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Thread: Pentax 645D goes global in December

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    Pentax 645D goes global in December

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10...vailbility.asp


    Photokina 2010: Pentax has announced its 645D medium format digital camera will start shipping globally from December 2010. The camera will sell at a retail price of $9999.99 for the body in the US. In the UK, it will be priced at 9000 for the body and 10000 for the kit with the DFA 55mm 645 SDM lens. The first digital version of the company's 645 medium format camera system, it features a 40MP, 44 x 33mm CCD sensor, 921k dot 3.0" LCD and is compatible with the existing 645 system lenses.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Looking forward to seeing more images from this camera. The price point is very attractive... especially for the features it offers.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Good for them. Nice to see it coming outside of Japan
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    I expect to see a lot of Nikon/Canon shooters moving up since nothing BIG was announced in there camps. Good timing for Pentax
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I expect to see a lot of Nikon/Canon shooters moving up since nothing BIG was announced in there camps. Good timing for Pentax
    I expect also those still with 22mp mfdb may be looking at this as well.
    with higher iso, higher mpx count..and better autofocus, this could get market share from both ends..pro + amateur alike..
    "leica taste on a pentax budget" syndrome may fit a big group and sell a bunch of systems.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    I wonder if Phase/leaf and Hassy will try to compete at this price point.
    maybe not... but still
    am

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    I wonder if Phase/leaf and Hassy will try to compete at this price point.
    maybe not... but still
    am
    It's not just the price point, but some of the features. The Pentax has some features a Canon or Nikon users has come to expect.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Wonder if anyone got any data as to a road map of other lenses and such.
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10...vailbility.asp


    Photokina 2010: Pentax has announced its 645D medium format digital camera will start shipping globally from December 2010. The camera will sell at a retail price of $9999.99 for the body in the US. In the UK, it will be priced at 9000 for the body and 10000 for the kit with the DFA 55mm 645 SDM lens. The first digital version of the company's 645 medium format camera system, it features a 40MP, 44 x 33mm CCD sensor, 921k dot 3.0" LCD and is compatible with the existing 645 system lenses.
    Terry, I still think that price is a little high considering they don't have established digital MF confidence/customers.. for that price, I see more people going Phase/Leaf/Hassy even if they have to pay a bit more because of the resale value and established network etc.. I was expecting Pentax to go as far as 7999.99 near DSLR price range and at later date once they establish customer base they can boost their prices if they feel they need or have to..

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    I'm pretty sure it is the same sensor as the P40+ which is more than double the price at which this is coming to market.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    It's not a P40+ sensor the Pentax is a Kodak chip and rated at 11.5 stops of DR . The Phase is 12.5 and is Dalsa. It is a 6 micron though

    The PENTAX 645D incorporates a high-performance CCD image sensor produced by Kodak. Which more in line with the S2 and Hassy 40 which also use Kodak in this size
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    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Crap. I now have to decide between this thing or the New H4D-31.

    Hard to do when you cant get your hands on the Pentax to try it. I'm thinking that would be a pretty big leap of faith for me to take. (I need the camera before I go abroad for 6 months in February 2011).

    Tough, tough, tough.

    Any thoughts on the differences between these two, anyone?

    -Alex

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    If it was ME and given I need everything as a system in place than in this case between the two go Hassy even though it IS a older generation sensor it is and was a workhorse for a long time. I had the P31+ which is the same and it was a good back. But I'm not your normal buyer either I buy SYSTEMS not camera's if you know what I mean. I want everything in place including software and support. So tough call for hobbyists because the Pentax looks nice and has the newer sensors but like the S2 it needs to age some. Only one dedicated lens today but obviously you can use the older 6x7 glass.

    Here you need to sit down and do the Pro's and Con's on each system and figure out what works best for you and also since this is entry level what about upgrades and such. Sorry I have to be the logical one on this stuff but it takes thought and hate to see people make mistakes. Not that the Pentax is a mistake by any stretch it's new and what is the future on it and down the road firmware, lenses, support which at the moment is all unknown.

    Have a correction here you can also use the Pentax 645 lenses as well
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    In the entry level category, you may potentially add the P30+ if the new price is aggressive. The choice might be even tougher!

    Guy, assuming a good price on the P30+, how would view the P30+ vs H4D-31? Would it be fair to say, that it's probably just a matter of P1 vs Hassy system for these those cameras that are probably more on par than different?
    Francois B.

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    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Guy-

    That is exactly the things I have been thinking about. The older lenses scare me a little (not sure why... I just would rather KNOW I am getting quality glass like the Hasse system). I also worry about the ergonomics of the cam. I loved the H4D. I didn't like the Phase DF at all. Why? Just the way they hit my hands. No way to know that unless you hold the camera, you know?

    I guess the only way to do this properly is to hope that they get them over here ASAP in December. I could theoretically test one and buy before I would be leaving in late January or early February.

