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Leaf Aptus-II 12 - 80 Mpx!!!

David K

Workshop Member
Yeah, all three of you put the screws to them to spend uber-multi-thousand$ ...
let us know how that works out ... ;)

-Marc
Marc, it's not just the three of us, I'm sure there's a fourth out there somewhere (maybe Peter) :) There are those of us using the Hy6 that think it's one of the best (or the best) MF camera ever to come to market. Bad economic timing on it's release... and the rest is history. I would guess that there are very few Hy6 cameras that made it into production before it was discontinued. Certainly not enough to warrant anyone tooling up for the existing user base. But that's not to say that the Hy6 couldn't be much more popular if there were attractive options for a back other than what currently exists. I suspect there are legal and logistical roadblocks that make this unlikely... which is a shame.
 

BradleyGibson

New member
Marc, it's not just the three of us, I'm sure there's a fourth out there somewhere
I'll be fourth! (Sorry, Peter--stole your spot in line...) :)

The arguments that Leaf isn't Phase or Phase doesn't have what Leaf has are baffling to me. It seems to me that this LEAF back could be offered in Hy6 mount with a minimum of effort by Leaf Imaging (wholly owned by Phase One), if they so desired, given the existence of the AFi-II 10R.

(Granted, there could be significant work to do, or there might not be--hard to say, not knowing how they've designed the II series architecture. I'm simply assuming they designed it with an eye to be updated to new sensors.)

Regardless, I'm with Graham. I'd give it serious consideration if it were an option.
 

yaya

Active member
It seems you are right about that. We just have to convince them that they are missing an opportunity (and they are!)
You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

Yair
 

Paratom

Well-known member
You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

Yair
I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products, not the other way around. If we have to make your market research, marketing and sales work than we expect to discount the price to <15k -
if the discount is large enough I would consider to buy one
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I'll be fourth! (Sorry, Peter--stole your spot in line...) :)

The arguments that Leaf isn't Phase or Phase doesn't have what Leaf has are baffling to me. It seems to me that this LEAF back could be offered in Hy6 mount with a minimum of effort by Leaf Imaging (wholly owned by Phase One), if they so desired, given the existence of the AFi-II 10R.

(Granted, there could be significant work to do, or there might not be--hard to say, not knowing how they've designed the II series architecture. I'm simply assuming they designed it with an eye to be updated to new sensors.)

Regardless, I'm with Graham. I'd give it serious consideration if it were an option.
Just yankin' your chain Bradley ... hope it works out for you guys that ponied up for the HY6 then were left holding the bag. Terrific camera and a real shame it met such a fate ... there should be one premium camera out there like it with all the advanced features. Wish someone would also resurrect the Contax 645 with updated workings. I fear neither is going to happen, and MFD is all the poorer for it.

-Marc
 

yaya

Active member
I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products, not the other way around. If we have to make your market research, marketing and sales work than we expect to discount the price to <15k -
if the discount is large enough I would consider to buy one
Maybe I should re-phrase that one:

Assuming we make such a back, will the 5 Hy6 owners here buy it for €25K or more?
 

David K

Workshop Member
You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

Yair
Therein lies the rub... Having watched my Sinar e75LV depreciate in price from approx. $30k to less than $10k in a few short years I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Perhaps others who have been fortunate enough to have offset that loss with earnings from using it would feel differently. Or possibly an attractive trade-in program would make it more palatable.
 

thomas

New member
I allways thought suppliers convince their customers to buy their products
exactly. The question here is: how many customers do we talk about?? I guess the number is so small that you really can't talk about a "market".

you can't save souls in an empty church...
 
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thomas

New member
Therein lies the rub... Having watched my Sinar e75LV depreciate in price from approx. $30k to less than $10k in a few short years I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Perhaps others who have been fortunate enough to have offset that loss with earnings from using it would feel differently. Or possibly an attractive trade-in program would make it more palatable.
thinking about "long term investment" it definitely makes more sense to change the camera mount rather sooner than later. So if you buy into e.g. Contax or AFi mount today the chance to sell the back for a reasonable price in a few years is really bad. So either live with the potential loss of value or switch the camera platform.

