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Thread: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

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    Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    I am in the process of buying a H1 with 80 f2.8 and P30+ back. Is there much of a difference between this hassey and Canon 5D MK2 with Good Glass?
    Thank you, rollsman

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    For IQ..It's not even close. H1/P30+. The Canon is a joke in comparison...at low ISO.

    If you want to shoot in less controlled lighting at high ISO. The Canon.

    I outta know... because I have both.

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    I am on a budget( $6000) Can you recommend a system with a digital back for this amout and still be better then the Canon 5D MK2? I see the Mamiya 645AFD is reasonable but not sure how much the DB will cost me and which one to get for my budget. Thank you very much, rollsman

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Well that depends on what you are going to be shooting with it.

    I have gone through almost every medium format platform until I found one that meets my needs. I shoot primarily in studio usually on tripod ... beauty and fashion editorial.

    This is my list:
    1. Mamiya AFDII .. my first medium format camera. Terrible viewfinder. To view the LCD you have to tilt the angle that you have your eye or it is partially cut off. I once looked at an AFDIII
    and was horrified that the problem was not corrected in the new model.
    -SLR-like... if that's what you like.
    -pokey autofocus
    -dirt cheap lenses(good)
    I didn't like the way it handled... sold.

    2. Mamiya RZ67II
    - verrry nice viewfinder... bright!
    -cheap good lenses
    - HUGE... which was it's downfall for me. I like to
    shoot handheld sometimes. Not possible for me.
    2. Hasselblad H2
    - biggest brightest viewfinder in an SLR style MF.
    -completely modular. Loved that.
    -very very nice handling
    -all rental shops have usually have lenses
    I sold it because I afford to get more lenses. Most go
    for 3K a pop. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't sold it.

    My current MF is a Hasselblad 553ELX with a Phase One P30
    I bought the ELX off ebay for about $300 ... in new condition from a guy that looked like he bought it and stuck in his closet most of the time.
    I bought the Phase from the For Sale section on Luminous Landscape. I went in person to inspect it and do some test shots with it.
    Phase One let's you buy a warranty on old backs for about $1000 for a year. It takes 30 days to take effect after purchasing.

    There are good deals to be had on MFD backs. You just have to be patient and a little lucky.

    It took me the better part of 3 months to find my back. I would never buy a digital back without either trying it out... or from a dealer... period. It's a lot of money.

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I am in the process of buying a H1 with 80 f2.8 and P30+ back. Is there much of a difference between this hassey and Canon 5D MK2 with Good Glass?
    Yes there is a difference. The question is can you realize those gains at your intended output. Does the difference THEN matter to you?

  6. #6
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I am on a budget( $6000) Can you recommend a system with a digital back for this amout and still be better then the Canon 5D MK2? I see the Mamiya 645AFD is reasonable but not sure how much the DB will cost me and which one to get for my budget. Thank you very much, rollsman
    This is a slippery slope that I've been navigating for years...

    my conclusion: you can't shop MF digital on price alone. You can shop bodies and lenses and stuff (somewhat) on price, but the back HAS to be tested and bought in accordance with function and output. It's why I never have enough money to buy... I shoot handheld a bit and need a back with a decent ISO 400-800 (only occasionally). That rules out everything "cheap"... a la sub $8K used. And I only need 22mp.

    Used prices
    Kodak 16mp $2-3K ISO 100-ish
    ZDb $2-3K... nope ISO 100-ish, max.
    Aptus 22 $4K-ish ... iso 50-100-ish
    P25 $5K-ish ... iso 200 ish ususally

    Sinar... similar... Hassie CF similar. Both usually more pricey.

    Add the camera/lenses and you have more than $6K that you can't hand hold. So... if you're comparing the 5Dii (which I shoot) and the MF, you HAVE to take max iso immediately into consideration IF you are intending to use them similarly in a hand held manner. If not? Have fun... the p30 is gonna smoke the 5dii.

    Hell, the sony a900 will smoke a 5dii.

    In my budget... I've kind of settled on forgoing better high ISO and going for a RZ low-iso system that will be tripod mounted and just keeping a 35mm system for when I need to hand hold at higher ISO. Later, when I'm rich (), I'll buy a hand held system (h4 or df).

    Good Luck,
    Shelby

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Are you looking in adding a MF system to your current one or just a full replacement?

    If you are considering a replacement, my suggestion is to first try it out before you make that decision.

    As much as I like my AFD II, I would never shoot a full wedding with it. It is very limiting (speed, high ISO, file size, comfort ...). Obviously, everybody's style of shooting is different, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money without doing some testing first.

    If this would have been for commercial/fashion/portrait type work, then I would have said to go ahead. Weddings it's a different matter.

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Still we don't know what are you looking for with MF, using it in what? I have several Canon DSLRs and i have one MF digital and few film MF, i will never use any MF for everything, i shoot sports and landscapes and portraits, if i need action and fast AF and higher ISO then Canon is my choice, if i have lighting control/studio/fashion/commercial then MF is my choice, as they always say, "Horses for courses".
    Tareq

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    As much as I like my AFD II, I would never shoot a full wedding with it. It is very limiting (speed, high ISO, file size, comfort ...). ....
    Looking at the recent favorite portrait film thread reminds me that it really wasn't that long ago, that I was shooting weddings with a Mamiya 645AF and 645AFD with Portra and did just fine. Obviously the latest Mamiya/Phase bodies are much better and more capable yet with MFDBs (flexibility changing iso with a button instead of a filmback) It just goes to show you how far tech has come along, making the top-tier DSLRs the better choice for weddings and movement, and producing better wedding images than their film counterparts. DSLRs are just easier for weddings.

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Looking at the recent favorite portrait film thread reminds me that it really wasn't that long ago, that I was shooting weddings with a Mamiya 645AF and 645AFD with Portra and did just fine. Obviously the latest Mamiya/Phase bodies are much better and more capable yet with MFDBs (flexibility changing iso with a button instead of a filmback) It just goes to show you how far tech has come along, making the top-tier DSLRs the better choice for weddings and movement, and producing better wedding images than their film counterparts. DSLRs are just easier for weddings.
    Good points.

    In the past when shooting film with MF, you were probably shooting far fewer shots than current wedding photographers shoot with dSLR which made it a little more manageable.

    Considering current dSLR's offer resolution equal to or better than MF film, much faster capture rates, better autofocus, and much better high ISO noise performance than MFDB, and seeing how wedding shooters now tend to shoot hundreds (thousands) of images, dSLR seems the only logical choice when shooting weddings.
    wayne
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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I am on a budget( $6000) Can you recommend a system with a digital back for this amout and still be better then the Canon 5D MK2? I see the Mamiya 645AFD is reasonable but not sure how much the DB will cost me and which one to get for my budget. Thank you very much, rollsman
    In your initial post you said you were in the process of buying a H1 and P30+ ... in this post you say you are looking for a $6,000 kit, and considering a Mamiya 645 and some less expensive back.

    Which is it?

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Good points.

    In the past when shooting film with MF, you were probably shooting far fewer shots than current wedding photographers shoot with dSLR which made it a little more manageable.

    Considering current dSLR's offer resolution equal to or better than MF film, much faster capture rates, better autofocus, and much better high ISO noise performance than MFDB, and seeing how wedding shooters now tend to shoot hundreds (thousands) of images, dSLR seems the only logical choice when shooting weddings.
    Logical if you want to compete with 100,000 housewives with Digital Rebels that shoot 2,000 images per wedding and employ zero editing skills ... all at minimum wage rates.

    It's a Mac Donald's mentality where quantity has replaced quality. Super-size me is the watchword of the day.

    I liked Jeff Ascough's answer when asked how many images he provides ... around 200. "That's not very many, others give a lot more" ... at which point Jeff scatters 200 proofs on the floor ... end of conversation. (Yes, he shoots more than 200, but he edits well, and yes he currently uses a DSLR ... mostly on manual if I recall correctly).

    What clients do with 1,000+ photos mystifies me ... they NEVER use them all. They just think they want them.

    So, with one of the more modern MFD cameras it's not unreasonable to say that a majority (or at least half of the typical wedding could be shot with one) ... the results are quite stunning ... and in my experience tend to be the more ordered images for prints and album.

    Also, I recently reviewed my samples and realized that 90% + of my portrait jobs were done with MFD ... 8% with a Leica M, and the rest with a DSLR (all of which are older images before I had my current MFD H kit). I've sold way more prints in larger sizes with MFD than I used to with 35mm ... especially environmental type portraits. Clients see them on the 30" screen and gasp at the quality and are an easy sell for a large wall print ... that's the kind of super-Size" that makes more sense for the working photographer ($$$$$$).

    I've moved to a 20" X 20" album for premium wedding clients recently ... and even the Lab folks are blown away by the full spread 20 X 20 MFD images ... these are selling like hot cakes and are helping me survive in the poor economy.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    is there a IQ difference ? Yes. Would it be enough for me to justify the P30? certainly not. Would my clients need more than a 5DMk2 ? NO, would I want more for my personal work ? YES

    It depends on what you need and want. For me and larger prints the advantages IQ wise from a P30 just ins't enough, especially if I think how great a 5D handles and how bad any medium format compares.

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    I want to explain my original thread: I want to get a MF with a DB for appr $6000. I will only be using it for my portraits and groups and some other wedding shots, I will use my Other Canon 5D for the majority of the work. It does not matter which system I get as long as its IQ is very good and in my budget. thanks, rollsman

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Logical if you want to compete with 100,000 housewives with Digital Rebels that shoot 2,000 images per wedding and employ zero editing skills ... all at minimum wage rates.

    It's a Mac Donald's mentality where quantity has replaced quality. Super-size me is the watchword of the day.

    I liked Jeff Ascough's answer when asked how many images he provides ... around 200. "That's not very many, others give a lot more" ... at which point Jeff scatters 200 proofs on the floor ... end of conversation. (Yes, he shoots more than 200, but he edits well, and yes he currently uses a DSLR ... mostly on manual if I recall correctly).

    What clients do with 1,000+ photos mystifies me ... they NEVER use them all. They just think they want them.
    Amen, we hardly ever deliver more than 350. We usually average 300, and that's it. How can someone want more? I don't get it...

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I want to explain my original thread: I want to get a MF with a DB for appr $6000. I will only be using it for my portraits and groups and some other wedding shots, I will use my Other Canon 5D for the majority of the work. It does not matter which system I get as long as its IQ is very good and in my budget. thanks, rollsman
    I think if you can expand your MFDB budget by $2K more you'd be a lot happier. Seriously. $8K puts you in Phase P30 territory---ideal for portraits, groups, et al. Lotsa bang for the buck.

    ken

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I want to explain my original thread: I want to get a MF with a DB for appr $6000. I will only be using it for my portraits and groups and some other wedding shots, I will use my Other Canon 5D for the majority of the work. It does not matter which system I get as long as its IQ is very good and in my budget. thanks, rollsman
    Okay, given those restrictions and specific applications I'd highly recommend a simple solution which I've actually used for weddings and portraits while also using a Canon 5D as my DSLR ... and can therefore endorse it based on direct experience.

    A Hasselblad 503CW, a few select Zeiss manual focus optics, with Hasselblad CFV digital back. While only 16 meg, the sensor is still larger than the Canon's, is 16 bit CCD capture, and the 503CW will provide a higher full sync speed over the 5D because the Zeiss lenses are leaf shutter. Any C, CF or CFE Zeiss lens all the way back to the 1950s will work on the camera. Plus, if the film bug bites you, or you want to use the full 6X6 capture area, the camera takes film backs easily found most anywhere. Portra 160NC properly scanned will bark with the big dog digital backs for wedding applications ... I know this because I have a big dog digital back.

    For many CFV users, this was a "magical" combination with a "fat" 9 micron pixel capture and Zeiss optics that produces colors, depth, and crispness the Canon is not capable of. It is the only digital back that works on the Hassey V cameras without the sync cord from lens to back. As you build the system, you have options to upgrade to a 39 or 50 meg CFV back in future.

    The trick will be to find the 503CW/CFV combo with a basic lens for $6,000. but in today's market it seems a possibility if you search with patience.

    Here are a few of my words and pictures (including a few "Hindu" wedding shots) that Hasselblad published on their "Planet V" website:

    http://www.hasselblad.com/planet-v/w...-williams.aspx

    While there are other more expensive solutions, this is one I know works based on your criteria. Happy hunting!

    -Marc

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    tetsrfun
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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    A Hasselblad 503CW, a few select Zeiss manual focus optics, with Hasselblad CFV digital back.
    ********
    Add the winder, PM-45 prism and monopod and it offers the best ergonomics of the "V" series for "hand-held" use.

    Steve

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    Re: Hassey H1 or Canon 5D MK2 For Best IQ

    I'm still use 500EL/M with H20 back, and yes, it is better than new 5d2.

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