    The age of the Hasse sensor doesn't scare me... It is WAY more than I have now, and would be plenty for anything I see myself doing for quite some time. Not to mention there's no way I could afford a new 40mp back/system (outside the Pentax).

    All I know, is that the price is right on both systems, and on paper they both fit my needs. Only reason I hesitate on the Pentax is simply the newness of it.

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    Alexander DeVoe
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by Mozbee View Post
    In the entry level category, you may potentially add the P30+ if the new price is aggressive. The choice might be even tougher!

    Guy, assuming a good price on the P30+, how would view the P30+ vs H4D-31? Would it be fair to say, that it's probably just a matter of P1 vs Hassy system for these those cameras that are probably more on par than different?
    For me, the files looked quite similar between the H3DII-31 (supposedly the H4D-31 is the same back...) and the P30+. Same sensor so they are pretty close, but they are handled a little differently. Longer exposure maximums on the P30+, but I personally like the Hasse glass/body better. Try them. Best way to find out between the two. For every Hasse fan, you'll find a Phase fan. All about the feel and which system you want to buy into (All this is just in my opinion - correct me if I'm off!).

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    For me, the Hassy system, including Phocus is a great tool to have in your corner. From start to finish i'm very happy with my H3DII-31. The lenses, including the 35-90 are just phenomenal. And lenses can be picked up on the used market anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3rd retail price. Not bad.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    It's announced to come to Germany in January 2011, 10.000 for body only and 11.000 with 55mm lens (prices should include 19% VAT, but I'm not sure about this). A good friend might have one for a test then, so I will have the chance to compare it to my AFI-II 7 (and also Sony A900). But first I have to learn working with the AFI (have it for some 2 weeks now - and really love this beast )...

    Andreas

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Try to answer a few questions here . The P30+ and H 31 share the same Kodak 6.8 sensor both have micro lenses. So technical they are pretty much the same coming from Kodak. The difference will be the software C1 with the P30+ you can go to ISO 1600 and yes it is pretty good. Obviously ISO 800 is better. Hassy at one time with Phocus the H31 was rated at ISO 800 but I think there was a Phocus update that you can get 1600. Not sure about this and I know a Hassy person will step to the plate here and confirm that.

    So with both these backs they are basically the same . Now a used P30+ back is around 8500 plus a AFDII and your in for 10K or so. The difference as we know the back and body are mated to each other with Hassy so you just can't buy a used H31 back. Now you could buy a used H3/31 used also and I would imagine around the same or a little less. The difference here is they are using the 31 back but mating it to the upgraded H4 body and selling that new for whatever was posted or announced. So you get the old and that is a bad word but older generation back with a new body to go with it.

    So in this sensor you have a few ways to go. P30+, AFD/AFDII/AFDIII or DF
    H31 used with H3D body or H4D H31 new. I am pretty sure the H3 body you can only get used. If I am wrong I will get corrected and I hope so. Hate bad data so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

    Now back to the Pentax it is sharing the same basic Kodak sensor as the S2, H40 and H50. obviously different sizes and some with micro lenses . I think the 50 is the exception on micro lenses. Phase products along with Leaf in the new breed are all Dalsa being the P40 and P65 with no micro lenses.

    Remember also micro lenses and tech cams don't blend well so if that is a option down the road buy without the micro lenses because of color casts and also Dalsa seems to be better than Kodak on color casts at least in the Phase products I have used.

    Hope I got that all correct. As you know and what we drill here on this forum is find what feels good in your hand and what works for you both in ergos, system and don't forget software which is more important than folks think. End of day any one of these sensors and combinations with body will produce excellent files.

    Damn forgot to add the Leica S2 here and that is also a Kodak sensor 6 micron of the same new breed rated at 37mpx and also uses micro lenses as well. Given this and the Pentax are from the same cloth of integrated body and sensor and more 35mm DSLR style of ergos.
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    I did forget something the P30+ can do LONG exposures rated to 1 hour . I have done 35 minutes myself. I think Hassy is rated much less. Can't find the answer at the moment. Help LOL

    It does get confusing
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    You can do ISO1600 on the 31 in Phocus now. You have 1 minute exposure now as well. The H3D11-31 is still in stock at B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...al_Camera.html

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmiddi View Post
    It's announced to come to Germany in January 2011, 10.000 for body only and 11.000 with 55mm lens (prices should include 19% VAT, but I'm not sure about this). A good friend might have one for a test then, so I will have the chance to compare it to my AFI-II 7 (and also Sony A900). But first I have to learn working with the AFI (have it for some 2 weeks now - and really love this beast )...

    Andreas
    would take a brave man to shoot a pentax in germany..

