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Thread: Why did you choose your back?

  1. #51
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethmeier View Post
    Marc,
    I can tell you right now that if Sinar didn't sell hundreds of these outfits,why would they bother?
    The Hy6 will be a success in the years to come,wether it's coupled to a Sinar,Leaf and maybe a Phase back.
    There are a lot of Phase owners,that would love to stick their back on a Hy6.
    It might not be a weddingshooters rig,however it does suit a lot of people.
    I have nothing again Phase or Leaf etc,I just choose the best system for my needs.
    End of story.
    Have a nice day,as they say in the US.
    Cheers,
    Willem.
    I agree there are a lot of Mamiya owners that would like to see this style of camera with a waist level option. The Hy6 is very nice in this regard, hopefully someday that will come for the Mamiya owners. At least have the option for it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  2. #52
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    It seems to me that it is improper to take one new user's difficulties with a product and then dismiss that product publicly based on that one day. Pretty much any product has a learning curve. I'm quite sure that some people who have never used a rangefinder won't pick up a Leica M8 and take great shots with it from the first day, yet I also know that this camera is capable of great results.

    I went to a Phase One demonstration in Sweden around 3 years ago where the dealer tried to show me the P45 working on a Cambo camera. After 20 minutes of trying to get the back to wake up even the dealer gave up. Do you see me repeating this story to the world telling them not to buy Phase One? No, I haven't told this story until now, and I only bring it up to illustrate my point. I also know that Phase products are capable of great results and are generally reliable. And I know that to bash the product based on this one experience would be grossly unfair.

    If you are going to call the Hy6 'finicky' or full of 'issues' based on one user's learning curve, then you can also dismiss Canon, Nikon, Leica, Hasselblad, Phase One, Leaf, Mamiya, etc. I have seen people having teething problems with ALL these products.

    I hope I am being fair and clear.

  3. #53
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,
    Have you noticed that there seems to be a right angle viewer accessory for the Mamiya finder. I wonder if that would be usable as a pseudo WLF until something better comes out. WLF is something that I miss from my old TLR days, not to mention the box brownie.
    -bob

  4. #54
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I was looking at that also Bob and maybe a option to use although not perfect you can at least get the camera below your eye and low.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  5. #55
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,

    it is your absolute right to do so, but I wish it could be with the right words.

    You had been reading and told about all the "issues" and that they had been addressed within less then 24 hours and David gave the necessary details and information why this happened. You even said that in this case all's fine.

    Then today you are speaking again about the "issues" suggesting again that the "issues" were back or camera related, when you know and have been explained the whole.

    Below you say again that "most" of the issues have gone away, implying that there are still "issues", and that there was a problem with the back. I am too much a "perfectionist" to let it stay: ALL the "issues" have been addressed, explained, clarified. And NO, there was NOT a problem with the back. I would be the first one to tell it if it would be the case, but it wasn't or isn't.

    I am sorry Guy, if I am sounding "penetrant", but it is my duty to correct such.

    As Jack has written it in the other thread: "let me a month time to get used to this new back before bashing on me". Let David this month time as well to get used to his gear before jumping to conclusions. I don't believe that there are 2 standards to make judgements, are there?

    Thanks for your understanding.
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Basically that is all i was saying not knocking Sinar or anyone so let's get the record straight, what I saw and what others witnessed was David was struggling and losing images having images corrupted and things like this . As Marc points out I don't need a finicky camera. Now there was some problems with this back and 12 witnesses on site . Yes most of his issues have gone away and whatever it was either Davids learning curve or something wrong he struggled and if anyone on this board feels i am off base , sorry it was what we saw and what lead me to make my comment. I will NOT sit here and avoid that issue he was having. Not saying it will happen ever again either but everyone else picked up the Phase backs all week without a issue at all. Now how would anyone look at this. I do think the Sinar folks are being over defensive, **** happens guys let's face the facts and it could have happened to any system. Ever system i owned had issues of some nature. Hell I had Canon, Nikon, DMR and let's not forget the mother of issues the M8. Love them all but they all had something funky going on. One other note David had the old back and not the new one which he is getting and i hope it is a better back than what was on site. But let's not forget software in all this.

