they would only do it for a bulk order of 35 backs minimum. Needless to say, we ended up selling off all of our Sinar equipment and switched to another vendor.

    So, I believe that if enough people are willing to put the money up front, you could indeed adapt these new Aptus-12 backs to your Hy6/AFi as well. Also, there was about a 15% surcharge over the retail price of the backs in this case.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Anyway, I wil upgrade to AFi-II 12 from AFi7 if Leaf have such business.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    OK, I admit that I would not buy one-since I am just happy with what I have (75LV) and right now it does more than I need.
    The price development in MF world is so extreme that I believe here as long as you are not super rich or a pro who really needs the latest and greatest and makes a lot of money with it - it just a lot of money. I could buy my 75LV for a price which others paid 50% more few month earlier and still the value of my MF gear is much lower just after 1-2 years.
    The value of Leica M lenses is a dream compared to MF gear.

    Back to the question how many people would buy a Hy6 version of that Leaf back:
    Even if I were superrich I would only buy such a back form a company where I feel to understand what they plan in the future and where I could rely on their product strategy. Therefore as a Hy6 owner I would rely much more on Sinar than on Leaf, and this discussion here goes in the same direction.
    Leaf has sold AFIs, but today it seems they do mainly think in direct future sales/profit. Maybe making a AFI version of that back wouldnt generate direct profit, but maybe those AFI owners would build up trust in Leaf and could be held as a future customer.

    Anyways I am glad that both Leaf and Sinar have staid in the market.

  35. #85
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Despite some of the negativity towards the Hy6 here, apparently there is some hope after all

    http://bit.ly/chzNT2

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    wow, this is really good news!
    Philipp Derganz Photography
    Fotograf Wien Österreich

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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Maybe I should re-phrase that one:

    Assuming we make such a back, will the 5 Hy6 owners here buy it for €25K or more?
    Yair, I think you must be familiar with my story... I think my track record for purchasing medium format systems speaks for itself.

    But after too many experiences of missed deliveries, I can say that I no longer make commitments to this industry based on products that have not yet shipped.

    That being said, and speaking only for myself, I would expect to pay what I'd pay for an Aptus-II 12R less the V mount, plus the time and materials for the "customization" work, if you wanted to call it that, to make it into an AFi-II 12.

    (My hope would be that Phase has margin in the product itself, and wanting to see the A*-II 12 technology in the field and would seek coverage of costs--not additional margin--on the customization work.)

    Alternatively, an upgrade fee (equal to a reasonable Aptus-II 10 to an Aptus-II 12 upgrade fee) + customization costs would also be acceptable--for this charge, I would send in my AFi-II 10 and get back an AFi-II 12.

    If either approach sounds reasonable, I invite you to PM me to discuss a way forward.

    -Brad
    Last edited by BradleyGibson; 26th September 2010 at 22:38.

  38. #88
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Funny thread !

    Here is some facts from an Hy6 owner. In fact I swapped Phase One P45+ and body with Bradley for his Hy6 and 75LVr about a month or so before Sinar were announce dead.

    I recently sent the Hy6 back to Sinar via the new dealer here in Australia - well not so new anymore.

    (oh and LISTEN UP YAIR - too bad Dave isn't your rep for Leaf..and good luck with the mess of spaghetti down here in Australia that pretends to be a dealer..hahah what a Joke)

    anyway back to main story..sent the Hy6 back to Sinar to check it out. Seems that the Hy6 I got from Bradley was one of those early bodies which were not quite right and because of the mess with the F&H situation took a while for Sinar to get organised.

    They didn't repair it - they sent me a knew body how is that for customer service from a dead camera and a dead company?

    As for a Leaf back on the Hy6 - what a great idea!

    but seriously i am sick and tired reading from all these dealers of other brands ..how their systems are open...

    but umm not open to Hy6 ..

    yep the GFC was bad timing for the Hy6 release a real pity.

