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Thread: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

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    APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Not sure it has been mentioned before...
    Schneider just introduced a new APO-Digitar 5,6/60 with 120mm image circle.

    google translation:
    The APO-Digitar is a new design with a focal length of 60 mm. It was designed for studio photographers who need a standard lens with normal color perception and large Verstellreserven for compensation or for shifts in perspective. The very large image circle of 120 mm can be generous adjustments of apochromatic corrected to 8-lens double-Gauss lens. Recent process and production technologies enable the mass production image quality in a previously unknown quality.

    http://www.pressebox.de/pressemeldun...h/boxid/374504

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Yes, Alpa had it listed in the News section with the release of all their new products. They list it as: Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/60 mm XL - Schneider ALPA Apo-Helvetar 5.6/60 mm. 120mm image circle is intriguing.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    would be good to have an MTF chart from Schneider on this so one can compare it to the Rodenstocks, and see what is traded off in resolution to get that image circle. There is nothing on their site as yet.

    with the new ~5 micron pixel backs appearing, it may be that a Digaron-S is one of the few lenses to do justice to their potential.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    if you intend to shoot @ F11 and need a large image cicrcle , then the sironar digital 55 is quite good for the price... that new lens, should be much better at larger aperture indeed !

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Connected with this discussion is the fact that the new ~5micron pitch pixels we are seeing emerging with the 80Mp sensors, puts quite a lot of demands on these lenses.

    The Digitar-S range is the only one by Rodenstock that can really live up to such ultra high resolution backs <6um. That range had fallen out of favor, with the Digaron-W's coming more to the fore, for stitching, but I expect them to re-emerge to a certain degree.

    I have the 60mm Digaron-S (for Alpa) and it not only has stunning resolution, but also has zero Longitudinal Chromatic Aberration. No out of focus areas with red/green color fringes! It is also a great walk-around lens as its light and fast-ish at f4.0.

    I am tempted to try the new Schneider 60mm f/5.6 offering, but will need to see charts of its resolutions and aberations first.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Does anyone know the price of this lens in a Cambo T/S mount? The lens itself is listed around the $3k mark, and Cambo usually charge $1.3k for retrofitting in a T/S mount ... so that should make it around the $4.3k mark...right?

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    At LL a few days ago Lance Schad of Digital Transitions mentioned USD$5099 for this lens in standard Cambo mount. No firm delivery date yet.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=53301.0

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Does anyone know the price of this lens in a Cambo T/S mount? The lens itself is listed around the $3k mark, and Cambo usually charge $1.3k for retrofitting in a T/S mount ... so that should make it around the $4.3k mark...right?
    That really make Sinars seem cost-effective ...even if you buy them new!

    Does that mounting cost include the cost of a shutter?

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Wow...you're effectively paying $2k for the mount if you buy the lens pre-mounted (I'm assuming that is the price for the more expensive T/S mount - if not, add another $500).

    It does include the cost of a shutter...but $5k is still about $700 more than buying the lens and sending it to Cambo to be mounted...which doesn't make any sense to me...unless this is the profit for the retailer (of the mounted lens)?
    Last edited by f8orbust; 24th April 2011 at 06:36.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    I had this lens on order since December (before Copal shutters went up in price) and I was going to use it with my P40+ in conjunction with my 35mm Schneider. This past week I finally gave up and decided to just get the 43mm to use on the IQ180 (sold 35mm).

    The pricing above seems a bit high for Cambo mount unless they increased the price of the lens even before it's been released.

    This lens has been REALLLLLLY slow to make it to market now in at least the seventh month since Photokina.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    The pricing above seems a bit high for Cambo mount unless they increased the price of the lens even before it's been released.
    I was told by my dealer last week that Cambo has recently increased their prices. This may explain the discrepancy?

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    I was told by my dealer last week that Cambo has recently increased their prices. This may explain the discrepancy?
    That's a shame. One of the attractions of Cambo was that its products were pitched at a price point below Alpa and Arca.

    That said, maybe Alpa and Arca will put their prices up as well .

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    look here re new alpa pricing comments:

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=53648.0

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    At LL a few days ago Lance Schad of Digital Transitions mentioned USD$5099 for this lens in standard Cambo mount. No firm delivery date yet.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=53301.0
    Just got an updated price list from Cambo today and the Retail Price of the 60mm Digitar in Cambo plate is $5099 and t/s version has a Retail Price of $6425.

    As always I suggest working with your preferred reseller for pricing and current availabilty.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Just got an updated price list from Cambo today and the Retail Price of the 60mm Digitar in Cambo plate is $5099 and t/s version has a Retail Price of $6425.

    As always I suggest working with your preferred reseller for pricing and current availabilty.

    Lance
    *Sound of me falling off chair*

    $6425 for the T/S version...crikey...when I had my 72mm mounted the price difference was about $500 between the standard mount and the T/S one, now for the 60mm it's a whopping great $1326. Unbelievable - a lens that is even more expensive than the Alpa equivalent .