    Now let's end the misery right now also Peter felt slighted in some way from a dealer, that is his right and what he felt . It is not a grave acquisition but what he felt is wrong and he has the right to say so. His opinion and his feelings and frankly he does not need to explain it either. Thierry understandable wants to know who and wants to solve that issue , again that is his job at Sinar and he has that right also. But i think we are making this all to grave looking also. Hell guy's **** happens in all walks in this business. Let me add one more thing if i had the money for the Sinar what I saw would not stop me from buying it either if i felt it would work in my behave. There freaking sexy as can be and have awesome glass but like any system i want it to work and have the support for it and that would enter into my buying decision as it did with the Phase. You have to look at my comments as one of the owners and instructors of a workshop where my client David was not having fun with his gear and just for the record it made Jack and I not happy to watch him struggle. At the end of the day i offered him a 30 percent discount for any workshop he wanted to join us on. You have to put yourself in my shoes to understand what my comments are not that i don't want anyone to buy a Sinar far from it. I would love others as well to buy them but I want folks to be happy with there gear.

    Please let's move on and let this die , it really serves not much purpose at this point. It's out there and not a big deal either. But i would like to hear more on this topic because it is very interesting to learn what prompted decisions on these backs and we have a lot of folks looking at buying, so let's help them.

  6. #56
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    can I suggest that any sinar issues, or sinar dealer/dealership issues and discussions be moved to a separate thread?

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    can I suggest that any sinar issues, or sinar dealer/dealership issues and discussions be moved to a separate thread?
    You've got my vote, although it seems to me that this particular subject has run it's course.

  8. #58
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I agree and Thierry your being way over sensitive to this issue, time to move on. All systems have issues period and i said that several times but I am not going to sit here and listen that it is all David's fault and let's just leave it at that. We all here to learn and that is what this forum is about, it is not about what other forums maybe and personally no system is perfect or we would all have the same one. Sinar is not perfect Thierry you know that as well as i do but neither is Phase , Aptus or Hassy, there is no need to defend it to the end of time here. Time to let it go.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #59
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,

    I will move on. But I never said that the Sinar system is perfect, in the contrary. I have said and written, with my name as a signature and many times, that no system is perfect and that all have issues one day or another, included Sinar. It is not at all about this, and I think you do understand what I am meaning.

    It is about a particular wording which is misleading and suggesting other than the reality.

    Guy, I am not too sensitive, simply too concerned by the truth and real picture. If I would have the time to "defend" another brand, if it needed to be defended, I would do it, and from time to time I even do. But as my time is limited and surfing here on the forum is not a duty or a job, I am concentrating on Sinar and making sure that as little as possible is left to the doubt and to the lack of information.

    I have no motivation to let it go until the end of time. So yes, that's it.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I agree and Thierry your being way over sensitive to this issue, time to move on. All systems have issues period and i said that several times but I am not going to sit here and listen that it is all David's fault and let's just leave it at that. We all here to learn and that is what this forum is about, it is not about what other forums maybe and personally no system is perfect or we would all have the same one. Sinar is not perfect Thierry you know that as well as i do but neither is Phase , Aptus or Hassy, there is no need to defend it to the end of time here. Time to let it go.

  10. #60
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Thierry my words sometimes are a little stronger than my meaning. Most folks know this and please don't take any offense at all, not my intention whatsoever. Just a Italian from New Jersey and i grew up on the street for a good chunk of my life. You need to speak tough sometimes to survive but I am really a pussycat. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #61
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I do have a question though on Sinar with all the backs the 54 and 75 are they the same kind of sensor. i know there Dalsa but are there micro lenses on one of the like the Phase or Hassy system like the H331 and P30 plus. Also is there a reflex viewer available or is it only Waist level. One other question besides the Rollie lens mount can you bolt say a Hassy V lens via a adapter or something of that nature.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  12. #62
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I see, so we both have latin blood in our veins!



