Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 164

Thread: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

  1. #51
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I hope you will, re-shoot at f5.6, otherwise how can we compare?!


    Is it possible to have the full RAW of this shot?

    Thanks Jack,
    Thierry

    PS: going to bed now. Will continue "arguing" with you tomorrow.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Oh how stupid of me, of course you did -- but I'm not going to re-shoot at f5.6 even though it might be sharper still

    And yes, I see a significant improvement in relative noise here.

    Cheers,

  2. #52
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pham Minh Son View Post
    I did the comparison between the Rollei 110 and the Hasselblad 110 on the same digital sensor (Sinar 54H) and both are equally sharp with very high micro details. The Rollei has a little more CA than the Hasselblad version in the wide aperture range.

    -Son
    Thanks for the clarification Son. In practice, I actually find most of my Mamiya glass -- specifically the 55, 80, 150 and 210 AF lenses -- to be notably sharper than the Hassy 110. I like this Hassy lens for portraits and its ultra narrow DoF signature.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  3. #53
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    145

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Thierry,
    Normally I shy away from lens with CA but for some reason the Rollei 2.0/110 PQ really renders lovely bokeh that I even prefer more than my Hasselblad version despite it is a lens that can control CA better. I find my Hasselblad Zeiss lens and Contax 645 Zeiss lens are very similar in looks but the colors on the Rollei lens are special.

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

  4. #54
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    145

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Jack,
    For portrait the 2.0/110 Planar is really special lens. I shot Mamiya lens as well as you know and the images are also razor sharp as you found out. I never compare the Mamiya lens with the Zeiss but I found the skin tone on the Zeiss 110 looks so real. Also on your leaf test you did not put on F5.6 which you are handicapping yourself; there is a major difference between F4 and F5.6 in term of resolution. LOL

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

  5. #55
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I do absolutely agree with you on this. A jewel of a lens, IMO.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Pham Minh Son View Post
    Thierry,
    Normally I shy away from lens with CA but for some reason the Rollei 2.0/110 PQ really renders lovely bokeh that I even prefer more than my Hasselblad version despite it is a lens that can control CA better. I find my Hasselblad Zeiss lens and Contax 645 Zeiss lens are very similar in looks but the colors on the Rollei lens are special.

    Best Regards,
    -Son

  6. #56
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    145

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Speaking of colors, the Rollei 55 PC is amazing; very rich and natural colors.

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

  7. #57
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Jack,
    I think this second batch of photos provides a much better insight into the higher ISO capabilities of your back which seem to me to be quite good. Glad to see you using that Hassy lens on your kit, it's a winner.

  8. #58
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pham Minh Son View Post
    Jack,
    Also on your leaf test you did not put on F5.6 which you are handicapping yourself; there is a major difference between F4 and F5.6 in term of resolution. LOL

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    Yes, I know that is much better at f5.6 and 8, but honestly thought I remembered Thierry did his test at f4-1/3 and wanted to be as close as possible -- DOH, how stupid of me to not double check first

    Actually, a GREAT example if why I *hate* to do any kind of "testing" and publish the results -- too many ways for a simpleton like me to screw up!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  9. #59
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    145

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Jack,
    I forgot to tell you that I find the Mamiya RZ67 optic systems to have extremely great edge sharpness even more than my Hasselblad lens but only on the edges. I find these lens to be great for Landscape works.

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

  10. #60
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Actually, a GREAT example if why I *hate* to do any kind of "testing" and publish the results -- too many ways for a simpleton like me to screw up!
    Amen... and it's got nothing to do with being simple. Almost doesn't matter what the test is... some folks are looking for something else or otherwise finding fault. Still, for better or worse, it's good to have them and it really does help folks make up their mind about which back works better for them.

  11. #61
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    All I know every new back i have seen the higher ISO's look great even at 400 so if you can squeeze more than so much the better but I am really happy so far and this is becoming out of my dead cold hands. Okay have to get back to work , keep cheating and looking over on the site, habit
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  12. #62
    Samuel Axelsson
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Well, if I have to choose I prefer the Phase file. much more natural and detailed than the sinar back.
    Jack, you're gonna have a good time with this new toy I think... Congrats!

  13. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    If you want to see what the P45 can do in the hands of a real expert you may want to visit Charles Cramer's site. www.charlescramer.com

    Images from 2007 are almost all certain to be from the P45/Mamiya 645. I don't recall what lenses Charlie uses but I personally feel the results he gets from this equipment is just exemplary.

