Mamiya 645 AFD II and leaf shutter lenses

[Valentin]

Hi,

It's me again .

If you followed my other thread, you probably know that I decided to go with the Mamiya system. This is a focal plane camera (as you know), but there are LS lenses available for it.

I've been scouting the internet to see if using these lenses will give you the high speed sync capability (1/500) for flash. From my understanding it is possible but I want to check in with the specialists here.

The manual for the AFD II doesn't mention anything about this and I don't know if this is a feature available for the DF only body or not.

If anybody that is familiar with this could confirm/deny this, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,
Valentin

 

[SergeiR]

You can easily use old leaf shutter ones with any of AFD series.
New ones - i am not sure - dont really care for now.

Old ones actually are very good, but you will need to have 2 release cables or just a single double release cable. Simplest trick is to use 2, you just basically set up shutter speed on camera to be fairly slow in comparition to leaf shutter, and then whatever you feel like or need on the lens.

I got N-L/S lenses from old manual days, and use them like that.

Of course FUNNY part is how you wind them up Thats where it gets TRICKY.

There is dead easy way to adapt it - you basically unscrew one of wee bolts on the bottom of the lens so it would stop release to go all the way, and then you can cock up shutter on lens by simply rotating front ring, without having to disconnect lens from body every time

Then again - may be there is easier way and i just overlooked it, as i had no one to consult with at the time. But it works for me like a magic for almost a year now.

 

[Valentin]

Thanks Sergei.

What I'm interested in is that if I get the high speed sync when using LS lenses.

The DF body seems that it does, but I couldn't find anything about the AFDII body. While they look the same, it could be something internally/software that would allow the DF to sync at up to 1/500 but not the AFD.

 

[H3dtogo]

How is one going to trigger the leaf shutter in the lens when not mounted to a tripod and using the special trigger modus on the lens? There are no mechanical parts in the DF or AFD that can set the lensshutter to go off.

 

[dougpeterson]

Maybe next time instead of scouring the internet you just give us a quick call eh?

The Phase One AF is not compatible with the new LS lenses. It is compatible with the old LS lenses but without fast flash sync (the leaf shutter in the lens is ignored and stays open and is used just like any other classic mamiya lens - manual stop down / manual focus with focus confirmation). As described above you can sort of "hack" your way into high flash sync with one of these older lenses but the method is not conducive to most shooting.

The Phase One DF is the only modern Mamiya/Phase system which can sync with flash at high shutter speeds (beyond 1/125th). It is however the fastest studio flash sync available from anyone in any form - 1/1600th when used with a P40+ or P65+.

For a while they discussed going backward and doing the R+D needed to add this compatibility to the AF but given the time that has lapsed I would say should be considered a non-starter (such R+D is rarely officially "ended" or "abandoned" but you can get a sense when it has drifted too far away to expect resolution). This is tough for me because I like to see as much forward and backward compatibility as possible and in general Phase One and Mamiya have done a great job on that: with very few exceptions any Mamiya lens made anytime in the last few decades can be used on any of the Mamiya/Phase-One bodies. This new breed of LS lenses however apparently required some new electronics that had to be added to the body to make them work well and so simply cannot be easily ported backwards. While I'm very enthusiastic about forward/backward compatibility there is also the issue of dedicating so much R+D to make backwards compatibility work and forgetting to forge ahead - there is some balance to be struck there.

Bottom line I'll be happy (as a provider of solutions) so long as any break in compatibility occurs for technical reasons (like a new type, not just generation, of lenses requires new body design) rather than marketing reasons (e.g. issuing an "update" to a body which contains virtually no improvements but prevents 3rd party manufacturers from interfacing with the body).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

 

[SergeiR]

Thanks Sergei.

What I'm interested in is that if I get the high speed sync when using LS lenses.

The DF body seems that it does, but I couldn't find anything about the AFDII body. While they look the same, it could be something internally/software that would allow the DF to sync at up to 1/500 but not the AFD.

Described above is how i sync at 1/500 on any of AFD bodies, using old leaf shutter lenses, but ok

 

[SergeiR]

The Phase One DF is the only modern Mamiya/Phase system which can sync with flash at high shutter speeds (beyond 1/125th).

Actually RZ33 can do that faster

 

[Valentin]

Described above is how i sync at 1/500 on any of AFD bodies, using old leaf shutter lenses, but ok

Thanks. It wasn't clear (to me ) if you were talking about just using an old LS lens or actually high speed sync.

 

[Valentin]

Maybe next time instead of scouring the internet you just give us a quick call eh? ...

Thanks Doug. Next time I'll do (or email you). You guys provide great customer service (Dave was very prompt and helpful with the AFDII).

It would have been nice, but I understand their reasoning.

Since I have your attention , I have another question in regard to lenses. I am looking to get a portrait lens. Which one is a better performer (quality) between the 150mm 3.5 and the 210 f4 ULD?

Thanks,
Valentin

 

[SergeiR]

Thanks. It wasn't clear (to me ) if you were talking about just using an old LS lens or actually high speed sync.

Oh sorry. You can use them in regular mode just as any other MF lens.

But if you want to do leaf shutter - just got to use shutter settings on lens, figure out hot to cock up shutter, and get cable releases and off it goes. It wont fire from camera, of course, thats why you need cable release. Sync port is on lens.

New ones - you fresh out of luck with AFDII body, just as Doug mentioned.

--

For portrait lens, even though it wasnt directed at me - it totally depends on your personal shooting style + type of back you shooting with (crop factor will affect this quite a lot).

Personally, after playing with AF 150mm i just put it into cupboard (actually need to get rid of it, unless my brother would want it) and replaced it with 150 APO MF version. Gives me one more stop for brighter focusing.

210 is just a bit too long for my personal taste. But many people love it .

 

[Valentin]

--

For portrait lens, even though it wasnt directed at me - it totally depends on your personal shooting style + type of back you shooting with (crop factor will affect this quite a lot).

Personally, after playing with AF 150mm i just put it into cupboard (actually need to get rid of it, unless my brother would want it) and replaced it with 150 APO MF version. Gives me one more stop for brighter focusing.

210 is just a bit too long for my personal taste. But many people love it .

As of now, I'll be using it with film so it will be full frame. Both would fit with my shooting style (I shoot 90mm to 150mm for most of my portraits on 35mm system). I will be getting a digital back down the road and most likely it will be cropped. From what I saw, usually, the crop factor is 1.1 or 1.3 which is not too drastic. Most of the time I will be using it outdoors so I anticipate to have room to move back.

In terms of quality, are they comparable or one is better than the other? I saw that the 210 has internal focusing which I really like (don't know about the 150).

Thanks again for your input.

 

[dougpeterson]

Actually RZ33 can do that faster

Doh! How could I forget the RZ??? I was thinking/meaning modern "645" body but didn't say so and so was just completely wrong!

RZ provides 1/400th sync with every lens.

Thanks!

 

[SergeiR]

well if you used to 90-150 range, then you definetly would want to go with longer than 150mm on 645 Its roughly 85mm in 135mm.

ULD glass on 210 is a bit better imho, but here is the catch ) Some people look at the chromatic abberations that it corrects as soft-improvement for the portraits Specially will be noticeable when you switch to digital - b/c digital is oversharpen to start from. Me - i just like more punch in portraits and rarely shoot truly soft stuff.

Which is another option for you, actually - 180mm . Unless you totally want to be AF-ed.

But again - its all very personal. You may find with med. format that your preferences for shooting do change quite a lot

this is 150mm/2.8 APO + AFDIII + Leaf (no portraiture or any other funky softening plugins afaik.. i rarely use them nowdays).

One of advantages of using med. format is that you cant get in closer and personal Thats why i dont really like longer lenses - too much compression and you have to work from far corner of studio / room/ street

 

[dougpeterson]

Since I have your attention , I have another question in regard to lenses. I am looking to get a portrait lens. Which one is a better performer (quality) between the 150mm 3.5 and the 210 f4 ULD?

My gut feeling is to go for the 210 f/4 since there is a new version of the 150 (the 150D/2.8) that at some point you may work into the budget to pick up, and if you start with the 210 you can add the 150D/2.8 without (much) overlap.

That said, if you're going for shooting without strobe/flash you may want to go with the 150 if nothing else because the extra fraction of a stop and 25% shorter focal length makes it a (slightly) more hand holdable lens.

Of course if you can somehow reach for a 150D/2.8 you should know that this new lens is really really good. Just saying .



Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

 

[SergeiR]

Doh! How could I forget the RZ??? I was thinking/meaning modern "645" body but didn't say so and so was just completely wrong!

RZ provides 1/400th sync with every lens.

Thanks!

))

yeah in 645 world i'd be happy to trade in all 3 of my AFD bodies for just one new one to be able sometime to use new LS lenses.. but oh well Looks like i am travelling towards RZ instead

 

[Valentin]

...

this is 150mm/2.8 APO + AFDIII + Leaf (no portraiture or any other funky softening plugins afaik.. i rarely use them nowdays).

....

...there is a new version of the 150 (the 150D/2.8) that at some point you may work into the budget to pick up, and if you start with the 210 you can add the 150D/2.8 without (much) overlap....

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

Thanks to both of you.

Sergei, is this the same lens Doug is talking about?

 

[SergeiR]

Nope. Mine is old MF one. I just prefer to use MF lenses (altough i tried AF versions) . Just like feel better (less plasticy, built-in hoods and all that), and i dont really care for AF that much.

 

[Arjuna]

AFAIK, from Jack's Mamiya lens overview, there is no 150 mm f2.8 APO lens, but there is an older, manual, 200 mm f2.8 APO lens. Perhaps this is what Sergei has?

 

[SergeiR]

AFAIK, from Jack's Mamiya lens overview, there is no 150 mm f2.8 APO lens, but there is an older, manual, 200 mm f2.8 APO lens. Perhaps this is what Sergei has?

I wouldnt shoot with 200mm.. Too long for my style
Its MF 150mm/A. One you thinking about is IF-D

My mistake - i thought it read APO somewhere on case, oh well (actually reviews keep comparing its performance with 300mm APO, guess thats why). Still like it

Bugger.. you made me to go and look on lenses.. I tried to hard to not buy 50/4 for RZ for another month... Grrrrr...(ordered)

 

[Valentin]

Nope. Mine is old MF one. I just prefer to use MF lenses (altough i tried AF versions) . Just like feel better (less plasticy, built-in hoods and all that), and i dont really care for AF that much.

Thanks. I wasn't sure since both are 2.8