Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 82 of 82

Thread: Pentax 645D vs S2

  1. #51
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Well it's a very interesting topic actually . Most of us grew up in the 3:2 world but since shooting MF 4:3 i have grown to love this format framing and I simple do NOT crop almost never with this system. 4:3 matches my vision best and when i have to shoot 3:2 with my Sony I can feel the struggle to shoot 3:2 again. When I did the S2 review and Phase kit your working with both at the same time and it is very strange to do that but I did prefer the 4:3rds every time. The S2 would be a adjustment just like when i shoot the Sony it is a mental adjustment. I don't really like it but I have been shooting so long that you mentally find ways around it. I wish my Sony was 4:3 rds to be honest.
    With this system I will crop and I hate to crop ever.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well it's a very interesting topic actually . Most of us grew up in the 3:2 world but since shooting MF 4:3 i have grown to love this format framing and I simple do NOT crop almost never with this system.
    I was never comfortable with 3:2 and fell in love with square when I bought a used Minolta Autocord TLR way back when. I proceeded to shoot square almost exclusively until I discovered view cameras and then I slowly learned to work with the 4:5 format. But when I bought my first "serious" digital camera in late 2006 (a Panasonic DMC-L1, btw, because I was taken in by its old-school controls, such as the aperture ring on the lens!), I immediately fell for the 4:3 format and, like you, found that it "matches my vision best."

    I don't really like it but I have been shooting so long that you mentally find ways around it.
    Sort of like how a professional racecar driver learns to adapt his style to drive around a poor handling car, eh? Unfortunately, when I was racing cars, I was anything but a professional -- you think photography is an expensive hobby?! -- and my ability to adapt to a car that was handling poorly on the day was quite limited, despite my decent skill at hustling one that's handling well around a track fairly quickly.

    I find the same to be sort of true with me and cameras. If I have to actually think about what I'm doing when using a camera, then the quality of my results falls off precipitously. Which is how I came to end up with a Contax 645 outfit, but that's another matter...

    I wish my Sony was 4:3 rds to be honest.
    I hate to say it, because I've since been thoroughly seduced by MFD's IQ, but if there was a high-res DSLR available in the 4:3 format, then I probably wouldn't have ended up with an MF system. If it also had Live View, then I almost certainly would have stopped short of MF digital ... for a while, anyway, as I'm sure the siren's song would have lured me here eventually!

  3. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    The only thing I often dont like is to have to crop afterwards because often it seems I frame the subject in a way it fits good in the viewfinder and sometimes it doesnt work any more if I have to crop it to a different format.
    Apparently, I have little imagination, because I have to actually "see" an image before I can photograph it (which is why stitching doesn't work for me, at least with the gear I'm using now). And after I have photographed it, I can't seem to see anything except the image as it was captured.

    I don't have any philosophical objection to cropping images, mind you, but it just doesn't seem to work very well for me.

  4. #54
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    I hate to say it, because I've since been thoroughly seduced by MFD's IQ, but if there was a high-res DSLR available in the 4:3 format, then I probably wouldn't have ended up with an MF system. If it also had Live View, then I almost certainly would have stopped short of MF digital ... for a while, anyway, as I'm sure the siren's song would have lured me here eventually!
    Personally - despite several years shooting Olympus 4/3, I was really relieved to get back to 3:2 on the Sony . . . I wonder why that's why I haven't ended up with an MF system!

    Just this guy you know

  5. #55
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    For me the issue is end destination, not what I may like or not like.

    I make $$ from prints and the clients mat and frame them ... 8X10s, 16X20s and so on. I hate making them buy custom frames and mats.

    Plus, unless I remember to shoot the 3:2 loose enough, I get into trouble with not enough head room for the live subject width. 5X7s are a real headache.

    So, I print 8X10s on 8,5X11 paper, 11X14s on 13X19 paper, and 16X20s on 17X22 paper. I don't consider it waste since it provides a white area around the image to hold the print in hand ... and allows for ease of matting.

    Most wedding albums lend themselves to 8X10 ratios ... although the coffee table books can use just about anything.

    Wish some 35mm DSLR maker would do a full res 4:3 ratio camera ... not a crop option, a full sensor. LOL!

