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Thread: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

  1. #1
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    I want to thank everyone for the quick and thoughtful replies on a back up camera system in a previous thread, but now my question turns to Leica and the S2 model.

    For me this seems like an ideal camera, because of the large MFD sensor, battery, the weather and dust seals and the choice of using either focal plane shutters for speed or curtain shutters in the lens for high flash sync.
    Cleaning a Hasselblad is easy as the components are accessed quite readily. However, this convenience I think, leads to it's ability to "get dirty" more frequently. I do enjoy cleaning gear, just not as often. Weather sealing for me is a big deal and surprised there's not more on the Hasselblad. I have read some shoot with the H4D with no issues in weather, but I err on the side of caution. As for the Leica S2, i've read reports of noise at high ISO and a base of only 160. Also, with Leica you have to pay extra for better customer service that seems to be standard with Hasselblad.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Buy one of each and you won't have to worry about back-up.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Buy one of each and you won't have to worry about back-up.
    Great .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    The Hasselblad system is fantastic. The software extends the quality of the system. Truly. Try it out for yourself. The list of lenses are fantastic. To clean it, it literally takes less than a minute. I don't see what the big deal is.

    I've never tried the Leica, so i can't speak to it, but i notice things people are saying about it, and the lack of lenses and correcting software seem like killers for me. That and the price.

    .02

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Having to pay extra for customer service for a camera you paid over $20K for is bulls***
    Another thing to consider is almost every rental house in any city will be able to rent Hasselblad lenses to you should you need something you don't already own. With a Leica S2 ... good luck with that.

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Symbolphoto,

    Great points, I agree the Hasselblad is quick and easy to clean. I like being able to take the individual components apart.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    The Hasselblad is wonderful. perfect, complete system, reliable -BUT BIIIGGGG!

    The S system is still in its early evolution but what you get is a perfect camera, which outperforms many of the Hasselblad backs although it has only 37.5 MP. Why this? Because it has the better lenses and it is smaller and supports much more agile photography.

    If I would have no MF system today (I have Hasselblad) I would decide for the S2 and 2 or 3 lenses.

    If you really like latest and greatest innovation in MF digital then go for Phase! Nothing will top their technology advantage they have today.

    Well - no easy decision - I know!

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    This is the second time i heard someone say Leica's S2 lenses are better than Hasselblad. Where are people getting this from?

    Have you ever looked at a well composed photo using a Hassy 100 2.2 or 35-90 F4? The image quality is out of this world.. can the Leica really be that much better? And if so, where is the proof?

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    This is the second time i heard someone say Leica's S2 lenses are better than Hasselblad. Where are people getting this from?

    Have you ever looked at a well composed photo using a Hassy 100 2.2 or 35-90 F4? The image quality is out of this world.. can the Leica really be that much better? And if so, where is the proof?
    I use the Hassy 100 2.2 myself and also the 28. Great lenses indeed!

    IQ out of this world? Questionable! Rather top of the range on this world!

    I also used the Phase 28 and some other Phase glass on a Phase camera with a P45+, P65+ and P40+ and the IQ was same as the Hassy IQ!

    I used the S2 with 35 and 70 and I only can say that IQ is stunning - maybe not out of this world, but stunning! Try it yourself!

    Peter

    PS: not all my photos of course are well composed

    PS1: enough of my photos are pretty great looking nevertheless!

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    I will choose Leica S2 over Hasselblad 31mp or 22mp, but i will choose Hasselblad 39, 40, 50, 60 over S2 always.
    Tareq

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    I will choose Leica S2 over Hasselblad 31mp or 22mp, but i will choose Hasselblad 39, 40, 50, 60 over S2 always.
    While I understand that you would choose S2 over H 31 and 22, I cannot understand why you would prefer H39 over S2 ?????

    H40, 50 and 60 maybe, but I know people who had H50 and sold it after they tried the S2

    And I tried S2 myself and I am convinced it is at least equally good as my H39 and I could imagine it would be not distinguishable from a H50.

    What you get on benefits? The most advanced, completely designed MF digital system today, very fast, robust etc. BUT expensive

    I think it is all a matter of what you really need!

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    This is the second time i heard someone say Leica's S2 lenses are better than Hasselblad. Where are people getting this from?