    Still it suits me because it is a fantastic camera body with a fantastic set of lenses..Sinar isnt dead either - and I will be adding a film back - listen up all you stuck in pathetic 645 land - real MF starts at 6X6

    just use an Hy6 and check out its lovely UNCLUNCKY shutter ..so smooth ..just try some of that 'real' Schneider glass in Rollie mount or the 110/2 yeah of course you have to have one! or maybe check out its metering system..or its beauitiful WLF viewfinder..

    such a great system - good thing I dont give a ratz about what the ..'herd' likes or thinks.

    So you keep making backs for H1s and H2s Yair and the occassional 'fantastic' Mamiya bodies ( teh ones were you count to ten after you press the shutter release?? you know because you KNOW that Phase One dealers are pushing Leaf real hard!!!- hahahahaha gimme a break..

    Seriously - it is ok for people to say "we aren't allowed to make a hy6 mount" because Phase One rules the world... - another thing to say "there aren't any users base" - that is a cheap shot buddy and if Phase One don't like the Hy6 - well sell the rights to someone prepared to actually give the system some life.

    cheers all

  39. #89
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Funny thread !

    Here is some facts from an Hy6 owner. In fact I swapped Phase One P45+ and body with Bradley for his Hy6 and 75LVr about a month or so before Sinar were announce dead.

    I recently sent the Hy6 back to Sinar via the new dealer here in Australia - well not so new anymore.

    (oh and LISTEN UP YAIR - too bad Dave isn't your rep for Leaf..and good luck with the mess of spaghetti down here in Australia that pretends to be a dealer..hahah what a Joke)

    anyway back to main story..sent the Hy6 back to Sinar to check it out. Seems that the Hy6 I got from Bradley was one of those early bodies which were not quite right and because of the mess with the F&H situation took a while for Sinar to get organised.

    They didn't repair it - they sent me a knew body how is that for customer service from a dead camera and a dead company?

    As for a Leaf back on the Hy6 - what a great idea!

    but seriously i am sick and tired reading from all these dealers of other brands ..how their systems are open...

    but umm not open to Hy6 ..

    yep the GFC was bad timing for the Hy6 release a real pity.

    Still it suits me because it is a fantastic camera body with a fantastic set of lenses..Sinar isnt dead either - and I will be adding a film back - listen up all you stuck in pathetic 645 land - real MF starts at 6X6

    just use an Hy6 and check out its lovely UNCLUNCKY shutter ..so smooth ..just try some of that 'real' Schneider glass in Rollie mount or the 110/2 yeah of course you have to have one! or maybe check out its metering system..or its beauitiful WLF viewfinder..

    such a great system - good thing I dont give a ratz about what the ..'herd' likes or thinks.

    So you keep making backs for H1s and H2s Yair and the occassional 'fantastic' Mamiya bodies ( teh ones were you count to ten after you press the shutter release?? you know because you KNOW that Phase One dealers are pushing Leaf real hard!!!- hahahahaha gimme a break..

    Seriously - it is ok for people to say "we aren't allowed to make a hy6 mount" because Phase One rules the world... - another thing to say "there aren't any users base" - that is a cheap shot buddy and if Phase One don't like the Hy6 - well sell the rights to someone prepared to actually give the system some life.

    cheers all
    +1

    Waist-Level View Fnder is the true photography, which lets you think more about the picture!

    Hy6/AFi body with firmware > ver 3.10 is the thing!

    My expectation for the future Hy6/AFi body development is:
    1. set ISO directly at body directly;
    2. make RGB sensor rock.

  40. #90
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Funny thread !

    .sent the Hy6 back to Sinar to check it out. Seems that the Hy6 I got from Bradley was one of those early bodies which were not quite right and because of the mess with the F&H situation took a while for Sinar to get organised.

    They didn't repair it - they sent me a knew body how is that for customer service from a dead camera and a dead company?


    Peter, I would be interested to know exactly where you sent your kit (and any contact info you might have). Perhaps others would like to know as well.

    Thanks.

  41. #91
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Funny thread !

    Here is some facts from an Hy6 owner. In fact I swapped Phase One P45+ and body with Bradley for his Hy6 and 75LVr about a month or so before Sinar were announce dead.

