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Thread: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Personally I think any thread titled THIS versus THAT is interesting only up to a point. Then the inevitable nit picking begins and /or selective quotation(often) out of context...

    As for megapixel count it is on the one hand an 'easy' benchmark and on the other hand a limited criteria.

    At what point does more become overkill? For me it was above 30mp in a 1.1X crop - and then only because I like to use wides. Innovation like the Alpa STC and easier stitching makes this observation redundant for me now.

    The cost of entry for those who wish to use the advantages of a digital back on a tech camera is about 1/3rd what it was only two years ago - that is how much and how fast this stuff depreciates.

    The cost of entry in a pis$$ng contest will always be the latest high meg back - good luck with that.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Personally I think any thread titled THIS versus THAT is interesting only up to a point. Then the inevitable nit picking begins and /or selective quotation(often) out of context...

    As for megapixel count it is on the one hand an 'easy' benchmark and on the other hand a limited criteria.

    At what point does more become overkill? For me it was above 30mp in a 1.1X crop - and then only because I like to use wides. Innovation like the Alpa STC and easier stitching makes this observation redundant for me now.

    The cost of entry for those who wish to use the advantages of a digital back on a tech camera is about 1/3rd what it was only two years ago - that is how much and how fast this stuff depreciates.

    The cost of entry in a pis$$ng contest will always be the latest high meg back - good luck with that.
    Ain't that the truth.

    For me it's not just the quantity of pixels it's also the quality. A balance between file size, ability to crop, and detail for critical product work verse other uses like shooting people and rendering skin tones.

    Also, all of it depends greatly on what you shoot, where you shoot and what happens to the images after you shoot. It becomes over-kill when you exceed the real need. It isn't if it allows use of one camera to accomplish a broader variety of tasks.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Marc, this makes perfect sense. You obviously also have a need for a higher megapixel back, whereas others have no need for anything beyond 30MP.

    Do you have any estimate of when you will receive your H4D-60?

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Marc, this makes perfect sense. You obviously also have a need for a higher megapixel back, whereas others have no need for anything beyond 30MP.

    Do you have any estimate of when you will receive your H4D-60?
    I will wire transfer the money Monday, and should have it by Weds. or Thursday.

    I have a ton of GM fabrics to shoot next week, so it will be an interesting test. The swatches are only 9" X 12", so I rarely have an issue with moiré when shooting that close. But they usually contain a huge amount of detail ... and smaller macro detail swatches are cropped out for various uses.

    All this coming year, I'll also be using this camera to document historical family homes once occupied by Civil War soldiers ... including shots with the current owners. These will be printed quite large for a show at the Historical Museum ... and used in a book and calendar.

    I probably won't use it at weddings unless there is a specific request for something needing that kind of resolution. I once did a 7' print of the Bride and Groom standing under the big Tiger at Commerica Ball Park in Detroit including the entire stadium behind them ... and another request to shoot all 120 people at a wedding in one shot ... both done with MFD. I like to do a lot of wedding shots with MFD, but that is now more S2 territory.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    As I was hiking through the desert this week with a vast wilderness to what I thought was myself, I ironically ran into another photographer who was looking for a shot of the same piece of sky that I was looking to shoot. He just happened to be standing on the same rock that I wandered over to stand on. He asked if I was there to 'steal his rocks'. I replied that indeed I was and we struck up a friendly conversation about photography and gear. It turns out that he was a career photographer with 40 years of experience shooting fine art and commercial projects. He was there with a view camera and Phase back taking a series of methodical shots that he was going to stitch together. Whereas I was crawling all over the rocks with an S2 looking for a variety of interesting angles and compositions that I could blow up larger. We spoke about how we admired the approach the other was utilizing and in the end mused about how with different styles and gear we ended up on the same rock. We exchanged cards and will be exchanging a few prints to admire how each person uniquely viewed the same perspective arrived at by different paths.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Nice story Kurt.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    As I was hiking through the desert this week with a vast wilderness to what I thought was myself, I ironically ran into another photographer who was looking for a shot of the same piece of sky that I was looking to shoot. He just happened to be standing on the same rock that I wandered over to stand on. He asked if I was there to 'steal his rocks'. I replied that indeed I was and we struck up a friendly conversation about photography and gear. It turns out that he was a career photographer with 40 years of experience shooting fine art and commercial projects. He was there with a view camera and Phase back taking a series of methodical shots that he was going to stitch together. Whereas I was crawling all over the rocks with an S2 looking for a variety of interesting angles and compositions that I could blow up larger. We spoke about how we admired the approach the other was utilizing and in the end mused about how with different styles and gear we ended up on the same rock. We exchanged cards and will be exchanging a few prints to admire how each person uniquely viewed the same perspective arrived at by different paths.
    A fine example of "mutual respect" versus a desire to establish superiority. I am sure both of you were happier in the end to have met each other. In my travels those are the people I always end up remembering and often later continuing friendships with.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by Arif View Post
    A fine example of "mutual respect" versus a desire to establish superiority. I am sure both of you were happier in the end to have met each other. In my travels those are the people I always end up remembering and often later continuing friendships with.
    Yes, I completely agree with this and have met some of the nicest photographers this way. A mutual respect and sharing of ideas.

    Kurt, great story and it will be intersting for both of you to share (exchange) images. This is not so much for the equipment each used, but more for the vision each had for that particular group of scenes and how that got translated into the images they captured.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    All these discussion and comparisons are nice, but in the end of the day I cannot get rid of the thought, that the more is written about these subjects, the more assurance to have done (bought) the right equipment is needed - sorry for that.

    FOr me the H System is the best MF system on the market, this is my personal opinion and also thus my personal choice. And this puts itself together from the camera, the lenses, accessories, digital backs and SW. Which in the case of Hasselblad has reached the highest common quality - again my personal observation.

    The S System is a great system, but it aims in a very different direction of high quality (resolution) photography. Robustness, usability, IQ etc are the strengths of this system. The immatureness of Leica in the area of MF cameras as well as the lack of lenses are the downsides of this systems - both will improve over time.

    If I had to choose again a MF system today, I would choose the H system a second time. Would I love to also have a S2? Sure, but there are certain limits .....

    BTW - what we all tend to forget here - 40MP are more than enough to also make the most demanding, dramatic and largest landscape prints - in far better quality than scanned from a 6x6 negative with a professional scanner. So for general demanding and high quality images 40MP are really enough. Sure, 60 or even 80 or in a year maybe 100MP will be even better. But who needs it? Waiting for the answers

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

    I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

    I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it.

    What a dummy.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Marc - please keep climbing that learning curve and whilst you are at it KEEP A JOURNAL named "for Pete"

    it should come in handy for me in a week or so...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

    I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

    I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it.

    What a dummy.

    -Marc
    It took me about two weeks to uncover that brilliant little feature by accident after holding one of the buttons for a few seconds. It makes a big difference in workflow. Your comment reminds me that I need to take the time to thoroughly read the manual ... who knows what else I'm missing out on by just jumping in with a quick skim-through.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Marc - please keep climbing that learning curve and whilst you are at it KEEP A JOURNAL named "for Pete"

    it should come in handy for me in a week or so...
    Will do Pete!

    Lots more to this sucker than I first thought. Pretty clever actually.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    It took me about two weeks to uncover that brilliant little feature by accident after holding one of the buttons for a few seconds. It makes a big difference in workflow. Your comment reminds me that I need to take the time to thoroughly read the manual ... who knows what else I'm missing out on by just jumping in with a quick skim-through.
    Someone said the stop down button can be assigned a quick function also ... have to investigate that when I get the time.

    Unless you find it first

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Marc, you may want to consider viewing the Dale Photo and Digital video tutorials on the S2. David and Josh cover a lot of good information on the S2 - most of which you probably know by now, but you may still be able to pick up a tidbit here and there. Although the videos don't address the last firmware update, I still think every new or potential S2 user should watch them.
    Last edited by Mark Gowin; 26th January 2011 at 04:13. Reason: Correct typo

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    It is so quick and easy to reassign the function of the soft buttons that I often change one button from shoot to shoot depending on circumstances. I always use one button for ISO and another for Exposure Compensation. However, I find that I usually use the third button for Drive Mode (because selftimer also automatically initiates mirror lockup), but sometime change the button to Metering Mode. Oh and yes you can program the stop down button.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Marc, you may want to consider viewing the Dale Photo and Digital video tutorials on the S2. David and Josh cover a lot of good information on the S2 - most of which you probably know by now, but you may still be able to pick up a tidbit here and there. Although the videos don't address the last firmware update, I still think every new or potential S2 user should watch them.
    You beat me to the punch Mark.

    We're not huge fans of reading the manual, especially as the one for the S2 is not the clearest or most comprehensive source of information.

    So, we made a video instruction manual that walks a user through each menu item. We even have a video just for setting and accessing custom functions.

    Personally, I assign upper left to ISO, bottom left to Drive Mode, lower right to EV Comp and DOF button to Key Lock.

    For Marc W, I'd suggest using the DOF button to access WB. A short tap on the DOF button will bring up the WB menu (no need to press and hold like the rear buttons). Scroll up (the menus roll over) to get to Manual WB, take a shot of your white/gray card and you're set to go.

    David
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    ...Personally, I assign upper left to ISO, bottom left to Drive Mode, lower right to EV Comp and DOF button to Key Lock...
    That is my standard button configuration as well.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    ... I know it's in the manual somewhere...
    When zoomed in on an image, just click the wheel then scroll left/right using the wheel or up/down using a combination of the wheel plus upper left button. Click the wheel again to switch back to zoom mode.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...
    If what you're after is Zoom Lock (the ability to scroll through images while zoomed in to compare details, expressions, etc), then:

    1) Set Zoom Lock to On in the last page of the Setup Menu

    2) While in playback and image is zoomed in, press upper left key once to bring up context buttons, then press and hold upper left key again (now labeled Fit)

    3) Turn dial left or right and previous or next image will be displayed with same zoom level

    We cover it at 4:00 in our Playback Menu video: http://www.youtube.com/user/DalePhot.../5/gITS-bJLTtk

    Too bad your dealer never showed you this.

    David
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...
    I just figured that one out myself. But I already forgot

    It isn't intuitive ... you'd think that once zoomed you'd just use the big buttons ... but instead you have to get the red direction arrow to come up and then scroll.

    Probably easier than that ... but I only just figured it out.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I will wire transfer the money Monday, and should have it by Weds. or Thursday.

    I have a ton of GM fabrics to shoot next week, so it will be an interesting test. The swatches are only 9" X 12", so I rarely have an issue with moiré when shooting that close. But they usually contain a huge amount of detail ... and smaller macro detail swatches are cropped out for various uses.

    -Marc
    Marc,

    So how did your shoot of GM fabrics go with your H4D-60?

    David

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Marc,

    So how did your shoot of GM fabrics go with your H4D-60?

    David
    At the last minute, I cancelled the H4D/60 order David.

    Another member forwarded the opinion that my current 39/MS was as good or better for this type work, and proved it, at least to my eye.

    Blasted off the entire job today (just got fabrics Friday night) and the H2F/39MF delivered like crazy. God, I love watching this thing work. The biggest issue is getting every speck of dust off the product ... the Multi-Shot shows everything.

    To be honest with you, I've been underwhelmed by what I see coming out of these bigger backs ... Hassey, Leaf or Phase One. People have different criteria I guess.

    I'll stick with the S2 and H2F/39MS for now and wait to see what happens next.

    I just ordered a S120 Macro and a few S accessories.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    At the last minute, I cancelled the H4D/60 order David.

    Another member forwarded the opinion that my current 39/MS was as good or better for this type work, and proved it, at least to my eye.

    Blasted off the entire job today (just got fabrics Friday night) and the H2F/39MF delivered like crazy. God, I love watching this thing work. The biggest issue is getting every speck of dust off the product ... the Multi-Shot shows everything.

    To be honest with you, I've been underwhelmed by what I see coming out of these bigger backs ... Hassey, Leaf or Phase One. People have different criteria I guess.

    I'll stick with the S2 and H2F/39MS for now and wait to see what happens next.

    I just ordered a S120 Macro and a few S accessories.

    -Marc
    But you sold your H4D40? I think that was the right decision if you already have an S2. But interesting that you were not going for the H4D60 ... makes me start thinking again what I can do ....

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    But you sold your H4D40? I think that was the right decision if you already have an S2. But interesting that you were not going for the H4D60 ... makes me start thinking again what I can do ....
    " ... what you can do Peter," should have nothing to do with what I am doing. We each have our own criteria, needs, and desires when making photographs.

    At this time in my photographic trek, the S2 fits my vision and type of mobile work, and for now the H2F/39MS does everything I need in the studio ... and is still a 39 meg single shot when needed ... which was the best you could get not to long ago.

    No doubt in my mind that Hasselblad has the best camera and focusing system, but now lags in its backs to some degree (now the only MFD with a low resolution LCD for mobile work), and Phase still lags in the camera itself. I doubt either of those situations will remain for very long. So, IMO never has there been a better time to wait and see what happens. The howling winds of change are upon us.

    Strictly my opinion, and highly subject to change, I see nothing from the big meg backs that induces the "Want's and Gimme's." In fact, just the opposite. Perhaps because it's all new and not optimized yet, or perhaps because the systems themselves can't cope with it all ... like slamming a 426 Hemi into a Yugo ... Doesn't matter why to me ... it just ain't working yet to my eye.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    @ Marc

    yes, sure I will make my own decisions - as I need to at these price tags!

    But my thoughts are very similar to yours.

    1) Reiterating myself - but as a long year Leica photographer the S2 would naturally fall pretty cool into my photographing habits

    2) for landscape work one does not really need more than 40MP, I proved that to me several times, even printing very big. And hell, if I would need more I can use stitching - again not a too big issue when doing landscape

    3) So I am pretty well served with the H3D39 resolution wise, well it could need the TF of the H4D but I can survive, again as I am using the Hassi more for landscape .....

    4) While I would love to play around with 80MP I know that there are several limitations doing so, they already come with 60MP - as most of the lenses are not really suited for that resolution - I do NOT buy the marketing garbage of all the vendors here. And as I do not need this resolution, I am really happy with what I have now.

    5) There will be lot of changes and evolutions (maybe revolutions) in MFD. The S system will grow, there will be an S3 in some 2 years (hopefully) and more lenses. There will be new bodies for the Phase - I call the Phase body the current missing link in their system. There will be also I hope new things in the H system, maybe they will close the gap in their high resolution back to Phase? Maybe they will also introduce an new body, maybe weather sealed like the Pentax?

    6) Yes and the Pentax, this is another very interesting MFD system, at least it has the potential to bring down prices over all!

    The right thing to do with my equipment I have available is just sit and wait. Maybe do the step to buy an M9 and get rid of my Nikon stuff, because I do not use this anymore, especially since I have the GH2

    But end of the day I want to get into the S system, mainly because of similar reasons like you - best IQ in 40MP, high portability and weather sealing - very robust! And maybe all I will need for the next years ---- well I know this will never happen

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    " ... what you can do Peter," should have nothing to do with what I am doing. We each have our own criteria, needs, and desires when making photographs.

    At this time in my photographic trek, the S2 fits my vision and type of mobile work, and for now the H2F/39MS does everything I need in the studio ... and is still a 39 meg single shot when needed ... which was the best you could get not to long ago.

    No doubt in my mind that Hasselblad has the best camera and focusing system, but now lags in its backs to some degree (now the only MFD with a low resolution LCD for mobile work), and Phase still lags in the camera itself. I doubt either of those situations will remain for very long. So, IMO never has there been a better time to wait and see what happens. The howling winds of change are upon us.

    Strictly my opinion, and highly subject to change, I see nothing from the big meg backs that induces the "Want's and Gimme's." In fact, just the opposite. Perhaps because it's all new and not optimized yet, or perhaps because the systems themselves can't cope with it all ... like slamming a 426 Hemi into a Yugo ... Doesn't matter why to me ... it just ain't working yet to my eye.

    -Marc
    wow, you don't check in for a couple of months and things really change!!
    spent a few minutes trying to surf through this transition..post some shots with the new rig.
    edit..found the s2 image thread..
    Last edited by paulmoore; 7th February 2011 at 06:55.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    They have already sold a 4 figure number of Leica S2... not bad in 2010...
    Where exactly did you get this "4 figure" from? Not too many professionals would put up with the Leica attitude and supply problems. The best promise I have received is 6 month wait (minimum) for the S2 - which I have ordered - and a similar wait for an extra lens, but no guarantees or specific delivery date! This is against a 3 week delivery for my H4D-31, and I received 4 extra lenses (HCD28, HC100/2.2, HC150/3.2) within 1 week of ordering from Robert White and/or local dealer (same day/in stock). I wonder how many people (especially pros) actually have received and are shooting out there with S2s!!! It's not just about lens quality and IQ.. it is also about availability of product & reliability of service!

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Depends on circumstances and your dealer I guess.

    S2P, and all four lenses currently available delivered with-in a month and are at work in the studio.

    Only just took delivery of the H4D/60 I ordered 1.5 years ago.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Simple solution for me when deciding on Leica S2 vs H4D. i contacted both companies before deciding and Leica ignored me, and Hasselblad bent over backwards.

    Neither brand will take better pictures, nor will either make me more money. Service is all that matters at this end of the spectrum, and no matter what 'perceived' advantages the S2, 'may' have, Hasselblad is the camera now in my hands.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    Simple solution for me when deciding on Leica S2 vs H4D. i contacted both companies before deciding and Leica ignored me, and Hasselblad bent over backwards.

    Neither brand will take better pictures, nor will either make me more money. Service is all that matters at this end of the spectrum, and no matter what 'perceived' advantages the S2, 'may' have, Hasselblad is the camera now in my hands.
    No disagreement from me on this. Advantages are indeed "perceived" and depend on personal preferences not any quantifiable proof. Service, and availability of replacements or rentals is a key factor if you make your living with these tools. Leica has recently proved themselves in this regard with a S2 issue, and so has Hasselblad when they recently turned my 100/2.2 repair around in little over a week. There is no doubt that the H is the more versatile system with many tools and various adaptabilities to fit almost any need or assignment.

    Fortunately, I have excellent dealers for both brands ... long relationships with solid connections ... I don't deal directly with the companies, they do. My relationship is with them one-on-one. I've used the same Leica dealer for 20+ years ... a S2 lens comes in as part of his consignment and I'm always first on the list, same for the M stuff. Same H dealer for 7 years now, I want/need something, he makes it happen ... or comes by, and helps me set something up.

    Good shooting to you!

    -Marc

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No disagreement from me on this. Advantages are indeed "perceived" and depend on personal preferences not any quantifiable proof. Service, and availability of replacements or rentals is a key factor if you make your living with these tools. Leica has recently proved themselves in this regard with a S2 issue, and so has Hasselblad when they recently turned my 100/2.2 repair around in little over a week. There is no doubt that the H is the more versatile system with many tools and various adaptabilities to fit almost any need or assignment.