    Have you ever looked at a well composed photo using a Hassy 100 2.2 or 35-90 F4? The image quality is out of this world.. can the Leica really be that much better? And if so, where is the proof?
    They may well be clinically better on charts and in the minds of others, but I've yet to see one single image that bears out that idea from all that I've looked at so far. And I keep looking, and looking, and looking. No Magic ... yet.

    So, who cares what others say, or don't say?

    Rather than taking exception ... take pictures

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    When you see Leica has dropped the R system, leaving customers on the pavement, you can think they could do it again with the S if they don't meet their expectations, and I guess they don't from what I read, they aren't many owners.
    Now who knows, selling a handful of items a month might be enough for them ? When you see the price, it could be.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    When you see Leica has dropped the R system, leaving customers on the pavement, you can think they could do it again with the S if they don't meet their expectations, and I guess they don't from what I read, they aren't many owners.
    Now who knows, selling a handful of items a month might be enough for them ? When you see the price, it could be.
    They have already sold a 4 figure number of Leica S2... not bad in 2010...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    They have already sold a 4 figure number of Leica S2... not bad in 2010...
    Where is that information published? Just curious. It'd also be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of who's buying the S2.

    But, I guess I wouldn't specifically doubt it ... it's a nice camera, and evidently there are still enough people with the price of entry, since none of this stuff is inexpensive to say the least.

    What seems to be a burr under the saddle, is the persistent Leica mind-set of yet to be realized image superiority from fans ... which was justified to some degree when it was Leica M and R verses the rest of the gang of 35MM cameras ... but MF is a whole other category of comparison verses some major, very sophisticated players and very versatile gear in the hands of some of the best photographers on the planet.

    I've seen the proof from Phase, from Leaf, and from Hasselblad ... still waiting on the S2.

    I see lots of fluffy bun, but where's the BEEF!


    -Marc

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    They may well be clinically better on charts and in the minds of others, but I've yet to see one single image that bears out that idea from all that I've looked at so far. And I keep looking, and looking, and looking. No Magic ... yet.

    So, who cares what others say, or don't say?
    Ok, good. I thought it was just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Rather than taking exception ... take pictures
    -Marc
    No exceptions, i just put this forum on different level vs. some of the other forums that have less experienced folk on it. And since PTOMSU has both systems, i'd love a side by side comparison. As you are in the perfect position to conduct such a test and the rest of us aren't. 100% crops plz.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    While I understand that you would choose S2 over H 31 and 22, I cannot understand why you would prefer H39 over S2 ?????

    H40, 50 and 60 maybe, but I know people who had H50 and sold it after they tried the S2

    And I tried S2 myself and I am convinced it is at least equally good as my H39 and I could imagine it would be not distinguishable from a H50.

    What you get on benefits? The most advanced, completely designed MF digital system today, very fast, robust etc. BUT expensive

    I think it is all a matter of what you really need!
    Because of higher MP even 1-2mp more!

    In fact i am most of the time going with more mp over something else, and that is why i went with H4D-60 from H3DII-39, and because S2 is new so that i will choose it over 22 and 31 which are some old models, but even 39 is old but it has more appealing over 22, 31 or even that S2, i saw shots of S2 and i feel it is more as 35mm DSLRs than a MF shots, but i know it is a great capable camera, but honestly speaking, i will prefer to go with a MF that is in the markets long time ago with more accessories and lenses than new MF system that want to be a competitive to another well known brands, will see how many S2 users will be in the future against Hassy and Phase One or Leaf.
    Tareq

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Ok, good. I thought it was just me.


    No exceptions, i just put this forum on different level vs. some of the other forums that have less experienced folk on it. And since PTOMSU has both systems, i'd love a side by side comparison. As you are in the perfect position to conduct such a test and the rest of us aren't. 100% crops plz.
    Why? Who cares?

    All these "current" MFD cameras, lenses and accessories are so good that the main limitation is usually the person using it.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Why? Who cares?

    All these "current" MFD cameras, lenses and accessories are so good that the main limitation is usually the person using it.

    -Marc
    I agree, i actually do just want to see the difference though. Doesn't impact myself or my shooting. More out of curiosity than anything else...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Why? Who cares?

    All these "current" MFD cameras, lenses and accessories are so good that the main limitation is usually the person using it.