    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thierry my words sometimes are a little stronger than my meaning. Most folks know this and please don't take any offense at all, not my intention whatsoever. Just a Italian from New Jersey and i grew up on the street for a good chunk of my life. You need to speak tough sometimes to survive but I am really a pussycat. LOL

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,
    Can't speak to the sensor issue but with regard to the viewer and adapters the answer is yes, there's both 45 and 90 degree prism finders (only the 45 degree works with the revolving back) and adapter plates are available for Hasselblad, in fact I have one, still unopened, as I am thinking that I might prefer to have one for my Mamiya RZ kit. I also have an adapter plate which I have used with my Contax 645. Very simple to change these plates... three screws if I recall correctly and only a matter of minutes to do it. Wouldn't recommend doing this on the beach with blowing sand, but otherwise a piece of cake.

  14. #64
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,

    1. the eMotion 54 LV and the eMotion 75 as well as the eMotion 75 LV do all use Dalsa sensors.

    None of our backs did or do use a sensor with micro-lenses (yet, and don't see any indication for the future, juste to be sure not to be proven wrong one day! ).

    2. The Sinar Hy6 has 2 view finders:

    - a 45 prism finder, which is the modified finder from the Rolleiflex 6008 (modified to fit mechanically and to allow the revolution of the back with the Sinar revolving adapter).

    - a 90 mirror finder, which is new and available end of July, begin of August, according to my latest information.

    3. There is no adapter currently to mount a Hassy V lens on the Sinar Hy6.


    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I do have a question though on Sinar with all the backs the 54 and 75 are they the same kind of sensor. i know there Dalsa but are there micro lenses on one of the like the Phase or Hassy system like the H331 and P30 plus. Also is there a reflex viewer available or is it only Waist level. One other question besides the Rollie lens mount can you bolt say a Hassy V lens via a adapter or something of that nature.

  15. #65
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    David,

    My understanding was that Guy was asking about adapters for the V system lenses.

    Guy: did I misunderstood'

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Guy,
    Can't speak to the sensor issue but with regard to the viewer and adapters the answer is yes, there's both 45 and 90 degree prism finders (only the 45 degree works with the revolving back) and adapter plates are available for Hasselblad, in fact I have one, still unopened, as I am thinking that I might prefer to have one for my Mamiya RZ kit. I also have an adapter plate which I have used with my Contax 645. Very simple to change these plates... three screws if I recall correctly and only a matter of minutes to do it. Wouldn't recommend doing this on the beach with blowing sand, but otherwise a piece of cake.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    ....there's both 45 and 90 degree prism finders (only the 45 degree works with the revolving back)....
    Thierry, 90 finder will allow revolving of back, yes?

  17. #67
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Yes, Billy, both the 45 modified for the Hy6 and the new 90 will allow the revolving of the back without having to take it away.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Thierry, 90 finder will allow revolving of back, yes?

  18. #68
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I was asking about lenses yes but info on backs was good on the adapter plates also. No Mamiya mounts though I would assume, correct. Plus Hassy would have to be the H2 I would assume
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Sorry for posting my misunderstanding about the ability to revolve the back with both finders. Thierry, you must get weary of correcting so much misinformation. Glad you were here to set things right. In the future I think I'll just let you respond to these questions

  20. #70
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Of course there is also a Mamiya adapter for our backs, including for the eMotion series:

    - Mamiya RZ 67 Adapter Kit
    - Mamiya 645 AFD Adapter Kit
    - Mamiya 645 Pro Adapter Kit

    And yes, there is also a Hasselblad V system adapter, beside the H1/H2 adapters, for all Sinarbacks, included the eMotion series:

    - Hasselblad V Adapter Kit
    - Hasselblad H1/H2 Adapter Kit

    As well as, there are adapters for all common MF platform/camera models:

    - Contax 645 Adapter Kit
    - Sinar m Adapter Kit
    - Rollei 6008 Adapter Kit

    And for the other Sinarbacks other than the eMotion series:

    - Fuji GX 680 Adapter Kit
    - Sinar p3 Adapter Kit
    - Mamiya RB 67 Adapter Kit
    - Graflock Adapter Kit
    - Sinar 4x5 Adapter Kit

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I was asking about lenses yes but info on backs was good on the adapter plates also. No Mamiya mounts though I would assume, correct. Plus Hassy would have to be the H2 I would assume

  21. #71
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    it's alright, David. I was myself not sure if I did misunderstand or not.

