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Thread: P80

  1. #51
    SCHWARZZEIT
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    Re: P80

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Here's my question: With the sharpest glass designed to support the dot pitch of the 60MP back, how much sharper will the 80MP be without NASA quality optics that are not commercially available?

    RE from the Rodenstock website:

    The lenses of the Rodenstock series HR Digaron-W have been optimized for large sensor formats with a pixel pitch of about 6 μm for highest resolution up to 60 megapixels
    Ed, Rodenstock and Schneider tend to be very conservative about making absolute statements on their lens performance. When designing a lens absolute resolving power is usually not included in the design specs. I think among other lens properties they try to get very good contrast modulation in certain spatial frequencies across the lens's specified image circle. High resolving power is just something that comes with a design. But it's hard to measure because it depends a lot on the input contrast and the capture medium's threshold for image contrast.
    When Peter Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, was asked about the resolving power of the S2 lenses he said they didn't test it. He just mentioned (with a confident smile on his face) that from the specs it had to be somewhere in the range of 300 lp/mm in the center of the IC (probably at f/4). I'm sure the Rodenstock and Schneider digital lenses have similar resolution that is virtually diffraction limited in the center at their specified working aperture range.
    For the sensor manufacturers that means they could go to down to a 2 micron design which would still improve image resolution in the center of the IC with these lenses for high contrast detail that would be barely resolved as very low contrast image detail. But there wouldn't be much difference in the corners of a large sensor compared to a 5 or 6 micron sensor. For critical corner performance you tend to stop down, probably to f/8 or f/11 where you're in diffraction territory anyway. In that case a smaller sensel pitch would help you to resolve the diffraction pattern a little better. It's always better to have four pixels for an Airy disk than just one. It would also help to overcome the limitations of the Bayer array and retain the color depth at high magnifications. But reducing the sensel pitch inherits other problems that might affect the overall image quality more than the slight gain in resolution. It's all about balance. Increasing the image format would be a smarter move to improve overall IQ with current technologies.

    -Dominique

  2. #52
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    Re: P80

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I would agree that while 1998 is a perfectly fine color space that ProPhoto is worthwhile to look into if your source images are coming from a digital back where the potential color captured is in a very large (device) color gamut. Mind you that the raw remains in the device color space so you could always go back later and process to a wider gamut but I see very little reason not to process in Profoto to start with, or for a more archival-oriented workflow save your tiffs with the embeded profile before changing them downstream to whatever your needs are.
    Well, one reason for not choosing Profoto could be that it is such a wide gamut space. It's wider than any device can output. The gaps between the tonal values are larger than in a more confined color space. This might not cause any problems working in 16 bit but smaller adjustments do have a larger effect than in other more optimized color spaces.

    -Dominique

  3. #53
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    Re: P80

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Marc,
    I've done more than 30 seconds with a P40+ Here is a one minute exposure....skip the content but technically it didn't have a noise issue

    Attachment 37982
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    P40 + does not have micro lenses and I have gone a full minute just around the corner where Terry shot with excellent results . Can it go longer not sure it was cold out and it probably could have went 2 minutes. Hard to say

    This one was 30 seconds and I did go 60 seconds same shot and looks identical

    Extraordinary!!!!

  4. #54
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    Re: P80

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    If that is the case and it ushers the era of new backs it will be very interesting to see what they add. I'm intrigued because C1 ver 6.0 announcement talks about the iPad app coming, presumably to be used in tandem with tethering but what will tethering be? Is wireless fast enough????? These sort of changes would open up using a MacBook Air etc. in the field.....fun times ahead.
    I am guessing that it will be like the Hasselblad one. For what I have read Hasselblad's iPad application was a great impact at Photokina.

  5. #55
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P80

    So far you still have to tether to a laptop like normal but you can have a Ipad, Iphone see the same image. So you could have a art director in studio with Ipad in hand, which is nice but obviously we want more and actually shoot without wires entirely. Well see how that comes down in the future with newer backs. WE are going to need at least two things to do that one is simple Raw+Jpegs and some Wifi device built in the back to send the signal. All very doable
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: P80

    I'm pretty sure most modern Rodenstock and Schneider lenses won't have a problem to resolve 80 or even 100Mp. I really can't wait to see what Phase does with new new backs, I think it can only be a few more weeks until we know.

  7. #57
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P80

    Been very quiet in rumor land let me tell ya. Let's hope so
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: P80

    well thats because Phase isn't Canon and there aren't thousands of people who could spll the beans. ;-)

  9. #59
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    Re: P80

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Here's my question: With the sharpest glass designed to support the dot pitch of the 60MP back, how much sharper will the 80MP be without NASA quality optics that are not commercially available?

    RE from the Rodenstock website:

    The lenses of the Rodenstock series HR Digaron-W have been optimized for large sensor formats with a pixel pitch of about 6 μm for highest resolution up to 60 megapixels
    Pixel pitch does not equal pixel density. My understanding is that the pixel size of the 80 Mp sensor is the same as the 60, but they have increased the density by reducing the size of the gap between the pixels.

    Yaya or Dave, can you expand on this?
    Siebel
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    www.bryansiebel.com

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