    -Marc
    Thats what I just thought. I admit that I love the smooth rendering of some of my Rollei (Zeiss and Schneider) lenses but overall I admit that the IQ one sees from Hassy MF images and Mamiya/Phase Images looks all so good and Iwould expect the same from the new Leica lenses.

    If I had to decide between the systems (which I dont have to because I allready went the Hy6-way) I would rather look at factors like:
    -availability of lenses
    -speed and more important accurancy of AF
    -user interface of camera and software
    -reliability and service
    -size and handling
    -price and value
    -flexibility

    I personally doubt anybody could detect any practical IQ differences between those systems. Just my opinion.


    The S2 is smaller and lighter and weather sealed-but the lenses are the same size and bulk. How much do you really gain?

    As a hobby photographer who prints big but not that big I would wish for something else by the way:
    A 35mm full frame sensor with the character of a MF sensor: ccd, no AA, maybe not so great high ISO but great low ISO detail and tonality
    Something like the M9, but with the AF speed and accurancy of a Nikon D700/D3 camera. Give it 16MP or 24 if possible.
    The DMR was a little bit like that but I just didnt manage the manuel focus that well.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Thats what I just thought. I admit that I love the smooth rendering of some of my Rollei (Zeiss and Schneider) lenses but overall I admit that the IQ one sees from Hassy MF images and Mamiya/Phase Images looks all so good and Iwould expect the same from the new Leica lenses.

    If I had to decide between the systems (which I dont have to because I allready went the Hy6-way) I would rather look at factors like:
    -availability of lenses
    -speed and more important accurancy of AF
    -user interface of camera and software
    -reliability and service
    -size and handling
    -price and value
    -flexibility

    I personally doubt anybody could detect any practical IQ differences between those systems. Just my opinion.


    The S2 is smaller and lighter and weather sealed-but the lenses are the same size and bulk. How much do you really gain?

    As a hobby photographer who prints big but not that big I would wish for something else by the way:
    A 35mm full frame sensor with the character of a MF sensor: ccd, no AA, maybe not so great high ISO but great low ISO detail and tonality
    Something like the M9, but with the AF speed and accurancy of a Nikon D700/D3 camera. Give it 16MP or 24 if possible.
    The DMR was a little bit like that but I just didnt manage the manuel focus that well.
    Naturally, the makers of various MFD systems would have us believe their offering to be best, and I'm sure they personally believe that themselves, as they should. Users or fans will naturally gravitate to supporting their own personal decisions. But one only need scroll through all the images displayed here on just this forum, or to look at actual prints, or even who is using certain gear in the commercial or art world, to recognize how narrow the IQ chart really is.

    Specific features probably play a much bigger role than IQ for most experienced people. From all the posts on the S2, it appears the form factor is a main appeal, where with others it is the reason not to buy compared to the other more versatile modular forms of MFD machines. Oddly, my expectations of the S2's IQ was that of a larger DMR ... which for me it was not. Those IQ expectations where probably unrealistic because I was looking for a replacement for my 35mm gear not MFD ... so, even given the DMR/IQ disappointment I may have gotten the S2 had it performed better in other areas like AF, and if you could actually get the lenses needed.


    IMO, there are few folks that wouldn't be better off NOT buying yet another upgrade or MFD do-dad ... and spend the time and money getting better with what they have. For landscape inclined shooters, one of Jack and Guy's Workshops would pay more dividends than yet another lens or some $40K system swap. My pal Irakly Shanidze teachs workshops all over the world, and I'm dumbfounded at the creative transformation many of his students make no matter what camera they use. Simply amazing.


    BTW, RE; 35mm ... a lot of us have found the Sony A900 to be the closest thing to what you are longing for... but it's still CMOS. However, it seems to have a lot less filtration and more attention to the low to mid-level ISOs and tonality, so the ISO performance and look is more MFD like than NikCan. The Zeiss AF lenses help with the over-all usability, tonality, feel and personality. Beautiful color and character right out of the camera

    Marc

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Not sure i would argue one single point Marc. BTW I really am a sick person just bought a Sony 850 with 24-70 and looking at a 135 for backup and also PR stuff. In all truth I see no value whatsoever in upgrading my Phase P40+ and I print BIG and have big client needs. They only thing would be ergos on the back itself better LCD and such but you are correct the IQ is so damn close when you hit this level it really just comes down to software and preferences. The S2 is sweet for sure but right now i see no value in upgrading to it until everything is out and maybe even until a S3. Frankly if your already here stay put otherwise learn photography is a much better option. People walk away from these workshops with a holy **** attitude and actually learn something. I'm just not saying that either just ask anyone of them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    @ symbolphoto

    You should read posts more carefully before you claim something, right? I said I OWN the H3D39 and I TRIED the S2 - actually I would love to be able to own both, but this is kind of far away

    Nevertheless what I wrote are my personal opinions, nobody needs to feel offended using whatever MFD system. The one thing I do not do any longer is waste my time with comparison shots. If you get accustomed to a system and its lenses then you start seeing the differences to this standard without sophisticated comparisons. And just Pixel counting is the wrong way, we all know that. There are SO much more parameters, which actually weigh more than just the number of MPs.

    Is S2 MF or not - again this is subjective and for me it is because of substantially larger sensor compared to FF 35.

    But I will (need) to stay for a while with my Hassy anyway, independent if I like S2 more or not. The one thing I learned is that even for very demanding landscape photography 40MP are more than enough - even if you print very large. Watching a print from a distance more than 1m makes all these advantages of >40MP pretty much disappear. What counts more is a better (newer) sensor, which gives you more DR, better high ISO etc, like for example the P40+ or a sensor like in the S2, which is same generation (not same manufacturer).
    Last edited by ptomsu; 11th November 2010 at 01:53.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Not sure i would argue one single point Marc. BTW I really am a sick person just bought a Sony 850 with 24-70 and looking at a 135 for backup and also PR stuff. In all truth I see no value whatsoever in upgrading my Phase P40+ and I print BIG and have big client needs. They only thing would be ergos on the back itself better LCD and such but you are correct the IQ is so damn close when you hit this level it really just comes down to software and preferences. The S2 is sweet for sure but right now i see no value in upgrading to it until everything is out and maybe even until a S3. Frankly if your already here stay put otherwise learn photography is a much better option. People walk away from these workshops with a holy **** attitude and actually learn something. I'm just not saying that either just ask anyone of them.
    Another convert to Sony from the gear piggy himself Wait'll you bolt on that 135/1.8 Guy

    Seriously, if I were a landscape shooter I'd not only forego buying some lens, I'd sell one to go to one of Guy and Jack's workshops.

    Upgrade your work first, not your gear ... unless you have tons of money ... then do both

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    They paying you Marc?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Sony, Hasselblad, or Guy and Jack?

    None of the above Ben ... but one can only hope

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Lens cap on its way to you Marc!

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    @ symbolphoto

    You should read posts more carefully before you claim something, right? I said I OWN the H3D39 and I TRIED the S2 - actually I would love to be able to own both, but this is kind of far away

    Nevertheless what I wrote are my personal opinions, nobody needs to feel offended using whatever MFD system. The one thing I do not do any longer is waste my time with comparison shots. If you get accustomed to a system and its lenses then you start seeing the differences to this standard without sophisticated comparisons. And just Pixel counting is the wrong way, we all know that. There are SO much more parameters, which actually weigh more than just the number of MPs.

    Is S2 MF or not - again this is subjective and for me it is because of substantially larger sensor compared to FF 35.

    But I will (need) to stay for a while with my Hassy anyway, independent if I like S2 more or not. The one thing I learned is that even for very demanding landscape photography 40MP are more than enough - even if you print very large. Watching a print from a distance more than 1m makes all these advantages of >40MP pretty much disappear. What counts more is a better (newer) sensor, which gives you more DR, better high ISO etc, like for example the P40+ or a sensor like in the S2, which is same generation (not same manufacturer).
    I did assume you owned it because in my mind for someone to make a statement like that about the systems, they usually spend a decent amount of time with it.

    Oh i'm not offended at all. You can very well think the S2 is better than any other system out there. And you know what? - it may very well be.

    But, i was simply asking you to quantify how that is. I don't understand these claims of higher quality, as in - please explain to me why you feel that way as i don't see how they could be that much better.

    As much as i like this forum, people get in a tizzy pretty fast here....


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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    example the P40+ or a sensor like in the S2, which is same generation (not same manufacturer).
    Or H4D40 with better long exposure characteristics.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Lens cap on its way to you Marc!
    Hey Big Spender ... thanks a million ... which is about what I've spent on Hassey gear over my lifetime

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Ok ok.... Body cap too?

  32. #32
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    I did assume you owned it because in my mind for someone to make a statement like that about the systems, they usually spend a decent amount of time with it.

    Oh i'm not offended at all. You can very well think the S2 is better than any other system out there. And you know what? - it may very well be.

    But, i was simply asking you to quantify how that is. I don't understand these claims of higher quality, as in - please explain to me why you feel that way as i don't see how they could be that much better.

    As much as i like this forum, people get in a tizzy pretty fast here....

    Look,

    I am not a Leica fanboy, I am not even fighting or defending Leica, their products or the S2 specifically.

    Only thing I said is - I loved the look of the Leica images, they were rich, colorful, detailed etc etc. Some CA which is due to the Leica lens design, but that can be come over with the right SW tools. Just a personal feel.

    And it is tiny compared to the usual MFDB solutions.

    And meanwhile I am not alone with that opinion.

    Will I buy one? Probably no, as I am a happy camper in the H system. Which is perfect. But just not better as the S system but much heavier and bulky. But also for different focus groups.

    Think we stop that now, as I do not want this forum to come anywhere close to the LUF

    All the best

    Peter

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Or H4D40 with better long exposure characteristics.
    David, you are 100% right - I forgot to mention the H4D40, which I have seen so far is an excellent tool! This was NOT intentional

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Ok ok.... Body cap too?
    Thanks, but I'll have to decline. It would spoil my perfect record of never getting anything free from anyone.

    Now, if that body cap happened to be attached to a H4D/60 ... I could over-look my ridged scruples.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Wow,
    I feel like a substitute teacher that went out for a second and the whole class went berserk!
    That are some very valid points being made between these two models and I agree that there's no empirical data to substantiate various claims made on the S2, at least I have not read them yet. My interest in this camera (S2), is for various reasons, mostly weather resistance, battery, and reliability. I would agree that with the sensor technology in MFD, it's not easy telling the difference at base ISO between the two. I love the ability to completely disassemble the H4D/40 for cleaning. I hate that it always gets dirty. I love the lenses. I hate the battery. I love the IQ. I hate that there's no weather resistance. I love it's low light hand held shooting ability. I hate having to re-set
    it. I love Hasselblads customer service. I hate having to call them.

    I do love shooting with this camera (H4D), but if only there was more weather resistance and a better battery...That's why I wondered about the S2.

  36. #36
    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Wow,
    I feel like a substitute teacher that went out for a second and the whole class went berserk!
    Yah, this forum is rather 'touchy'.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    That are some very valid points being made between these two models and I agree that there's no empirical data to substantiate various claims made on the S2, at least I have not read them yet. My interest in this camera (S2), is for various reasons, mostly weather resistance, battery, and reliability. I would agree that with the sensor technology in MFD, it's not easy telling the difference at base ISO between the two. I love the ability to completely disassemble the H4D/40 for cleaning. I hate that it always gets dirty. I love the lenses. I hate the battery. I love the IQ. I hate that there's no weather resistance. I love it's low light hand held shooting ability. I hate having to re-set
    it. I love Hasselblads customer service. I hate having to call them.

    I do love shooting with this camera (H4D), but if only there was more weather resistance and a better battery...That's why I wondered about the S2.
    All valid points for sure. While i don't really need the weather sealing, the sensor does get dirty from time to time...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Wow,
    I feel like a substitute teacher that went out for a second and the whole class went berserk!
    That are some very valid points being made between these two models and I agree that there's no empirical data to substantiate various claims made on the S2, at least I have not read them yet. My interest in this camera (S2), is for various reasons, mostly weather resistance, battery, and reliability. I would agree that with the sensor technology in MFD, it's not easy telling the difference at base ISO between the two. I love the ability to completely disassemble the H4D/40 for cleaning. I hate that it always gets dirty. I love the lenses. I hate the battery. I love the IQ. I hate that there's no weather resistance. I love it's low light hand held shooting ability. I hate having to re-set
    it. I love Hasselblads customer service. I hate having to call them.

    I do love shooting with this camera (H4D), but if only there was more weather resistance and a better battery...That's why I wondered about the S2.
    We all come here to share our experiences and knowledge in the use of these sophisticated cameras. I personally couldn't care less what anyone chooses or doesn't choose. I learn a lot here, and share a lot here, and do NOT find it to be an overly "sensitive" forum at all ... but will share knowledge or opinions if I disagree or have another perspective.

    Based on experience:

    Dust will eventually get on the sensor of any digital camera with a removable lens unless you only use it in a computer clean room or never remove the lens ... including the S2. People who shoot a fully weather sealed Canon 1 series pro camera also have to clean the sensor from time to time. The weather sealing of the S2 has other major advantages for certain types of shooting, but a spotless sensor isn't one of them.

    The H battery is no different from any other Lithium battery. Reseting the battery fuel gauge is usually attributable to not conditioning the battery per instructions in the manual ... which people tend to not read, and then wonder why something doesn't work the way they want ... been there, done that myself .

    I noted the procedure to reset the H battery fuel gauge in my post above. It takes all of 5 seconds, and once done shouldn't be needed again ... IF you follow the directions in the manual and deplete the battery fully a couple of times a year and then fully recharge it for 12 hours. I rarely, if ever, need my second H battery during a shoot.

    Plus, we have to remember that the H camera uses one battery to drive both the camera and the back as opposed to the need for two separate battery supplies on other MFD modular cameras.

    If you do long sessions in the studio with the camera on for long periods of time using lots of the energy draining features, I recommend the AC H power grip. I also like it because I always have a powered camera for impromptu shoots without having to worry if I have a fully charged-up battery at the ready all of the time.

    If you repeatedly have to re-set anything else on the camera, then something is wrong and your Hasselblad dealer should be consulted.

    That's the info based on actually using this stuff for a long time, take it or leave it.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Where is that information published?
    In the official publication "Leica Courrier" no. 89 in Switzerland...

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    They may respond better to free eye cups ;-)

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    @ Mark

    fully agree with your comments on battery and H system! This is actually a major design advantage over the other market leader in MFDB.

    Having said that - the S2 battery performs even better - but this is a newly designed camera.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    @ Johnny.. and Symbolphoto

    I like this forum because I got (and continue getting) a lot of information out here by good discussions and not wasting time with useless debates. If someone does not believe in what is said here, then simply leave it alone and go either to another thread or another forum!

    I owe this forum here so many good information, tips and discussions and I definitely want o keep that as it is!

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    In the official publication "Leica Courrier" no. 89 in Switzerland...
    Switzerland ... that'd be why I didn't see it ...

    Thanks, hope Leica continues to do well ... I need them to stay in business for my M10 and 28/1.4 ASP

    -Marc

  43. #43
    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Thanks, hope Leica continues to do well ... I need them to stay in business for my M10 and 28/1.4 ASP

    -Marc
    And i need them to stay in business to buy a used M9 after the M10 comes out.

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    @ Mark

    fully agree with your comments on battery and H system! This is actually a major design advantage over the other market leader in MFDB.

    Having said that - the S2 battery performs even better - but this is a newly designed camera.
    To quantify the battery performance in the S2:

    Typical battery life is about 2,000 shots, including chimping and having the camera powered on all the time. With a second battery in the vertical grip, battery life is about 4,000 to 5,000 shots.

    I was in the Smoky Mountains two weeks ago, shooting with the S2 (no grip/2nd battery). I shot from sunrise to sunset, with temperatures dipping done into the 20's (F) and shooting a lot of long multi-second exposures with ND filters (waterfalls). My battery level never dipped below 50% on any given day of shooting.

    The battery life is very good.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    To quantify the battery performance in the S2:

    Typical battery life is about 2,000 shots, including chimping and having the camera powered on all the time. With a second battery in the vertical grip, battery life is about 4,000 to 5,000 shots.

    I was in the Smoky Mountains two weeks ago, shooting with the S2 (no grip/2nd battery). I shot from sunrise to sunset, with temperatures dipping done into the 20's (F) and shooting a lot of long multi-second exposures with ND filters (waterfalls). My battery level never dipped below 50% on any given day of shooting.

    The battery life is very good.

    David
    I knew it would be substantially better, but I had no idea it was so much! Wow!!!

  46. #46
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Marc (fotografz),

    I should have been more precise when referring to a battery re-set. I'm not talking about the charging aspect, but having to remove the battery when the camera freezes up. Several times I've had to do this when for example, I want to change priorities or ISO settings. Although, the battery in my Canon 1Ds mkII, would go approx. 2000,(two thousand), captures before needing a charge. Yes, I've read the manuals and everything else related to the H4D prior to use, but still only get around 200 captures per charge. 95 %, of my shooting is done outdoors, everything from hiking into canyons, skiing and high altitude; even though the ambient outdoor temp. is always within the H4D's temp range. I'm thinking of buying a third battery to make sure.
    I know dust gets on a sensor no matter what you shoot, the nature of electrical conduction almost guarantees this. One should always power down the camera before changing lenses! Proper grounding is essential, I always touch the metal case on my Mac, or even a metal screw on a switch plate prior to working with the camera. Studio shooting is pretty straight forward, you don't have to scramble for the best light and weather and battery performance are not factors. I like weather photography and the most dramatic images are usually when it's not dry. Obviously, no one should shoot unless the gear is protected, but light precipitation or gentle spray from a waterfall should not be a concern with a weather sealed camera. My first H4D, had to be replaced because of a piece of solder or spring came loose. Combine that with numerous camera resets and a less than stellar battery performance... That said, the IQ, is outstanding, the fact that i've cropped images with an 80mm to look like i used a zoom is impressive! Hasselblads glass is impressive. Their customer service is the best in the business, they want you to be satisfied. This is a fantastic camera that produces outstanding images! I think the Leica S2 needs more time to work out the kinks, but I will be interested in actual user reports from the field. Does anyone produce an affordable weather housing for the H4D?

  47. #47
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    I read this with a chuckle in my belly. I have been a Pro for 35 years and counting and the real definition of a working Pro is simply this. Every shot you take every situation you are in no matter what is on the line or the simplest thing in the world to shoot are two very basic principles. Better write this down and remember it One is your job is to solve a issue or a situation Two there is ALWAYS a workaround. Once you master both of these you have the world eating out of your hands. Basically it comes down to this your thrown in a bull pen One you have to figure out your best way out and two you will find something to get your *** over the fence quickly. If you can't coordinate those two than your dinner. Same with the BUSINESS of Photography.

    Which exactly leads me to this , need more battery life buy more batteries need weather sealing do what everyone on the planet does in the video business and sports business get a freaking cover. Or if your a cheap skate get a 2 gallon zip lock bag.

    Find a solution. Now you all know I am busting your chops here because I love you all so much and it's my sick sense of Friday humor but bury those two points in your head you will go far with them. You need to be a MacGuyver and a Swiss Army Knife.

    Just a FYI. I have one and live in the Desert go figure
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    If you really like latest and greatest innovation in MF digital then go for Phase! Nothing will top their technology advantage they have today.
    I'm not disputing this comment but I'm interested in why you say this. I don't currently have a MF system but when doing research it seems on paper that Hasselblad currently have the more innovative product, i.e. they have True Focus, an integrated system (one battery for body and back etc,) and accessories like the HTS. They also now have a 60mpx back with, I believe, a higher resolution screen than the P65+. Again, I'm not disputing your claim, I'm just interested in why most people say Phase have a technology advantage. Is it that they release upgraded products more frequently?

  49. #49
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    two very basic principles. Better write this down and remember it One is your job is to solve a issue or a situation Two there is ALWAYS a workaround. Once you master both of these you have the world eating out of your hands.
    Hi Guy
    you arrange the group shots in the lovely gravel sweep outside the house - you know there'll be just a bit of light left - you set bollards to make sure that nobody parks there . . . . . . The wedding is late . .. when you get back to the house it's pissing down with rain, and absolutely dark. . and someone moved the bollards, and there are 4 BMW's and 3 Mercedes in the sweep.

    . . . . . .. . there is ALWAYS a workaround

    But . . . truth to tell, I'm identifying with your rules (oh Yes!). But these rules apply to ALL business situations (at least, they apply to all the ones I'm involved in).

    But I have no rights to be here . . . I don't believe I've even TOUCHED a Hassleblad!
    Last edited by jonoslack; 12th November 2010 at 13:16.

    Just this guy you know

  50. #50
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

    LOL you are in your house my friend and can go in any room you want. There is always a chair for you. LOL

    BTW I agree it does apply to all business.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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