    I recently sent the Hy6 back to Sinar via the new dealer here in Australia - well not so new anymore.

    (oh and LISTEN UP YAIR - too bad Dave isn't your rep for Leaf..and good luck with the mess of spaghetti down here in Australia that pretends to be a dealer..hahah what a Joke)

    anyway back to main story..sent the Hy6 back to Sinar to check it out. Seems that the Hy6 I got from Bradley was one of those early bodies which were not quite right and because of the mess with the F&H situation took a while for Sinar to get organised.

    They didn't repair it - they sent me a knew body how is that for customer service from a dead camera and a dead company?

    As for a Leaf back on the Hy6 - what a great idea!

    but seriously i am sick and tired reading from all these dealers of other brands ..how their systems are open...

    but umm not open to Hy6 ..

    yep the GFC was bad timing for the Hy6 release a real pity.

    Still it suits me because it is a fantastic camera body with a fantastic set of lenses..Sinar isnt dead either - and I will be adding a film back - listen up all you stuck in pathetic 645 land - real MF starts at 6X6

    just use an Hy6 and check out its lovely UNCLUNCKY shutter ..so smooth ..just try some of that 'real' Schneider glass in Rollie mount or the 110/2 yeah of course you have to have one! or maybe check out its metering system..or its beauitiful WLF viewfinder..

    such a great system - good thing I dont give a ratz about what the ..'herd' likes or thinks.

    So you keep making backs for H1s and H2s Yair and the occassional 'fantastic' Mamiya bodies ( teh ones were you count to ten after you press the shutter release?? you know because you KNOW that Phase One dealers are pushing Leaf real hard!!!- hahahahaha gimme a break..

    Seriously - it is ok for people to say "we aren't allowed to make a hy6 mount" because Phase One rules the world... - another thing to say "there aren't any users base" - that is a cheap shot buddy and if Phase One don't like the Hy6 - well sell the rights to someone prepared to actually give the system some life.

    cheers all
    Hey Peter I've met David last week in Cologne (last time I saw him was at least 3 years ago) he's a great guy,

    I think you're quoting another person here...I never said there's no user base or that we're not allowed to make backs for Hy6...

    It is no secret that most digital backs (from all brands) sold these days are in Mamiya/ Phase One mount...

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  42. #92
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    Smile Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Peter, I would be interested to know exactly where you sent your kit (and any contact info you might have). Perhaps others would like to know as well.

    Thanks.
    Interesting story Peter. I have a similar one - I also purchased a s/h system before the melt down and subsequently talked to the new Australian agent - David Kay - about upgrading the firmware .He organised for it to go back to Sinar for this and adjustment and check over ... like Peter I got a NEW BODY back as mine was one of the original models that could not be upgraded. Apart from the shipping this was done for FREE!!! amazing service especially considering I didnt purchase it new from Sinar. I might add that on the strength of this great service I bought a new arTec and some lenses - David Kay provides truly amazing service ,has a wealth of knowledge and is a all round good bloke!!

  43. #93
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    One other thing I should have mentioned is that I live in semi remote area of west australia - Ive never met David we live 1000s of kms apart, all our dealings have been on the phone so basically I first rang him saying Ive got a s/h HY6 can you help me out? Seen in that light gives you a idea of how helpful he really is.
    I do hope to meet David later this year - and will definitely be buying him a beer!!!

  44. #94
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    - There is metering built into the camera body, so metering and AE modes work with all viewfinder options.
    - It actually has viewfinder options unlike some!
    - great lenses, fast apertures and with leaf shutters offering up to 1/1000 flash sync
    - by using a 6x6 format, the camera can remain upright at all times while just the sensor/back is rotated between landscape and portrait. This also allows use of WLF in portrait mode!
    - more obscure features such as focus bracketing and focus trapping

    The first 4 on the list are really what nail it for me.

