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Thread: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

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    H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Hello,

    Im new in the forum.
    Actually Im working with a Leaf Aptus 75s-Back attached to
    * RZ67 (which I still like)
    * Mamiya 645AFDII (which I dislike for touch/feel/hear)
    * Alpa Max (love)
    I know about the DF (I tried it) and the comparision to the H-Bodies.
    Now Im thinking about cross-trading to H3/4D50.
    The images-quality attached to the H-Body will be outstanding (will meen - better then my clients realize ;-), the same with the DF and an A10.

    But what is important for me is how the H3/4D50-performance is attached to a Tech-Camera.
    Some people say, the Kodak-Sensor is more sensible to colour-cast then the dalsa is.
    I will check it out for myself as soon as I will find some spare time and an H-Adapter to try it with my ALPA ( I want to test it with my lenses) and I will keep you informed.
    But it would be great to get feedback of some peers already working with that combination.
    Main issues:
    * wake up ... necessary or not?
    * colour cast ... is a gain file already necessary with an unshifted camera?
    * other pros / cons?

    Last week I did a shooting with a rented Aptus 10 attached to the Alpa and it was almost always necessary to shoot Gain-Files ... it seems more sensitive then the A75s.

    Thank you for your comments

    Klaus

  2. #2
    yossarians22
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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Apparently the H4D60 back will have an option to take a battery itself which is a first for the H backs, something you may want to keep in mind when considering Hasselblad for tech camera use.

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Keep in mind the sensor of the Aptus-II 10 (or 65+ or H4D60) is larger so you are seeing more of the image circle of any given lens. The center of the image circle is the only place where it's not "necessary" to use a gain file, but to be frank I think you should use a gain file on every exposure on a tech camera regardless of what digital back you have.

    Have you seen Capture One's tool for Lens Cast Correction (aka "gain file)?? If you've been using Leaf Capture it's really worth your time to download a trial of Capture One. The math for LCC and the workflow options that come along with it are stellar. It's so useful in fact they just (in 5.2) introduced the option to use it with dSLRs. It corrects:
    1) color shift
    2) vignetting/fall-off
    3) dust!

    You can dial the amount of light-fall-off correction up or down and the dust removal is great.

    With a Leaf or Phase back you'll be able to power the back from an on-board battery. Apparently the H4D-60 has some new means for this - though I haven't seen it, but the previous Hassy backs would require an external source of power which you could ping David Grover on.

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Thank you very much for your replies. Very helpful!
    I'm working with C1 since 10 months, as international Assistants are familiar with it.
    I will try some combinations and then let you know about my final decision.

    Klaus

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by tatibcn View Post
    Thank you very much for your replies. Very helpful!
    I'm working with C1 since 10 months, as international Assistants are familiar with it.
    I will try some combinations and then let you know about my final decision.

    Klaus
    Klaus hi, if you want to use the LCC function in C1 with you A75s files (from a CF card) make sure that you set the back to shoot compressed (lossless).
    You can remove colour cast, dust spots and have good control for light falloff.

    I know several photographers who use a similar combo to yours who have tried competitive products and have chosen to stay with their Leaf backs.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    To use the integrated H system backs from a H3D-II/50 or H4/50 on a mobile tech field-camera requires external power source because the grip battery on those cameras also powers the back (one button start-up) ... the one provided by Hasselblad is the Image Bank-II which is a partitioned FW-800 100 Gig HD that take a common Sony Lith Camcorder battery available in various capacities. The Image Bank-II can be used in conjunction with the CF card capture for redundant back-up when shooting on location.

    When I shoot that way, which isn't often since acquiring the HTS/1.5 for my H2F and H4, I keep this small Image Bank-II in my pocket which keeps it warm in cold weather. Otherwise it is clamped to the tripod.

    The Hasselblad CF and CF-II, CF/Multi-shot and CF-II/Multi-shot type backs take a clip-on Sony Lith battery (same as used on the Image Bank-II) ... and can be used on the current Hassey H2F camera, or any other MF camera, view camera or field tech camera (without the Image Bank-II) by swapping iAdapters. The Image Bank-II can also be used with the H2F for redundant back-up of CF capture on this camera. To date, CFs have been available up to 39 and 39/MS versions, and Hassy has not made it clear whether a 50 or 50/MS version will be forthcoming ... although the recently announced CFV/50 leads me to believe it may be possible in future.

    -Marc

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Thanks again ... Yair, it was great meeting you at the Photokina ... regrettably I was there with very little time. More soon

    Klaus

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    I am surprised that Hasselblad people have NOT reply yet ... Do test the H'Blad DB on Alpa/Cambo/Sinar-arTec with manual copal 0 shutter! Do test the shutter above 1/30th to 1/500th and especially use LCC Scene Cal (Phocus) and compare it to C1 LCC process (of course using Leaf/P1 DB). You will be amazed as to what you are about to discover.