    Thanks, and no need to let me make the "work" alone, all help is appreciated!



    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Sorry for posting my misunderstanding about the ability to revolve the back with both finders. Thierry, you must get weary of correcting so much misinformation. Glad you were here to set things right. In the future I think I'll just let you respond to these questions

  22. #72
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Another way of looking at Hy6 Rollei/Sinar Lenses..... you can use all Lenses on ALPA Cameras if I'm not mistaken I don't think you can do that with Cambo, Horseman, Gottschalt etc. cameras.....

  23. #73
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    My decision to buy an eMotion 22 Jenoptik (now Sinar) almost 4 years ago was rather spontaneous. I did not have any digital cameras at the moment, I was shooting my Fuji rangefinders and LF 4x5 and 8x10 film for pleasure and was happy. Five years ago I bought an ALPA SWA with a 48mm. Helvetar lens as a travel camera and felt liberated, I was able to travel light to various locations locally and abroad. Than the X-rays destroyed my 120 film at on of the airports and a friend suggested me a DSLR as a modern solution. I tried some Canons and did not like the experience. ALPA had a page on the web-site with some digital backs and adapters recommended by them and Jenoptik eMotion was in the list. I ordered the eMotion through the Russian Sinar-Bron dealer and I happened to be the first e22 owner in Russia.

    The learning curve was steep, I had some experience with some scanning software and no digital knowledge. Fortunately, there was the RG forum and I accumulated knowledge there. I had zero help from the dealer, the Jenoptik product was new for them and it took me 6 month to get the correct colors from Software. A photographer in Paris spent with me an hour and I understood the CapturePro.

    Why I chose the Jenoptik back? It was in the V-mount, did not require a special cable to wake it up on an ALPA, had an internal memory and a SF card slot and I had a Hasselblad 503 to mount it. (in 2007 I upgraded the back to LV).
    3 years ago a scanning shop we used closed down, and I decided to use my Alpa with eMotion 22 to copy paintings. I added too Digitars and bought a Rollei 90mm. Makro lens with the Rollei-Alpa adapter. When I damaged my Jenoptik back accidentally I had to send it to Sinar to repair and left without back for 2 month (Sinar returned the brand new Sinar eMotion 22 with the Sinar Logo for the price of Euro1400 , a pleasant surprise). A Friend offered me a Rolleiflex 6008AF with the db20 Phase One for a good price and I bought it after a week of shooting. At the moment I already had 2 Rollei lenses and the price of the combo was too good to miss. I did like the lenses and I was astound with the ease of use the Phase One offered. No problems with the white balance, the files were almost ready for print without corrections, sharpening already applied, files were contrasty and beautiful. It was a dream of an amateur come true. Contra: I did not like the square format, I was unable to mount the back on the ALPA, I did not like the crop factor. I did not like the transition from light grey to black.

    I tried to live with the db20 and even bought the Rollei X-Act view camera with the Swing and Slide adapter to use my Rollei lenses with the movements. I was disappointed, the focusing with the 45 finder was difficult, the back had no live view, the real estate of the sensor too small. So I returned to my ALPA copying gear with my new eMotion 22. Sold my X-Act and db20.

    When I was using two brands alongside I realised that the two companies had different philosophies: Phase one is a Set Lunch and Sinar is a la carte. But both are well cooked and delicious.

    I still cannot honestly answer the question, would I have bought a Phase One version of Rolleiflex Hy6. The pre-cooked diner is easy.

    Now I use two Sinar backs : an eMotion 54LV and a Sinarback 54H on 3 platforms, ALPA + Sinar-M+Rolleiflex Hy6. 22mpx. is enough for me (now?).