    I'm a bit late, but thank you all, Graham,Peter, t_streng for the info on the Hy6. at closer look it seems to be a very interesting system. very practical/ergonomical thing to have a WLF in combination with this kind of grip. especially when I think of shooting from down low perspective. doing the snake thing on your belly is not a great pleasure in photography… at least not for me :-) don't know about the hassy HVM and metering option but it doesn't seem to be te same thing. in this case the Hy6 has the edge…

  45. #95
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Peter's thoughts (although I probably would have put them a touch more delicatlely ) very much echo my own experiences, across the brands.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    in this case the Hy6 has the edge…
    Ergonomically, I've never used a better camera. And that includes 35mm.

    It really was a joy to work with the camera. My issue was with the Sinarback's workflow--using it and getting the pictures into Lightroom was simply much too cumbersome. (For example, it took me two months to go through and process all the work I did on a shoot in Iceland. Typically I would be able to get through that volume of work in 1-2 weeks.)

    Leaf took it to the next level with the internal rotating sensor and the tilting screen. Grab your back and put it behind that gorgeous Schneider glass--I think you'll be glad you did.

    Peter--I'm curious about the "old" body vs. the "new" bodies--are you noticing any differences as you shoot with it?

  46. #96
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    +2

    Waist-level viewfinder is the true medium-format photography.

    True film MF photography starts at 6X6

    True digital MF photography starts at 48X36, not at 25X37!

    I'm better suited with a killer dlsr than with a fixed eye-level MF camera

    'Nuf saying

    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by xinchenc View Post
    +1

    Waist-Level View Fnder is the true photography, which lets you think more about the picture!

    Hy6/AFi body with firmware > ver 3.10 is the thing!

    My expectation for the future Hy6/AFi body development is:
    1. set ISO directly at body directly;
    2. make RGB sensor rock.

  47. #97
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    +2

    Waist-level viewfinder is the true medium-format photography.

    True film MF photography starts at 6X6

    True digital MF photography starts at 48X36, not at 25X37!

    I'm better suited with a killer dlsr than with a fixed eye-level MF camera

    'Nuf saying

    Eduardo
    +3

    Waist level finder has always been the key ingredient for me - I find that by looking on the glass, I can compose and recompose quickly for about 10 different views, until I get the right one. For some reason, the view through a prism just doesn't do the same.

    The Hy6 seems to have all the right pieces. Mine was an NOS (new old stock) body from DHW, and a demo Leaf back from somewhere else. Surprisingly, the two went together with narry a problem: DHW upgraded the firmware to the latest, and actually fitted the handle for a Leaf battery, so that the camera would only use one type of battery. What could be better?

    The camera works very well, and goes nicely with all the 6000 PQ glass accumulated over 20 years of Rollei shooting. Its not the lightest, nor the smallest, nor the fastest. But boy is it flexible, and responsive. More keepers than ever.

  48. #98
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    I'm a bit late, but thank you all, Graham,Peter, t_streng for the info on the Hy6. at closer look it seems to be a very interesting system. very practical/ergonomical thing to have a WLF in combination with this kind of grip. especially when I think of shooting from down low perspective. doing the snake thing on your belly is not a great pleasure in photography… at least not for me :-) don't know about the hassy HVM and metering option but it doesn't seem to be te same thing. in this case the Hy6 has the edge…
    The nice thing IMO is the combination of having a WLF and still metering and AF (even though I still have only limited trust in the AF of the Hy6) and the rotating back (which I love).
    Then you can allways also change the viewfinder to the really nice 45 degrees viewfinder when you want (I use WLF much more often).
    The lenses are superb even though some of them quite heavy and big.

    Still I admit sometimes a smaller system would have its advantages being less heavy and obstrusive. I wouldnt want to have to use my Hy6 as my only camera system-in this case Iwould rather go something like the S2 or Phamiya or maybe the new Pentax.

  49. #99
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Not to go too far OT, but have you tried the 80 f 2..8 AF lens on the Hy6? Its AF is right on, its a small light lens, and amazingly sharp.

  50. #100
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    Re: Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

    Good news all!

    Due to high demand we have decided to make the Aptus-II 12 also in Contax mount. Availability is expected in January 2011.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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