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Luminous Landscape about a week or so ago had a hands on with the Pentax and there is a video with the Pentax rep to go along with it. While there is only one new digitally optimized lens to start there are a lot of lenses out there that will AF and retain other integrated camera functions. Here is the link and an excerpt from the hands on

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...5d-first.shtml

    "Pentax enters the MF race with the largest existing system of 645 lenses. Ranging from 35mm to 400mm, the original Pentax 645 lens system gained a solid reputation for quality, along with very attractive pricing. The Pentax 645D can use all of these lenses (with a 1.3x crop factor), without any loss of functionality, which will be music to the ears of thousands of photographers who held on to their systems rather than fire-sale them on EBay over the last few years.
    With at least the last generation of 645 "FA" autofocus lenses, the 645D is able to recognize which lens is mounted. This allows access to a number of the camera's features, including shifts in program curves to match the focal length and optimum aperture and the simple, but convenient, addition of lens information to image metadata.
    Pentax is also planning a new line of digitally optimized lenses. The first of these is the 55mm f2.8, which features ultrasonic focusing, which Pentax calls SDM (Supersonic Direct Drive Motor). A new fixed wide angle (read very wide) is rumoured to be the next addition to the lineup. These lenses are "digitally optimized", a phrase we have all come to know, if not understand. Bill Gouge of Pentax was careful to note that there may be some chromatic aberrations visible with older lenses, due to the tighter tolerance of the digital image plane vs film. (In the video accompanying this article Bill mentions the possibility of reduced image quality -- this applies only to older lenses, not the new digital lens-line). This will require detailed testing when a production camera with final firmware is available. I didn't see anything in my few early snaps, but this is something I will look at closely, especially with lenses at the extremes of the range."

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    You can do ISO1600 on the 31 in Phocus now. You have 1 minute exposure now as well. The H3D11-31 is still in stock at B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...al_Camera.html
    Love having backups. LOL

    Thanks for clarifying
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Thanks Terry have to remember the 645 FA glass. Looks like some scavenger hunts are in order.
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander DeVoe View Post
    Crap. I now have to decide between this thing or the New H4D-31.

    Hard to do when you cant get your hands on the Pentax to try it. I'm thinking that would be a pretty big leap of faith for me to take. (I need the camera before I go abroad for 6 months in February 2011).

    Tough, tough, tough.

    Any thoughts on the differences between these two, anyone?

    -Alex
    The main difference is that the H4 is a leaf shutter system and the Pentax is a focal plane shutter camera, and the H4 has a huge array of AF dedicated lenses in the market ... including available used ones. The Hassey is modular and offers a waist level finder.

    The 31 is on an H4D body ... this gets you True Focus/Focus confirmation. I cannot tell you what a huge difference this has made for AF off-center subject compositions. It's faster, more accurate out to the edges than the top 35mm DSLRs.

    That said, the Pentax looks like it has a lot of nice, well thought out features for those who use that sort of stuff ... i.e., 35mm DSLRs users ... and has a higher res. LCD.

    -Marc

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Apparently DPR was jumping the gun a bit with respect to the US market:

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...645d-news.html

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    If it was ME and given I need everything as a system in place than in this case between the two go Hassy even though it IS a older generation sensor it is and was a workhorse for a long time. I had the P31+ which is the same and it was a good back. But I'm not your normal buyer either I buy SYSTEMS not camera's if you know what I mean. I want everything in place including software and support. So tough call for hobbyists because the Pentax looks nice and has the newer sensors but like the S2 it needs to age some. Only one dedicated lens today but obviously you can use the older 6x7 glass.

    Here you need to sit down and do the Pro's and Con's on each system and figure out what works best for you and also since this is entry level what about upgrades and such. Sorry I have to be the logical one on this stuff but it takes thought and hate to see people make mistakes. Not that the Pentax is a mistake by any stretch it's new and what is the future on it and down the road firmware, lenses, support which at the moment is all unknown.

    Have a correction here you can also use the Pentax 645 lenses as well
    I agree, I would go with the Hasselblad too. Three main reasons: 1. Good lens choices, 2. The HTS 1.5, and 3. TrueFocus.

    Something else to think about - Pentax is 14-bit, Hassy is 16-bit. Maybe someone experienced with this can comment on whether this is a significant difference or not?

    With the Pentax, my concern is that while all their old 645 lenses will work, are they up to snuff for a 40mp sensor? Because I would be if I spent $9,000 on a camera body and I couldn't get lenses that made the most of it.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    14-bit image capture = 4.3 trillion colors (2^14)^3
    16-bit image capture = 281.4 trillion colors (2^16)^3

    Lots more crayons in the box.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Greetings to everyone. Sorry for my English, is google translator.