    Sorry for the long post.
    Yevgeny, Russia

  24. #74
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I need to add something here that i think is really really important in making these buy decisions and that is the software that each back company has and how it fits in your workflow. I think this is a major role in deciding what you are going to do. Little easy for me since I used C1 from the 1ds days but each back has it's own software and some can see other programs as well like ACR,Lightroom and Aperture. i would suggest to anyone thinking about this and downloading a demo and try each program out and see if it fits you and the back you are interested in. There are plenty folks here that would be happy to send some raw files that are not important to try your hand at processing what back you maybe interested in. But I am pretty sure demo downloads are available for you to try these different programs
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  25. #75
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Thank you all again for continuing to add your insights and wisdom to the question I posed that started this thread. I have learned a great deal from you on what you paid attention to such that you made your decisions the way you did. I must also say that I have learned something very important from all of you and that it is a bit of a surprise to me: the importance of a trusting relationship with the person/company selling you the digital back.

    While each of us may have our reasons for agreeing with this last statement, mine is especially important to me in that I live in a place in the middle of Wisconsin that has no dealers who work with the P21+ (which is, again, what I'm leaning to quite strongly) within a half-day drive from me, the closest is in Chicago. The photographic work I do does not particularly call for speed in image capture (most of it is what I'd call fine art nature photography), and I'm rarely on a tight deadline schedule for when something needs to be shot; my deadlines tend to be on the print side, my clients need x number of prints by such and such date. The equipment I have used to date has all been purchased from dealers via the internet with whom I have no personal relationship. BUT, from what I am reading from several of you on the MFDB issue, relationship with the dealer might just be issue #1.

    Prior to this thread, I had myself in the frame of mind that (like Canon or Nikon DSLRs) all of these backs come off of an assembly line where they are put together with exacting specifications, processes, and tolerances, and that, therefore, if a back passes inspection in the factory, it's highly likely that the item will work as designed. Sometimes things can still go very wrong (like the M8 problems that have been mostly fixed), I think maybe I've lived a mostly charmed life in that I've had very few episodes with equipment (cameras and otherwise), and when I did, the experiences of getting the equipment serviced went pretty well. What I've learned here though is that this is most definetly maybe not the case, that sometimes backs can indeed be finicky, or the fit between the back and the camera body can be finicky, or whatever it is that can go less than optimally, and that therefore, a key criterion for the decision is the reliability and responsiveness of the company from whom I purchase the back to begin with...especially because I don't have a company to work with that's just down the road. So, a great lesson. Thank you.

  26. #76
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Ray since you want to go Phase than i would suggest talking with Lance from CI and if Hassy, Aptus or Sinar than talk to Steve both great members here and great dealers that will help you along the way. From all I heard of Steve a really good guy, lance is my Phase dealer and I have a very positive experience so these are some good folks to at least chat with.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #77
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    While we are on the subject of getting questions answered, I have one regarding the Hy6 for whoever can answer it definitively, then I will move on to why I chose my system: In doing all my research before buying my outfit, I gathered a reference to the included 80mm lens not accurately autofocusing on the Hy6 and that this was "known issue," though no comment about how or when it was planned on being corrected. Since I've never seen it mentioned by the manufacturer, can somebody that knows clarify first if it's true and if it is, is it a mechanical or firmware issue?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  28. #78
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Why I chose the P45+:

    1) UI -- the Phase UI was extremely easy for me to understand without referring to the manual, the Leaf next and Sinar less so...

    2) Dealer support and confidence -- all my questions were answered promptly and professionally -- frankly I found this to be the case with everybody I was talking to, so all even up for me.

    3) File detail -- this is why the larger backs were in my decision process: P45+, Leaf 75S and Sinar 75. (Note: The Hassy H3D 39 would have been under consideration too, but I decided early on I did NOT want to invest in a closed system which left it out for me.) I liked them all, but found the Phase to offer the most fine detail, while the Leaf offered a somewhat "smoother" and more pleasing file to my eye, and the Sinar somewhere in-between. Admittedly these differences I am describing are minute and likely different based on an individual's viewing preferences, so again this was MY impression.

    4) Color. All were awesome, especially when compared to any of the DSLR offerings.

    5) Software and workflow -- was it easy, intuitive and did it work with full functionality without secondary programs or additional hardware dongles required. Here the Phase back and C1 won hands down for me.