    Woody

  14. #64
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Charlie uses the 55-110 zoom pretty extensively for his landscape shooting. He also does NOT show 100% crops of files on his site! (And I know why ) Anyway, I was visiting Charlie and Bill Atkinson right after they got their P45's, and we were comparing their files directly to scanned 4x5, among others. (These files later made it into the Luminous Landscape file comparison DVD -- still available on the LL site I think if you want a copy.) The common comment from each of us was that the scanned 4x5 showed a bit more detail, but we all agreed you'd never see that tiny difference in a print. Even the differences we show in the side-by-sides in this thread would be difficult to detect in a print viewed normally...

    More to the point, this was almost two years ago and the raw converters have only improved -- back then, the P45 files did NOT show as much detail as what we're seeing now. Thus I am confident in claiming that this P45+ file is equal to or better than drum-scanned 4x5 from a detail rendering standpoint, which was pretty much my gold-standard target. Suffice it to say, I am really happy with my decision

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  15. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I am posting some shots i just took with the Hasselblad 31 at iso 100 and 800. The first is the scene followed by the two center crops. 100mm HC lens f8. +1E.V. I took some which were underexposed to various degrees as well at both iso settings. Most importantly, I turned all the software adjustment settings off in Phocus prior to processing. Sharpening, NR, DAC etc.. all NADA-off. Converted to 16-bit tiff, and then to jpg. Again no other manipulations in CS3 either.
    Last edited by mark1958; 26th January 2014 at 06:45.

  16. #66
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Mark,
    It would be interesting to me to see how much better you can get the ISO 100 image to look with the proper settings, sharpening, etc.

  17. #67
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I have not played with the H31, but did spend a little time with the P30+ in Puerto Rico. One thing I noticed right away is they needed more capture sharpening to crisp up -- I think those micro-lenses act like a weak AA filter...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  18. #68
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Here are two crops that I left the default Phocus filters on. The sharpening is rather mild so after conversion to tiff, I added a bit of USM. I tend to have a habit of over sharpening. I would also state that Phocus basically allows you to set sharpening to "zero" as far as I know.

  19. #69
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I have not played with the H31, but did spend a little time with the P30+ in Puerto Rico. One thing I noticed right away is they needed more capture sharpening to crisp up -- I think those micro-lenses act like a weak AA filter...
    Never found that to be true with the H3D/31 Jack. No apparent difference between my 31 and 39 that I can ever recall ... and that's shooting on the same job with both cameras.

  20. #70
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I am posting some shots i just took with the Hasselblad 31 at iso 100 and 800. The first is the scene followed by the two center crops. 100mm HC lens f8. +1E.V. I took some which were underexposed to various degrees as well at both iso settings. Most importantly, I turned all the software adjustment settings off in Phocus prior to processing. Sharpening, NR, DAC etc.. all NADA-off. Converted to 16-bit tiff, and then to jpg. Again no other manipulations in CS3 either.
    Will you guys please stop shooting in such horrible light ... and overexposing the crap out of the files ... we'll never suck in more MFD victims with shots like this

  21. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I have some that are more appropriately exposed but I posted this one on purpose to get some of the detail of the wood in the shaded part of the image. I cannot help it the sun is really shinning here and it is mid afternoon.

    Here are two crops that are somewhat oversharpened.

  22. #72
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    To much gear bickering ... time for some straight up humor!

    How can you tell if a Tomato is really a guy?
    Last edited by fotografz; 23rd July 2008 at 02:28.

  23. #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I take it chromosomal analysis is not the correct answer LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    To much gear bickering ... time for some straight up humor!

    How can you tell if a Tomato is really a guy?

  24. #74
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Mark,
    Thanks for posting those... They process up very nicely.

  25. #75
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Mark: Agreed, the second round look better.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  26. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Well Jack if you ever want to do some side by sides let me know.

  27. #77
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Sure Mark -- maybe the Stanford church after I get back from vacation?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  28. #78
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Okay, you guys are dead serious here, so I'll take my "Tomato", and put it on the "Fun with MF" thread

  29. #79
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I like your tomato, but can I twist it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  30. #80
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay, you guys are dead serious here, so I'll take my "Tomato", and put it on the "Fun with MF" thread
    Nope, we just know how to give you a proper hard time!

    (BTW, was I the only one who noted your tomato was complete with requisite pubic hair?)

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  31. #81
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I like your tomato, but can I twist it. LOL
    Twist what Guy? ... er ... whatever floats your boat

  32. #82
    Panopeeper
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I am posting some shots i just took with the Hasselblad 31 at iso 100 and 800
    Mark,

    do you mind posting the raw files of these two shots? I'd like to verify if they are truly overexposed, or if the software is playing a game. (yousendit is the simplest way.)