    I've been using 6008 Rollei, Hasselblad 2000, 903 ... and my last medium format camera was and is the Pentax 645N II. It is a fantastic camera, fast, comfortable, lightweight, very well designed. It has excellent optical, as the 45-85/4,5 , 80-160/4,5 , 70/2,8 , 120/4 macro, 150/2,8. All these lenses are great, cheap and very small and light, which i value greatly.

    I have no doubt that the 645D will be just as good and pleasant to use, and have experience with Pentax digital 35 mm.

    Greetings to everyone.

    ManuelGF

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    14-bit image capture = 4.3 trillion colors (2^14)^3
    16-bit image capture = 281.4 trillion colors (2^16)^3

    Lots more crayons in the box.
    You know i was recently told that Hasselblad wasn't true 16 bit. And that it was marketing hype, i'll have to find that thread. I wonder if it's true.

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    You know i was recently told that Hasselblad wasn't true 16 bit. And that it was marketing hype, i'll have to find that thread. I wonder if it's true.

    Here you go:
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...topic=46162.20

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Specifically:

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks
    Yes, unfortunately.

    There is a myth of better DR in MF digital. It used be true, a fact; but when belief persists when the fact no longer does, then it becomes a myth.

    8 or so years ago when DSLRS had high sensor readnoise (around 20 electrons), in the same ballpark as MFDBs, then it was true that MF digital had a substantial DR advantage.

    But it is now a myth, largely because people (and indeed manufacturers' advertising blurbs) only look at one half of the DR equation: full well capacity. MF has larger pixels (for a given total pixel count), so it has larger FWC.

    Ever since CMOS replaced CCD for DSLRs, they have been eating into that advantage, by driving down sensor readnoise; currently the best are only 2 or 3 electrons at mid-ISOs. But at mid-ISO you are utilising less of the FWC than at base ISO, so this renders the mid-ISO DR of DSLRs very good but not spectacular (usually 11-and-a-bit stops). At base ISO, you get the complete FWC but countering that, DSLRs still have stubbornly high low-ISO readnoise because the main contributor is the ADC, not the sensor itself. So again you usually get 11-and-a-bit or maybe 12 stops. All told, this means that DSLRs are around par with the MFDBs, which also have 12 +/- a bit stops.

    However Nikon seems to have cracked the problem with ADC noise at low ISO in the D3x, and this explains its huge DR score (13.65 stops at base ISO) in the DXO tests.

    So if you "figured MF has more range", you have to realise that there is no magic involved in MF digital. It obeys the same rules as 35mm and smaller digital. If or when Kodak and DALSA can get their sensor readnoise down from 11 or 13 electrons (their current best) to 2 or 3 electrons, then MF will regain the upper hand. It certainly can be that low for large CCDs, but it nearly always requires much longer readout times than photographers are likely to put up with. Astronomers are not as fussy about waiting* .

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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    OK, I looked at that thread on Luminous Landscapes and the topic jumped from color space to dynamic range and everyone got confused. The 14-bit vs 16-bit discussion is with regard to number of colors, not stops of dynamic range. The DR champ is currently RED with 18+ stops. The Pentax 645D has 14-bit color, while the Hasselblad H4D-31 has 16-bit color.

    PDNOnline reported today:

    But the camera, which can use all Pentax 645 legacy film lenses and, with the help of an adapter, 67 lenses, has not shipped in the U.S. or even Europe yet due to overwhelming demand (and a limited supply) in Japan. We met with Ned Bunnell president of Pentax USA, during photokina on Thursday to find out what the deal was.

    "We're going to start to bring the 645D into the States in late November or early December but that's based on availability," he told us. "We're still fighting fairly significant back orders in Japan."

    Bunnell added that the camera will be on display at the PDN-sponsored PhotoPlus Expo show in New York City next month but he couldn't guarantee there will be more than one working model on the show floor. (If there is only one 645D, Bunnell could be the most popular man at the Jacob Javits Center.)

    "PhotoPlus is where we'll make our splash," he said, while noting that when the camera does come into the U.S., Pentax will be offering one-on-one support to 645D customers.

    "What we're saying is, if a photographer buys this camera, we will provide that photographer with direct contact to one of our support staff in Golden, Co. It's different from if you bought one of our traditional cameras in the past when you got a support group. In this case, you'll have a name." Pentax plans to officially announce this new 645D support plan at PhotoPlus Expo.

    Bunnell was pleased with the news this week that Hasselblad would also release a sub-$10,000 medium format camera, the 31MP H4D-31. "That was validation that medium-format can be made affordable at a fairly attractive price."
    For the record, I will be at the Javits Center for PhotoPlus and I will be all over the Pentax display trying to get my mitts on the 645D for some test shots.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  35. #35
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Carlos,

    At PhotoPlus, if you see a guy with curly hair and a handlebar moustache, good chance it's me. Say hello. I'm going to stop by the Pentax booth at some point.

  36. #36
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    Re: Pentax 645D goes global in December

    Will do, Dave.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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