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Thread: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

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    Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Hi all,
    I'm wondering if anyone has any leads on where I might find tests comparing image quality directly between Hasselblad's H3DII / H4D 31 and the H4D-40. I'm wanting to see direct, side by side comparisons up to 400ISO. I know that the 40mp back is said to be very much improved in noise levels, but I'd like to see some side by side proof.
    Thanks in advance.
    TJV

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    I have to jump in and say this would also be interesting to me as well.
    I've shot the 31 a lot, but never side by side with the 40 in a controlled environment.
    maybe we can go all the way up to ISO 1600....
    Thanks
    am

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    I think the prices for these systems have fallen far below what they were a few years back and are very attractive. I for one am very keen to jump from my current setup soon, although where I live it's difficult to get hands on time with any system. I may fly international to Sydney for a demo later in the year. In the mean time, these kind of solid tests would be of great benefit to me, at least. I often wonder why the camera brands themselves don't show such tests - not to show up their lesser / older products but to illustrate how their own technology has evolved or where your money goes. Probably a pipe dream...

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17536

    Look at the link above from a June 2010 post, samples are posted.

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Hi Giorgio
    I've actually shot with both camera's
    I think the idea is to actually shoot them side by side and have the same file to compare!
    thank you for the link.
    am

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    I seriously doubt that there will be any difference between the H3D-II/31 and the H4D/31 in terms of image quality. There is a difference in the 2 bodies for sure. I'd highly recommend the H4/31 version over the H3D-II/31 just for the focusing system improvements. Like the H4D, the H3D-II has micro-step AF adjustments to compensate for stopping down the aperture ... but it doesn't have the YAW based off-center focusing compensation which IMO is the BIG innovation in MFD AF ... it is amazing, and I love it.

    I used the H3D-II/31 prior to the H4D/40. They both have the same 1.3X crop factor ... the file sizes don't really alter THAT much between 31 and 40, but it is there. In theory, the slightly smaller pixel pitch and slightly greater resolution of the 40 should mitigate moiré a bit better.

    The most noticeable difference is the newer sensor technology ... which manifests itself in about a stop better ISO performance regarding dynamic range and noise. Also, the 40's noise structure feels more "film like" IMO, and is a bit more pleasant looking.

    All of these cameras have benefited from constant updates, and previous models get firmware updates for both the body and sensor unit right along with the new models, and have also benefited from the various upgrades in the Phocus software. So, I'm sure the 31 units produce better files than when I used one.

    -Marc

    BTW, it may be hard to do a side-by-side since anyone with a 40 probably doesn't have a 31 anymore
    Last edited by fotografz; 29th September 2010 at 16:08. Reason: Typo

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Thanks Marc! Your comments are right on the money.

    I will ask Product Management if they can rustle something up in way of a comparison, but what you say about sensor characteristics and ISO performance is spot on.

    David

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Thanks Marc and David.

    I'd really appreciate some controlled tests comparing the H4D-31 and H4D-40 through the ISO range in contrasty light. If Hasselblad are prepared to do this themselves I'd be really, really impressed. No other manufacturer has published such a test. The new H4D-31 is at a price that is seriously attractive to me but I wonder if I should push for the more expensive 40. The differences in resolution would probably almost be unnoticeable for me as I only print up to 20 x 25", but I wonder if I'd notice a difference in DR and noise between 100ISO and 400ISO that would justify the extra ticket price.

    Thanks to you both again for your input.

    Tim

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Thanks Marc and David.

    I'd really appreciate some controlled tests comparing the H4D-31 and H4D-40 through the ISO range in contrasty light. If Hasselblad are prepared to do this themselves I'd be really, really impressed. The new H4D-31 is at a price that is seriously attractive to me but I wonder if I should push for the more expensive 40. The differences in resolution would probably almost be unnoticeable for me as I only print up to 20 x 25", but I wonder if I'd notice a difference in DR and noise between 100ISO and 400ISO that would justify the extra ticket price.

    Thanks to you both again for your input.

    Tim
    Those are very good questions Tim. With a 20" X 25" print I'd say the difference would be more apparent to the viewing eye in the higher ISO range than at 100 and 200 ... specifically 400, 800 and 1600. More specifically 800, which is really a threshold I try not to breach even with high-end 35 mm DSLRs, like the Sony A900 and Nikon D3X I've used.

    In my experience, the real world translation of the incremental gains you get with evolutionary sensor unit development (Hasselbald or any other DB) is "forgiveness". The newer backs are a little more forgiving of slight exposure errors at all ISOs ... especially noticeable to the eye in the shadow areas and over-all color. You can push around the 40 file in post a little more than the 31. If I recall correctly, Guy Mancuso has said something similar about his P40+ compared to his previous P30+.

    That said, I LOVED my H3D-II/31 and did paying jobs that were enlarged to 6' or 8' for lobby displays and trade-show booth mounted prints that were viewed pretty close up.
    Which revealed another advantage of MFD over 35mm DSLRs ... the files definitely interpolate up-res better when using programs like Genuine Fractals ... or even just PS for that matter.

    "No other manufacturer has published such a test."

    As a former advertising guy, I'd think there is probably a good reason they have not ... usually comparison efforts are competitive marketing to sell one maker's digital back over another... or more commonly, MFD over 35mm DSLRs. I would think publishing definitive tests showing a comparison of maker's line of backs could be disheartening to those who can't afford a H4D/40 over the new entry level H4D/31. Just an opinion, and Hasselbald may think differently. But man, that would be a lot of work to really do it right ... I've not seen many such comparisons that weren't lightening rods for criticism of the test methods employed matter who was doing the comparison

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    I agree that stat of the art MFDBs from all vendors show a very forgiving behavior when it comes to exposure. And they are usually better at higher ISOs compared to older backs.

    It is also true that ALL DSLRs which are operated above ISO 800 show lot of artefacts and loose considerably in terms of resolution and micro details. This is because of the (internal) noise correction SW applied. So end of the day, no matter what all these vendors claim, ISO 800 or ISO 1600 are the limit if one is really looking for highest IQ.

    I am still very pleased with my H3D39, with a sensor technology at least 4 years old. Up till ISO 400 it delivers exceptional results and it gives much more freedom to process the resulting image around in post - my standard here PSCS4.

    WRT H4D31 I would not hesitate to get one if I want higher resolution and the advantage of a larger sensor - I am sure the prices are more than competitive compared to high end DSLRs and the resulting IQ will be definitely superior.

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Thanks again guys.
    When it comes to MFD, I'm certainly one of those annoying people who keep asking questions. I've grown up with film and I'm only just convinced of the quality and versatility of digital with relation to the types of work I like to do - mostly what I would loosely term documentary, fine art as well as environmental portraiture. I always loved using 6x7 film and, better still, 4x5". I currently shoot primarily with a Mamiya 7 system, a Nikon D700 kit and, occasionally a 4x5" Horseman 45FA. My perfect MFD kit would be paired with 50mm, 65mm and 80mm 6x7 equivalent FOV lenses. I like working on a tripod so the handling of the H would not be a problem. In fact, I'd prefer an SLR design to my Mamiya 7.

    If anyone out there could spare some raw files from the H3DII-31 and / or the H4D-40 I'd be eternally grateful. I'd be particularly interested in images taken in natural light, of high dynamic range.

    For some reason I've never considered the H3DII-39. Should I?

    Thanks in advance,

    Tim

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Keep asking questions what this forum is about.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post

    I'd be particularly interested in images taken in natural light, of high dynamic range.

    For some reason I've never considered the H3DII-39. Should I?
    Older chip that, you will be told, has poor high ISO characteristics but in the newest versions of Phocus demonstrates all of the characteristics of Hasselblad true color good dynamic range and excellent contrast. Without microlenses it handles technical cameras fairly well but does demonstrate moderate lens cast with the very wide angle lenses.

    With attention to exposure one can find a few captures that may be acceptable to you...although almost any capture has difficulty in these days of the ultra critical pixel peeping crowds.

    Here are a couple of older files I had sitting in my albums here:

    H3D II 39 80HC with extension tube:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1041

    Same 80HC extension tube combination:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1040

    H3D II 39 HC 50-110 Inside ISO 400:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1119

    H3D II 39 HC210 ISO 50 Outside:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1123

    H3D II 39 HC210 ISO 50 Outside WB a little off:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1121

    H3D II 39 HC 50-110 ISO 800:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1120

    Bob

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request


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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    The following are a few H3D II 39 / Alpa TC Apo Grandagon 45 (NOW Alpa Apo Alpar 45/4.5)


    This lens body back combination is a favorite of mine...natural perspective, great color and contrast...very small...like your Mamiya 7II.


    Flower with no Lens Cast Correction ( Pink to Green cast mild but visible )

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1339

    Rail with Vignette and Silver Efex conversion

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1343

    Old Barn

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1338

    Morning Path

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1342

    Tree

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1344

    Fountain

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1341

    Cove

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1340

    Rail Bridge

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/album....pictureid=1345

    Sorry for the run on.

    Bob

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    Re: Hasselblad H4D / H3D 31 and H4D 40 request

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I'd really appreciate some controlled tests comparing the H4D-31 and H4D-40 through the ISO range in contrasty light.
    if i may chime in:
    + controlled tests showing the results of something like 15, 30, 45 seconds exposure time.

    --chris

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