Me personally I'd probably use such a high rez monster exclusively on a tech camera... so if I'd buy one I'd most likely take one in Phase/Mamiya mount and keep my retro DBs for the Contax. Simpy because it's easier to sell a back in that mount one day (if necessary).
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

Yair
I'm sure you have some names from Photokina already :) Anyway, I'll try and visit you in London next week. I just emailed you about that.
 

xinchenc

New member
I have a suggestion: how about to find out the starting clients from Hy6/AFi
users through Leaf dealers? Let’s say if Leaf can find out 5 potential clients
who would like to buy new AFi-II 12 back or upgrade their existing AFi backs AND
willing to be asked for a $5000~$10000 non-refundable deposit, will Leaf develope
such a AFi-II 12 back? I believe Leaf can have a try which will not hurt anyone.

Porsche was not sure to produce 918 till they received about positive response from 2000 people. Why Leaf cannot do that? Check this:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/110071227334/porsche-918-supercar-to-get-500000-price-tag
 

6x7

New member
Maybe I should re-phrase that one:

Assuming we make such a back, will the 5 Hy6 owners here buy it for €25K or more?
very funny discussion.. NO YAIR, no need to re-phrase it !! let the folks re-think it. the offer to develop a custom solution for the few using a not so popular / not so widely spread system is a honorable thing. even more so doing it for the regular price of 25K. what more can you ask for… this I call communication.

now please can somebody tell me what is so special about the HY6/AFI ? I never got the chance to put my fingers on one. the only thing I saw was some gorgeous impressions shot with the 80mm xenotar. and well ok.. WLF and 45° prism.. which is not truly a exclusive rollei feature…

and yes thomas… I bet there wouldn't be 5 orders placed if the mount would be available tomorrow :)
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
now please can somebody tell me what is so special about the HY6/AFI ? I never got the chance to put my fingers on one. the only thing I saw was some gorgeous impressions shot with the 80mm xenotar. and well ok.. WLF and 45° prism.. which is not truly a exclusive rollei feature…
- There is metering built into the camera body, so metering and AE modes work with all viewfinder options.
- It actually has viewfinder options unlike some!
- great lenses, fast apertures and with leaf shutters offering up to 1/1000 flash sync
- by using a 6x6 format, the camera can remain upright at all times while just the sensor/back is rotated between landscape and portrait. This also allows use of WLF in portrait mode!
- more obscure features such as focus bracketing and focus trapping

The first 4 on the list are really what nail it for me.
 

David K

Workshop Member
doing it for the regular price of 25K. what more can you ask for
That's the price in Euros... in dollars it's closer to $33k. Folks might differ on whether this is a reasonable price or not but what makes it economically painful is how little value existing backs have.
 

jps

New member
You can start the convincing process by sending me a list of names and contact details of those who want to buy an 80MP back for their AFi/ Hy6 and who are ready to place an order for >25K EUR.

If the list is long enough we'll consider developing a new back.

Yair
Yair
Please put me down on your list! I will email you my details.

Thanks JOHN
 

David Klepacki

New member
- There is metering built into the camera body, so metering and AE modes work with all viewfinder options.
- It actually has viewfinder options unlike some!
- great lenses, fast apertures and with leaf shutters offering up to 1/1000 flash sync
- by using a 6x6 format, the camera can remain upright at all times while just the sensor/back is rotated between landscape and portrait. This also allows use of WLF in portrait mode!
- more obscure features such as focus bracketing and focus trapping

The first 4 on the list are really what nail it for me.
Another option is to use the 645DF camera and add square crop lines to the focusing screen. With a 80MP sensor, you can then compose with square format and get a 60MP square image, when you do not wish to rotate the camera. The DF camera gives you the added advantage of faster leaf shutters up to 1/1600 flash sync as well as the new Schneider lenses, including the fast aperture LS lenses and the tilt/shift ones that were just announced at Photokina. Also, the next version of the camera (e.g., DF-II) will most likely have interchangeable viewfinder options.
 

jps

New member
Just to explain my reasons for wanting to order a back in hy6 mount. I have a hy6 system and a arTec with a few lenses - so a considerable investment in hy6 mount cameras. The cameras and lenses are EXCELLENT and I see nothing camera wise on the market that remotely tempts me ( apart from ARCA ) In fact Im also happy with my LVR75 back. The lure of the Leaf back is the wider sensor and its use with wide lenses.I am prepared to fork out the money for one but shudder at the thought of selling all my gear and starting from scratch.
Cheers
JOHN
oh and to add to Graham's list - the zeiss 110 f2 lens is a reason in itself to have a hy6!!
 
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