    So...hang on...where's the abacus...quick calculation...this makes the cost of the T/S mount itself (for this lens) $3366...that's even more expensive than the lens itself (with all the precision ground glass elements, finely machined parts and copal shutter)...quite simply...staggering.

    Now, if you buy this lens and then send it to Cambo to be mounted in a T/S mount, it should cost in the region of $4.4k all in - i.e. $2k less than if, er, Cambo buy the lens (for less than you or I), mount it and sell it to us via a retailer. Other than convenience, I just don't see why anyone would pay the extra $2k.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Wow...you're effectively paying $2k for the mount if you buy the lens pre-mounted (I'm assuming that is the price for the more expensive T/S mount - if not, add another $500).

    It does include the cost of a shutter...but $5k is still about $700 more than buying the lens and sending it to Cambo to be mounted...which doesn't make any sense to me...unless this is the profit for the retailer (of the mounted lens)?

    Not the case. You're forgetting the cost of the helical focusing mount, then the tilt/shift lens panel, which comes out to roughly $1,800 or so. The addition of the T/S to the panel has always been (roughly) $1,200 - $1,400. If you can purchase a Schneider 60mm for $3,000, then it might make sense to do so.

    In fact, this could be a case of conversion rates gone sour because several lenses come out better this way currently - less expensive to buy a Schneider then have a Cambo dealer mount it, as opposed to buying the whole lens and panel from a Cambo dealer.


    Steve Hendrix


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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    That's a shame. One of the attractions of Cambo was that its products were pitched at a price point below Alpa and Arca.

    That said, maybe Alpa and Arca will put their prices up as well .

    As has been noted, pricing across the board has gone up due to the Copal Shutter agreement and price increase (doubling of the shutter price to manufacturers).

    Generally, Arca Swiss will have the lowest lens pricing because their helical focusing mount is on the body (as is the tilt mechanism), rather than a complete helical focusing system for each lens. So if you're buying three or more normal lenses, or at least two tilt/swing lenses, the pricing of the Arca Swiss and Cambo systems overall will in fact be very comparable. If you're only buying a body and one lens (what's the fun in that? ), the Cambo will be less expensive.


    Steve Hendrix


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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    In fact, this could be a case of conversion rates gone sour because several lenses come out better this way currently - less expensive to buy a Schneider then have a Cambo dealer mount it, as opposed to buying the whole lens and panel from a Cambo dealer.
    Surely the multiple shipping and insurance fees involved in sending a lens back and forth would go some way in absorbing any potential savings. Not to mention taxes/duties and potential hassles with Customs.

    And what happens if there is a problem with the lens? Do you send it back to the retailer you purchased the lens from or Cambo? How do you establish whether the problem existed before or after being mounted?

    The convenience factor is not merely that you get a mounted lens in one step from a Cambo dealer. It's also the convenience of having one port of call to deal with if anything goes wrong. I'd personally much rather let my local dealer thrash out any issues on my behalf with Cambo, rather than juggling multiple suppliers and warranties by myself. Consider it a form of insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Generally, Arca Swiss will have the lowest lens pricing because their helical focusing mount is on the body (as is the tilt mechanism), rather than a complete helical focusing system for each lens.
    A further complicating factor is that Arca is not well represented in some countries, not to mention their long lead times and lack of communication. This was a factor in my decision when I was deciding on Alpa/Arca/Cambo/Sinar. As always, a good dealer is imperative, especially one with a decent working relationship with the manufacturer (whoever it may be).

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Not the case. You're forgetting the cost of the helical focusing mount, then the tilt/shift lens panel, which comes out to roughly $1,800 or so. The addition of the T/S to the panel has always been (roughly) $1,200 - $1,400. If you can purchase a Schneider 60mm for $3,000, then it might make sense to do so.

    In fact, this could be a case of conversion rates gone sour because several lenses come out better this way currently - less expensive to buy a Schneider then have a Cambo dealer mount it, as opposed to buying the whole lens and panel from a Cambo dealer.


    Steve Hendrix


    Steve Hendrix
    Just checking my factoids here. When I got my 72mm retrofitted in late 2009, in a standard lens panel, the price was $900. From memory, I believe the price I was quoted for a T/S panel was $1295. I never thought that this was $1295 in addition to the $900, rather it was one or the other - i.e. making the addition of the T/S mechanism somewhere around the $400 mark (since whether you mount the lens in a standard or T/S panel you're still paying for a helical). I stand corrected if I misunderstood the pricing structure.

    Just out of curiosity then, does this mean that if I wanted to get my 72mm converted to a T/S panel I would pay for the addition of a T/S mechanism or for a new panel + T/S mechanism (since I assume the panel is slightly shorter to accommodate the added depth of the T/S mechanism)?

