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Thread: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

  1. #51
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    So , what is a professional camera ? ? ?
    A camera being used by a professional?

    Just this guy you know

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post

    So , what is a professional camera ? ? ?
    .
    Mandatory traditional answer: "The one on a tripod."

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Oh man I just reread my original post and it sounds so pretentious. Sorry about that...

    Just wanted to mention that there should be no shame at all if Leica built a camera that will mostly only sell to enthusiasts. My cousin owns a small recording studio, and I'm acquainted with a custom guitar and power amp builder based in Los Angeles. He's similar in age to me and we share a lot of the same interests in music. Anyhow, I was impressed when first talking to him and finding out that he builds custom amps for several musicians that I like.... But he kind of sighed and said something like, "Well, those guys are great for knocking the gear around and using it in ways that we'd never dream about, and they have great ideas for features, but our real bread and butter is selling to the hobbyists that have disposable income and only play on the weekends. The famous musicians don't want to spend money or they just don't have any to spend." SO ever since that conversation, I've kinda understood how the business around high end gear works. The pros knock it around and give it legitimacy but the enthusiasts are the ones that finance it's creation with their disposable income.

    Thank GOD for the enthusiasts!

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    .... The pros knock it around and give it legitimacy but the enthusiasts are the ones that finance it's creation with their disposable income.
    Which is why Canon makes its gear so visible at popular events like the Super Bowl: so the enthusiasts will see the sports photographers using it.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I should add that the same applies to the Pentax 645D.
    Pentax are not spinning the story that theirs is a serious pro tool. Leica is.
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post

    I rarely mention the camera I use because of the widespread attitude that it's a rich wanna-be photographer's bauble, but when I show prints to gallery owners their eyes bug out, their jaw drops to the floor and for a few minutes they're speechless. Once they can speak again the first few things they say are remarks about the detail and color quality, then inevitably "What camera are you using?" I'd rather put up with the "EWWWW" attitude than give up the print quality I've been getting.
    I gather from this that you are talking 35mm format. If this is the case, then you are absolutely right. Leica's "build the best (optically)and the buyers will come" attitude has earned them the reputation they have.
    However, in MF land, we already have Hasselblad and PhaseOne producing camera/back/lens ranges with phenomenal standards. If the Hy6 does a phoenix act and rises from the ashes, the game gets even tougher. If you wanna play in this league it's "go hard, or go home", so a sub-40 MP sensor with three lenses is a bit of a whimper.
    I'd hazard a guess that the guy who takes a print from an S2 to a gallery that
    has been receiving prints from someone shooting on a P65+ or HD-60 or soon on the AptusII 12, is not going to get the same response as you did.
    Only time will tell...
    Siebel
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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I rarely mention the camera I use because of the widespread attitude that it's a rich wanna-be photographer's bauble, but when I show prints to gallery owners their eyes bug out, their jaw drops to the floor and for a few minutes they're speechless. Once they can speak again the first few things they say are remarks about the detail and color quality, then inevitably "What camera are you using?"...
    Has it crossed your mind that they're looking at the wrong thing?

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    The camera has to be able to do all I want to do with it and offer me an opportunity to also provide some sort of differentiation from everything else that everyone else is shooting.
    Good luck with that.

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    I'd hazard a guess that the guy who takes a print from an S2 to a gallery that has been receiving prints from someone shooting on a P65+ or HD-60 or soon on the AptusII 12, is not going to get the same response as you did. Only time will tell...
    IMHO the S2's advantage is (or, will be once the system is more complete) is the different working style it allows vs the Phase & Hasselblad competitors. I agree the image quality standards of medium-format digital cameras are uniformly high. Getting back to the original subject of this thread I see the lens adapters as a quick low-cost (low development cost) way to expand the system versatility while developing a more extensive lens and accessory lineup.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Life was simpler when:

    -real photogs did 4x5. Super real did 8x10.
    - those of us who wannabe did 6x6 (I'm in that crowd).
    - and everyone else did 35 mm - and hopefully got the good moment - with mostly Leica, sometimes the new kids (Nikon).

    Take this as just a bit of levity in the hunt for simplicity.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Good luck with that.

    Keith, it is a rather quixotic quest, isn't it?

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Keith, it is a rather quixotic quest, isn't it?
    Indeed.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Before I photographed Mamyia AFD III/Leaf 65s with lens Hasselblad Zeiss Distagon 4/40 CFE IF (last model) It's my best lens for landscape photography.
    I do not see a reason that I have not used this lens on the S2

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Mandatory traditional answer: "The one on a tripod."

    Aaaaaah . . . .
    Here is my professional camera please show yours .
    Attachment 38499

    I am sure , there are many others around .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    And it's on a Cube no less, it has to be good than. LOL

    Funny I get that all the time with my Phase gear because most folks never see this type of gear. First comment always is it must take great pictures looking like that. You can guess my reply. LOL

    Actually I am very nice about it but you know what I am thinking.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    The arguments are the same, but as a H4D shooter, reliability should be considered more important. What difference does it make if the camera doesn't capture the essence of that moment? The sensor used in the S2 was released in 2008 by Kodak and both older H3D/50, and M8 use more or less the same 6.0 micron full frame CCD. I'm sure there will be many galleries full of S2 prints soon because they look great! Keith, your a snob who for whatever reason has decided against the S2, no matter what. People have said the high ISO is not great, but I say the faster lenses should help with that. Firmware updates will probably address more issues as the camera's strong and weak points are brought to light. It's the MFD shooters who want to just play indoors with their tethered cameras and not really add to the debate. I say the photographers who go out on safari's and repel off of a cliff or ride class 5 rapids or riding horseback through hours of mud... those are the ones who really know about cameras, then they hose off the S2's and give it to the wedding guys!

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Has it crossed your mind that they're looking at the wrong thing?
    How do I say this politely...? They're looking at the entire package, Keith. technical and aesthetic. One told me flat-out he wasn't interested in wildlife photos but I got the best reaction out of him and a solo show coming up in a few months

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    However, in MF land, we already have Hasselblad and PhaseOne producing camera/back/lens ranges with phenomenal standards.
    .
    Backs & lenses certainly.

    Even as a Phase DF & AFD II owner myself I don't think I'd rate the camera bodies as anything much better than merely ok - a long way behind my Nikon DSLRs in build, functionality and handling IMHO (Canons & Sony no doubt also). Hasselblad I'd certainly give more of a nod towards modernity and advanced functionality but not the Mamiya/Phase One bodies. AF abilities? Downright prehistoric ...

    If the S2 can give Phase One/Mamiya a boot up the rear to raise their camera game then I'm all in favor of it!

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    How do I say this politely...? They're looking at the entire package, Keith. technical and aesthetic. One told me flat-out he wasn't interested in wildlife photos but I got the best reaction out of him and a solo show coming up in a few months
    Pleased to hear it, Doug, I think

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    A camera being used by a professional?
    This
    -bob

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    But a camera being used by a professional what?

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    But a camera being used by a professional what?
    There are many kinds of photography, and many ways to make money with photography. I'm not qualified to judge other's use of a camera, only my own.

  23. #73
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    There are many kinds of photography, and many ways to make money with photography.
    Agreed.

    There again spending £30,000 on a camera and four lenses doesn't make it any easier.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Here's a thoughtful essay relevant to the discussion:

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es..._cameras.shtml

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Doug, there can't be many if any other nature photographers trying to make real money with an S2. I wish you the best of luck.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    But a camera being used by a professional what?
    Simplicity is it's own reward.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Doug, there can't be many if any other nature photographers trying to make real money with an S2. I wish you the best of luck.
    Nothing like being the first - Probably the S2 would make a wonderful camera for door photography too? (don't suppose there are many of those about either). It's certainly one of the things I've been considering it for.

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    I'm not using the S2 (among other reasons there are no native lenses long enough yet). If/when the time and $$$ comes when I can consider replacing the DMR I'll give the S2 a very thorough test and compare it with other candidate tools before spending the money.

    My tests will include not only the equipment but also my technique and my typical subjects' response to the equipment. There's no point considering a larger-format camera if my technique can't take advantage of its performance or if my subjects are freaked out by the larger lenses. The S2 is on my (hypothetical) short list because the body hits a bullseye for everything on my checklist:

    larger sensor
    outstanding viewfinder for manual focus
    weather sealed
    excellent no-frills ergonomic design

    and as Mark Dubovoy mentioned, the bokeh of the Leica S2 lenses is drop dead gorgeous - that's a very big deal for my photos. I'm also watching the user reviews of the Pentax 654D as they become available.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Keith,

    I'm not understanding your argument against the S2 other than price differentials. Don't misunderstand me, saving money is important, but people are shooting landscapes and nature with H4D/60's, and there somewhat pricer than an S2. I shoot an H4D, and have loathed the dismal battery performance and lack of weather resistance and constant need to clean and re-set. I would never take this camera, (H4D), on a remote back country landscape shoot. The H4D and S2, pretty much share the same sensor, so it comes down to the resolving power of a lens. Which by the way, the S2 has much faster lenses! Personally, I like to find locations that are remote and rugged. Some of the best nature photographs are in adverse conditions. If i'm shooting behind a waterfall and I've hiked to get there, I'll factor that into the price. And if the camera gets covered in spray or droplets, I won't be concerned because it's an S2. I can't do that with an H4D. People tend to pay more for images that have that "wow!" factor. Something to consider is that the S2 is warranted against certain water damage.

  30. #80
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Probably the S2 would make a wonderful camera for door photography too?
    Possibly*, unless you need to make money**

    *when Leica release a super-wide lens

    **perhaps you don't need to

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Possibly*, unless you need to make money**

    *when Leica release a super-wide lens

    **perhaps you don't need to
    Well, that would depend on how much you charge for them?
    Me? need to make money?

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I'm not using the S2 (among other reasons there are no native lenses long enough yet.
    "This allows the animal to relax and often allows the use of shorter lenses than is customary for wildlife photography which in turn allows in the photograph a sense of the animal's preferred habitat."

    Doug, I asumed from the above that you were already using the S2; my mistake.

    My problem with the S2 as a system for nature photography would be how much money I'd have to make just to break even.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    I'm not understanding your argument against the S2 other than price differentials. Don't misunderstand me, saving money is important, but people are shooting landscapes and nature with H4D/60's, and there somewhat pricer than an S2.
    How many of those shooting landscape/nature with the S2 or Hasselblad or Phase are making a profit? My argument is not the price differentials between these cameras, they're all way too expensive.

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    How many of those shooting landscape/nature with the S2 or Hasselblad or Phase are making a profit? My argument is not the price differentials between these cameras, they're all way too expensive.
    I think we can all agree about that!
    What do you shoot with incidentally?

    p.s. I enjoyed your website

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    My problem with the S2 as a system for nature photography would be how much money I'd have to make just to break even.
    Yes that can be formidable barrier.
    Last edited by doug; 20th December 2010 at 14:18.

  36. #86
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think we can all agree about that!
    What do you shoot with incidentally?
    I used nothing more sophisticated than a pair of Nikon FEs for the best part of 15 years, shot most of my stock with them. I then moved to the Hasselblad V Series for about 12 years and used them for my nature/landscape work. I bought a used Hasselblad H3D11-22 last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    p.s. I enjoyed your website
    And I yours!

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    Re: Leica To Sell Lens Adapters - Pentax, Hassy and Mamiya on S2

    Keith,
    I agree the prices are high for MFD. Right after my H4D purchase, Hasselblad dropped the price and then paired them with a lens choice, including the 35 - 90mm! Since shooting MFD, I seem to compose more artistically, perhaps because of the battery performance. A photographer named Elizabeth Carmel shoots amazing landscapes with a MFD and has quite a business as a result.

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