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Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

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David Schneider

New member
Marc,

You know I'm a beginner's beginner when it comes to mf. But as much as I'd like a camera with more focusing options, I'd pretty happy with an old fashion split image focusing screen (preferably with center circle with 45 degree split). While it might take a tad longer to focus that af, at least I know I'm getting focus where I want it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well to aid in knowing where your focus is, I refer back to my request be nice on the LCD there was a focus mask display. Basically it shows where your focus is right on the display. Now that would be trick and let you know you nailed it. I have not tried the new Hassy yet but it does sound interesting and more important useful. I do fine with the DF but there is always room for improvement on these systems.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc,

You know I'm a beginner's beginner when it comes to mf. But as much as I'd like a camera with more focusing options, I'd pretty happy with an old fashion split image focusing screen (preferably with center circle with 45 degree split). While it might take a tad longer to focus that af, at least I know I'm getting focus where I want it.
David, that is exactly what I have installed in my H2F. A Bright-Screen split diagonal with a large micro-prism collar. For a long time I was using Zeiss V manual focus lenses on the H2F camera to shoot film, and got that screen just for that purpose. I no longer use the V lenses, but I left the screen installed because I focus most tabletop manually anyway ... plus it helps focus lenses mounted to the HTS/1.5 which is manual focus. It's also a good double check that you did nail critical focus even when using AF. Either it snaps in clean or it doesn't. Easy to see.

I mostly use AF with true Focus for people work, like weddings, portraits and such, where I off-center compose a lot. My old eyes aren't what they used to be and AF helps a lot in more active shooting conditions. Better AF is why I swapped out of Contax 645 to The H.

-Marc

BTW, these screens aren't inexpensive ... but are on sale for $280. right now.

http://brightscreenstore.com/store/...Path=2&zenid=aed1f28772a944b8fa43b1eea7744f22
 
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"No existing H4D/60 has the double res LCD yet because the firmware hasn't been quite completed to enable it. So, hopefully we'll see how good it is in a month or so."

first I have heard of this, explains the lack of any comments on the new screen from any of the few H4D-60 posters, including D grover
I have actually mentioned that quite a few times myself.

This firmware to drive the screen at a higher resolution is finished and will be packaged in a new firmware for the H4D60 which includes a few other things.
 
Ok, TF is great! I agree! I only try to be careful to overvalue it!

Actually I would like to see TF in combination with multiple AF points in an MF camera. Why is it so hard to build an MF cam with at least 5 AF points? Or 11 like in the Olympus E3 or E5? One could actually buy such a solution from Olympus for example as they are selling their AF module as OEM. It of course would need some rework, but I do not understand MF camera vendors why they tend to reinvent the wheel.

I might consider upgrading my H3D39 to an H4D40, which seems to bring a number of advantages WRT speed and TF and newer sensor technology. I am still kind of hesitating to upgrade to a H4D60, as I do NOT want to handle that huge amount of data and actually do not need 60MP.

Why not put in 5 AF points? Because they would be mostly useless.

The further you place the points out from the centre their accuracy tolerance drops. Not so much of a problem on 35mm (although there are plenty of stories which proves the consistency of the outer points is not as good as the centre)

On an MF camera they would need to be a long way out to be useful.

I also think on the Pentax the outer points also don't work in portrait mode as these are enabled only in landscape mode.

D
 

David Schneider

New member
David, that is exactly what I have installed in my H2F. A Bright-Screen split diagonal with a large micro-prism collar.
Marc,

Will that Bright Screen work with your old H3d2/39?

My eyes got old on me too. True Focus might be a help, but that's not coming to my house for sometime. lol. But there are times I'd like to manually focus and without a split screen, it's a time consuming pain. Easier with mf than dslr, but still a pain, especially in low light.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc,

Will that Bright Screen work with your old H3d2/39?

My eyes got old on me too. True Focus might be a help, but that's not coming to my house for sometime. lol. But there are times I'd like to manually focus and without a split screen, it's a time consuming pain. Easier with mf than dslr, but still a pain, especially in low light.
It should work on any H camera. The screens are inter-changable.

Mine doesn't have the 39 sensor crop lines etched on it ... it was originally for shooting film. Don't know if you can get that custom made from BrightScreen. I just allow for it when using the 39MS back.

-Marc
 

David Schneider

New member
Marc,

If you get a chance sometime, pop it it your H4d40 and see what it looks like when you auto focus and manual focus.

