P80

[Dustbak]

P40 + does not have micro lenses and I have gone a full minute just around the corner where Terry shot with excellent results . Can it go longer not sure it was cold out and it probably could have went 2 minutes. Hard to say

This one was 30 seconds and I did go 60 seconds same shot and looks identical

I stand corrected about the P40. Amazing!!

BTW I have seen the god awful noise and misery from the Dalsa sensors more than I care for (Leaf backs). I do have to admit it being several years ago so I am sure there has been improvement in this area. Since I am in doubt over the 50MS or the 60 it would make my choice for the 60 much less painful if I could feel a bit more relieved over the possibilities of the Dalsa for taking long exposures. I have still have no confidence in it getting up to the level of the P21/25/30/45+ any time soon.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No it won't get to those levels of the Phase Kodak sensors anytime soon and obviously this back there was some worry for me to get long exposures. 1 minute is good not great but than you have to decide how much you dip in this area and how much you need it or not. I'm sure i will kick myself one day when i want to do star trails. But I was pleasantly surprised with these long exposures. I would like to try longer and just see what happens just for kicks. Now that it has cooled down here in Phoenix a better chance at it going longer.

 

[fotografz]

Ah, the speculation! Gives me the giggles when I hear the speculation about a Blad 80Mp. It's almost 2 years since they "announced" the H4d60 and they are only now delivering a small trickle of cameras. I'm very glad to have been a Phase user since the H5.
Re the long exposure issue, I think the whole debate is a beatup. Yes, the P65+ gets noisy when you go over 60 sec and it gets worse as you shoot consecutive frames. In cool weather this does not happen. The last time I had issues with it, I was shooting 65sec exposures in 50degC weather in the Arabian desert. We've since started applying ice packs to the back on the rare occasion we expose this long. Problem gone. Lets be clear about this - under 60sec I have never seen the allegedly god-awful noise. Despite all the chatter on the forums about it, I have yet to see evidence of the problem in the 30-50+sec range when the back is used in temps under 40degC.
BTW, unlike film-era view camera lenses, digi era technical camera lenses such as the apo-digitars etc are optimized for much larger apertures, often in the f8-f11 range. At these apertures, ultra-long exposures are pretty rare in general practice.

Cracks me up what dupes we all are for the back makers ... one minute Phase is the cat's pajamas because it does long exposures ... then it's okay that it doesn't when it can't ... :ROTFL:

 

[mAlKhamis]

P40 + does not have micro lenses and I have gone a full minute just around the corner where Terry shot with excellent results . Can it go longer not sure it was cold out and it probably could have went 2 minutes. Hard to say

This one was 30 seconds and I did go 60 seconds same shot and looks identical

Guy, this shot is amazingly exposed and composed, well done my friend :thumbs:

I only have one note on the P40+ from my basic experience so far, i've noticed that there are some problems with dark blue toning and loss of bits, and it's obvious in the area of transition between light blue to dark blue sometime the dark blues breaks up with minor adjustment like color modification or exposure edit, specially in long exposures.
is that due to problems in my exposure setting, or it's normal ?

cheers! Moh

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm wondering if it is the gamut in your monitor.

 

[mAlKhamis]

I'm wondering if it is the gamut in your monitor.

Maybe you are right !! I'm using a 27 inch imac and my color profile is Adobe RGB 1998 <=== is that the correct color profile ?
what do you recommend ?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No not really it is actually too small a gamut space for the camera which nothing really matches the back camera space it is so damn big . Try Profoto or what i have been doing as Bob brought up to me is in C1 use embedded camera profile in your processing tag.

Now the other issue is your IMac is SRGB which is a even smaller gamut and you may be banding and more the culprit than your color space

Honestly you went this far get a wide gamut NEC or Eizo. I believe you can hook up a external monitor to your Imac. So a Nec as your primary with it's color calibration kit and the Imac can be the tool bar monitor. I know you hate me now. LOL More money down the black hole. Actually I am running a 30 inch NEC off my laptop and the laptop is the tool monitor and e-mail. Love this montior

 

[Guy Mancuso]

They have 30 inch and 24 inch

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...K_SV_MultiSync_3090W_BK_SV_30_Widescreen.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...V_MultiSync_PA241W_BK_SV_24_1_Widescreen.html

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Maybe Doug , Jack and Bob can enlighten the subject more on this. But I think you really are just banding up

 

[mAlKhamis]

Maybe Doug , Jack and Bob can enlighten the subject more on this. But I think you really are just banding up

i agree with you, maybe it's related to the color space of my imac monitor,

Buying another monitor, is a nice suggestion, but the black hole already sucked me up :deadhorse: :banghead:

so it would be an excellent question, what's the best color profile to be used with a 27 inch imac monitor while using capture one. :lecture:

thanks Guy for your response, i really appreciate it !

 

[dougpeterson]

I would agree that while 1998 is a perfectly fine color space that ProPhoto is worthwhile to look into if your source images are coming from a digital back where the potential color captured is in a very large (device) color gamut. Mind you that the raw remains in the device color space so you could always go back later and process to a wider gamut but I see very little reason not to process in Profoto to start with, or for a more archival-oriented workflow save your tiffs with the embeded profile before changing them downstream to whatever your needs are.

I would agree with Mohammad though that at the extremity of the back's long exposure capabilities the first thing to go is often flexibility in blue channel data. That is to say that presented "straight" (meaning few curves/corrections/adjustments) the file from a P40+ or P65+ will look fine at 45 seconds or 60 seconds or, depending on temperature a bit longer, but that when pushed/pulled/manipulated the blues might start to break down. Whereas at 10-30 seconds the blue data will still have a lot of mailability.

What it comes down to is what it means to be at the extremity of long exposure capability. There must be a point between short exposures (with ridiculous file flexibility) and the longest possible remotely usable long exposure where the image is fine presented strait but the flexibility starts to fade away.

Another way of saying this is that getting the right in camera exposure becomes increasingly important as you reach the "cliff" of the longest possible exposure.

The same would be true of a P45+ at around 30-40 minutes; the image is great when presented strait but starts to loose some of it's flexibility in post and requires more attention in post.

So if you're talking about blue channel flexibility at 30-60 seconds then the color space is not the issue. If you're talking about banding/noise in blue in shorter exposures (e.g. 5 seconds) then the color space, settings in Capture One, and overall workflow might be responsible.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One at 10% off

 

[tetsrfun]

Honestly you went this far get a wide gamut NEC or Eizo.
*******
The difference isn't subtle. In the recent past either Guy and/or Jack mentioned a reduced price on the NEC 3090 WQXI. I got one and it is far superior to my calibrated Mac 30".

Steve

 

[Harry]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.....P80?

 

[mAlKhamis]

I would agree that while 1998 is a perfectly fine color space that ProPhoto is worthwhile to look into if your source images are coming from a digital back where the potential color captured is in a very large (device) color gamut. Mind you that the raw remains in the device color space so you could always go back later and process to a wider gamut but I see very little reason not to process in Profoto to start with, or for a more archival-oriented workflow save your tiffs with the embeded profile before changing them downstream to whatever your needs are.

I would agree with Mohammad though that at the extremity of the back's long exposure capabilities the first thing to go is often flexibility in blue channel data. That is to say that presented "straight" (meaning few curves/corrections/adjustments) the file from a P40+ or P65+ will look fine at 45 seconds or 60 seconds or, depending on temperature a bit longer, but that when pushed/pulled/manipulated the blues might start to break down. Whereas at 10-30 seconds the blue data will still have a lot of mailability.

What it comes down to is what it means to be at the extremity of long exposure capability. There must be a point between short exposures (with ridiculous file flexibility) and the longest possible remotely usable long exposure where the image is fine presented strait but the flexibility starts to fade away.

Another way of saying this is that getting the right in camera exposure becomes increasingly important as you reach the "cliff" of the longest possible exposure.

The same would be true of a P45+ at around 30-40 minutes; the image is great when presented strait but starts to loose some of it's flexibility in post and requires more attention in post.

So if you're talking about blue channel flexibility at 30-60 seconds then the color space is not the issue. If you're talking about banding/noise in blue in shorter exposures (e.g. 5 seconds) then the color space, settings in Capture One, and overall workflow might be responsible.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One at 10% off

Doug, thank you so much, i was actually investigating that by myself before drawing conclusions, but i was to busy to finalize it and ask about it, however you filled up the gaps for me as usual, i really appreciate it !! :salute:

 

[mAlKhamis]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.....P80?

Harry sorry for cutting your topic like this, but i don't think that Phase one will respond to that, and they will rather tease you and keep it as surprise:ROTFL:

 

[fotografz]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.....P80?

Well, if Phase wanted to stunt sales in P65+ backs, they could leak the reality of a P85+ .... as it seems those in the quest for more and more pixels would naturally wait a bit more ... even with "retail price difference" promotions in place. Which of course leaves out the current P65+ "early adopters" just like it does with any other promo from the competition. For example, Hassey's current trade promo doesn't distinguish between a H3D/39, H3D-II/39, H3D/39 Multi-Shot, CF39, CF-II/39 or CF-CF-II/39 Multi-Shot ... which is mind-boggling IMO. The value of these widely different priced kits is homogenized into one trade value. :wtf:

I've a mind to check with my dealer to find out if I can just trade in a H3D/39 toward the H4D/60 I'm leaning toward, then find someone here to swap out my H2F - CF/39 Multi-Shot for their H3D/39. :angel:

Man, the slope gets more and more slippery every year. $20K, $30K, even marching toward $40K. There are so many improvements needed in MFD systems that the march to the poor house will be never ending. :bugeyes:

-Marc

 

[Harry]

Harry sorry for cutting your topic like this, but i don't think that Phase one will respond to that, and they will rather tease you and keep it as surprise:ROTFL:

Not a problem

I would guess the new back would not be released for at least a year. Perhaps we could morph this thread into a "what do I want in a P80" since there is time for them to make it happen.

 

[Harry]

I'll start

I want a good lcd capable of checking focus.
Also movable multi focus points similar to Nikon/Canon

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Love to see something out for our next workshop.

 

[jduncan]

I think it will be the P85+ and it will probably be announced before the H4D80

If the history repeats itself .

By the way, it looks like only DALSA is investing on the high end.