Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

[PeterA]

Personally I think any thread titled THIS versus THAT is interesting only up to a point. Then the inevitable nit picking begins and /or selective quotation(often) out of context...

As for megapixel count it is on the one hand an 'easy' benchmark and on the other hand a limited criteria.

At what point does more become overkill? For me it was above 30mp in a 1.1X crop - and then only because I like to use wides. Innovation like the Alpa STC and easier stitching makes this observation redundant for me now.

The cost of entry for those who wish to use the advantages of a digital back on a tech camera is about 1/3rd what it was only two years ago - that is how much and how fast this stuff depreciates.

The cost of entry in a pis$$ng contest will always be the latest high meg back - good luck with that.

 

[fotografz]

Personally I think any thread titled THIS versus THAT is interesting only up to a point. Then the inevitable nit picking begins and /or selective quotation(often) out of context...

As for megapixel count it is on the one hand an 'easy' benchmark and on the other hand a limited criteria.

At what point does more become overkill? For me it was above 30mp in a 1.1X crop - and then only because I like to use wides. Innovation like the Alpa STC and easier stitching makes this observation redundant for me now.

The cost of entry for those who wish to use the advantages of a digital back on a tech camera is about 1/3rd what it was only two years ago - that is how much and how fast this stuff depreciates.

The cost of entry in a pis$$ng contest will always be the latest high meg back - good luck with that.

Ain't that the truth.

For me it's not just the quantity of pixels it's also the quality. A balance between file size, ability to crop, and detail for critical product work verse other uses like shooting people and rendering skin tones.

Also, all of it depends greatly on what you shoot, where you shoot and what happens to the images after you shoot. It becomes over-kill when you exceed the real need. It isn't if it allows use of one camera to accomplish a broader variety of tasks.

-Marc

 

[David Klepacki]

Marc, this makes perfect sense. You obviously also have a need for a higher megapixel back, whereas others have no need for anything beyond 30MP.

Do you have any estimate of when you will receive your H4D-60?

 

[fotografz]

Marc, this makes perfect sense. You obviously also have a need for a higher megapixel back, whereas others have no need for anything beyond 30MP.

Do you have any estimate of when you will receive your H4D-60?

I will wire transfer the money Monday, and should have it by Weds. or Thursday.

I have a ton of GM fabrics to shoot next week, so it will be an interesting test. The swatches are only 9" X 12", so I rarely have an issue with moiré when shooting that close. But they usually contain a huge amount of detail ... and smaller macro detail swatches are cropped out for various uses.

All this coming year, I'll also be using this camera to document historical family homes once occupied by Civil War soldiers ... including shots with the current owners. These will be printed quite large for a show at the Historical Museum ... and used in a book and calendar.

I probably won't use it at weddings unless there is a specific request for something needing that kind of resolution. I once did a 7' print of the Bride and Groom standing under the big Tiger at Commerica Ball Park in Detroit including the entire stadium behind them ... and another request to shoot all 120 people at a wedding in one shot ... both done with MFD. I like to do a lot of wedding shots with MFD, but that is now more S2 territory.

-Marc

 

[KurtKamka]

As I was hiking through the desert this week with a vast wilderness to what I thought was myself, I ironically ran into another photographer who was looking for a shot of the same piece of sky that I was looking to shoot. He just happened to be standing on the same rock that I wandered over to stand on. He asked if I was there to 'steal his rocks'. I replied that indeed I was and we struck up a friendly conversation about photography and gear. It turns out that he was a career photographer with 40 years of experience shooting fine art and commercial projects. He was there with a view camera and Phase back taking a series of methodical shots that he was going to stitch together. Whereas I was crawling all over the rocks with an S2 looking for a variety of interesting angles and compositions that I could blow up larger. We spoke about how we admired the approach the other was utilizing and in the end mused about how with different styles and gear we ended up on the same rock. We exchanged cards and will be exchanging a few prints to admire how each person uniquely viewed the same perspective arrived at by different paths.

 

[PeterA]

Nice story Kurt.

 

[Arif]

As I was hiking through the desert this week with a vast wilderness to what I thought was myself, I ironically ran into another photographer who was looking for a shot of the same piece of sky that I was looking to shoot. He just happened to be standing on the same rock that I wandered over to stand on. He asked if I was there to 'steal his rocks'. I replied that indeed I was and we struck up a friendly conversation about photography and gear. It turns out that he was a career photographer with 40 years of experience shooting fine art and commercial projects. He was there with a view camera and Phase back taking a series of methodical shots that he was going to stitch together. Whereas I was crawling all over the rocks with an S2 looking for a variety of interesting angles and compositions that I could blow up larger. We spoke about how we admired the approach the other was utilizing and in the end mused about how with different styles and gear we ended up on the same rock. We exchanged cards and will be exchanging a few prints to admire how each person uniquely viewed the same perspective arrived at by different paths.

A fine example of "mutual respect" versus a desire to establish superiority. I am sure both of you were happier in the end to have met each other. In my travels those are the people I always end up remembering and often later continuing friendships with.

 

[D&A]

A fine example of "mutual respect" versus a desire to establish superiority. I am sure both of you were happier in the end to have met each other. In my travels those are the people I always end up remembering and often later continuing friendships with.

Yes, I completely agree with this and have met some of the nicest photographers this way. A mutual respect and sharing of ideas.

Kurt, great story and it will be intersting for both of you to share (exchange) images. This is not so much for the equipment each used, but more for the vision each had for that particular group of scenes and how that got translated into the images they captured.

Dave (D&A)

 

[ptomsu]

All these discussion and comparisons are nice, but in the end of the day I cannot get rid of the thought, that the more is written about these subjects, the more assurance to have done (bought) the right equipment is needed - sorry for that.

FOr me the H System is the best MF system on the market, this is my personal opinion and also thus my personal choice. And this puts itself together from the camera, the lenses, accessories, digital backs and SW. Which in the case of Hasselblad has reached the highest common quality - again my personal observation.

The S System is a great system, but it aims in a very different direction of high quality (resolution) photography. Robustness, usability, IQ etc are the strengths of this system. The immatureness of Leica in the area of MF cameras as well as the lack of lenses are the downsides of this systems - both will improve over time.

If I had to choose again a MF system today, I would choose the H system a second time. Would I love to also have a S2? Sure, but there are certain limits .....

BTW - what we all tend to forget here - 40MP are more than enough to also make the most demanding, dramatic and largest landscape prints - in far better quality than scanned from a 6x6 negative with a professional scanner. So for general demanding and high quality images 40MP are really enough. Sure, 60 or even 80 or in a year maybe 100MP will be even better. But who needs it? Waiting for the answers

 

[fotografz]

Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it. :thumbs:

What a dummy.

-Marc

 

[PeterA]

Marc - please keep climbing that learning curve and whilst you are at it KEEP A JOURNAL named "for Pete"

it should come in handy for me in a week or so...

 

[KurtKamka]

Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it. :thumbs:

What a dummy.

-Marc

It took me about two weeks to uncover that brilliant little feature by accident after holding one of the buttons for a few seconds. It makes a big difference in workflow. Your comment reminds me that I need to take the time to thoroughly read the manual ... who knows what else I'm missing out on by just jumping in with a quick skim-through.

 

[fotografz]

Marc - please keep climbing that learning curve and whilst you are at it KEEP A JOURNAL named "for Pete"

it should come in handy for me in a week or so...

Will do Pete!

Lots more to this sucker than I first thought. Pretty clever actually.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

It took me about two weeks to uncover that brilliant little feature by accident after holding one of the buttons for a few seconds. It makes a big difference in workflow. Your comment reminds me that I need to take the time to thoroughly read the manual ... who knows what else I'm missing out on by just jumping in with a quick skim-through.

Someone said the stop down button can be assigned a quick function also ... have to investigate that when I get the time.

Unless you find it first :ROTFL:

-Marc

 

[Mark Gowin]

Marc, you may want to consider viewing the Dale Photo and Digital video tutorials on the S2. David and Josh cover a lot of good information on the S2 - most of which you probably know by now, but you may still be able to pick up a tidbit here and there. Although the videos don't address the last firmware update, I still think every new or potential S2 user should watch them.

 

[Mark Gowin]

It is so quick and easy to reassign the function of the soft buttons that I often change one button from shoot to shoot depending on circumstances. I always use one button for ISO and another for Exposure Compensation. However, I find that I usually use the third button for Drive Mode (because selftimer also automatically initiates mirror lockup), but sometime change the button to Metering Mode. Oh and yes you can program the stop down button.

 

[dfarkas]

Marc, you may want to consider viewing the Dale Photo and Digital video tutorials on the S2. David and Josh cover a lot of good information on the S2 - most of which you probably know by now, but you may still be able to pick up a tidbit here and there. Although the videos don't address the last firmware update, I still think every new or potential S2 user should watch them.

You beat me to the punch Mark.

We're not huge fans of reading the manual, especially as the one for the S2 is not the clearest or most comprehensive source of information.

So, we made a video instruction manual that walks a user through each menu item. We even have a video just for setting and accessing custom functions.

Personally, I assign upper left to ISO, bottom left to Drive Mode, lower right to EV Comp and DOF button to Key Lock.

For Marc W, I'd suggest using the DOF button to access WB. A short tap on the DOF button will bring up the WB menu (no need to press and hold like the rear buttons). Scroll up (the menus roll over) to get to Manual WB, take a shot of your white/gray card and you're set to go.

David

 

[Mark Gowin]

...Personally, I assign upper left to ISO, bottom left to Drive Mode, lower right to EV Comp and DOF button to Key Lock...

That is my standard button configuration as well.

 

[David K]

I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...

 

[Mark Gowin]

... I know it's in the manual somewhere...

When zoomed in on an image, just click the wheel then scroll left/right using the wheel or up/down using a combination of the wheel plus upper left button. Click the wheel again to switch back to zoom mode.