    Buying the Schneider 60mm with Copal 0 shutter for $3k (once released) can be done here for example.
    Last edited by f8orbust; 26th April 2011 at 05:55.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    Surely the multiple shipping and insurance fees involved in sending a lens back and forth would go some way in absorbing any potential savings. Not to mention taxes/duties and potential hassles with Customs.

    And what happens if there is a problem with the lens? Do you send it back to the retailer you purchased the lens from or Cambo? How do you establish whether the problem existed before or after being mounted?

    The convenience factor is not merely that you get a mounted lens in one step from a Cambo dealer. It's also the convenience of having one port of call to deal with if anything goes wrong. I'd personally much rather let my local dealer thrash out any issues on my behalf with Cambo, rather than juggling multiple suppliers and warranties by myself. Consider it a form of insurance.



    A further complicating factor is that Arca is not well represented in some countries, not to mention their long lead times and lack of communication. This was a factor in my decision when I was deciding on Alpa/Arca/Cambo/Sinar. As always, a good dealer is imperative, especially one with a decent working relationship with the manufacturer (whoever it may be).

    In either case, a good dealer could still be the sole supplier, whether you ordered the lens in the lenspanel or if you first purchased the lens, then ordered it to be mounted.


    Steve Hendrix
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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    Surely the multiple shipping and insurance fees involved in sending a lens back and forth would go some way in absorbing any potential savings. Not to mention taxes/duties and potential hassles with Customs.
    It's not as difficult nor as expensive as you'd imagine. Since the lenses are only being imported temporarily there are no duties or taxes to pay on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    And what happens if there is a problem with the lens? Do you send it back to the retailer you purchased the lens from or Cambo? How do you establish whether the problem existed before or after being mounted?
    A fair point. On the flip side, you know that the front and rear elements are a matched pair (with any shims required) rather than just separately purchased front and rear element assemblies with a Copal shutter thrown in for good measure (see the Joseph Holmes article, for example).

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    The convenience factor is not merely that you get a mounted lens in one step from a Cambo dealer. It's also the convenience of having one port of call to deal with if anything goes wrong. I'd personally much rather let my local dealer thrash out any issues on my behalf with Cambo, rather than juggling multiple suppliers and warranties by myself. Consider it a form of insurance.
    If I could afford it, I would too. Contrary to what you would believe reading many forums, the margins for lots of professionals (particularly those not shooting high end architecture, fashion, advertising etc.) are tight. If I can save $1k+ - I have to, I don't have a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    A further complicating factor is that Arca is not well represented in some countries, not to mention their long lead times and lack of communication. This was a factor in my decision when I was deciding on Alpa/Arca/Cambo/Sinar. As always, a good dealer is imperative, especially one with a decent working relationship with the manufacturer (whoever it may be).
    Spot on, and it's not just Arca - though they seem to take most flak because they don't have a website. Where I live (and, I'd imagine, many others) there is no dealer that has demo kit from Arca, Alpa or Cambo on hand to play around with. Purchases have to be made on the basis of feedback from end users on forums like getdpi, which is why a quality forum like this is so important.
    Last edited by f8orbust; 26th April 2011 at 07:01.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    The addition of the T/S to the panel has always been (roughly) $1,200 - $1,400
    Sorry Steve, I'm not being belligerent here, just trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Having looked at the Calumet website - which has had pretty much every lens available in T/S mount added to it since the last time I looked - the price differential between standard and T/S mount appears to always fall in the range of $500 - $700. In light of this, the difference of $1326 between the new Schneider 60mm standard mount and the T/S mount is difficult to fathom.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Sorry Steve, I'm not being belligerent here, just trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Having looked at the Calumet website - which has had pretty much every lens available in T/S mount added to it since the last time I looked - the price differential between standard and T/S mount appears to always fall in the range of $500 - $700. In light of this, the difference of $1326 between the new Schneider 60mm standard mount and the T/S mount is difficult to fathom.

    No worries f8 -

    It's different in the US (or whatever reason). It's always been around $1,200 (give or take a few), never 500 - $700. I can tell you in the US the dealer cost itself (not even the retail price) is way, way above those figures.


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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Odd...it was the Calumet US website that I looked at.

    e.g. Schneider 90mm Digitar N: Standard Mount = $2400, T/S Mount = $3100

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    it was the Calumet US website that I looked at.
    The information on the Calumet website may be outdated, especially in light of the recent price changes.

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    Re: APO-Digitar 5,6/60 | 120mm IC

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    If I could afford it, I would too.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of the price differential and the potential savings. I was writing more from my personal perspective of not being located in either the US or Europe, and not having the benefit of more dealers and greater competition to choose from. Purchasing unmounted lenses just wouldn't make financial or logistical sense in my situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    you know that the front and rear elements are a matched pair (with any shims required) rather than just separately purchased front and rear element assemblies with a Copal shutter thrown in for good measure (see the Joseph Holmes article, for example)
    As Robert Heinlein once wrote, TANSTAAFL. I've previously read Joseph Holme's articles (who hasn't?) and find his experiences disturbing to say the least.

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