    Fortunately, I have excellent dealers for both brands ... long relationships with solid connections ... I don't deal directly with the companies, they do. My relationship is with them one-on-one. I've used the same Leica dealer for 20+ years ... a S2 lens comes in as part of his consignment and I'm always first on the list, same for the M stuff. Same H dealer for 7 years now, I want/need something, he makes it happen ... or comes by, and helps me set something up.

    Good shooting to you!

    -Marc
    Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.
    That is strictly an opinion that depends on the use, applications and circumstances don't you think? I know some professionals that are either shooting with the S2, or are seriously considering it. I sure the heck didn't buy it to shoot doggie pics (even though I may shoot my doggie if I feel like it: -)

    In terms of usability, it's a quick a spontaneous camera to work with compared to the traditional MFD ... well suited to fashion, high-end event, corporate and people work ... producing files that are aesthetic companions to my M9 which I personally like a lot. And it is completely weather sealed including the lenses ... which is useful to some people.

    Price was, is, and will continue to be a gripe ... it's Leica, so what's new? M and R were always premium priced, hard to get and almost cult like ... now S2 optics are also relatively expensive and hard to get. However, I can't recall ever losing money on any Leica optic, ... which I can't say for any other series of lenses including the H/C line-up. So, it's all relative. The S2 120 Macro is a f/2.5 optic ... making it unique compared to all the other MFD Macros.

    No disparaging of Hasselblad ... it's my weapon of choice for a lot of commercial applications requiring more specialized accessories and functions ... or use on a technical camera with T/S. Time will tell how well developed the S2 system will become ... but all I want/need is a 24mm and 1.4XAPO for the 180 and I'd be set.

    But as always, love the one you are with is the best policy for maintaining sanity!

    -Marc

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    That is strictly an opinion that depends on the use, applications and circumstances don't you think? I know some professionals that are either shooting with the S2, or are seriously considering it. I sure the heck didn't buy it to shoot doggie pics (even though I may shoot my doggie if I feel like it: -)

    In terms of usability, it's a quick a spontaneous camera to work with compared to the traditional MFD ... well suited to fashion, high-end event, corporate and people work ... producing files that are aesthetic companions to my M9 which I personally like a lot. And it is completely weather sealed including the lenses ... which is useful to some people.

    Price was, is, and will continue to be a gripe ... it's Leica, so what's new? M and R were always premium priced, hard to get and almost cult like ... now S2 optics are also relatively expensive and hard to get. However, I can't recall ever losing money on any Leica optic, ... which I can't say for any other series of lenses including the H/C line-up. So, it's all relative. The S2 120 Macro is a f/2.5 optic ... making it unique compared to all the other MFD Macros.

    No disparaging of Hasselblad ... it's my weapon of choice for a lot of commercial applications requiring more specialized accessories and functions ... or use on a technical camera with T/S. Time will tell how well developed the S2 system will become ... but all I want/need is a 24mm and 1.4XAPO for the 180 and I'd be set.

    But as always, love the one you are with is the best policy for maintaining sanity!

    -Marc
    You haven't changed a bit from the photo.net days Marc...always great points that are hard to argue

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    You haven't changed a bit from the photo.net days Marc...always great points that are hard to argue
    My wife would disagree ...

    All the best,

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    We all come here to share our experiences and knowledge in the use of these sophisticated cameras. I personally couldn't care less what anyone chooses or doesn't choose. I learn a lot here, and share a lot here, and do NOT find it to be an overly "sensitive" forum at all ... but will share knowledge or opinions if I disagree or have another perspective.

    Based on experience:

    Dust will eventually get on the sensor of any digital camera with a removable lens unless you only use it in a computer clean room or never remove the lens ... including the S2. People who shoot a fully weather sealed Canon 1 series pro camera also have to clean the sensor from time to time. The weather sealing of the S2 has other major advantages for certain types of shooting, but a spotless sensor isn't one of them.

    The H battery is no different from any other Lithium battery. Reseting the battery fuel gauge is usually attributable to not conditioning the battery per instructions in the manual ... which people tend to not read, and then wonder why something doesn't work the way they want ... been there, done that myself .

    I noted the procedure to reset the H battery fuel gauge in my post above. It takes all of 5 seconds, and once done shouldn't be needed again ... IF you follow the directions in the manual and deplete the battery fully a couple of times a year and then fully recharge it for 12 hours. I rarely, if ever, need my second H battery during a shoot.

    Plus, we have to remember that the H camera uses one battery to drive both the camera and the back as opposed to the need for two separate battery supplies on other MFD modular cameras.

    If you do long sessions in the studio with the camera on for long periods of time using lots of the energy draining features, I recommend the AC H power grip. I also like it because I always have a powered camera for impromptu shoots without having to worry if I have a fully charged-up battery at the ready all of the time.

    If you repeatedly have to re-set anything else on the camera, then something is wrong and your Hasselblad dealer should be consulted.

    That's the info based on actually using this stuff for a long time, take it or leave it.

    -Marc
    My Hasselblad dealer, Peter Lorber, recently showed me how to reduce substantialy dust getting into my HD4. If you remove your viewfinder and place a thick elastic rubber band over the area that connects the back to the camera body, you effectively create a seal that greatly reduces the possibility of dust getting into the back. The viewfinder easily reattaches

  38. #138
    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    My Hasselblad dealer, Peter Lorber, recently showed me how to reduce substantialy dust getting into my HD4. If you remove your viewfinder and place a thick elastic rubber band over the area that connects the back to the camera body, you effectively create a seal that greatly reduces the possibility of dust getting into the back. The viewfinder easily reattaches
    Any chance of seeing picture of this so we don't elasticize our H4D's

  39. #139
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.
    I owned an H3D and H4D, and enjoyed shooting with the S2 more. The advantages I experienced with the S2, were battery performance, which is far superior to Hasselblad. The S2's weather sealing is not marketing hype either, that camera loves crappy weather! Although, I give Leica a win for better glass right in the camera, I prefer the aspect ratio of the H. I took more pictures with the S2 too, it's more fun to use. The S2's price with lenses though, is somewhat insulting for a closed system, so my choice now is Phase One, with it's ability to adapt to many different cameras.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

    I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

    I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it.

    What a dummy.

    -Marc
    Hey Marc

    You need to go to David Farkas site and watch the video tutorials he and Josh Lehrer prepared for new S2 users. If you had, you would have already had your buttons programmed. Not being sarcastic here, just that for me, I viewed the six tutorials immediately after purchasing the system and it cut my learning curve immeasurably.

    Happy shooting

    Woody

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hey Marc

    You need to go to David Farkas site and watch the video tutorials he and Josh Lehrer prepared for new S2 users. If you had, you would have already had your buttons programmed. Not being sarcastic here, just that for me, I viewed the six tutorials immediately after purchasing the system and it cut my learning curve immeasurably.

    Happy shooting

    Woody
    That was back in January Woody. (See date on post). I'm well past all that, read the manual, saw all the videos, and figured out my best configuration months ago. All up to speed so to speak.

    Thanks anyway

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Depends on circumstances and your dealer I guess.

    S2P, and all four lenses currently available delivered with-in a month and are at work in the studio.

    Only just took delivery of the H4D/60 I ordered 1.5 years ago.

    -Marc
    You are really fortunate Marc (and your photography deserves it!).

    I am first on my dealer's list so have great hopes for the 120Macro as soon as Leica starts to deliver them to the USA again. The other three lenses were not bad though the 35 took a little time as I was in the front of the S2 adopters and all the lenses were slow to get back then. I understand the 120 is very similar to the 180 and I love the 180 so am looking forward to having that look at the smaller FL and having Macro as well.

    Keep sending us those images. You are one terrific photographer

    Woody

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    My Hasselblad dealer, Peter Lorber, recently showed me how to reduce substantialy dust getting into my HD4. If you remove your viewfinder and place a thick elastic rubber band over the area that connects the back to the camera body, you effectively create a seal that greatly reduces the possibility of dust getting into the back. The viewfinder easily reattaches
    Small rant: Hasselblad makes world class cameras. But adding a rubber band to keep out the dust in addition to the plastic electric cable strap I have that holds the eye piece on, camera is going to start looking pretty ghetto. Come on, Hasselblad.... it's not like I'm asking for 3,000ISO or 2 frames per second.

    Back to your regular programing.....

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    That was one of my earliest complaints with Hasselblad. Its design is based on a decades old platform and the charge of the sensor just pulls dust in! A rubber band...really?

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Rubber Band? A solution to a non-problem as far as I'm concerned ... but I base that on actual use and lots of it, not "marketing" theory.

    Never had much call to remove the H back in conditions where dust was an issue. I change lenses with the body pointed downward so gravity is my friend, and make sure there isn't any dust on the rear of the lens. Pretty basic stuff actually.

    Have shot MANY outdoors location jobs from beaches to blizzards, etc. ... I've even been caught in a roaring monsoon downpour with gale force winds and no shelter anywhere or anything to cover the camera ... to no effect what-so-ever ... wiped down the camera and finished the remaining 4 hours of the shoot indoors. Have also shot in sub zero conditions an 115º temps.

    Much to do about nothing except maybe to justify some buying urge by bunny rabbit hopping from one system to the next ... the manufactures just love that kind of seeker of the Holy Grail

    -Marc

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    My experience is dramatically more limited than Marc's, but I can say my H3D2-39 seems to attract dust spots faster than any digital camera I've owned, starting in 1998 or 1999. It's not a big deal, just a blast from the Giotto Rocket seems to be all that's needed, but it's needed regularly, and I do the gravity thing and all that.

    (Apologies for moving thread off course.)

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    My experience is dramatically more limited than Marc's, but I can say my H3D2-39 seems to attract dust spots faster than any digital camera I've owned, starting in 1998 or 1999. It's not a big deal, just a blast from the Giotto Rocket seems to be all that's needed, but it's needed regularly, and I do the gravity thing and all that.

    (Apologies for moving thread off course.)
    Try running an anti-static brush over it David. I use soft camel hair one that was made for films (speaking about attracting dust!). Can't recall if this is your first MFD kit ... but all the MFDs I've ever used had this tendency ... frankly, I've had almost as much dust in the 35mm cameras even with anti-dust shaking (probably because I change lenses more frequently than with MFD ... shows up more, and they are a hell of a lot harder to clean.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Marc,
    Camel brush worth a try. I'll get one.

    I've had noticeably less dust spots with Canon 5dMK2 with anti-dust shake than the 5d.

    (I wonder if you could walk me through something on H3d2-39 on the phone sometime. Will take no more than 2 minutes tops. I've got something set wrong for flash. I'll pm you tomorrow.)

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    Marc,
    Camel brush worth a try. I'll get one.

    I've had noticeably less dust spots with Canon 5dMK2 with anti-dust shake than the 5d.

    (I wonder if you could walk me through something on H3d2-39 on the phone sometime. Will take no more than 2 minutes tops. I've got something set wrong for flash. I'll pm you tomorrow.)
    Anytime David.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Solution to a non problem? That is, by definition an oxymoron. Honestly, the Phase One 645 DF does not attract as much dust, period and does not require a rubber band. When using a brush, make sure you discharge the dust from the previous cleaning otherwise you'll drag it over the sensor...again. Get a brush such as the BRUSHOFF, by Photographic Solutions, it's the best on the market for using a brush on the sensor

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