    Hint: with H'Blad DB, you "may" need a "wake up" cable unless H'Blad has rewritten the timing files.

    Good luck...

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by rhsu View Post
    I am surprised that Hasselblad people have NOT reply yet ... Do test the H'Blad DB on Alpa/Cambo/Sinar-arTec with manual copal 0 shutter! Do test the shutter above 1/30th to 1/500th and especially use LCC Scene Cal (Phocus) and compare it to C1 LCC process (of course using Leaf/P1 DB). You will be amazed as to what you are about to discover.

    Hint: with H'Blad DB, you "may" need a "wake up" cable unless H'Blad has rewritten the timing files.

    Good luck...
    Given that probably less than half a dozen members of the forum will have access to both a tech camera, a phase back, and a HB back at the same time you could just let us know what you found .

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by rhsu View Post
    I am surprised that Hasselblad people have NOT reply yet ... Do test the H'Blad DB on Alpa/Cambo/Sinar-arTec with manual copal 0 shutter! Do test the shutter above 1/30th to 1/500th and especially use LCC Scene Cal (Phocus) and compare it to C1 LCC process (of course using Leaf/P1 DB). You will be amazed as to what you are about to discover.

    Hint: with H'Blad DB, you "may" need a "wake up" cable unless H'Blad has rewritten the timing files.

    Good luck...
    Richard,

    The scene calibration to correct for any lens fall off or colour cast is extremely competent in Phocus and can be applied as a batch correction if you are not shooting tethered, as long as you save a reference shot on CF card.

    You may need a wake up cable and this is not secret information from us as I have said many times before, so I see no reason for your manner.

    It also does not concern any error in the timing files.

    Hasselblad backs always run on a "continuous flush" method mostly thereby negating the need for a wake up cable. However in some instances the timing of the copal shutter is simply not compatible with the timing of the CCD and then a wake up cable is needed.

    It varies from shutter to shutter as well.

    I understand with the P65 you can operate it in a mode that does not require a wake up cable, but have seen on this forum that is often not recommended if you are doing a lot of captures due to heat build up. Therefore you will still need to use a wake up cable?

    David

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Given that probably less than half a dozen members of the forum will have access to both a tech camera, a phase back, and a HB back at the same time you could just let us know what you found .
    Very good point and thanks for the invitation. I tend to find instructive hints and pointeres more conclusive. As you and I know, what tests done few weeks ago may not be relvant today withthe frightening pace of technological improvements.

    Secondly, I only reply to "flush out" HB reps. We all know that I tend to do that extremely well.

    I believe Kyle will have access to both P1/Leaf and HB Dbs. Shame that people back home in US/Canada cannot readily get access to a n arTec so to compare decisively (?) against Alpa and Cambo etc... in terms of compact WA app tech camera goes.

    We all have different work flow and mine seems to work well with P1, Leaf and Sinar (no particular orders) - just pitching to the bias here on this forum. Those DBs seem to all work extremely will with ALL copal 0 mounted Rodenstock and Schneider lenses, esp in continuous lighting condition (cf studio lighting strobe...). No strict mandatory instruction needed to make it work.

    C1 and Sinar apps works extremely well too. IMHO, I prefer C1.

    Of course, I have been questioned and berted for the need of a dumb perspex to get LCC by a supplier and several pro-photographers (funny they use the same brand DBs). So my point here is this, we have different workflow and secondly, it is not the msg but the msger!

    BTW: I discovered accidently that P45+able to pick up the copal speed settings on the lens - all lenses - on a tech camera (as you know, there is no communication between the tech camera and the DB). The shutter speed would show up on the preview and in the metadata. I thought that was cool!


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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Richard,

    The scene calibration to correct for any lens fall off or colour cast is extremely competent in Phocus and can be applied as a batch correction if you are not shooting tethered, as long as you save a reference shot on CF card.

    You may need a wake up cable and this is not secret information from us as I have said many times before, so I see no reason for your manner.

    It also does not concern any error in the timing files .... (i.e., blah, blah, blah)

    David
    David, you are a really nice guy, and an asset to this forum ... but you really need to stop falling for the "Heckle and Jeckle" Vaudeville routine

    I say Heckel have you tried comparing that piece of dung DB on a ... sniff, sniff, Technododorama camera with DunderFurer Super-Snooper lenses?"

    Why no Jeckel I have not had the sublime pleasure as of yet, do tell ...

    Indubitably my dear Heckle, my findings are unquestionable amongst the questioning ...




    -Marc

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    Re: H3/4D50 on Tech-Camera

    Lol. Thanks Marc.

    Sometimes I can't help myself

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