    -Marc

  6. #56
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    You hit a good point and the truth is you are correct if you actually have to think about the framing than yes you can fall short. As I teach on the workshops this is my big thing when i am walking around helping people with there shots , yes i am over there shoulder A LOT. I'm sure some would rather me go away. LOL But this is my forte is composition and framing. What I see is folks struggling with the camera to get what they think is correct and for some it's a real fight. Now as more experienced you get this gets more into just a flow with the mind. But I see a lot of folks really killing themselves to get there and it just takes time and learning composition and framing without actually thinking about it is hard to do and I try very hard to work with them and get that as natural as possible. It's not easy and it takes time and good understanding of composition. Honestly I think this maybe the hardest things to master in photography forget the gear but getting your head around making the image work is the key and a lot of that is composition and framing and if your struggling with aspect ratios than it will be very hard. Some love 3:2 and nothing wrong with that if they can do it right. For some reason 4:3rds fits the world better in my mind.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  7. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    For me the issue is end destination, not what I may like or not like.
    And therein lies the fundamental difference between a professional and a hobbyist, as the only "customer" I ever have to please is myself! When push comes to shove, unlike you, I don't have to deliver the goods on any given day...

    Wish some 35mm DSLR maker would do a full res 4:3 ratio camera ... not a crop option, a full sensor. LOL!
    You and me both, brother!

  8. #58
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    I'm going to bring up last workshop for a second as we had one very nice gentleman come on it and he scared me to death as he would not really frame and compose in camera .What he would do is take handheld panos or tripod and do a upper horizontal pano a middle horizontal pano and a lower horizontal pano. So one shot maybe 30 or 40 images . He would than stitch that all together than from there crop to what he liked. Now i thought how the hell do you do that, it goes against every compositional shooting rule in the book. Well let me tell ya he blew me away with his images and no kidding gave me a whole different perspective on composing in camera because he came out with images that where composed and framed very nice and good images to. Basically his idea was to take a 4/3rd GF1 and get as much file as he could and he did that with stitching and such. Honestly he impressed the heck out of me.

    Now here is the really scary part not only did he do the stitching for each shot he also did a bracket for each shot. So it actually was 3 shots per shot in each step in his pano. So to get ONE frame image at the end of the day it was like 90 frames to get there with bracketing. WOW
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm going to bring up last workshop for a second as we had one very nice gentleman come on it and he scared me to death as he would not really frame and compose in camera .What he would do is take handheld panos or tripod and do a upper horizontal pano a middle horizontal pano and a lower horizontal pano. So one shot maybe 30 or 40 images . He would than stitch that all together than from there crop to what he liked.
    To each their own, eh? As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat...

    That said, I can imagine how disorienting this experience must have been for you given your role as a teacher. What advice would you possibly be able to offer somebody who has such a working method?

  10. #60
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Well the bracketing just adds more fuel to the fire. That one I questioned but light does change and on a couple images you could see the differences in the stitch. But I was truly baffled and helped as much as I could on at least the intended area he was shooting. I did help a lot in post with processing and cropping but he really threw me for a loop and it is something that I have never seen and it will not be forgotten on my end. I totally give him a lot of credit though, he did shoot some really great stuff. He is a member here and hope he reads this , I know he will get a good laugh. I hope he does another workshop too, I got a real kick out of this.

    His bottom line was to get the most from the 4/3rds out of it because shooting MF was something he could not do physically because of the weight issue and his back. Great problem solving solution for him.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #61
    RKLFteacher
    Guest

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Schneider is porting the new MF Tilt/shift to the S2 Leica in the spring.
    Might help those S2 people who would like movements.

  12. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    860
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    76

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by RKLFteacher View Post
    Schneider is porting the new MF Tilt/shift to the S2 Leica in the spring.
    Might help those S2 people who would like movements.
    That sounds interesting. I think it's going to be a while longer before Leica gets their tilt/shift in the market.

  13. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    I don't have any philosophical objection to cropping images, mind you, but it just doesn't seem to work very well for me.
    A lot of times people will develop preferences in the arts based on intuition. So it's often difficult to explain exact reasos for likes/dislikes. I have actually developed a philosophy against cropping because it shifts the lens axis plane within the frame of the image. People that have a background in drafting might get sense of disoriented perspective when viewing certain cropped images. But it's more a "feeling" than anything else...there's no real "right or wrong."

    An example of this phenomenon might be to imagine an architectural exterior photograph taken of a tall building using an extreme wide angle lens with a large shift movement. Even though the horizontal and vertical lines of the building are perfectly corrected with the shift movement, the building will still "feel" top heavy to many viewers. That feeling is created because the position of the lens axis plane is low within the frame and it adds a sense of uneven weight distribution to the building . It's a psychological thing...a matter of perception. It's not necessarily right or wrong, just a feeling.

