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Hasselblad system - need your advice

fotografz

Well-known member
Maybe I should ask this from a different perspective:

What would be the best setup if you want to shoot both film and digital (MF of course)?

I would like to gather as much information I can. This way, when I go to PhotoPlus I can take a closer look at the systems available.

All the information so far it's been very valuable and I appreciate it.

Valentin
This is wholly dependent on your creative intent, style of shooting, and perhaps more importantly ... budget.

As soon as you add digital to the equation, budgets like $1,900. go out the window. This forum section's theme: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here" is mostly because of digital equipment, not Medium Format gear.

When shooting with a V system, I LOVED the CFV line of digital backs. The CFV is unique from all other digital backs you can use on a V camera because pesky sync cords are not necessary. The only draw back was the 1.5X crop factor ... which I personally never cared about since I rarely used super wide lenses. Unless you are printing beyond 30" X 30" the files hold up just fine. I usually printed at 17" square or 17" X 22" cropped. As many here will attest, there is a certain magical equation between the so called "Fat Pixel" CFV and the Zeiss V lenses. Now there are 39 and 50 meg versions of the CFV ... which has continued the support of the V system by Hasselblad.

You can read my initial CFV/16 reaction & see photos using this combination here on the Planet V section of the Hasselblad website:

http://www.hasselblad.com/planet-v/word/marc-a-williams.aspx

For other words and pics on Planet V go here:

http://www.hasselblad.com/planet-v/word.aspx

Note that I also used a V to shoot wedding work with, so they are not just relegated to static situations. I also shot a ton of film with one and scanned it on a Imacon 949 scanner. That work holds its own against the best digital backs because the look and qualities of film are different than digital.

But the ease and instant gratification of digital made me lazy, and for commercial work digital wasn't a luxury, it was a necessity ... so I surrendered to digital and eventually moved to 645 digital for the financial upkeep reasons I already mentioned.

Other possible ways to go:

Hasselblad V 200 series cameras ... these are focal plane type cameras that can use the faster aperture Zeiss FE lenses and with a simple modification can use a CFV digital back. Plus it can be used with all C, CF and CFE Zeiss leaf shutter lenses. It has the meter built in and can be used like a SLR with automation of exposure and shooting. (the 203FE was my favorite camera of all time, ever ... and I still miss it :().

The RZ mentioned is a viable option ... but it's no V IMO ... far less portability than a V. I know this because I also have a full RZ Pro-II system.

Any of the 645 camera systems that can shoot film and digital is a possibility ...

Hasselblad H1, H2 (which will take most any digital back), H2F (film back capable, takes Hassey CF and CFH type digital backs, and is different from the H1 and H2 in that it takes all the current digital lenses and accessories like the H/TS tilt-shift unit) ... the H2D/22/31/39 & H3D/22/31/39 (which all are digital already but also take H film backs).

Mamiya AFD, AFD-II, & D series focal plane cameras.

Contax 645, which is a discontinued line, but still very popular. You won't see this at PhotoPlus : -)

Digital backs are available for any of these. Older backs are reasonably priced but still not cheap. I'd avoid really old tech backs which are relatively limited in use, ISO ability, and meg count.

If a hobbyist, I'd personally spend the money on a decent scanner initially as way to get images into the digital domain. Frankly, for most applications up to 15" square prints from a V, I did pretty darned good scans from a $500. Epson V-750 Pro high-end flatbed and good 3rd party software like Silverfast.

A basic 503CW with 80/2.8 T* lens and 2 film backs coupled with a high-end flat bed won't suck your bank account dry, and provide a true introduction to MF with some digital ability ... then you can expand from there. Nothing will be a loss ... even the flatbed ... everyone should have a good flatbed anyway to scan prints with :thumbs:

-Marc
 

jlm

Workshop Member
maybe this will help; all these options would do film and digital:

503, 80mm, A12 film back, PME45 prism (has meter), CFV 16 (the 1.5 crop and only square blad back) this set could probably be found for $4-5k. I would only buy it from a guy like Marc or Son, e-bay is risky.

simiar, but a 203 or 205 body figure $5k. prism useful, but the 205 has a built in meter, focal plane shutter will take FE lenses (or C, CF, CFE lenses) I shot with one of these for a couple of years with both the CFV16 and CFV 39 and loved it. nothing else like the blad form factor.

the processing software for blad raw files is PHOCUS, available at no cost from hasselblad and works extremely well. Blad also makes firmware updates for the back available at no cost

once you depart from the CFV16(sq) back, with for instance the CFV-39, the above cameras would be shooting landscape mode rectangular and are a bit awkward to shoot in portrait mode, esp with the waist level finder.