  33. #83
    Subscriber & Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,178
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    414

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay, you guys are dead serious here, so I'll take my "Tomato", and put it on the "Fun with MF" thread
    Marc, you are confused. That tomato is really a woman - you've got her up-side-down!

  34. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    You either want a forum where real users comment - or you can repeat the snide BS and fan boy attitudes that exists in other places - make up your minds. Reading stuff in here one would think that the test for a MFD is its high ISO performance shooting garden flora at 800.

    THAT is a LOAD in anyone's language buddy boyz - and quite a large smelly LOAD.

  35. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Gabor send me your email address and will do. I can tell you i shot at plus 1 EV to purposely overexpose. I had taken a bunch that were more properly exposed but the area I focused on under exposed. Do you have phocus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panopeeper View Post
    Mark,

    do you mind posting the raw files of these two shots? I'd like to verify if they are truly overexposed, or if the software is playing a game. (yousendit is the simplest way.)

  36. #86
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    You either want a forum where real users comment - or you can repeat the snide BS and fan boy attitudes that exists in other places - make up your minds. Reading stuff in here one would think that the test for a MFD is its high ISO performance shooting garden flora at 800.

    THAT is a LOAD in anyone's language buddy boyz - and quite a large smelly LOAD.
    That is why i shot a bathroom in the house. No real light , i tend to agree here folks we need the **** light. Besides have to say green is not the bad channel for noise it is the blue channel.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  37. #87
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    We really should run this test in September on the lighting workshop when all the players in backs are in the house and run a controlled test. By than Hassy will have improved there higher ISO with the Phocus software also
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  38. #88
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    You either want a forum where real users comment - or you can repeat the snide BS and fan boy attitudes that exists in other places - make up your minds. Reading stuff in here one would think that the test for a MFD is its high ISO performance shooting garden flora at 800.
    I don't disagree Peter... I was just trying to give folks what they wanted to see. Frankly, I think smooth green flora isn't the best subject to show noise either. As I indicated earlier in this thread, I think the real test is a McBeth card under controlled lighting so we can see how each color responds to each ISO. Since it's a readily available standard reference, other folks could shoot their own backs against it and compare results.

    The other factor, at least for me, is how all this translates to print output quality. To me, the ultimate goal is superb quality in a large print and how you get there really doesn't matter much to me...

    Lastly, I can't really think of a situation where I will need or want ISO 800 from my back, unless it is specifically to create additional noise! Though I do understand other folks have different requirements and that was why I did my best to post a comparable image to Thierry's ISO 800 sample. The test I am more interested in seeing for my purposes is noise on long exposures, like night-shot exposures of several minutes -- now that should be fun

    Edit: Obviously Guy posted before I finished ... But great point: if we have time, we could do this on the September lighting workshop since we'll have most backs well represented.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  39. #89
    Panopeeper
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    Gabor send me your email address and will do
    Mark, please don't send them to me, my email server does not accept so large files. If you upload them to yousendit.com, you receive a URL for downloading, and you can post that here, or send it to me through my profile.

    You don't need to register with yousendit, you don't even have to use yur own email address, use a fictional one as sender and recipient.

    I would like to see the apparently overexposed shots. I know, that Adobe Camera Raw adds +2 EV to ISO 800 shots made by the P45 Plus, thus making the shots appear overexposed. I have no idea, what Phocus is doing, I don't have it, but I look at the raw data anyway, without the raw processor. I understand, that yours is a different camera, but some software may mistreat its raw file.

    Thanks

  40. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    I will convert them to .dng and you can play with them in CS3 or another program if you like. Will do later.

    Jack and all, I just was shooting the leaves against the detailed wood fence to try to get something close to what Jack and others had shown. Ok. I will not do that.. i was just trying something to compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Panopeeper View Post
    Mark, please don't send them to me, my email server does not accept so large files. If you upload them to yousendit.com, you receive a URL for downloading, and you can post that here, or send it to me through my profile.

    You don't need to register with yousendit, you don't even have to use yur own email address, use a fictional one as sender and recipient.

    I would like to see the apparently overexposed shots. I know, that Adobe Camera Raw adds +2 EV to ISO 800 shots made by the P45 Plus, thus making the shots appear overexposed. I have no idea, what Phocus is doing, I don't have it, but I look at the raw data anyway, without the raw processor. I understand, that yours is a different camera, but some software may mistreat its raw file.

    Thanks

  41. #91
    Panopeeper
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Mark,

    please don't convert them. I will convert them myself, but I want to start out from the raw. I don't use ACR for this analysis, but Adobe's DNG converter.

    Thanks

  42. #92
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Don't know about earlier versions of ACR/Lightroom, but the current versions are *underexposing* all my P45+ files by about 1 stop, even the ISO 800 ones, while C1 nails them. FWIW, as tested and measured on McBeth gray patches.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  43. #93
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Jack,

    would you mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post

    Is it possible to have the full RAW of this shot?

    Thanks Jack,
    Thierry

  44. #94
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Sure Thiery, no problem. That file is on my office computer and I am leaving early tomorrow for a week, so it will be a bit before I can send it.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  45. #95
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Thank Jack, can be next week, I can wait.

    Appreciated!

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Sure Thiery, no problem. That file is on my office computer and I am leaving early tomorrow for a week, so it will be a bit before I can send it.

    Cheers,

  46. #96
    Panopeeper
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Don't know about earlier versions of ACR/Lightroom, but the current versions are *underexposing* all my P45+ files by about 1 stop, even the ISO 800 ones, while C1 nails them. FWIW, as tested and measured on McBeth gray patches.
    This is very strange. If you upload such a raw file, I take a look at it and at the way Adobe handles it.

  47. #97
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panopeeper View Post
    This is very strange. If you upload such a raw file, I take a look at it and at the way Adobe handles it.
    I will give you the URL too when I upload it.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  48. #98
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Charlie uses the 55-110 zoom pretty extensively for his landscape shooting. He also does NOT show 100% crops of files on his site! (And I know why ) Anyway, I was visiting Charlie and Bill Atkinson right after they got their P45's, and we were comparing their files directly to scanned 4x5, among others. (These files later made it into the Luminous Landscape file comparison DVD -- still available on the LL site I think if you want a copy.) The common comment from each of us was that the scanned 4x5 showed a bit more detail, but we all agreed you'd never see that tiny difference in a print. Even the differences we show in the side-by-sides in this thread would be difficult to detect in a print viewed normally...

    More to the point, this was almost two years ago and the raw converters have only improved -- back then, the P45 files did NOT show as much detail as what we're seeing now. Thus I am confident in claiming that this P45+ file is equal to or better than drum-scanned 4x5 from a detail rendering standpoint, which was pretty much my gold-standard target. Suffice it to say, I am really happy with my decision

    Cheers,
    Jack

    Unless I am missing the point I think we are in violent agreement. Both you and Charlie are using the same back (his only advantage is that he has been doing so for over two years! LOL) and both of you are getting great images. Compared to the Hassy H3D 39 only the details of the raw converters and the ergonomics of the body represent any real differences IMHO! It is my belief that both Phase and Hassy backs are capable of current SOTA performance and it is what must be done in PP to get the max out of these wonderful performers. In the end both (and probably Sinar, Leaf et al) will get you to almost the same place, personal preferences aside.

    If I am totally wrong I am sure someone will assure I am corrected vis a vis my errors. But I think that any shooter e.g a Charlie Cramer who is focussed on the ultimate image as opposed to the technology that gets us to that image will concur that the methodolgy is subservient to the vision of the shooter.

    I submit that I, a rank amateur at best, will get the best images my vision can conjur with either of these, or the other, 39 Mpx sensors. JMHO YMMV

    Woody

  49. #99
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Hi Woody!

    We are indeed in total agreement, as usual! The only part of your post I was addressing was your question on what lenses Charlie used, the rest was just follow on to that. Also totally agree that any of these latest generation MF DB's are state of the art in digital imaging. What's nice is we have multiple choices based on our individual needs
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  50. #100
    thsinar
    Guest

    Re: The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

    Woody,

    So it is, in terms of IQ, with very small differences. The important point being to know the material in and out.

    Beside this, other considerations come in play, not necessarily in order of importance:

    - Warranty (often big differences in terms of price for the same warranty period)

    - Service & Support (Here the dealer/distributor plays a big role: check them out)

    - Software and Workflow

    - Possibility to upgrade in the future to protect your investment

    - Possibility of the back to be adapted to different camera systems, MF or view cameras, letting open the change to another camera platform

    Best regards,
    Thierry


    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Jack

    I submit that I, a rank amateur at best, will get the best images my vision can conjur with either of these, or the other, 39 Mpx sensors. JMHO YMMV

    Woody

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •