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Thread: Show Your High ISO MFD

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    Show Your High ISO MFD

    Lots of MFD shots posted here on GetDPI at base ISO or just above ... however, some of these cameras have made huge gains in the higher ISO department ... which makes them more and more versatile for other work also.

    One of the best I've used was a Leaf 75s which did a pretty darned good job at ISO 800. So was the H3D-II/31 @ ISO 800 with a passable 1600.

    Now I've been pushing the boundaries with my H4D/40 ... even to the point of cheating with an 1 stop ISO push past 1600 ... with results that frankly surprised me.

    Beyond improved sensor response, cooling, and new back technologies, I think part of that is also because post noise suppression programs have advanced a lot, as have noise suppression in RAW programs ... which, IMO has benefited MFD to a greater degree than 35mm DSLRs that already have aggressive in-camera filtration.

    Here's a shot from a recent trip to a Pennsylvania resort restaurant ... H4D/40 & HC35-90 @ 35/4 ... shot at ISO 1600, but really ISO equivalent 3200 ... or maybe a tad higher as "pushed" in post. The miracle part is the shutter speed @ 1/25th hand held. It printed to 11" X 14" quite nicely.... and encourages me to use the H4 more at weddings for available light work. On a mono-pod it should be even better.

    Post your high ISO if you have them ... love to see it.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Great thread idea Marc!!! And excellent first post for it too --- impressive really, as it shows just how good MF high ISO can be when downsized to match DSLR sensors.
    Jack
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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I have H4D-60 which goes up to ISO 800 only, even with my previous H3D-39 i was able to go up to iso 400 only and with firmware i can go up to ISO800, but i will tell you that ISO800 with H4D is way better even than ISO 200 on H3D2-39.

    *I will post something later
    Tareq

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Great thread idea Marc!!! And excellent first post for it too --- impressive really, as it shows just how good MF high ISO can be when downsized to match DSLR sensors.
    That is exactly the point Jack ... downsized to match DSLR sensors. I find that this H4D/40 will easily match my Sony A900 @ 1600 using similar post techniques, edge it out at 800, and cream it below 800 ... even comparing 17" X 22" prints.

    Recently I did a sample premium album that's 20" X 20" open ... and the Lab guys asked me what the Hell I had used to make some of the full 20" X 20" shots ... they were all cropped MFD ... they could pick out every one of them compared to D3X, 1DsMKIII and even Leica M9 shots in the album.

    Come-on folks ... let's see some shots even if posted before ... it'd be great to see them all in one place. Very curious to see some Phase sensor plus stuff. How is Leaf @ 800 now with improved post noise suppression?

    BTW, this thread has already triggered a number of private messages and e-mails from DSLR folks looking to move up, but have feared the lack of at least some ISO performance. Here's our chance to evangelize MFD and spread the gospel

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Marc, 1/25th hand held is more than impressive with MF. Don't you ever drink coffee

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Marc,

    Lautrec at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort?

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    This one was posted about 2 years ago. 800 iso under-exposed and pushed 2 stops (so essentially 3,200 or thereabout). Mixed industrial mercury lighting with daylight. Printed nicely at A1 size in B&W.
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Marc, 1/25th hand held is more than impressive with MF. Don't you ever drink coffee
    Actually David, Starbucks and Keurig Coffees are my two main food groups

    When told that I should cut back, I replied it was either lots of coffee ... or I'd go postal and be up on a bell tower with a scoped rifle and 1,000 rounds. They backed off the coffee reduction request.

    My photography shooting technique is to stop my heart ... which freaks out my Doctor when I demonstrate it to him. Getting it back going is the tricky part.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Marc,

    Lautrec at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort?

    David
    Yes, beautiful resort and pet friendly ... a requirement from the Wifey

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    When I first purchased my Phase One 645DF 40+ I did a quick snapshot sitting in my living room of what was on the coffee table......a bottle, my watch, and the corner of a black covered Lens Works magazine. This was handheld but I think I supported myself on the arm of a chair.....taken at ISO 3200, 80mm LS, F4, 30th of a sec. in tungsten room light at night. When you load the RAW file into Capture One 5.2.1 you can see alot of color noise but the software does a fantastic job of reducing this to a film grain quality that is very pleasing in the final image.....I was amazed at this quality in medium format at ISO 3200.....Tom.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Marc and Jack, what do you mean with "downsizing to DSLR"? ups my bad english...

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I guess there is hope for the MFDB and the usable high ISO

    These images look clean, a lot cleaner than I expected.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Rem, I think they were referencing the sensor plus feature like Phase 40+ and 65+ where the back is set to shoot at 10 megapixel (40+) or 15 megapixel(65+) in order to shoot higher 800 -3200 ISO... to be used when photographing similar pro SLR subjects / work......Tom.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by rem View Post
    Marc and Jack, what do you mean with "downsizing to DSLR"? ups my bad english...
    Meaning if you take a typical say 40-60 MP MFDB capture and then downsize by roughly 50% to match say a top-end 22-24 MP DSLR, the results are very similar if not superior to the native sized file in the DSLR.

    PS: Zone, Sensor Plus also belongs as part of the discussion, but not specifically what Marc and I were referring to as it is a PhaseOne-specific feature. I hope to post some examples of both later this week.
    Jack
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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Meaning if you take a typical say 40-60 MP MFDB capture and then downsize by roughly 50% to match say a top-end 22-24 MP DSLR, the results are very similar if not superior to the native sized file in the DSLR....
    I don't think that's a fair comparison. You will compress/loose noise by downsampling.

    A more fair comparison would be to compare a 100% crop from a DSLR with a 100% crop from a MFDB. This way, you are looking at the "native" output from the camera.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that MF can compete with SF on a per-pixel basis for high ISO noise performance.

    I believe Jack is suggesting that with the additional pixels that MF delivers, you don't have to pack it up when the situation calls for high ISO, but rather take advantage of those pixels to get good high ISO performance out of your back by averaging out the noise.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    ISO 3200, hand held, Phase One 645DF 40+, lens 80mm LS at F2.8, 6oth of a sec. (wild grape vine on Lake Champlain lake shore shale).

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    I don't think that's a fair comparison. You will compress/loose noise by downsampling.

    A more fair comparison would be to compare a 100% crop from a DSLR with a 100% crop from a MFDB. This way, you are looking at the "native" output from the camera.
    You don't print or display at 100%. You print or display at a given size (e.g. 30"x40" or 1000pixel wide). If the dSLR noise ends up larger physically than the medium format noise that is a major consideration.

    Unless your goal is to analyze numbers rather than pictures.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    shown before...here is one shot with H3D-39 (yes the version 1), so this is maxed out ISO at 800. Phocus did quite a good job...with HCD4/28. 4s exposure at f/16. Color rebalanced in CS4.


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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Sorry if a bit off topic, but I saw on old post (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6010) that Hasselblad had done a firmware upgrade that upped usable iso of H3d31 a stop. What's the chances of them doing that for other models in the (near) future?

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    Sorry if a bit off topic, but I saw on old post (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6010) that Hasselblad had done a firmware upgrade that upped usable iso of H3d31 a stop. What's the chances of them doing that for other models in the (near) future?
    I am barely happy with ISO 800 on my H4D, so if they will have a firmware to push it up to ISO 1600 i will not regret, if it is good usable it will be bonus, if not then i can always use ISO 800 and lower.
    Tareq

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Thanks Zonevt and Jack, I think that make sense in the all day work.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Her one with 400ISO pushed +2EV in Phocus. Point of focus was the yellow "band" in front. With the new Macro 120/4.0, 160/4.0.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    Sorry if a bit off topic, but I saw on old post (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6010) that Hasselblad had done a firmware upgrade that upped usable iso of H3d31 a stop. What's the chances of them doing that for other models in the (near) future?
    If I recall correctly David, the H3D/39 was upped from 400 to 800 at the same time.

    We have to remember that the non-micro lens sensors have a base ISO of 50 and the sensors like the 31 and 40 start at ISO 100.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    shown before...here is one shot with H3D-39 (yes the version 1), so this is maxed out ISO at 800. Phocus did quite a good job...with HCD4/28. 4s exposure at f/16. Color rebalanced in CS4.

    Nice.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    and this is also with 400ISO, 120/4.0 VII 1/200sec/4.0 wit 1 EV push in Phocus (made in Köln).

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by rem View Post
    and this is also with 400ISO, 120/4.0 VII 1/200sec/4.0 wit 1 EV push in Phocus (made in Köln).
    Nice.

    So, did you have the 120 version-1 before getting this newer one? I would love to know what the difference is, since the 1st version is so good.

    How is the newer one marked ... does it have a "n" after the name like the newer 150?

    Thanks,

    Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Nice.

    So, did you have the 120 version-1 before getting this newer one? I would love to know what the difference is, since the 1st version is so good.

    How is the newer one marked ... does it have a "n" after the name like the newer 150?

    Thanks,

    Marc
    I am also interested to know about the difference between v.1 and v.2 of 120 Macro regarding about the quality.
    Tareq

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    I don't think anyone is suggesting that MF can compete with SF on a per-pixel basis for high ISO noise performance.

    I believe Jack is suggesting that with the additional pixels that MF delivers, you don't have to pack it up when the situation calls for high ISO, but rather take advantage of those pixels to get good high ISO performance out of your back by averaging out the noise.
    And,

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    You don't print or display at 100%. You print or display at a given size (e.g. 30"x40" or 1000pixel wide). If the dSLR noise ends up larger physically than the medium format noise that is a major consideration.

    Unless your goal is to analyze numbers rather than pictures.
    Exactly -- compare the cameras at total pixel counts, not actual pixels. Crank a DSLR sensor up to 60MP and they will be hella noisy!
    Jack
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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Marc and Tareq, I had the old Version only a few times to test, because I was not shure I will take the 120 or 150mm. Then 2 weeks before Photokina I would buy it but decided then to wait to look what Photokina brings;-) The difference seems to be a "II" engraved at the lens name

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I hope 200 iso is also high iso...;-) Here to pics with the new 120mm. On the new 50mm you see the "II". Both pics stright from the camera, sharpening 100 (default), only crop around.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I hope it works now with the files...

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    I hope it's ok if I insert one which relates more to the handheld mentions above, although it was med ISO - 200. Before I explain why I have posted, I absolutely know it's not great art, it's simply a bit of a building I had to get and had seconds, literally, to get it as the rain was starting.

    I pointed the thing in more or less the right direction and fired off at a few different angles. I was truly shocked to see reasonable results at 1/20th! Normally I would steady my breathing, try to control the shaking (must try stopping my heart) rest against anything more solid than me and ever-so-gently squeeze the trigger. And still usually end up with a blur. Funny old world.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    ISO400, Mamiya ZD back, pushed about stop up (i.e effective iso 800), handheld with RZIId at about 1/45, lit by campfire & twilight in forest. No noise removal been involved in processing. I hate to do it unless its really really required.
    Last edited by SergeiR; 4th November 2010 at 09:05.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Leica S2 - 35 mm - ISO 1250 - 27inch compatible :-)


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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    That looks pretty good for ISO 1250.

    Got anything shot at 1250 in lower light? Very curious to see it.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    just a snapshot in the atelier 1600iso 1/6 sec

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    One of my friend, the Photographer Edward Richter.

    Hand-held H3D-II/31 @ ISO 800, 1/60th shutter. HC 150mm lens @ f/4.5.

    I think this was shot before I upgraded the firmware to enable ISO1600, so 800 was the top ISO.

    -Marc

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    One of my friend, the Photographer Edward Richter.

    Hand-held H3D-II/31 @ ISO 800, 1/60th shutter. HC 150mm lens @ f/4.5.

    I think this was shot before I upgraded the firmware to enable ISO1600, so 800 was the top ISO.

    -Marc
    love the expression and the lighting.

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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    Shown this before...P65+ ISO 800 (not Sensor+) 300 APO hand held. Noise is visible in the dark areas of the head but not seen in print.


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    Re: Show Your High ISO MFD

    ups, I posted some with 400,800 and 1600iso in the "Fun with MF" folder...

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