I use Bright Screen once. Seem like competent people.
 
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salaamss

Guest
I am always amazed at these discussions comparing S2 with H4D. Surprisingly, you find no photo comparisons - though many are fast to point out they own/use both. Many seem to be talented photographers with great galleries to prove it... Do they really need the tiniest, almost undistinguishable differences in IQ - that would probably swing either way on any given situation??? I have an H4D31 and always wonder what the H4D40 would really give me in terms of solid IQ advantage. I also would love to try out an S2, because it would seem more of an outdoor camera - which is what I wish to concentrate on. I have lots to learn from people like you - but don't seem to get much scientific evidence to help me on my decisions to upgrade/change.
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
I am always amazed at these discussions comparing S2 with H4D. Surprisingly, you find no photo comparisons - though many are fast to point out they own/use both. Many seen to be talented photographers with great galleries to prove it... Do they really need the tiniest, almost undistinguishable differences in IQ - that would probably swing either way on any given situation??? I have an H4D31 and always wonder what the H4D41 would really give me in terms of solid IQ advantage. I also would love to try out an S2, because it would seem more of an outdoor camera - which is what I wish to concentrate on. I have lots to learn from people like you - but don't seem to get much scientific evidence to help me on my decisions to upgrade/change.
Actually, I've posted some direct comparison shots including large crops ... but they were more about focusing than pixel level Image Quality. I haven't had the S2P long enough to make any declarations in pure IQ comparisons to my H4D/40 ... it takes awhile to zero in on processing techniques with a new camera ... where I've used the H4D/40 for a much longer time.

Image Quality and Image Qualities are two related but different evaluations IMO. One is more quantifiable and the other more subjective. The two get mixed up quite frequently.

IMO, the differences between the H4D/40 and Leica S2 are much more about the physical properties of the camera itself as it relates to the photographer's needs. Any minor differences in IQ most likely will play second fiddle to these considerations. If a versatile modular camera with more advanced AF for off-center compositions, a vast array of accessories and lenses including a T/S adapter, and a much more effective tethered option and a proprietary, highly tuned software is what the photographer needs then the H4D/40 is worth a look. If 35mm DSLR type handling, more mobility, less versatility, lenses that require less proprietary software corrections, and superior weather sealing better fits the photographer's specific needs, than the S2 is worth a look.

Personally, I've decided to employ the Playtex Bra strategy of "Lift and Separate", and decided to up the H4D kit to a H4D/60 ... which will win the IQ contest hands down ... so when needed it is there with all its accessories (like a waist level finder and T/S unit), versatility (like use on a view camera and superior tethered use in studio), and vast lens choices. When all that clutter is not needed, the S2P will be the camera of choice. However, not all photographers need this much versatility for the range of work they do ... where for others it is more about Horses For Courses.

-Marc
 

xpixel

New member
I am always amazed at these discussions comparing S2 with H4D.
I have the impression that here is 95% the question about IQ of this and that MF equipment. BUT rarely somebody speaks about the handling of an MF camera. I have compared the S2 with a Mamya 645DF with a Leaf back. Sorry guys the workflow and handling of a cam with a back is at least for me very old-fashioned or to put it plenty behind the times. In terms of the testesd Mamya very inelegant. An S2 in contrast is a real beauty to use, in the studio as well as outdoor.
I agree if somebody has a lot of time and patience he could use a camera with a back but never for me...:)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have the impression that here is 95% the question about IQ of this and that MF equipment. BUT rarely somebody speaks about the handling of an MF camera. I have compared the S2 with a Mamya 645DF with a Leaf back. Sorry guys the workflow and handling of a cam with a back is at least for me very old-fashioned or to put it plenty behind the times. In terms of the testesd Mamya very inelegant. An S2 in contrast is a real beauty to use, in the studio as well as outdoor.
I agree if somebody has a lot of time and patience he could use a camera with a back but never for me...:)
Lack of familiarity breeds contempt. :ROTFL:

What really amazes me is how anyone can evaluate any of this stuff without becoming really familiar with it. Hard to do unfortunately, so we use previous experiences as a gauge and never fully explore the actual handling and workflow of any given camera until we own it.

I cannot speak to the Mamiya Leaf combo other than the much older version I once owned. I can say for a certainty that the control layout/access of the Hasselblad H4D is light years ahead of the S2 ... which I've used long enough now to properly compare. So the S2 may look more elegant and feel nice in hand, but actually shooting with it is a totally different matter.

I could go on for many more paragraphs, but suffice it to say that I do not confuse beauty with brains when it comes to actually shooting photographs.:)

But the S2 is young, and many things can be done with firmware over time to speed things up. So let's not kick the legs out from under the thoroughbred colt before it has a chance to stand up and learn to run ... :thumbup:

-Marc
 

David Klepacki

New member
Personally, I've decided to employ the Playtex Bra strategy of "Lift and Separate", and decided to up the H4D kit to a H4D/60 ... which will win the IQ contest hands down ... so when needed it is there with all its accessories (like a waist level finder and T/S unit), versatility (like use on a view camera and superior tethered use in studio), and vast lens choices. When all that clutter is not needed, the S2P will be the camera of choice. However, not all photographers need this much versatility for the range of work they do ... where for others it is more about Horses For Courses.

-Marc
I also agree with this conclusion. I shot with the S2 last week and I was quite impressed. In the "lower" resolution category of about 40MP, the Leica S2 seems to have more to offer than the Hasselblad H4D-40. For me, there is no better vote of confidence for a camera system than someone like Marc who opens their own checkbook and maybe even pays a premium in their final choice. So, yes, when the "clutter" of a larger MFDB camera like the H4D is not really needed, the Leica S2 system seems to be a wonderful system to use.

Marc, thanks again for all your comments and feedback here on GetDPI, and good luck with your systems. On another note, you might end up finding that the H4D-60 may not be enough resolution increase to make a difference compared to your S2. Since you have already "lifted and separated" your camera systems, you might want to take a look at the new 80MP backs from Leaf and hopefully soon from Phase One.

David
 
S

Shelby Lewis

Guest
On another note, you might end up finding that the H4D-60 may not be enough resolution increase to make a difference compared to your S2. Since you have already "lifted and separated" your camera systems, you might want to take a look at the new 80MP backs from Leaf and hopefully soon from Phase One.

David
... and here I am all excited about my forthcoming foray into MF at (gasp!) 28MP. :ROTFL:
 

David Klepacki

New member
Hey Shelby, we all started out this way. You will be considering 40MP in no time, you just don't realize it yet. There is a reason for Jack and Guy quoting Dante's warning for this forum.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I also agree with this conclusion. I shot with the S2 last week and I was quite impressed. In the "lower" resolution category of about 40MP, the Leica S2 seems to have more to offer than the Hasselblad H4D-40. For me, there is no better vote of confidence for a camera system than someone like Marc who opens their own checkbook and maybe even pays a premium in their final choice. So, yes, when the "clutter" of a larger MFDB camera like the H4D is not really needed, the Leica S2 system seems to be a wonderful system to use.

Marc, thanks again for all your comments and feedback here on GetDPI, and good luck with your systems. On another note, you might end up finding that the H4D-60 may not be enough resolution increase to make a difference compared to your S2. Since you have already "lifted and separated" your camera systems, you might want to take a look at the new 80MP backs from Leaf and hopefully soon from Phase One.

David
No thanks David, a much larger sensor size, and 60 meg are more than enough "lifting and separating" ... and it comes on a H4D camera :thumbs:

I also do not agree that the S2 seems to offer than the H4D/40... so please stop editorializing on my behalf. They are just different platforms that both deliver good results.

The competitiveness here is getting ridiculous.

-Marc
 

David Klepacki

New member
No thanks David, a much larger sensor size, and 60 meg are more than enough "lifting and separating" ... and it comes on a H4D camera :thumbs:

I also do not agree that the S2 seems to offer than the H4D/40... so please stop editorializing on my behalf. They are just different platforms that both deliver good results.

The competitiveness here is getting ridiculous.

-Marc
Marc, please do not read more into this than what it is. I was being sincere in my comments, since you seem to be the kind of person that is interested in pursuing excellent equipment and image quality. If that were not the case, you would have no reason to even contemplate a Leica S2 over what you already have.

I do not intend to create any "competition" here. I merely congratulate you on your decision in camera systems, and I am in fact in agreement with your reasoning to choose the Leica S2 to fill your needs. I think you did a great job investigating the strengths and weaknesses of these systems on this forum and it sets a good example for other photographers who may be contemplating the purchase of a 40MP camera system, whether it be a H4D or S2 or anything else.
 
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