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The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
So less than 24 hours ago, a well-used, but well cared for P45+ showed up at my door. (Thanks to Lance and Capture Integration!) Took me half a day to get used to processing the files, and clearly I've still got a lot to learn, but thought I'd share some images from todays test shoot. The images are NOT artistic. They are tests. This image was one of several tests for exposure and DR (and of course detail and color). The subject is clover on the floor of a California Redwood forrest, in full sun with shadows, at around Noon. LOTS of light in the bright area to nearly no light in those shadows, about 10 or 11 stops total range from dark to light in this particular image. Note that the brightest point on the frame in the tiff this jpeg was generated from hit 253 and the darkest hits 1.

First full frame to set the scene (and yes, I know it's ugly):



Here is the yellow crop area, 100% 750px X 750px area with direct sun and shadows to show detal:

 

lance_schad

Workshop Member
Jack enjoy the system! Looking to forward to you sharing virtues of it with everyone and creating beautiful images!!!!!
Have a good weekend.
L
 

David K

Workshop Member
Nothing like those early "Wow, I can't believe the resolution, DR, etc." moments. Looks good Jack, hope you enjoy it.
 

Terry

New member
Congratulations Jack,

This is all so exciting for me because there will be so much used equipment to choose from in a couple of years when I'm ready and all you guys are on to the next round of upgrades.:LOL:

Enjoy it. Cant wait until the next workshop but there are new rules....39mp can't be pointed at anyone's face close enough that a 100% crop is bigger than life size.:eek:
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Sorry guys, the full data for the above image is ISO 100, 1/40th at f11, 80mm lens on my Mamiya.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Congratulations Jack,

This is all so exciting for me because there will be so much used equipment to choose from in a couple of years when I'm ready and all you guys are on to the next round of upgrades.:LOL:

Enjoy it. Cant wait until the next workshop but there are new rules....39mp can't be pointed at anyone's face close enough that a 100% crop is bigger than life size.:eek:
:ROTFL: times 2!
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Jack,

would it be possible to make some tests with the P45+ at higher ISOs, up to 800 and with about the same light conditions as my own eMotion 75 ISO 800 (1/40th at f 5.6) with strong highlights and shadows?

That would be nice and we could have a nice comparison.

Thanks anyway,
Thierry

Sorry guys, the full data for the above image is ISO 100, 1/40th at f11, 80mm lens on my Mamiya.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Hi Lance,
Not just the virtues... We want the Good, the Bad and the Ugly too :)
So here you go with the ugly :D

This image was set up specifically as an ISO torture test. First the full image to give you the scale, then I'll explain the side-by-side crops:



Now for the details on this test. The main shot is ISO 100, 0.3 secs at f8, 80mm lens. For the high ISO, I went to 800 and used -1 EV, 1/50th at f8, then pushed in C1 +1 EV for an effective ISO 1600. Now to be honest, I expected the file to simply fall apart. But it didn't completely, and moreover it held together well enough to remain usable IMO. Not perfect for sure, but usable, especially keeping in mind the minute scale of detail you are looking at on this 100% crop. Also note that these were only processed in C1, though at slightly different settings for sharpening and noise, and NO 3rd party NR software run at all, which no doubt could do even better. The wind was blowing the ferns around, so there was some subject motion -- a real-life situation where the slow shutter speed versus higher ISO trade-offs needed to be considered. ISO 100 on left, ISO 1600 on right:



Cheers,
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thierry, here is an ISO 800 direct exposure, cropped similar to above. Exposure here was 1/25th at f8, and again, processed only in C1 and cropped in CS3, no 3rd party NR:

 

BJNY

Member
Jack,
It's simply terrible compared to Thierry's ISO 800 sample from his e75lv.
Isn't it obvious?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Maybe, but it's not the same shooting conditions nor the same processing, so no, it's not obvious to me... To wit, Thierry's shot does not contain anywhere near the fine detail in these shots, just a few big, broad leaves, and not much high frequency detail. To do a real comparison, we need to have the cameras side-by-side, shooting the same subject, then optimally process each so we can see net noise versus net detail. Until we can do that, we're comapring apples and peaches... I'll try and shoot a similar leaf to Thierry's over the next few days and I'll use my 110 F lens at f5.6 and try to have the lighting make a 1/40th sec exposure at ISO 800. That will be a better comparative than this image. Let's also keep in mind I have been fiddling with the software for all of a few hours, so there is likely more than a little user error here :)

Just found this. This has a broader leaf than the ferns, but still much smaller than Thierry's, but is from a different part of the same image as above. Looks a lot cleaner to me, and it's from the same file:

 
T

thsinar

Guest
Thanks Jack!

If I compare this now with my own ISO 800:

- my shot was taken at 1/40th at f 5.6, about 2/3 underexposed, thus 1/20th at f 5.6 1/3 at ISO 800

therefore I think we can easily compare the 2 from here:

Jack: I think you've done something the wrong way. I can't honestly believe that this is the best quality one can get at this ISO setting.

Best regards,
Thierry





So here you go with the ugly :D

This image was set up specifically as an ISO torture test. First the full image to give you the scale, then I'll explain the side-by-side crops:

Cheers,
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Congratulations Jack - great choice in back!

windy conditions = movement = apparent poor resolution lol @ pixel peepers.
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Jack,

I wish and hope that you could do another test, but frankly speaking, that isn't good in this 100% crops, even if there are smaller details in your shot, this won't change things, you've lost all kind of details, micro contrast and there are artifacts all over the image.

I am surprised and still thinking that this isn't what it should be.

here I found some smaller and finer details in my sample:

Best regards,
Thierry



Maybe, but it's not the same shooting conditions nor the same processing, so no, it's not obvious to me... To wit, Thierry's shot does not contain anywhere near the fine detail in these shots, just a few big, broad leaves, and not much high frequency detail. To do a real comparison, we need to have the cameras side-by-side, shooting the same subject, then optimally process each so we can see net noise versus net detail. Until we can do that, we're comapring apples and peaches... I'll try and shoot a similar leaf to Thierry's over the next few days and I'll use my 110 F lens at f5.6 and try to have the lighting make a 1/40th sec exposure at ISO 800. That will be a better comparative than this image.

Just found this. This has a broader leaf than the ferns, but still much smaller than THierry's, but is from a different part of the same image as above. Looks a lot cleaner to me, and it's from the same file:

 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thierry, how far away were you from your subject? I was about 10 meters at least form the leaf in the second image. I suspect you were a lot closer to your plant. I will try another plant in the coming week.

And yes, I really don't know what I'm doing yet. Also, this was a pretty windy outdoor setting if this image and th plants are moving quite a bit, so it's not detail I'm looking at in this one.
 

David K

Workshop Member
Thierry,
Every time I look at those ISO 800 shots of yours I check the clock to see how much longer I have to wait for my new back.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Congratulations Jack - great choice in back!

windy conditions = movement = apparent poor resolution lol @ pixel peepers.
Indeed, and the wind was blowing pretty well. I am looking at noise only in this one, not detail --- For detail, see the clovers above :)

Loving this back Peter -- a lot to be said for bolting it on the camera and shooting. Have not even cracked the instruction book, just fuddled my way through the on-screen menus and had it all set up in about three minutes, including the correct date and time! :D
 
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