    Anyhow, I try to avoid anything other than very minor cropping because of how it can add a sense of uneasiness. OF course, some artists might intentionally want to create a sense of unease depending on context LOL So there are no right or wrongs...just preferences

  14. #64
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    A lot of times people will develop preferences in the arts based on intuition. So it's often difficult to explain exact reasos for likes/dislikes. I have actually developed a philosophy against cropping because it shifts the lens axis plane within the frame of the image. People that have a background in drafting might get sense of disoriented perspective when viewing certain cropped images. But it's more a "feeling" than anything else...there's no real "right or wrong."

    An example of this phenomenon might be to imagine an architectural exterior photograph taken of a tall building using an extreme wide angle lens with a large shift movement. Even though the horizontal and vertical lines of the building are perfectly corrected with the shift movement, the building will still "feel" top heavy to many viewers. That feeling is created because the position of the lens axis plane is low within the frame and it adds a sense of uneven weight distribution to the building . It's a psychological thing...a matter of perception. It's not necessarily right or wrong, just a feeling.

    Anyhow, I try to avoid anything other than very minor cropping because of how it can add a sense of uneasiness. OF course, some artists might intentionally want to create a sense of unease depending on context LOL So there are no right or wrongs...just preferences
    Mike,

    I just don't understand this at all, which probably exposes my limited technical understandings (no surprise here).

    If I am using a camera that shoots 6x6cm format negs and another that shoots 6x4.5cm negs and have comparable lenses mounted on each (similar FOV etc)....what difference does it make if I crop the 6x6cm image down to what the 6x4.5cm image looks like? That's always been a major appeal for me of the 6x6 square format (whether with my older Mamiya TLR or newer Hasselblads), since I'm not particularly wedded to square format images....but I can crop horizontal or vertical and get the equivalent of my Pentax 645. And I've never concerned myself too much with cropping a little off the top, sides or bottom of my Pentax 67 images (especially if there is more sky etc than I really wanted), to get images that print nicely on 11x17 or 13x19 paper. I've certainly never noticed any additional tension or unease in the images.

    I must be missing something here, so really, help me understand what that is. Perhaps it depends on what is cropped out of an image....not the cropping itself.....that, I could understand.

    Gary

  15. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    The lens axis plane in photography is similar to the angle-of-view or point-of-view in drawing. The angle of view helps determine where lines converge at the horizon and establishes vanishing points.

    The eye of the viewer can be lead around a composition according to the lines and their vanishing points. For example, most photographers are familiar with how the viewer's eye is drawn to the lightest parts of an image and many will add vignettes in order to darken the edges and lead the viewer's eye towards the center of the frame. But lines also lead the viewers' eyes in a composition. If the lens axis plane points to the center of a frame then the lines created by it and their associated vanishing point are leading the viewer's eye to the center of the frame too.

    Let's take Gary's example of shooting a 6x6 piece of film and cropping it down to the equivalent of 6x4.5 piece of film. If he were to shave off 1.5 from one side of the film then that would shift the lens axis plane away from the center of the frame and closer to the side that was cropped. However, if he were to shave .75 from the top and .75 from the bottom then the lens axis plane would remain in the center. Whether or not that is good depends on the image. But most people that crop aren't even aware of what effect it might have on perspective at all so they are usually doing a sloppy job of it.

    One of the things that can confuse photographers about discussions regarding perspective is that they tend to only relate it to straightening out converging horizontal and vertical lines. So it can be a bit hard to talk about and I don't bring it up much.

  16. #66
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Thanks Mike.....I'll have to mull this over, think this thru....and probably do alot more to educate myself on the more technical aspects of perspective etc before I truly understand it.

    Just for the heck of it, I just took one of my Pentax 67 images that I have struggled with re cropping in different ways and posted three variations to my gallery, without re-sizing the image at all (although the Gallery thumbnails are deceptive in this regard)....so the dimensions of the key object in the photograph, a large metal box, remains unchanged. Quite a different look to this image, depending on how it is cropped (from almost a pano horizontal crop vs square vs uncropped). Getting farther off topic for this thread of course, but it gets to my viewpoint that there is nothing inherently sacrosanct about the format of the original image....whether a square, 4:3, 3:2, 4:5, 6:7 or pano format works best for any particular image is, in my view, entirely dependent on the photographer and the subject matter. I don't want to limit my vision to the image dimensions of the particular camera I happen to be using at the time I took the photograph. It doesn't happen often for me....but sometimes a square view of the world actually fits better with what I'm seeing.....even when I don't have the Hasselblad handy. In fact, for this particular image.....I think I like the square format best. If I was a purist about cropping, I suppose I could have gone home to get the Hasselblad and re-shot the image.....but would the result have been any different?

    http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/brow...?c=181&userid=

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 4th December 2010 at 20:53.

  17. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    The lens axis plane in photography is similar to the angle-of-view or point-of-view in drawing. The angle of view helps determine where lines converge at the horizon and establishes vanishing points.
    Color me dumb, but I never thought about this before. But I find it interesting to reflect upon, as I photograph a lot of architecture, and on those rare occasions when I do crop, it's only to remove the extra bit of image that wasn't visible in the viewfinder when I framed my composition (i.e., my crops are almost always done symmetrically around the center of the image).

    Perhaps this also explains why I generally prefer single-shot images to those that have been stitched together by shifting the lens instead of the back?

    Hmm....

  18. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    but would the result have been any different?

    http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/brow...?c=181&userid=

    Gary
    Check out this graph on one-point-perspective:
    http://www.olejarz.com/arted/perspective/

    Notice that all of the lines at the edges of the frame converge at a single point in the center. Imagine that the center of the graph is similar to the lens axis plane placed in the center of an image. Observe that there is more space between the lines at the edges of the frame than there is between the same lines near their point of convergence. The farther the lines are from the point of convergence means the more space between them. The closer the lines are to the point of convergence means the least space between them.

    OK - So how does this relate to cropping the edges of an image? Now we're going to have to go into right brained territory which is dominated by feelings and intuition. I linked the graph so that left brained analytical people can understand the concept. But in the end, the only people that will really "get it" and know how to apply it will have to "feel" it more than know it.

    When a photographer crops the edges of a frame, he is eliminating the part of the image where the lines have the most space between them. The crop is now emphasizing the part of the image where the converging lines have the least space between them. This reduction in space between lines adds empasis the center of the image where the lines are closest together. This causes a "claustrophobic" type of tension in the gut of the viewer. My unofficial and non-technical name for this tension is the "Star Wars Trash Compactor Effect." Remember the scene where Luke Skywalker and friends jump into the Death Star trash compactor and all of the walls slowly close in until there is no room left and they are all almost smashed? That is exactly the same kind of tense feeling that cropping the edges from an image creates in the viewer. The image is essentially losing space and being squeezed together just like a trash compactor. The greatest feelings of claustrophobia will be caused by the heaviest crops. But the tension is always there no matter how sparingly the edges may be cropped.

    The best way to test this out is to shoot the same subject 2 different ways while making certain that the composition and angle of view doesn't change between shots. Obviously, one shot would be done with the camera pulled back far and then cropped heavily into the final image. The second shot would be done with the camera closer to the subject and the final image would reman un-cropped. If the photographer does a good job of maintaining the same composition and the point of view between both cropped and un-cropped shots, then the one that is cropped should feel claustrophic in comparison to the the one that is un-cropped. Disregarding any possible resolution difference in the cropped image or depth of field differences due to distance etc....both images should essentially look the same, but feel different to the viewer simply because of the difference in space between the lines in the frame.

  19. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    Perhaps this also explains why I generally prefer single-shot images to those that have been stitched together by shifting the lens instead of the back?

    Hmm....
    That is an excellent example. I don't like the look of images stitched by shifting the lens either precisely because of what it does to the lens axis plane.

  20. #70
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Thanks for all that information and the link Mike, but this still leaves me wondering about the seemingly arbitrary (to me) aversion to cropping a image as a matter of principal. Suppose I'm shooting with my Hasselblad with one of the 6x6 cm backs attached. I take a photo (square format of course), but then decide later that this image would look better, for whatever reason, in a rectangular 6x4.5 format. Now I could have taken that same photo twice, once with the 6x6 back attached and a second time with Hasselblad's 6x4.5 back attached. If I had taken two shots, one with each back, I'd have an image that didn't need to be cropped (from the 6x4.5cm back)....but what difference does it make if I simply cropped the 6x6 to 6x4.5 (or some other dimension, for that matter)? Yes, I understand the image will look different and for many of the reasons you've noted.....but as to the actual choice between cropping an existing image (6x6) or using a camera/back that already is "cropped" to those dimensions (as with this example).....I really don't see that whether an image is cropped or uncropped makes any difference. This is why the general aversion to cropping an image, in and of itself, is not something I feel (ie the original dimensions of an image are not carved in stone for me).....it's what the final image looks like that matters, whether it's square, 4:3, 3:2, 6:7 or whatever.....and in working up an image for printing, I don't limit myself to the format of the particular camera I'm using at the time the original photo was taken.

    Gary

  21. #71
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Um, getting back closer to the original topic, DPReview just published sample images from the 645D along with downloadable RAW files.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  22. #72
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    @Gary
    The image circle itself is a frame and the film/sensor is actually a crop from the frame, so similar ideas apply to that too. Sorry to stray OT, but I was just introducing the idea to people in case they hadn't thought of it before. That doesn't mean they'll be able to use it in their own work. This isn't left brain analytical, it's right brain intuitive. It's basically a way of associating feelings with perspective. Choice of focal length itself can have psychological and symbolic associations but I won't hog up anymore of the thread blabbing

  23. #73
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Hey Mike,
    don't get me wrong, the discussion was intensely fascinating, but kinda OT. It certainly deserves further discussion in it's own thread. Wish I could do something about it.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  24. #74
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Hey Mike,
    don't get me wrong, the discussion was intensely fascinating, but kinda OT. It certainly deserves further discussion in it's own thread. Wish I could do something about it.
    +1! Sorry for getting us farther and farther OT. It's given me alot to think about and a different way of looking at my choices etc....so thanks Mike!

    Gary

  25. #75
    Khaled gawdat
    Guest

    Arrow Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    I used to have bronica 645 with schnieder zoom lens that gave incredible picture quality. Digital MF I choose between leica s2 and pentax 645d. The 4/3 format in pentax rather than the 3/2 format in leica was a decisive factor but more importantly the range of lenses and cost. I have now the pentax 645d with 5 autofocus lenses, 3 of them zooms for less than the price of the s2 body alone. I can be much more creative and productive this way.

  26. #76
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    The price of the Pentax 645D makes it highly appealing. The lenses are surprisingly good (to the uninitiated) and freely available on the second-hand market. In this economic climate, the 645D has some very strong points.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  27. #77
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaled gawdat View Post
    I used to have bronica 645 with schnieder zoom lens that gave incredible picture quality. Digital MF I choose between leica s2 and pentax 645d. The 4/3 format in pentax rather than the 3/2 format in leica was a decisive factor but more importantly the range of lenses and cost. I have now the pentax 645d with 5 autofocus lenses, 3 of them zooms for less than the price of the s2 body alone. I can be much more creative and productive this way.
    How consistent do you find the AF?
    There were reports with different conclusion.
    I agree that the price of the Pentax 645 is very appealing as the big range of second hand lenses.
    On the other side lens quality was one of the reasons why I choose the Leica - I thought if I did I would never have to doubt about lens quality any more - and thats how I feel now.
    3:2 vs 4:3 is also quite a question. I like both-depending on the subject.
    Anyways-great to have those choices.

  28. #78
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,503
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    How consistent do you find the AF?
    There were reports with different conclusion.
    Only one of my lenses is AF--the new 55mm. I find the AF very good. With the old AF lenses, you can adjust the AF focus point for each lens. The camera will remember the adjustment for each lens.

    When I was shopping for the 645D, there were lots of reviews with different conclusions (some panning the 645D without even bothering with the formality of even using the camera--see Ken Rockwell). My conclusion is there is sample variation in products AND reviewers. Like many things, the "truth" is somewhere in between the extremes. I really enjoy this camera. It is really well designed and can give great results. Fortunately, there is enough full-size image samples on the web that can answer many questions--where I live there was no chance to try before buying.

  29. #79
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    W. NY, close to Toronto, far from NYC
    Posts
    1,429
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    I concur with Shashin. I have 5 FA lenses and have not found is necessary to input any focus adjustment. I had trouble with the manual focus lenses, consistently suffering front focus; however, once I acquired a 2x magnifier for the eyepiece that problem went away. I should say I rarely use a lens wide open and although I tested my lenses at full aperture it's not a significant aspect for me, so perhaps f/8 hides some focus errors. I followed Lloyd Chamber's review of the 645D very closely (in fact two of the lenses he tested are mine). Itís a paid site, but I don't think I'm giving anything away by mentioning that he found the AF in the S2 to be unreliable (he had similar complaints about the Pentax). Perhaps I am not as critical as he, but Iím quite satisfied. I should mention that I do not use the matrix AF; rather I lock focus using the central sensor and then recompose.