    Off to the beach and breakfast now, will add more about my camera platform choice later.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Hi, Thierry,

    Can you tell me more about the "45 modified for the Hy6"? Is this the normal Hy6 45 finder we see in the recent photograph you posted of the Hy6 and all the lenses, or is this a 6008 finder modified to work on the Hy6?

    If the latter, where can I find more information about this modification?

    Thanks,
    Brad

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    Yes, Billy, both the 45 modified for the Hy6 and the new 90 will allow the revolving of the back without having to take it away.

    Thierry

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy, Thank you, yes, I'm already sending notes back and forth with Lance. Just sent one off to him moments ago, actually.

    Jack, thanks too for your thoughts on this. I'm finding the "minute" differences to be the one's I'm having the most difficulty with to tell you the truth. I'm just not keen on making a wrong decision on this one! By the time I'm done with acquiring the back this will be a substantial chunk of change invested in all of this and I'd have to hurt myself if I screw this up.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Yevgeny, thank you for the note. It sounds like you had some tough choices along the way and had lots to think about too. Thank you.

  32. #82
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RayM View Post
    Guy, Thank you, yes, I'm already sending notes back and forth with Lance. Just sent one off to him moments ago, actually.

    Jack, thanks too for your thoughts on this. I'm finding the "minute" differences to be the one's I'm having the most difficulty with to tell you the truth. I'm just not keen on making a wrong decision on this one! By the time I'm done with acquiring the back this will be a substantial chunk of change invested in all of this and I'd have to hurt myself if I screw this up.
    Ray this is more like the difference between the Kodak and Dalsa. Kodak i can speak more about since both the DMR and M8 comes from Kodak. this is a really easy call Kodachrome is the bottom line in look . Nice rich color great saturation and tone. Great detail also. I think the Dalsa maybe smoother looking in tone and sometime you will hear fashion shooters prefer it more but these are really small differences also. i would not concern myself too much about this because some of this can be done in post.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  33. #83
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    How about with Mamiya glass.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Kodak i can speak more about since both the DMR and M8 comes from Kodak. this is a really easy call Kodachrome is the bottom line in look . Nice rich color great saturation and tone.
    The Kodachrome look is attributable to your Leica glass perhaps.

    I've viewed hundreds of thousands of files captured with Kodak sensors,
    and not once did I think of the Kodachrome palette/look.

  35. #85
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    Hi, Thierry,

    Can you tell me more about the "45 modified for the Hy6"? Is this the normal Hy6 45 finder we see in the recent photograph you posted of the Hy6 and all the lenses, or is this a 6008 finder modified to work on the Hy6?

    If the latter, where can I find more information about this modification?

    Thanks,
    Brad

    Brad,
    The base of the Rollei finders are keyed on the bottom to tell the camera which is fitted but otherwise modular and come off with 4 screws. The camera then knows whether to reverse the information display or not so you can read it with whatever finder or WLF you have fitted. I'll bet you a jumpdrive that all that is being changed from the 6000 series to the Hy6 is the base...and if that were the case then one would be able to do this exchange on their own in a couple minutes.
    Eric

  36. #86
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethmeier View Post
    Marc,

    There are a lot of Phase owners,that would love to stick their back on a Hy6.

    Cheers,
    Willem.
    I agree I am one of them Although not yet the owner of Hy6 I love the concept to be able to have one system and use Rollei/Sinar Lenses on ALPA Cameras etc., in addition to that you can use SINAR DB's with almost every camera on the market if you happen to change your mind or you simply like to Mix different looks/quality

    However, I didn't buy my MFDB system because of an idea even though I really like Hy6. As I said before.... I made my purchase based on convenience!!!

    I don't think potential buyers of Hasselblad/Leaf/Sinar/Phase need scientific approach in terms of quality, all of us know they all come more or less with a enough sodium to hurt our cardiovascular muscles

    For me it was simple..... before you make your FINAL DECISION, ask around where can you rent and what make MFDB for a job? Let it be any corner of the world..... Your answer is more likely to be PHASE!!! So in that respect, you are more than safe with your investment! At least for me and number of my friends, we truly felt at peace with our investments
    Last edited by Natasa Stojsic; 9th June 2008 at 14:49.

  37. #87
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post
    Now I use two Sinar backs : an eMotion 54LV and a Sinarback 54H on 3 platforms, ALPA + Sinar-M+Rolleiflex Hy6. 22mpx. is enough for me (now?).

    Sorry for the long post.
    Yevgeny, Russia

    Yevgeny, let me repeat:


    eMotion 54LV
    Sinarback 54H

    ALPA
    Rolleiflex Hy6:
    Sinar-M

    You must be hiding your Nikon D3 or in future D3x somewhere... and you know why, right?

    You got me started, I would love to have all of the above only with Phase at the moment!!!

    I don't personally think you can get more complete and integrated going any other direction..... if anyone disagrees, please advice

    Yevgeny, what about lenses for each system?
    Last edited by Natasa Stojsic; 9th June 2008 at 14:54.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    ...
    You got me started, I would love to have all of the above only with Phase at the moment!!!

    I don't personally think you can get more complete and integrated going any other direction..... if anyone disagrees, please advice
    Hi Natasa,

    Wow, I was starting to think Marc Williams was making a great case for the Hasselblad system, but it is good to now hear your opinions on the benefits of the Phase.

    Thanks!

    David

  39. #89
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Hi Natasa,

    Wow, I was starting to think Marc Williams was making a great case for the Hasselblad system, but it is good to now hear your opinions on the benefits of the Phase.
    Oh, I thought she was praising the integration of the Sinar back across the Hy6, Alpa and Sinar M

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Exactly....my feeble attempt at humor.

    David

  41. #91
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Exactly....my feeble attempt at humor.

    David
    Humor is healthy So at least you tried, better luck next time

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Humor is healthy So at least you tried, better luck next time
    Sure thing....So, are you really happy with your Phase back system? or, given the right opportunity, would you trade it in for a Sinar back system? In fact, let's say that you would not lose even one euro in a hypothetical trade/transaction, which back/system would you prefer?

    David

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    My closed system H3D11-39 back works nicely on my Alpa bodies and any view camera I care to use. I dont need any more 'open' than this - maybe I m too closed minded. LOL

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I have been agonizing over this situation for weeks.

    Obviously finding a 39 Mpx back is a simple exercise. If you like the Kodak sensor look you can get the exact same sensor in both the Phase P45+ or the Hassy H3D II. Or you can get comparable resolution from the Dalsa sensors in the Aptus and eMotion backs. All are very comparable performers.

    There are a number of very positive attributes of the H3D system not the least of which is the ability to delay the shutter until the mirror has stopped vibrating and you can still work in low light. Love this feature! Other features to be praised are each back individually calibrated to the body for absolute most accurate focus. This is a real world issue which needs to be addressed. And finally the ergonomics........for me the H3D is worlds ahead of Mamiya in this regard. Downside to Hassy is the closed system approach. If you want to use your back on other cameras, e.g. Horseman or Alpa for stitched panos you are basically hosed. And based on the way things are implemented you can't even use the system for your FE lenses! A real shame for those of us who believe the Hassy 110 2.0 may be the best portrait lens out there. And to believe i can use it on my Mamiya.........go figure!

    The Mamiya Phase approach allows the use of C CFE and FE lenses with little issue. I love this since these are some of my most favorite lenses ever. And you have access to the new up and coming Mamiya digital lenses as well as the entire arsenal of older lenses at very low prices. There is no reason to be concerned about the older Mamiya issues e.g. Auto Focus since the new AFD III D now uses three point auto focus with a much improved AF focus motor to get to the correct focus quickly. The new body from Phase (Mamiya) has resolved most of the old issues and is competitive with the best out there. It has a real system approach and doesn't just deal with "fixing" problems which have been long known.

    I really think that Hasselblad has gone a bit wrong with the closed system approach. It is hard to understand how this benefits the customer so most folks believe it is only good for the Company. Not a good position to find yourself in! Think about it!

