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Thread: Phocus color calibration

  1. #1
    jorisvm
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    Phocus color calibration

    hi,
    for the people using the Phocus software,
    - which gray card do you use ?
    - how do you perform your color correction in Phocus ?
    thx,
    joris

  2. #2
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Any good-quality gray card (from a photo supply store) should work fine.

    In the toolbar below the image there's a tool that looks like a pencil, just to the left of the Zoom Tool. It's called the "Neutralization Tool". Click on it, then put the cursor on the gray card and click. That' it.

    - Leigh

  3. #3
    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    I used the Colorite Passport. Works great.

    Also, Phocus has the tool for neutral.

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    I have color-checker and gray cards from Xrite, doing the job perfectly.
    Was thinking to get that Passport one, but as long i have 2 color checker cards [one standard and one min size] i think no need for more same card job.
    Tareq

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    Thumbs up Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    I have color-checker and gray cards from Xrite, doing the job perfectly.
    Yep, that's the brand I use.

    Used to be MacBeth. I couldn't remember the new name.

    - Leigh

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    Yep, that's the brand I use.

    Used to be MacBeth. I couldn't remember the new name.

    - Leigh
    No new name, just ColorChecker from Xrite [Munsell color] instead of MacBeth.
    Tareq

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    Smile Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    No new name, just ColorChecker from Xrite [Munsell color] instead of MacBeth.
    OK. To clarify, from the ColorChecker brochure (at the very end):

    "The ColorChecker product family is produced by the the Munsell Color services laboratory of GretagMacbeth."

    Brochure PDF on the xrite website http://www.xrite.com/documents/liter...rochure_en.pdf

    - Leigh

  8. #8
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    I use X-rite as well. A more fundamental question is how to proceed in Phocus.

    Are you going for the canned profile or are you using reproduction mode? The canned profile is decent looking but not linear and not correct. Shoot the color card, neutralize and you will notice their has been some S-curve applied. Blacks are more dense and whites are compressed. Correcting colors based on the color card will be fairly hard and fairly often end up messy.

    The canned profile is good if you want to have pretty and merely neutralize what you believe to be neutral.

    Now, if you want accurate colors and you go linear with reproduction mode it will be another story. It is easier to get not only the right things neutral but also the right values for the blacks, greys up until the whites and adjust the colors until what they should be.

    BTW, most clients dislike the actual result of setting correct colors! They often find it too flat and not flattering. There is a discrepancy between what is correct and what is perceived to be correct.

    Fortunately most people merely want to have pretty colors... in which case you should leave reproduction off, neutralize and be done with it (in most cases).

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    I use X-rite as well. A more fundamental question is how to proceed in Phocus.

    Are you going for the canned profile or are you using reproduction mode? The canned profile is decent looking but not linear and not correct. Shoot the color card, neutralize and you will notice their has been some S-curve applied. Blacks are more dense and whites are compressed. Correcting colors based on the color card will be fairly hard and fairly often end up messy.

    The canned profile is good if you want to have pretty and merely neutralize what you believe to be neutral.

    Now, if you want accurate colors and you go linear with reproduction mode it will be another story. It is easier to get not only the right things neutral but also the right values for the blacks, greys up until the whites and adjust the colors until what they should be.

    BTW, most clients dislike the actual result of setting correct colors! They often find it too flat and not flattering. There is a discrepancy between what is correct and what is perceived to be correct.

    Fortunately most people merely want to have pretty colors... in which case you should leave reproduction off, neutralize and be done with it (in most cases).
    I hope if you can show by pics samples of what you mean, i am not sure if what i use is linear or canned, but the profile i get is accurate enough and happy with the results i get with it, if there is something more to do or do different process then i will be happy to know.
    Tareq

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    In that case I am pretty sure you use the canned one. If you use repro you would definitely have noticed it

    examples:
    Canned
    http://www.pepperanddust.com/images/canned.png
    Repro/linear
    http://www.pepperanddust.com/images/repro.png

    The 'canned' one is pretty good but you leave some things in the hands of Hasselblad to determine for you.

    If you want total control yourself you put it in repro and you adjust to what is accurate or what is pleasing to you by yourself in either Phocus or PS.

    I rarely bother going that route maybe when doing the occassional repro job where someone wants accurate over pleasing. Or when showing a stubborn client what accurate means and having him determine what HE prefers (in most cases they go for pleasing). Apparently the 'current taste' is much more contrasty than actuality.
    Last edited by Dustbak; 20th October 2010 at 03:01.

  11. #11
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    In that case I am pretty sure you use the canned one. If you use repro you would definitely have noticed it

    examples:
    Canned
    http://www.pepperanddust.com/images/canned.png
    Repro/linear
    http://www.pepperanddust.com/images/repro.png

    The 'canned' one is pretty good but you leave some things in the hands of Hasselblad to determine for you.

    If you want total control yourself you put it in repro and you adjust to what is accurate or what is pleasing to you by yourself in either Phocus or PS.

    I rarely bother going that route maybe when doing the occassional repro job where someone wants accurate over pleasing. Or when showing a stubborn client what accurate means and having him determine what HE prefers (in most cases they go for pleasing). Apparently the 'current taste' is much more contrasty than actuality.
    Alright, got it, thanks!
    Tareq

  12. #12
    stewpid
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Dustbak, I was interested to read your comments on the repro mode. About a month ago I made my own profiles with repro as a starting point. I simply adjusted all the settings, any adjustment can be included, as I wanted them then saved it - actually, them. I have "my 50iso", "my 200iso" etc. It's really easy to do and I much prefer the results. I find the standard Hass profile blocks up the shadows too much. I strongly recommend people to try their own profiles.

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    You are definitely right about the shadows getting compressed heavily in the standard mode.

    You have chosen to take the matter totally in your own hands which is good. I have custom profiles as well for specific tasks and for some I use the canned profile.

    There were times you could buy profiles from people for specific uses (I bought them for Leaf Capture at that time, to get to specific skin tones) but I have not seen this lately.

  14. #14
    jorisvm
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    is there info when Phocus 2.6 will be available, more detailed than Q4-2010 ?

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    i saw a david grover interview where he said end of October for 2.6, but later for the ipad app

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    You are definitely right about the shadows getting compressed heavily in the standard mode.

    You have chosen to take the matter totally in your own hands which is good. I have custom profiles as well for specific tasks and for some I use the canned profile.

    There were times you could buy profiles from people for specific uses (I bought them for Leaf Capture at that time, to get to specific skin tones) but I have not seen this lately.
    Since Capture One added the Color Editor which allows you to create your own ICC profiles and programs like LightRoom have added pretty decent per-color modifications. I've seen the demand for 3rd party provided profiles go down.

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  17. #17
    Domip
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Hi Dustbak
    (is dat een bakske met stof??)

    I'm wondering for the moment about the same things: how to modify colors in phocus...

    For years I'm still working with Flexcolor because I can change each color patch from the ColorCheckercard to my wishes. In Flexcolor you can adapt through the color channels, in Phocus it's very hard or even undoable.

    I'm looking for the Fotokina to find my answers, but if you have found a good (say perfect) solution for profiling your Hassy to the CCCard, please let me know...

    Best regards, Dominique

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    I use X-rite as well. A more fundamental question is how to proceed in Phocus.

    Are you going for the canned profile or are you using reproduction mode? The canned profile is decent looking but not linear and not correct. Shoot the color card, neutralize and you will notice their has been some S-curve applied. Blacks are more dense and whites are compressed. Correcting colors based on the color card will be fairly hard and fairly often end up messy.

    The canned profile is good if you want to have pretty and merely neutralize what you believe to be neutral.

    Now, if you want accurate colors and you go linear with reproduction mode it will be another story. It is easier to get not only the right things neutral but also the right values for the blacks, greys up until the whites and adjust the colors until what they should be.

    BTW, most clients dislike the actual result of setting correct colors! They often find it too flat and not flattering. There is a discrepancy between what is correct and what is perceived to be correct.

    Fortunately most people merely want to have pretty colors... in which case you should leave reproduction off, neutralize and be done with it (in most cases).

  18. #18
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Use Xrite Colorchecker with a few added features or use Basiccolor's nifty plastic card that can be cut into a few sections and shoved in several bags/cases for ready use and can be washed too!
    basICColor Gray Card - Neutral, Metamerism Free Standard for White Balancing | basICColor GmbH

  19. #19
    Super Duper
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Domip View Post
    Hi Dustbak
    (is dat een bakske met stof??)

    I'm wondering for the moment about the same things: how to modify colors in phocus...

    For years I'm still working with Flexcolor because I can change each color patch from the ColorCheckercard to my wishes. In Flexcolor you can adapt through the color channels, in Phocus it's very hard or even undoable.

    I'm looking for the Fotokina to find my answers, but if you have found a good (say perfect) solution for profiling your Hassy to the CCCard, please let me know...

    Best regards, Dominique
    Hi Dominique

    Not specific to your question perhaps, but have you worked with the color wheel in Phocus?

    I find it the most precise CC tool of any software I've used when it comes to adjusting any specific color in an image. Just eye-dropper select the exact color you want to adjust and apply to taste. The attached example is a gross one to make the point obvious ... I clicked the overly yellow palm fonds and pulled the arrow toward green on the wheel ... but it did not effect the yellows in the reds.


    I also use it to neutralize any cast ... just click the neutral card and pull the arrow to the center of the wheel and it removes only that cast color and effects nothing else. One use I apply frequently is to neutralize any blue cast unbalanced color temps from strobes in mixed lighting.

    Again, forgive the exaggerated example ... it is just to demonstrate how specific this post tool can be. They loaded backwards ... the adjusted one has the white arrow pointing to the color wheel.

    -Marc

  20. #20
    Domip
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Thanks Fotograz,

    The solution you give me is good but not precise enough
    With this one can only approach it visually but not with numbers to obtain exact values one want.

    As seen in my attachment:
    -First set measure points on white, second gray,4th gray, black patch and the first color to measure (I start always with yellow)

    -second, in the Color Info-box you see the values you have at the moment (after neutralizing on second gray)

    - In Color Correction-box:
    I choose the channel to correct (this should have been Yellow, not Red, but it's just an example). With up/down arrows in the C,M,Y you can adjust until you get the 'right' values for that channel (until red is 230,green 195 and blue 62) in the ColorCorrection-box (see the 5th measure point)

    - repeat this for the six basic colors of ColorChecker... becomes a very tydious work if you've several cards to profile.


    As everiy one shoot paintings under diff lightings, every shoot starts with a new capture of the ColorChecker in front of the painting; once the card adjusted I copy the new settings on the next shot (painting without CCcard)...

    Very tedious !!

    But that kind of finesse I don't find in the color wheel of Phocus.

    Maybe someone...

  21. #21
    Super Duper
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Domip View Post
    Thanks Fotograz,

    The solution you give me is good but not precise enough
    With this one can only approach it visually but not with numbers to obtain exact values one want.

    As seen in my attachment:
    -First set measure points on white, second gray,4th gray, black patch and the first color to measure (I start always with yellow)

    -second, in the Color Info-box you see the values you have at the moment (after neutralizing on second gray)

    - In Color Correction-box:
    I choose the channel to correct (this should have been Yellow, not Red, but it's just an example). With up/down arrows in the C,M,Y you can adjust until you get the 'right' values for that channel (until red is 230,green 195 and blue 62) in the ColorCorrection-box (see the 5th measure point)

    - repeat this for the six basic colors of ColorChecker... becomes a very tydious work if you've several cards to profile.


    As everiy one shoot paintings under diff lightings, every shoot starts with a new capture of the ColorChecker in front of the painting; once the card adjusted I copy the new settings on the next shot (painting without CCcard)...

    Very tedious !!

    But that kind of finesse I don't find in the color wheel of Phocus.

    Maybe someone...
    Understood.

    I never thought about it, but is the color checker the right tool for CMYK adjustments? Or is it universal?

    Sounds like you need to start with a Multi-Shot file for better color separation and more faithful colors out of the starting gate?

    If you find a precise solution that's easier, please post it.

    -Marc

  22. #22
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Has anyone looked into this press release from Hasselblad?
    Hasselblad announces plan for a new era of Industry
    It's about a Phocus calibration guide that has been published.

    Frans Rutten

  23. #23
    Domip
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Has anyone looked into this press release from Hasselblad?
    Hasselblad announces plan for a new era of Industry
    It's about a Phocus calibration guide that has been published.

    Frans Rutten
    Yes, I did.
    This is a very good way to control colors, but it's very expensive... and also tedious.
    But finally Hasselblad does see there's a gap between 'real colors' and their Hasselblad Natural Color Solution (HNCS)
    Something to investigate further at the Photokina next month!

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    There is a video on Hasselblad TV how to use Datacolor SpyderCheckr Pro ($124.99) to create an H4D sensor profile for Phocus.
    Can anyone recommend that program?

    Evgeny

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeny View Post
    There is a video on Hasselblad TV how to use Datacolor SpyderCheckr Pro ($124.99) to create an H4D sensor profile for Phocus.
    Can anyone recommend that program?

    Evgeny
    Well, i have many gear, so i want to have test to do profiling my HB with ColorChecker Passport or any gray card ones i have, i got busy since years and didn't try to have time to do profiling and having accurate colors if possible, so i may start to go back to do more tests and see what i can get.
    Tareq

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Well, i have many gear, so i want to have test to do profiling my HB with ColorChecker Passport or any gray card ones i have, i got busy since years and didn't try to have time to do profiling and having accurate colors if possible, so i may start to go back to do more tests and see what i can get.
    The ColorChecker creates camera sensor profiles for ACR, not for Phocus.

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeny View Post
    The ColorChecker creates camera sensor profiles for ACR, not for Phocus.
    And what does that means?
    Tareq

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    And what does that means?
    The Phocus needs ICC camera profiles.
    The ColorChecker Passport cannot generate ICC profiles.

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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeny View Post
    The Phocus needs ICC camera profiles.
    The ColorChecker Passport cannot generate ICC profiles.
    And what can generate ICC profiles?
    Tareq

  30. #30
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    And what can generate ICC profiles?
    I already wrote in this thread

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/441239-post24.html

  31. #31
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    Re: Phocus color calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeny View Post
    Ok, thanks, i will have a look on that and see!!!
    Tareq

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