H3D-31,39 with 80mm lens, prismfinder, film back: a rectangular 1.3 crop, 31 or 39 mpx blad back, auto focus, all shutters in the lens, figure $8-9K. better ergonomics for shooting portrait than the V series, built in grip

used H and C series lenses are easy to find and reasonably priced

newer cameras won't also shoot film (the H4D-40 with 80 lens is around $12k, for comparison)
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Check this out this is off of CI website but just for a idea of what is going on in the used area. The Mamiya AFD II will shoot film also


Mamiya 645 AFD II body $750
Mamiya AF 35mm f/3.5 Lens $999
Mamiya AF 45mm f/2.8 Lens $579
Mamiya AF 80mm f/2.8 Lens $199
Mamiya AF 150mm f/3.5 Lens $429
Mamiya AF ULD 210mm f/4.0 Lens $555

Phase One P21+ M (2800 shots) $4,900
Phase One AF 645 body (90 day warranty) $899

Phase One P30+ V (1700 shots) $9,500
Phase One P30+ M $8,990


Notice for the V a P30+ 9500
In a Mamiya mount 8990


Obviously this a guide on there pricing but these kinds of prices and products are out there. Also the AFDIII will shoot film also and a better cam but more like 1500 for one.

I do agree though if your going to go V do not buy the older stuff buy the latest they have . Repairs can eat you alive

Seriously if I want to get in Cheap go Mamiya AFD or Contax. Also look at the P25+ in either mounts. Great 22mpx back but hard to find now. To me if I am going to invest like this I would be after the latest system I could find and afford.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
If you look at this right here . You almost can't beat this setup for entry level and you have a whole system ready to shoot for less than 8k

Mamiya 645 AFD II body $750
Mamiya AF 35mm f/3.5 Lens $999
Mamiya AF 45mm f/2.8 Lens $579
Mamiya AF 80mm f/2.8 Lens $199
Mamiya AF 150mm f/3.5 Lens $429
Mamiya AF ULD 210mm f/4.0 Lens $555

Phase One P21+ M (2800 shots) $4,900

That back at that price is almost a great backup for myself.

The one thing here is you can upgrade the lenses , bodies and back as you grow the system. To me that is what counts is how I can take something like this and have a future in upgrade paths. Your very limited in Hassy as no new V are made and Contax the cycle is no longer made. To me it would be a H system or a Phase/Mamiya system as you can grow either one.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Now you most likely will see similar pricing on the Hassy V cam and lenses but non of them are AF if you need that.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
maybe this will help; all these options would do film and digital:

503, 80mm, A12 film back, PME45 prism (has meter), CFV 16 (the 1.5 crop and only square blad back) this set could probably be found for $4-5k. I would only buy it from a guy like Marc or Son, e-bay is risky.

simiar, but a 203 or 205 body figure $5k. prism useful, but the 205 has a built in meter, focal plane shutter will take FE lenses (or C, CF, CFE lenses) I shot with one of these for a couple of years with both the CFV16 and CFV 39 and loved it. nothing else like the blad form factor.

the processing software for blad raw files is PHOCUS, available at no cost from hasselblad and works extremely well. Blad also makes firmware updates for the back available at no cost

once you depart from the CFV16(sq) back, with for instance the CFV-39, the above cameras would be shooting landscape mode rectangular and are a bit awkward to shoot in portrait mode, esp with the waist level finder.

H3D-31,39 with 80mm lens, prismfinder, film back: a rectangular 1.3 crop, 31 or 39 mpx blad back, auto focus, all shutters in the lens, figure $8-9K. better ergonomics for shooting portrait than the V series, built in grip

used H and C series lenses are easy to find and reasonably priced

newer cameras won't also shoot film (the H4D-40 with 80 lens is around $12k, for comparison)
H4D/40 with 80mm lens for $12K ... where would that be available? Do you mean the recently announced entry level H4D/31?

-Marc
 

Valentin

New member
Thank you everybody. Really useful information.

I photograph events: weddings, mitzvahs, portraits ... I don't do landscapes or fashion work so the need for the latest and greatest is not there (I would love to, but it's not financially possible).

I currently shoot 35mm and it fits perfect my style of shooting. So, I don't plan on changing to MF only. If I would do that, than yes, I would look into all options and would be prepared to spend that kind of money.

My goal is to stay under or at about the $3k mark. If that means that I have to choose a system that's film only, so be it (although I would love to find something that can be used both with film and digital).

My goal with this move is to ADD something to what I'm offering now. Everybody shoots 35mm now (with very few exceptions) so I want to introduce something that other people don't offer. I can't justify spending $10k at this point. If what I am trying to do doesn't prove viable, I don't want to regret it and loose the money. As much as I would love a MF digital outfit, I can't afford to spend 10k or more in a whim.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
That is fine but fair warning and I mean this sincerely and everyone will say the same thing. Once you start shooting MF digital next to impossible to pick up that Canon again. LOL

The files just suck you in like a bad disease.

We did not name the subtitle of this forum for nothing. LOL
"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante)

It's a slippery slope
 

Valentin

New member
That is fine but fair warning and I mean this sincerely and everyone will say the same thing. Once you start shooting MF digital next to impossible to pick up that Canon again. LOL

The files just suck you in like a bad disease.

We did not name the subtitle of this forum for nothing. LOL
"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante)

It's a slippery slope
LOL ... I know. I love my 5dII files but I've seen the files from MF digital.
 
T

tetsrfun

Guest
If a hobbyist, I'd personally spend the money on a decent scanner initially as way to get images into the digital domain. Frankly, for most applications up to 15" square prints from a V, I did pretty darned good scans from a $500. Epson V-750 Pro high-end flatbed and good 3rd party software like Silverfast.
*********
I just put two rolls of Tri-X on reels and into a tank for the first time in about 30 years.

Steve
 

Valentin

New member
...
When shooting with a V system, I LOVED the CFV line of digital backs. The CFV is unique from all other digital backs you can use on a V camera because pesky sync cords are not necessary. The only draw back was the 1.5X crop factor ... which I personally never cared about since I rarely used super wide lenses...
-Marc
Marc,

Thank you for the detailed post. I have a question since I couldn't find it on their site: what format is the back when shot in full mode. It seems close to 645 format but not quite. It looks like it's somewhere in between 6x7 and 645 :)
 

Valentin

New member
Guy is right... they do suck you in. MFDB's that is.

You may have seen me chiming in on threads on DWF about medium format.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/symbolphotography/sets/72157624913368149/with/5024570231/

Stay away from the whole scene unless you plan to get sucked in. I thought i'd start a the cheapest point too, now i have a HC35-90 and plan to upgrade to the H4D very soon.
Ha ha ... I know ... trust me, the little "devil" on my right shoulder keeps whispering excuses to buy one :)
 

Valentin

New member
I would look at the Mamiya RZ II or IID for this. Cheaper and Mamiya is running a promotion at this time.

My head is about to explode. I've read so much about the different systems, pros, cons....

The above looks more and more appealing:

1. you can shoot film and digital
2. you can shoot multiple formats; this is a feature that I really like; 6x6, 6x7 and 6x4.5
3. cheaper than a Hasselblad system

You do loose the Zeiss lenses though.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
I built up a 503CW into a 503CWD system over the last year or two. I've got the 50 FLE, 80 and 150 lenses and a pair of backs. The CFV-16 is a really nice back and extends the life of the V system. The colors, dynamic range and general richness of the files are something else (compared to DSLRs). It's great being able to switch from a roll of Tri-X to 16-bit color in a few seconds. The modularity of the camera is a real benefit. I'll often switch between the WLF and PM5 (45º) prism as well. Another benefit is being able to throw in a combination of extension tubes for close (or macro) shooting... Something I really wish my Mamiya 7II did (3' is as close as it gets).

The images from film or digital, of course - give you all that MF goodness and the rig is a blast to shoot.
 
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