    So at the end of the day I chose the Mamiya/Phase approach. I have no images as yet so it remains to be seen if my analysis holds up in the real world environment. I can only say that I was super impressed with what I got with my old Mamiya 7II as I was with my older Hassy 503 system. Both companies are excellent performers so it is up to your priorities to decide if you can assume which is the best for you in this modern digital world.

    I will continue to post both images and impressions about the performance of the Mamiya Phase system. There is no simple way to analyze the best of the best in these regards. But I will do my best to provide guidance for people moving in the same direction. God bless all of you who will spend in excess of $34K to get into this realm.

    Look forward to continuing this discussion when I have real results to share

    Best

    Woody

    One thing I want to say for sure. Both Lance Schad at Capture integration and Steve Hendrix at PPR are amazing dealers. They work really hard for you and are tremendously dedicated to helping you towards your personal best solutions based on how you describe your problems. Wonderfully knowledgeable and focussed on results for you. Same for Sean Cranor at Camera West in Monterey CA. Trust these guys to do the right thing for you. I wish I had always dealt with dealers this good

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Woody - I use my H3D11-39 on my Alpa. I dont understand why people think you cant..yes you need to use the external hard drive to power the back. I like using this hardrive - gives me 100 gig worth of storage and fits in my pocket. In fact I pretty much use the hard Still drive permanently even with H body shooting...much faster speeds than any CF card.
    Still - if people want to think of H series as closed - so be it.Just another example of internet forum BS and mythology.Wont change my image capture workflow one iota! LOL


    Pete

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Woody,
    Best of luck with your new back... I'm glad you'll still be able to use the Hassy 110 f/2 which I know you love so well.

  47. #97
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    hi Brad,

    The 45 prism finder you have seen in my snapshots of the Hy6 camera system is the 6008 finder, modified mechanically to fit the Hy6: so yes, it is both the one you see in the photograph posted as well as the 6008 modified one.

    This 45 has been released and does ship, though there might be some waiting time since we have quite some backorders.

    The 45 prismfinder (as well as the 90) do allow that one can use the revolving adapter and revolve the back without taking it away.

    Addendum: Furthermore, the 45 Prism Finder can be put over the focusing screen not only in the usual way looking to the rear of the camera, it can also be mounted in any of the four directions: looking to the rear, to the left, to the right and even to the front.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    Hi, Thierry,

    Can you tell me more about the "45 modified for the Hy6"? Is this the normal Hy6 45 finder we see in the recent photograph you posted of the Hy6 and all the lenses, or is this a 6008 finder modified to work on the Hy6?

    If the latter, where can I find more information about this modification?

    Thanks,
    Brad
    Last edited by thsinar; 9th June 2008 at 19:38.

  48. #98
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    . . . . Downside to Hassy is the closed system approach. If you want to use your back on other cameras, e.g. Horseman or Alpa for stitched panos you are basically hosed. . . .
    I started a thread a bit back on using my Hasselblad 39 back on my Horseman. Look here. Bottom line: works great. I agree with PeterA that using the Imagebank is as much of a plus as a minus.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Thierry,
    The ability to mount the 45 degree finder in any direction sounds pretty cool to me. Not something I'd use often but I've had several shoots where that would have come in very handy. I wonder how the image would look thru the finder if it's rotated 90 degrees...

  50. #100
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Aha! That clears up my confusion, thank you!

    Glad to hear the Hy6 45 finder is shipping! I've put in an order with my dealer for it. Let's see how long the backlog takes!

    Out of curiosity, does the Hy6 prism finder look any different from the modified 6008 finder you have shown?

    Best regards,
    -Brad

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    hi Brad,

    The 45 prism finder you have seen in my snapshots of the Hy6 camera system is the 6008 finder, modified mechanically to fit the Hy6: so yes, it is both the one you see in the photograph posted as well as the 6008 modified one.

    This 45 has been released and does ship, though there might be some waiting time since we have quite some backorders.

    The 45 prismfinder (as well as the 90) do allow that one can use the revolving adapter and revolve the back without taking it away.

    Addendum: Furthermore, the 45 Prism Finder can be put over the focusing screen not only in the usual way looking to the rear of the camera, it can also be mounted in any of the four directions: looking to the rear, to the left, to the right and even to the front.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

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