    Tom

  30. #80
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,676
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    Hi Tom & All,

    I would honestly have to say that AF fine tuning with some of the FA af lenses is manditory if one plans to use them at any f-stop generally below f8 (like aprox. f7.2 etc). It's at these more open f-stops that I found with the majority (although not all) FA af lenses (multiple samples of each focal length tested) needed AF fine tuning and the increase in sharpness and resolution was striking at times. This also helped with edge/corner sharpness with lenses that exhibted considerable field curvature, like the FA 35mm f2.8 lens. Yes, 100% crops of these files were examined, but this increase in sharpness, especially across the frame was needed prior to large format printing of images. Multiple samples of a given lens might sometimes needed quite diffferent Af fine tune settings. The one lens that consistantly didn't (quite a few sample tested) was the FA 120 f4 macro. I surmised this may be due to the extra care and adjusment of this particular lens by Pentax since it was a macro lens and the focusing range in a macro lens is "great", going from 1:1 macro to infinity.....therefore it had to be carefully adjusted, even for film use, before leaving the factory.

    I agree with Tom...if you are going to use most of the FA lenses at f8 and especially f11, Af fine tune in most cases will have minimal effect...or if you don't examine files at 100%, or print large, then Af fine tuning may also be of lesser value.

    *** I should add that I have found the Af with the 645D along with FA 645 lenses is quite reliable and very accurate "AFTER" Af fine tuning was completed. Even at a len's minimum focusing distance, focus was extremely accurate...using either the center or side sensors. Of course its not as fast as a Pro DSLR especially in tracking. nor is lock-on in certain lighting situations as predictable as a Pro DSLR, but it's capability and performance is beyond what I expected...so no complaints on my end.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 20th June 2011 at 05:48.

  31. #81
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    It is interesting how time and actual experience alters one's perspective.

    I did go for the S2P and have all four S lenses available. IMO, the S2 is far more portable than a 645 (I've owned a Contax 645, Mamiya 645 and H 645s). The S2 promotes "take with" in just about the same manner as a Pro 645. Smaller case needed, easier to store the lenses than the H versions I have, not as bulky and handles exactly like a 35mm DSLR. Very bright viewfinder.

    While the S2 cannot compete with my H4D/60 in terms of resolution it creams all my 35mm solutions and has the same ratio. The S lenses have come into their own and really needed to be experienced in post to realize the characteristics which I at first thought to be too clinical ... in fact, like I suspect others first did, I applied the wrong level of sharpening to my first test files ... which simply isn't needed. All four of S lenses are the best I've used to date, with the stand-outs being the 120/2.5 Macro (finally an optic that bests the Contax 120/4 IMO), and S180. The 35 is far better than the HC35 and even edged out the 35 end of the highly acclaimed HCD/35-90 with DAC corrections applied in Phocus. Since then Adobe added DAC type corrections for the S lenses which has almost no effect on the 70,120,180 but does slightly improve the S35 to make it even more well corrected.

    The net is, I now have difficulty telling the S2 shots from the M9 shots when mixed altogether ... except the S2 files are twice the size.

    Leica has issued new firmware that significantly improved the AF performance over the S2 I tested the year prior, and recently issued a profile so the S2 files can now be processed in C1.

    Of course, all of this comes at a staggering price, so it's all relative.

    -Marc

  32. #82
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pentax 645D vs S2

    The ergonomics of the S2 were a big advantage on two trips (2 wks) where I was able to compare the C645/P65+ nto the S2. Exept for a few situations (where I wanted large prints) the S2 was lighter and "got more shots. I even used for panos, and I for one have no problem with lens shift rather than back) depends on lens and orientation (I mostly use 50-80 mm vertically)

    With 4 rotator cups, broken wrist and neck disk problems (I BREAK things ) the S2 was a LOT lighter feeling. Curiously it felt bigger in my hand than thenContax.

    Will I switch? let's see what the IQ180 brings. I am already looking at modifying my Modular R for Hassy V or S2,

    If I do switch, a really complet system will go on the market for the contax fans here. I will keep a few lenses, extra body and a film back, for 'posterity"

    Victor

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •