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Thread: Why did you choose your back?

  1. #101
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Brad,

    the one I have shown is a pre-series model and I was told the series would look the same.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    PS: here a pic how the series model looks (screenshot from a small image, sorry for the resolution)

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    Aha! That clears up my confusion, thank you!

    Glad to hear the Hy6 45 finder is shipping! I've put in an order with my dealer for it. Let's see how long the backlog takes!

    Out of curiosity, does the Hy6 prism finder look any different from the modified 6008 finder you have shown?

    Best regards,
    -Brad

  2. #102
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I opted for the 90 degree mirror box finder that will be released in August.
    More usefull to me than the 45 degree
    Cheers,
    $2100 AUD OUCH!
    Willem.

  3. #103
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    Cool Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    I agree I am one of them Although not yet the owner of Hy6 I love the concept to be able to have one system and use Rollei/Sinar Lenses on ALPA Cameras etc., in addition to that you can use SINAR DB's with almost every camera on the market if you happen to change your mind or you simply like to Mix different looks/quality

    However, I didn't buy my MFDB system because of an idea even though I really like Hy6. As I said before.... I made my purchase based on convenience!!!

    I don't think potential buyers of Hasselblad/Leaf/Sinar/Phase need scientific approach in terms of quality, all of us know they all come more or less with a enough sodium to hurt our cardiovascular muscles

    For me it was simple..... before you make your FINAL DECISION, ask around where can you rent and what make MFDB for a job? Let it be any corner of the world..... Your answer is more likely to be PHASE!!! So in that respect, you are more than safe with your investment! At least for me and number of my friends, we truly felt at peace with our investments
    Hi Natasa,

    I'm looking at the Phase One 645, P30+ & Hasselblad 110mm f/2.0 combo.

    I've noticed you use the same back. Can you capture and apply a custom grey card WB in/with the Phase or do you only have this option in post/C1

    This is the work flow I use with the Canon and hope to continue with the Phase.

    Thanks
    MANA WAIRUA

  4. #104
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Dear Natasa,
    No, I do not own any of DSLRs, neither Nikon nor Canon. I am just a mere amateur and my eyes are bad. I do not like to see the world through a tunnel.http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/images...es/redface.gif

    I have all four Sinaron Digital AF lenses (40-80-120 Makro-180) and a Manual 120mm makro in the V-mount. My intention was to buy only 120mm AF Sinaron (all 4 lenses are Zeiss) for copying work. The Sinar dealer offered me the whole system with a free 40mm. lens ($12,000=00 discount) and I HAD to buy the System. All lenses are exceptional and allow shooting wide open. I am not a people shooter and we rent the camera with lenses very often with either the eMotion 54LV or 54H. The Pros are happy with the quality. The bottom battery is heavy and I use a belt battery now. We are waiting a smaller side battery later this summer.
    Thierry of Sinar helped me a lot when I was trying to decide what camera to choose for multi-shot work.

    BTW I can offer the M-system free for the members of this Forum if they need to shoot in Moscow. Welcome!http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/images...es/redface.gif

    ALPA lenses: 35mm Digitar, 45mm. Alpar, 24mm Digitar. The 24mm was damaged and does not allow focusing. I sold my Helvetar and 60mm. digitars in 2007.

    Rollei 6008 lenses: 90mm Makro, 3,5/40mm., 2.8/80AF, 2,8/180 AF. I am trying to find an AF version of the 150mm lens. I use the lenses on the HY6 Rolleiflex version with an un-revolving adapter. Unfortunately the HY6 does not support my 54H multi-shot (only eVolution 75H is supported).

    Russia is a very strange market for digibacks and MFD. The dominating platform for professionals is Sinar (44H, 54H and 54M on all types of cameras, Contax is the most popular), Phase One became the DB of choice for younger generation of photographers (the owner of Moscow Academy of photography is the Russia PhaseOne/ ProPhoto dealer). Hasselblad H3D is very popular with amateurs.

    Regards,
    Yevgeny

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Yevgeny, let me repeat:


    eMotion 54LV
    Sinarback 54H

    ALPA
    Rolleiflex Hy6:
    Sinar-M

    You must be hiding your Nikon D3 or in future D3x somewhere... and you know why, right?


    Yevgeny, what about lenses for each system?

  5. #105
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post
    BTW I can offer the M-system free for the members of this Forum if they need to shoot in Moscow. Welcome!
    Bolshoe spasibo! It is only a matter of time before I come to visit Moscow. I don't think I'd like to walk around a strange city with someone else's Sinar M though

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Bolshoe spasibo! It is only a matter of time before I come to visit Moscow. I don't think I'd like to walk around a strange city with someone else's Sinar M though
    Welcome!
    I will find you a minder!
    Yevgeny

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by elitegroup View Post
    Hi Natasa,

    I'm looking at the Phase One 645, P30+ & Hasselblad 110mm f/2.0 combo.

    I've noticed you use the same back. Can you capture and apply a custom grey card WB in/with the Phase or do you only have this option in post/C1

    This is the work flow I use with the Canon and hope to continue with the Phase.

    Thanks
    David,
    I note this is your first post here and welcome you to the forum. I've seen your swimsuit shots over on LL (which were quite spectacular) and I'm sure the members here would love to see it as well. Also, always nice to have another David in the group.

  8. #108
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by elitegroup View Post
    Hi Natasa,

    I'm looking at the Phase One 645, P30+ & Hasselblad 110mm f/2.0 combo.

    I've noticed you use the same back. Can you capture and apply a custom grey card WB in/with the Phase or do you only have this option in post/C1

    This is the work flow I use with the Canon and hope to continue with the Phase.

    Thanks
    Morning and welcome to the forum. As far as custom WB you sure can still work in the same fashion. That combo would be very nice for fashion also. May want to even look at the new lens coming for Mamiya a 150 2.8 D lens expensive but maybe perfect for fashion.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #109
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Morning and welcome to the forum. As far as custom WB you sure can still work in the same fashion. That combo would be very nice for fashion also. May want to even look at the new lens coming for Mamiya a 150 2.8 D lens expensive but maybe perfect for fashion.
    Any reason not to consider the Hasselblad 150mm F2.8 (a nice focal length for beauty) if one has the adapter to fit the 110mm.
    Last edited by BJNY; 10th June 2008 at 06:16.

  10. #110
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    If your shooting a Mamiya body why use stop down if you don't have too. Billy i shot fashion for years and even with 300mm lenses there are no set lenses for this type of work, I used everything from 28mm up. Just depends on what type of fashion you are shooting and the look your after. i love the compression of a 300mm lens . I also shot portraits with a 180mm F2 Apo Leica on my DMR which effectively is a 240mm.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #111
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Back to the main thrust of this thread which is "why did you choose your back?"

    I bought the P45+ even though I could make a case that I really don't need all those pixels as most of my prints are 22 x 30 or so. But for the past three or four years I find myself in an almost continual upgrade mode to get more resolution etc. So I decided to perhaps over-invest now but be able to keep and effectively use the system longer.

    As important as the back was the body and system. I think the Phase inputs to Mamiya have resulted in a much superior body. The new focus system is far superior to the AFD II with a stronger motor and the use of three focus points. No doubt the AFD II was much slower and less accurate. The control layout is much more intuitive and very comparable to DSLR formats. Programmable buttons a la D3 allow the individual photographer to set up his tool to make the most sense to him. They have beefed up the digital processing board to increase speed of information. I suspect we will see lens corrections as a result of this capacity increase. The mirror damping is substantially improved to allow better images at slow shutter speeds. This had traditionally been the province of the H3D with the programmable shutter delay.

    THe one feature change I don't understand was taking the EV control to the LCD and away from the body. They tried to discuss the positives of that move but I think they just needed the body space for what they considered more important functions. I liked having the mechanical switch which could be engaged without taking the eye away from the viewfinder.

    I considered the Rollei, Sinar etc but the prices are just too high for me. The leaf is a good system but I can't imagine having to use a touch screen system in the field. As we all know the performance of LCD's in the sun is marginal for all but histograms. Indoors is fine but outdoors?........sheesh!

    So for me it came down to Hassy H3D vs Mamiya Phase. I really loved the ergonomics of the H3D and the LCD screen is a definite improvement over the P45+. Since the sensors are identical the files are only differentiated by the firmware and most things are software correctable in PP. So finally it came down to a closed system vs an open one. I can use my P45+ on a shift camera like the Horseman, on a 6x7 format like the Mamiya RZ 67 Pro, and I can even use my V lenses alongside my FE lenses on the Mamiya system and not on the Hassy (at least not the FE lenses like my beautiful 110 2.0.

    This turned out to be a longer analysis than I intended. Hope it helps someone else

    Woody

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I considered the Rollei, Sinar etc but the prices are just too high for me.
    Woody
    Woody,
    While the list price of the Sinar Hy6 kit may appear high compared to others, there are deals to be had. I paid less for my kit than I was quoted for the P45+ and I got 5 years of warranty vs their 3. New Rollei glass is probably more expensive than the Mamiya counterpart but there are bargains to be had there as well. Witness the Rollei 110 f/2 that Willem just picked up on ebay for about the same price as you paid for your Hassy 110/2. Not suggesting here that you haven't selected the best kit for your needs... I know you're a diligent and savvy consumer, just pointing out that eliminating Sinar on the basis of price alone doesn't comport with my experience.

  13. #113
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I did see that someone recently purchase a P45 for $10K at LL. Not bad for a 39MP back.

  14. #114
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Bloody hell, you've got to be kidding right? That is stupidly cheap for that amount of MFDB!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  15. #115
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I'll start out saying that I mimick most of what Woody says and then expand on my specific points.

    I wanted a very easy to use and intuitive system that I could just pick up and run with. For studio work, product photography, and outside strobe work of people or race cars/driver. The first system also needed to solve a DOF issue for me on product work for magazines, which meant that I wanted to mount the back on a technical camera. My other need was fast flash sync for the outside strobe work. MF became really needed when I got tired of shots being cropped and turned into a two page center in a magazine or a cover shot getting blown up to an 8ft. banner.

    However, I also had a need for higher ISO, light weight, and fast shutter speeds without strobes in available light. I also needed a backup system for some work that I could not afford to have a system go down during.

    This led me to needing both a leaf shutter and focal shutter system that would be different animals for different uses.

    LCD screens, ergonomics, just plain simple ease of use, software/workflow, and dealer support also played big factors.

    I ended up dealing with two dealers that were both great. Sean from Camera West for an H3DII39, and Lance from Capture Integration for a Phase system with a P30+. From what I've seen on this board, I would also have no hesitation with Steve at PPR. I'll also through another plug in here for David at Dale Photo in FL, who spent hours and hours on the phone with me when I was changing my lighting to add a battery powered location set.

    I selected the H3DII39 for the resolution of 39MP to do product and large size print work. I really like the ergonomics of this body and how everything is hot buttoned on the body or very easy to find on the body LCD. The screen on the back is probably the best that I've seen in MFDB. This one meets my need also for the leaf shutter system where I can use strobes with a fast sync speed in daylight. It also provides me the option of using the 90 degree finder or a waist level finder. Phocus seems to be excellent so far, although I'm still learning all the tricks. The other bonus from workflow is that Aperture/OS X natively support the files. Photomechanic is also updating their program to support the Hassy files. I realize that it is currently restricted to ISO 400 but should get the update to 800 shortly. Since I needed a leaf system, I also saw David's Sinar in Puerto Rico but felt that workflow/software was not to my liking, I had a problem with it not just being intuitive in how to run, we could not really use the LCD screen for anything on the back, and I hit the buttons on the left side of the camera changing settings by accident. I do see great files from David's work, but it was just not for me.

    Next I needed a light weight, fast focal plane shutter for high shutter speeds, available light work, higher ISO, lower cost, with good ergonomics and workflow. I was used to Capture One so this was easy. I used all of the Phase backs and the AFDII in Puerto Rico courtesy of Lance. Once again these were just pick the camera up and shoot ease of use. I did have some complaints on the body and lenses from ergonomics or the ease of adjusting focus on the lens manually for a tweak without having to change switches on the body, body the majority is being addressed in the new body and lenses. I have found the P30+ to excell at what I want it for and that it is faster in basically all aspects than the Hassy system.

    Build quality of the camera systems, the Hassy just feels more rugged and precise. To lug around all day and use in available light, the Mamiya wins.

    I'm really looking forward to putting both of these to work.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Bloody hell, you've got to be kidding right? That is stupidly cheap for that amount of MFDB!
    No, I am not kidding. It is against policy to post links to other forums, but it can be easily found by searching the buy/sell threads there.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    wow!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    ......It is against policy to post links to other forums.......
    I've probably done this a few times already, not knowing it's against policy,
    but it's not listed in the forum rules .

  19. #119
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Woody,
    While the list price of the Sinar Hy6 kit may appear high compared to others, there are deals to be had. I paid less for my kit than I was quoted for the P45+ and I got 5 years of warranty vs their 3. New Rollei glass is probably more expensive than the Mamiya counterpart but there are bargains to be had there as well. Witness the Rollei 110 f/2 that Willem just picked up on ebay for about the same price as you paid for your Hassy 110/2. Not suggesting here that you haven't selected the best kit for your needs... I know you're a diligent and savvy consumer, just pointing out that eliminating Sinar on the basis of price alone doesn't comport with my experience.
    David

    I certainly understand that all of us negotiate with our dealers to get prices substantially different from list which got me the P45+ at a price I could (almost) afford. Steve Hendrix also worked hard to get me into the H3D but the results favored Phase so that is the direction I went.

    I am sure you did the same with Sinar. You may have gotten the Hy6 cheaper than I got my Mamiya Phase system and if so I will kick myself for not at least trying to get there myself.

    So please everyone, don't assume, based on my comments, that Sinar is necessarily more expensive than Phase or Hassy. It definitely is at the list price level and that is what I was referring to. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

    Woody

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    Wink Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    David,
    I note this is your first post here and welcome you to the forum. I've seen your swimsuit shots over on LL (which were quite spectacular) and I'm sure the members here would love to see it as well. Also, always nice to have another David in the group.
    Thanks David for the welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Morning and welcome to the forum. As far as custom WB you sure can still work in the same fashion. That combo would be very nice for fashion also. May want to even look at the new lens coming for Mamiya a 150 2.8 D lens expensive but maybe perfect for fashion.
    Thanks Guy, once released I will have a look at the new Mamiya AF 150mm F2.8D it certainly looks promising

    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    In answer to Ray's question after researching and reading the MF forums I decided the open platform Phase One 645 & P30+ would be a good entry point for me. Listed at $22,490 for the kit and 80mm F2.8D it's also a fairly economical package.

    I shoot in the studio & remote locations (beach & outback) quite often in low light so robust physical durability, reliability, intuitive operation and low noise capabilities are important to me. I looked at Guy's P25+ sample files at higher ISO's and they looked very good to me.

    The P30+ microlenses help create cleaner images at higher ISO's and from what I've seen with good capture information and careful post processing ISO 400 can be very usable for commercial purposes.

    I like the improved shutter lag, faster AF, clean, simple ergonomic feel of the Mamiya AFD III along with the better electronic integration between back, body & D Lenses. I also like the fact that Phase is supported world wide and when traveling if per chance is not available in an emergency I can use any other back on this open platform system. I like the Leaf Aptus 75s or 54s when capture speed (0.8 FPS) and stable multi monitor tethered shooting is required.

    Another Plus for me is the ability to use the Hasselblad 110mm f/2.0 FE one of the nicest portrait lenses around and very fast glass for low light. I shoot fashion and with the 1.26 focal length factor of the P30+ this gives me an effective 85mm f/2.0 (in 35mm terms) equivalent allowing enough compression for beauty & full body shots while being short enough for shooting in tight spaces.

    Once the European leaf shutter lenses are released for the Mamiya (and I hope/pray they're going to carry the CZ or Schneider brand name) I will have a versatile, open and complete system
    MANA WAIRUA

  21. #121
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    I've probably done this a few times already, not knowing it's against policy,
    but it's not listed in the forum rules .
    LOL well there are no rules about linking because we actually encourage it. We have a open policy on this and here is why. This is a learning site and it is designed and setup to be a little different than other sites. This is a place to learn and share. Any good information is welcome here with linking but if you are on other sites and have information that resides here we hope folks will also share that and link us. Information is key to move forward in your photography growth and being able to source that info is what it is all about so we encourage it but we also on one hand want all our members to learn and share we also would like folks to use common sense also and do what is fair for all the members . Certainly for example linking to porn site is not only not fair to others it is also in poor taste. I would like to think you all are invited guests at a big round table in our home. If you think in those terms than never a issue . Also remember this is a workshop forum that Jack and I do to help teach others so any direct competition to that would be like not bringing your empty plate to the kitchen. Our biggest rule here is no insults to each other, that simple will not be tolerated and Jack , Jim, Mike and I are all on the same page there. This includes us BTW which we are members also. LOL I have had my moments on this one.

    Seriously if you think it is good data than we welcome it with open arms.

    Billy BTW thanks for reading the rules most folks do not bother.
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  22. #122
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by elitegroup View Post
    Hi Natasa,

    I'm looking at the Phase One 645, P30+ & Hasselblad 110mm f/2.0 combo.

    I've noticed you use the same back. Can you capture and apply a custom grey card WB in/with the Phase or do you only have this option in post/C1

    This is the work flow I use with the Canon and hope to continue with the Phase.

    Thanks
    Excellent choice at the moment... and most probably good choice many years from now

    As far as capturing and applying a custom grey card WB in with Phase?

    YES To create a custom white balance on the back you need to do the following:

    -> In the menu, go to WB and then to Create WB

    -> Make an exposure, filling the frame with your gray card

    -> Save the WB as Custom 1, 2, 3, etc.

    When you bring the images into C1, make sure you use the "as shot" option in the white balance tool!!!

    Happy & Ready

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    Smile Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Excellent choice at the moment... and most probably good choice many years from now

    As far as capturing and applying a custom grey card WB in with Phase?

    YES To create a custom white balance on the back you need to do the following:

    -> In the menu, go to WB and then to Create WB

    -> Make an exposure, filling the frame with your gray card

    -> Save the WB as Custom 1, 2, 3, etc.

    When you bring the images into C1, make sure you use the "as shot" option in the white balance tool!!!

    Happy & Ready
    Thank you Natasa for your help, is appreciated
    MANA WAIRUA

  24. #124
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post

    BTW I can offer the M-system free for the members of this Forum if they need to shoot in Moscow. Welcome!http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/images...es/redface.gif

    ALPA lenses: 35mm Digitar, 45mm. Alpar, 24mm Digitar. The 24mm was damaged and does not allow focusing. I sold my Helvetar and 60mm. digitars in 2007.

    Rollei 6008 lenses: 90mm Makro, 3,5/40mm., 2.8/80AF, 2,8/180 AF. I am trying to find an AF version of the 150mm lens. I use the lenses on the HY6 Rolleiflex version with an un-revolving adapter. Unfortunately the HY6 does not support my 54H multi-shot (only eVolution 75H is supported).

    Russia is a very strange market for digibacks and MFD. The dominating platform for professionals is Sinar (44H, 54H and 54M on all types of cameras, Contax is the most popular), Phase One became the DB of choice for younger generation of photographers (the owner of Moscow Academy of photography is the Russia PhaseOne/ ProPhoto dealer). Hasselblad H3D is very popular with amateurs.

    Regards,
    Yevgeny
    Yevgeny, for sure I am calling you to negotiate for me when I decide to buy Sinar M

    I am not sure what kind of deals do they offer now? Anybody else who owns Sinar M please advise, Thierry included of course?


    Thanks for the offer, I would love to visit if I decide to buy the system, so thanks again..... I'm sure everybody appreciates it!!!

    You said 24mm lens for 24mm for ALPA was damaged and does not allow focusing... is that basically because it's damaged or some other reasons!!!

    Most Russian photographers I know love Rollei+Alpa+Leica.... So perhaps now when you can mount P45+/P30+/P25+/P21+/etc. on Rolleiflex 6008 AF Phase will be even more popular in Russia!!!

    On the other hand, even for Rollei owners who don't happen to like PHASE... even for them it is good to know that it does support their investment

    I just can't understand one thing.... Usually companies struggle/pay huge amounts of money to get feedback and find out how to improve their product/sale. Here on Medium Format territory, customers are almost crying to help/point out and offer their feedback and result seem to be.... nobody cares enough why, because everybody wants/needs bigger sensor, the new/same or similar software/turtle to upload much heavier files.... I don't think so!!!

    So anybody planning to invest in the current line of sensors SHOULD NOT seriously worry at all!!!

    I think Phase makes enough money, (Sinar too) among other things on the list to at least offer the same DB screens as Hasselblad if not better..... better software than current C1 Version, etc.... Yes C1 is standard and it was for years, but now days I see photographers bypassing C1 more often!!!
    Last edited by Natasa Stojsic; 10th June 2008 at 16:52.

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Dear Natasa,
    Thank you for your kind offer to represent you in the negotiations with Sinar. You should know that we here in Russia usually pay 30% more for all photo equipment (tax + custom duties) than you all Americans pay in the USA.

    I do not know whether the Russian dealer has a Synar-m system in stock, I am pretty sure that he has a spare M-body/shutter.
    The pricing of all Sinar products is very transparent, all the prices are listed at http://www.sbf-moscow.ru/, the site is in Cyrillic and you will find the price list on the bottom as an Exel file. All prices are in Euro. The discounts are negotiable...
    I personally Know 6 people here who use Sinar M in different configurations. Two of them work for museums. One amateur is selling his whole system now and there is no customers interested to buy all the set. The most popular configuration in a Sinar-m shutter and Sinar P3 camera with old and new (HR) Sinaron digital lenses, my friend Igor Sakharov (http://www.photo-is.com/gallery.php) owns such a combo with a new eVolution 75H (and a 54H as a backup).

    ALPA 24mm digitar: I damaged the lens two years ago. The lens sits in a flexible (very delicate) helicon mount. I was abroad and I had the lens on my camera. When I put the camera in a bag I failed to notice that something else in the bag applies pressure right on the lens. The preasure damaged the mount. I was able to repair it here and now the 24mm is a fixed infinity focus lens (like on disposable cameras).

    Rolleiflex is indeed very popular here. I cannot explain the phenomenon.
    The most popular combo is 6008AF +db20 Phase one. Some of the users migrated to eMotion backs. Not everybody is happy. The most common complaint is the lack of Auto White balance (?) on Sinar and flat files. They want "ready to use" files out of the camera. People do not realise that the eMotion backs offer a lot of flexibility and IMO custom balance is more professional and precise.
    Yevgeny

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Yevgeny, for sure I am calling you to negotiate for me when I decide to buy Sinar M

    I am not sure what kind of deals do they offer now? Anybody else who owns Sinar M please advise, Thierry included of course


    You said 24mm lens for 24mm for ALPA was damaged and does not allow focusing... is that basically because it's damaged or some other reasons!!!

    Most Russian photographers I know love Rollei+Alpa+Leica.... So perhaps now when you can mount P45+/P30+/P25+/P21+/etc. on Rolleiflex 6008 AF Phase will be even more popular in Russia!!!

  26. #126
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Dear Yevgeny,

    yes, custom WB is more precise, you are absolutely right.

    However, the eMotion back has some default profiles/colour balances included (Daylight, Cloudy, Sunny, Shadow, Flash, Fluorescent, Tungsten, etc ...) which are not a 100% but give a very close colour balance when used under these light conditions.

    Then one has the possibility to shoot a grey card or a Macbeth chart and EITHER do WB in the eMotion or LATER in Sinar Captureshop OR Sinar eXposure.

    FURTHER, in Captureshop AS WELL as in eXposure, one can save as a "PARAMETER" as many WBs as wanted and apply them on as many files as wished, in a fraction of a second (no process time). Those WB's can be used whenever you need them.

    So I guess there is sometimes a lack of information concerning what the digital back or the software can do. But very often what is seen as missing is in fact there.

    But YES, there is no "AUTOMATIC" WB with a sensor on the camera metering the colour temperature and applying it to the file for a immediate view, YET. I know that this is what you mean. This will be possible with the Hy6 and its integrated WB sensor, as soon as it is implemented. However, and in my opinion, like in yours, nothing can replace a TRUE and right WB with a grey card, IMO.

    - Flat files: any files are flat when there is no tonal/contrast curve applied. Here again, the previews on the eMotion display does apply automatically such a curve. In Captureshop or in eXposure one can select whether one wants the files to be displayed with a "LINEAR" (flat) curve, which is then exactly WHAT has been CAPTURED by the sensor, WITHUT ANY alteration/change. Or one can decide that one wants to display the files with some default curves or one can create one's own tonal curves and save them to be chosen for displaying the images.

    I hope this helps.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post
    Dear Natasa,
    The most common complaint is the lack of Auto White balance (?) on Sinar and flat files. They want "ready to use" files out of the camera. People do not realise that the eMotion backs offer a lot of flexibility and IMO custom balance is more professional and precise.
    Yevgeny

  27. #127
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Dear Thierry,
    Yes, it's very helpful , as usual.
    This forum became a knowledge mine.
    Just a thought: Your excellent posts should be printed as a "How to Start with Sinar" brochure .

    Kind regards,
    Yevgeny
    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    Dear Yevgeny,

    yes, custom WB is more precise, you are absolutely right.

    So I guess there is sometimes a lack of information concerning what the digital back or the software can do. But very often what is seen as missing is in fact there.



    I hope this helps.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

  28. #128
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post
    The most common complaint is the lack of Auto White balance (?) on Sinar and flat files. They want "ready to use" files out of the camera. People do not realise that the eMotion backs offer a lot of flexibility and IMO custom balance is more professional and precise.
    Yevgeny
    I am amazed to read this. The white balance can be adjusted in the software, just like any other raw processing software. Or a picker can be used to select a gray card in the image or other neutral shade.

    As for the flat files, this is true of any camera with a large dynamic range unless you add contrast with a curve. With the Sinar backs you can choose to keep the curve flat, or as contrasty as you want, and apply it by default to all captures. Professionals will generally WANT this flexibility and not want to have the same contrast applied to every image. Again, this is a very strange complaint.

    It sounds as though someone tried the back for a few minutes and didn't know how to use the software?

  29. #129
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    yes, Graham, that's the (sad) story of it: so many will buy (expensive) equipment and do not go through the camera possibilities, even after an entire lifetime! That's so common. Those people often miss out 50% to 90% of the possibilities of their gear/product/back.

    Actually that it is the very reason why Sinar started to organize LF workshops in 1980, when they noticed that so many customers were using their p2 4x5" with parallel standards all the time! No clue about sharpness plane adjustment, no clue about perspective, no clue about sharpness and D0F, etc ...

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    I am amazed to read this. The white balance can be adjusted in the software, just like any other raw processing software. Or a picker can be used to select a gray card in the image or other neutral shade.

    As for the flat files, this is true of any camera with a large dynamic range unless you add contrast with a curve. With the Sinar backs you can choose to keep the curve flat, or as contrasty as you want, and apply it by default to all captures. Professionals will generally WANT this flexibility and not want to have the same contrast applied to every image. Again, this is a very strange complaint.

    It sounds as though someone tried the back for a few minutes and didn't know how to use the software?

  30. #130
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    I am amazed to read this. The white balance can be adjusted in the software, just like any other raw processing software. Or a picker can be used to select a gray card in the image or other neutral shade.

    As for the flat files, this is true of any camera with a large dynamic range unless you add contrast with a curve. With the Sinar backs you can choose to keep the curve flat, or as contrasty as you want, and apply it by default to all captures. Professionals will generally WANT this flexibility and not want to have the same contrast applied to every image. Again, this is a very strange complaint.

    It sounds as though someone tried the back for a few minutes and didn't know how to use the software?
    That maybe part true of just trying it out but let's look at the M8 the AWB sucked in the beginning and many many complaints because it was not correct coming off the camera . For the raw shooter it is a meaningless point, we adjust anyway in post so it makes no difference but that does not stop the whining about it even till this day , The M8 improved the AWB but still makes no difference to the raw shooter , we simply do not have a need. But folks are lazy also and don't want to take the time to learn new dog tricks and this goes for the whole industry and everything in it. Hell do we really need 10 frames per second , no but the same logic applies here also. Bottom line friends is this and folks from the old school and new ones that want to work it , There is no free lunch you want quality in both your shooting and your final results you have to WORK at it. I don't care what you have in your hands , yes some will be easier to do that but that is all it is. You can achieve the same or better results just being better at what you do and learn more. Workshops, reading , forums and all the data available to us is actually much more important than what camera you pick. Folks need to learn and some want to be lazy and not do anything to learn. Bottom line
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  31. #131
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    @ Thierry and Graham
    I think that the "pros" (at least here in Russia) are coming WITHOUT any experience outside their Canon work. A lot are moving from MF Film. The market for professional photography was severely damaged by semi-pros with their Canons and Nikons and I see how pros became more interested in MFD to get the advantage and they are ready to invest.
    I am sure that the dealers should provide the basic training with their product. The dealers shall have the knowledge and skills or employ good people. The workshops Sinar-Bron dealer is doing in Moscow (at PhotoForum expo) concentrates on Lighting, it is the thing they know and the show with models attracts public. This is good for brand promotion, but not enough.
    Very often I, a mere layman, am asked to help with the workflow for buyers of Sinar products (for Fotoframe shop etc.). That concerns me. There are some very skilful pros here and in Europe who can teach at the workshops and they are able to explain the way files work.

    I am on a short vacation and today a friend of mine visited me, his son is planing to get a MF digital system (he shoots Mamiya RZ and Contax). He is deciding what back to finance and he has money. They are evaluating files and I addressed here the issues (in my previous post) they raised (WB and flatness). It was not my questions. I am more than agree with Graham, I love Sinar files, I adore the Curve #3 and feel more and more comfortable with the eXposure workflow.
    Sorry for the rant.
    Regards,
    Yevgeny
    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    yes, Graham, that's the (sad) story of it: so many will buy (expensive) equipment and do not go through the camera possibilities, even after an entire lifetime! That's so common. Those people often miss out 50% to 90% of the possibilities of their gear/product/back.

    Actually that it is the very reason why Sinar started to organize LF workshops in 1980, when they noticed that so many customers were using their p2 4x5" with parallel standards all the time! No clue about sharpness plane adjustment, no clue about perspective, no clue about sharpness and D0F, etc ...

    Best regards,
    Thierry

  32. #132
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    no rant, Yevgeny, and my "critic" about photographers not knowing their equipment was not intended at you. I know you since quite a while and believe you do know what you are speaking about.

    My concern was more intended to those taking the camera out and not taking the time to learn the basics, for analog or digital, and for whatever reason. Some simply and purely don't have this time. But one thing is sure, the better you dominate the technical part the more freedom you will have in your creativity. It is certainly worth to invest some time to go through the basics, to read a manual, to attend a good workshop with knowledgeable people able to show you, and it is worth the time to try and experience by one's own. Reading is good, but you keep about 10% of what you've read. Seeing it done is better, you'll keep a bit more from it, may be 20%. But doing it yourself and testing with your "hands", that's what makes you progress the fastest.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Yevgeny NP View Post
    @ Thierry and Graham
    I think that the "pros" (at least here in Russia) are coming WITHOUT any experience outside their Canon work. A lot are moving from MF Film. The market for professional photography was severely damaged by semi-pros with their Canons and Nikons and I see how pros became more interested in MFD to get the advantage and they are ready to invest.
    I am sure that the dealers should provide the basic training with their product. The dealers shall have the knowledge and skills or employ good people. The workshops Sinar-Bron dealer is doing in Moscow (at PhotoForum expo) concentrates on Lighting, it is the thing they know and the show with models attracts public. This is good for brand promotion, but not enough.
    Very often I, a mere layman, am asked to help with the workflow for buyers of Sinar products (for Fotoframe shop etc.). That concerns me. There are some very skilful pros here and in Europe who can teach at the workshops and they are able to explain the way files work.

    I am on a short vacation and today a friend of mine visited me, his son is planing to get a MF digital system (he shoots Mamiya RZ and Contax). He is deciding what back to finance and he has money. They are evaluating files and I addressed here the issues (in my previous post) they raised (WB and flatness). It was not my questions. I am more than agree with Graham, I love Sinar files, I adore the Curve #3 and feel more and more comfortable with the eXposure workflow.
    Sorry for the rant.
    Regards,
    Yevgeny

  33. #133
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    When I sold my Aptus 75S and bought my Sinar kit I went into this with my eyes wide open knowing that there would be a learning curve and some teething problems working with a new and unfamiliar camera, back and software. I look at this as a challenge and not a "headache". This is, after all, professional level equipment and not a point and shoot camera. This Friday I will drive several hours (each way) to meet with Steve Hendrix and Dave McRitchie (from Sinar) to better learn my new equipment and software... and I am looking forward to it. Guy and Jack, who are far more experienced and accomplished than I am, are spending the time to learn their new kits as well. This doesn't happen overnight but if you are willing to put the time in, the results will be well worth while. If you're not, well, Canon and Nikon make some great cameras.

  34. #134
    thsinar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    That's a very good mindset and to be taken as an example by others.

    And BTW: my remarks below were also not intended at you, David!



    Best regards,
    Thierry


    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    When I sold my Aptus 75S and bought my Sinar kit I went into this with my eyes wide open knowing that there would be a learning curve and some teething problems working with a new and unfamiliar camera, back and software. I look at this as a challenge and not a "headache". This is, after all, professional level equipment and not a point and shoot camera. This Friday I will drive several hours (each way) to meet with Steve Hendrix and Dave McRitchie (from Sinar) to better learn my new equipment and software... and I am looking forward to it. Guy and Jack, who are far more experienced and accomplished than I am, are spending the time to learn their new kits as well. This doesn't happen overnight but if you are willing to put the time in, the results will be well worth while. If you're not, well, Canon and Nikon make some great cameras.

  35. #135
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    When I sold my Aptus 75S and bought my Sinar kit I went into this with my eyes wide open knowing that there would be a learning curve and some teething problems working with a new and unfamiliar camera, back and software. I look at this as a challenge and not a "headache". This is, after all, professional level equipment and not a point and shoot camera. This Friday I will drive several hours (each way) to meet with Steve Hendrix and Dave McRitchie (from Sinar) to better learn my new equipment and software... and I am looking forward to it. Guy and Jack, who are far more experienced and accomplished than I am, are spending the time to learn their new kits as well. This doesn't happen overnight but if you are willing to put the time in, the results will be well worth while. If you're not, well, Canon and Nikon make some great cameras.
    Completely agree this stuff takes time to learn and learn well, there is NO overnight success. You get back what you put in , You want overnight get a P&S and call it a day. These waters are not to be thread on if that is what you think, even the M8 as simple as it was takes a lot of time to know , I said that to hundreds of people in private e-mails , PMs and in public. Same here, you need to learn it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  36. #136
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That maybe part true of just trying it out but let's look at the M8 the AWB sucked in the beginning and many many complaints because it was not correct coming off the camera . For the raw shooter it is a meaningless point, we adjust anyway in post so it makes no difference but that does not stop the whining about it even till this day , The M8 improved the AWB but still makes no difference to the raw shooter , we simply do not have a need. But folks are lazy also and don't want to take the time to learn new dog tricks and this goes for the whole industry and everything in it. Hell do we really need 10 frames per second , no but the same logic applies here also. Bottom line friends is this and folks from the old school and new ones that want to work it , There is no free lunch you want quality in both your shooting and your final results you have to WORK at it. I don't care what you have in your hands , yes some will be easier to do that but that is all it is. You can achieve the same or better results just being better at what you do and learn more. Workshops, reading , forums and all the data available to us is actually much more important than what camera you pick. Folks need to learn and some want to be lazy and not do anything to learn. Bottom line
    Guy,
    Not really meaning to get into this, nor create a stir, but some of your comments need some qualifying.

    Some of us do need 10fps or so. Not everybody, and not all the time, but a 2-3 shot bursts at those speeds with a DSLR can mean the difference between getting the shot or not. This does NOT apply to most MF situations, and most of us do not think it important there.

    The AWB thing and how files are delivered to an app do make a difference when one is needing fast processing. That applies to RAW files as much as anything. True, one has all the flexibility in the world with RAW to tweak the WB to their needs, develop curves for contrast, increase/decrease saturation, etc. All great and powerful stuff. However, it really does help to have the thumbnails and possibly the preview files in many apps come out half decently, and not having to work from near scratch to adjust things enough just to evaluate the image for further consideration. While the fine tuning can be done, it is valuable to at least see previews that are somewhat more balanced for evaluation. Again, this may not apply to everybody, nor all the time, but I would bet most folks working against some deadlines prefer to see a good first approximation. The M8, until fixed, was horrific at this, and made the entire process painfully slow and inconsistent.

    Again, I say these things not to stir the pot, but for perspective. I shoot a lot of images, all in RAW, and I need to see things quickly on my screens and at a level that at least lets me get to the selection process more quickly. Even though I will be tweaking the finals, having a good first pass look lets me concentrate more on compositional, focus, DOF and other issues, than trying to read through excessively flat looking thumbnails and previews, making the mental WB correction plans in my head.

    It is not about doing the work, as I am very familiar with that part and not afraid or unwilling to tackle it. It is more about having to do more work that may not really be needed, nor add much to the process other than time and frustration. That is why some of the RAW processors, even ACR/LR pick up the data from the RAW files and attempt to deliver something that may be closer to what a final processing could be. They are not perfect, but they sure do help getting past screens and screens of very flat looking images, like many of us had to live with with the M8.

    LJ

  37. #137
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    No I agree having a good AWB is a great thing and it really makes editing and processing much easier if things come in correctly . I think maybe i over simplified what i was saying originally but do agree completely it is nice having it close to done and ready to before you hit any adjustments. less time processing is a good thing but it also is not the end of the world as some whine it be. Also yes some folks need speed there is no question of that in wanting short bursts of images for some stuff. I think maybe i just figure everyone knows DSLR stuff and no need to rehash what they are capable of. No question they can do a better job at sports and such with there speed advantage . Obviously MF just like a M8 is not for everyone or everything no matter how much we try which i did with the M8 and bottom line i need a DSLR for some stuff and MF for some stuff. Being a Pro it usually will come down to two system to get everything done unless you specialize in one area only. Which I do not, so having both is a need
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  38. #138
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,
    I am cool on this, and really did not mean to jump your comments. We are on the same page. My personal feelings are just what you mentioned....less time at the computer is a good thing. Also, did not intend to get into the DSLR v MFDB debate, as in my mind and many here, that is really not so much a debate, but information sharing based on our individual needs. I agree, a working pro, and probably a lot of other serious photogs, may need both systems, if they are chasing certain kinds of captures and for certain kinds of uses. (I almost died this last week when a client wanted to use one of my 8MP DSLR shots, cropped, shot at ISO 800, etc., for a "poster". Little did I know at the time that it was a 30"x40" poster!! The file held up because I put the time and effort into the reprocess, but had I known the original plans, I would have tried to shoot it with MF instead. It was a quick grab that could have been a much better planned shot.)

    You, and others are spot on target when you talk about how important it is to know and understand the gear, the processing and shooting conditions. There is no substitute for taking that time to become more than intimate with each. That being said, it sure is nice to dream about less time trying to discern images on a computer screen, and more time shooting or planning the next shoot. That is where getting a good first blush look really helps.

    LJ

  39. #139
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    When I sold my Aptus 75S and bought my Sinar kit I went into this with my eyes wide open knowing that there would be a learning curve and some teething problems working with a new and unfamiliar camera, back and software. I look at this as a challenge and not a "headache". This is, after all, professional level equipment and not a point and shoot camera. This Friday I will drive several hours (each way) to meet with Steve Hendrix and Dave McRitchie (from Sinar) to better learn my new equipment and software... and I am looking forward to it. Guy and Jack, who are far more experienced and accomplished than I am, are spending the time to learn their new kits as well. This doesn't happen overnight but if you are willing to put the time in, the results will be well worth while. If you're not, well, Canon and Nikon make some great cameras.
    David, sounds like you are making some progress with Sinar. The support from Sinar in the US, as far as getting an upgrade is concerned, is probably the worst I have ever experienced ... from anyone, ever. I ordered the e75LV upgrade and put a deposit on it since May 6, and am still waiting for it to appear. I don't know of anyone in the US getting their upgrades yet (except maybe for you!). Even Steve Hendrix and Dave McRitchie are complaining that they are not getting the backs they need from Switzerland. I am starting to get concerned how reliable this company really is, at least in the US, since they don't seem to be there when you need them. At this point, I am not sure I can endorse/recommend Sinar to anyone in the US.

  40. #140
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    LJ you picked up on something that has hit home with me more times than I can count and i know Ray has ran into it also. Is sometimes when I deliver a file intended for a certain media size than all of a sudden it turns into something else be it a usage issue or not the problem is your 10 mpx image is asked to be the size of a wall or cropped to death that it simply falls apart and you may not even get the chance to reprocess.
    Honestly i really have been embarrassed at this situation. i spent 10's of thousands in gear and bam it may not be good enough. This maybe hit home for a lot of us and main reason i jumped or leaped off the slope as we say. i told a old client of mine that does this to me all the time with surprise look at this stuff. My heart falls to it's feet but I told her of my new system and her comment was so now i can actually walk up to it and see detail. Bam over 20 k well spent now. Sorry folks but I do take pride in what I deliver and that comment was good and bad. Good that i jumped bad that they never said anything before and that part can hurt you. This is seriously something to consider at least you have the argument this is the best there is or damn close to it. My search for better image quality just sort of ended , okay 39 mpx would be nice but I am really happy with this. Just making the jump in any back is a vast improvement
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  41. #141
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Guy,
    Partly, those scenarios are our fault for not properly educating and managing the client and trying to control the image use. Since that is a lot more of a losing battle than we may like, our one option is to deliver images that are able to hold up under multi-purposing, and that is where MF really does shine. Not everything is going to be able to be shot that way for sure, but knowing that a client has a propensity to do this kind of thing is a good signal to shoot more deliberately with MF and charge them accordingly. That works out better for everybody.

    So, getting back to the topic, it really is important to know what you want to do, and pick a back/system that will best accommodate those needs. While there may be some difference between a 22MP and a 31, 33 or 39MP back, any of them will give you a lot more multi-purpose use options than the DSLRs. They cannot do everything, but they can deliver so much more when they are put to use. For the "grip and grin" awards shots at meetings and stuff that go into a house magazine at small size, the DSLR or M8 is more than enough. For most other product shots, portraits, architecture and stuff like that, where they may become wallpaper or billboards, not worth fighting with the smaller files.

    LJ

  42. #142
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    110 percent agreement LJ. This is really my bottom line on the subject on what is needed.

    I know we jump off topic sometimes and when something good comes in a thread just run with it folks. Sometimes good to start it's own thread but Jack and I don't mind this at all. data is great and when we hit great data like we all just discussed than we hit a jackpot of information and we would rather have it anywhere than nowhere at all.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  43. #143
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    what I have found with the CFV back is a pronounced yellow and green shift when set to daylight and shot in normal daylight. while this can be corrected to the eye in post by simply shifting the temp and tint, I doubt i am zeroing in accurately on as full a spectrum as possible. While including a gray card and neutral picking works (if the light is neutral) it would be better to profile the back for a full spectrum and apply that for the appropriate lighting condition. c1 allows you to include camera profiles; so my question is, is anyone doing this with their backs, in particular, with the CV and Phocus?

  44. #144
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    I had posted this in response to the IR posting by Chris and Phase One in another thread. My choice for the Leaf back was two fold. The first is the file coming off of the back itself. While not matching the P45 in resolution, I feel that the file coming off of the Aptus 75s closely matches how I see the world... color rendition, contrast, tonality. The second reason was I was lucky enough to find an excellent bargain in a used back. I've been a user of Capture One since version 1, and have liked the workflow (I still use it for ZD and Leica M8 files). The file quality coming out of Leaf Capture is excellent, however the workflow isn't as good as some of the other offerings... but I have managed to fit it in so that it works for me.

    The one area where I feel the Leaf back falls apart, is in corporate support.

    i've been very impressed with the speed and involvement that both Sinar and Phase seem to give on this (and other )forums.

    I really love the Leaf back i have.. , and any question I've asked Steve have been answered quickly... but the feeling i've always had, is that corporate support from Leaf isn't forthcoming. I've seen some responses in Luminous Landscape.. but they're typically directed at the big commercial players. Any email directly to Leaf people internally seems to either disappear, or take forever to get very short, curt and sparse responses.

    I'm sure there are other Leaf users out there, but there's very little feel of a 'community' anywhere (the Leaf forum is about as dead as one can be)

  45. #145
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    I had posted this in response to the IR posting by Chris and Phase One in another thread. My choice for the Leaf back was two fold. The first is the file coming off of the back itself. While not matching the P45 in resolution, I feel that the file coming off of the Aptus 75s closely matches how I see the world... color rendition, contrast, tonality. The second reason was I was lucky enough to find an excellent bargain in a used back. I've been a user of Capture One since version 1, and have liked the workflow (I still use it for ZD and Leica M8 files). The file quality coming out of Leaf Capture is excellent, however the workflow isn't as good as some of the other offerings... but I have managed to fit it in so that it works for me.

    The one area where I feel the Leaf back falls apart, is in corporate support.

    i've been very impressed with the speed and involvement that both Sinar and Phase seem to give on this (and other )forums.

    I really love the Leaf back i have.. , and any question I've asked Steve have been answered quickly... but the feeling i've always had, is that corporate support from Leaf isn't forthcoming. I've seen some responses in Luminous Landscape.. but they're typically directed at the big commercial players. Any email directly to Leaf people internally seems to either disappear, or take forever to get very short, curt and sparse responses.

    I'm sure there are other Leaf users out there, but there's very little feel of a 'community' anywhere (the Leaf forum is about as dead as one can be)
    Sad to hear that Jim as the files from the Aptus backs are very very nice. The Dalsa sensor renders differently from the Kodak sensors but I feel have fine tonality. Skin tones I feel are better with the Kodaks.

    Hasselblad should also be on your list of manufacturers with fine support. My experiences with them have been first rate.

    Woody

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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Jim when i had a technical problem with my leaf back-- turned out to be defective circuit board, Leaf was extremely responsive. when i emailed about upgrade policies and other sales issues, that is where communication was slow and poor. M

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    I had posted this in response to the IR posting by Chris and Phase One in another thread. My choice for the Leaf back was two fold. The first is the file coming off of the back itself. While not matching the P45 in resolution, I feel that the file coming off of the Aptus 75s closely matches how I see the world... color rendition, contrast, tonality. The second reason was I was lucky enough to find an excellent bargain in a used back. I've been a user of Capture One since version 1, and have liked the workflow (I still use it for ZD and Leica M8 files). The file quality coming out of Leaf Capture is excellent, however the workflow isn't as good as some of the other offerings... but I have managed to fit it in so that it works for me.

    The one area where I feel the Leaf back falls apart, is in corporate support.

    i've been very impressed with the speed and involvement that both Sinar and Phase seem to give on this (and other )forums.

    I really love the Leaf back i have.. , and any question I've asked Steve have been answered quickly... but the feeling i've always had, is that corporate support from Leaf isn't forthcoming. I've seen some responses in Luminous Landscape.. but they're typically directed at the big commercial players. Any email directly to Leaf people internally seems to either disappear, or take forever to get very short, curt and sparse responses.

    I'm sure there are other Leaf users out there, but there's very little feel of a 'community' anywhere (the Leaf forum is about as dead as one can be)

  47. #147
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    i went with leaf because after testing i was convinced that the image quality and software would suit my style of shooting.
    i tested other backs and they were either less convincing or equal to the leaf back "but" not as good a deal. my aptus 22 was a very good deal at the time. the software worked very well tethered and i had the option of live view.

    after 1,5 years with the aptus and contax, i wanted to upgrade to a better back and a different camera system. i was willing to pay quite a bit of cash for entry into a new system (hassy, phase, sinar). to my surprise no one was interested in taking my leaf as a trade in into their system. just ridiculous offers that were of no interest.

    luckily i'm okay with leaf and i was happy to stay with the aptus backs. but considering the amount of money a company is probably going to make by getting me to switch i would have thought it would be interesting for them. at least interesting enough to make me a serious offer. i was wrong.

    what i'm saying is, whatever back you go with don't expect to be able to switch to a different back without taking a huge loss. you can only trade up into "your" system, not into a new system, so choose carefully.



    Quote Originally Posted by RayM View Post
    I've now been part of this circle of hell for several weeks. I've read nearly everything that everyone has written on this particular forum in the last many weeks, and I've re-read a few forums from a few weeks ago that I would consider essential reading for anyone interested in getting a medium format digital back. (This seems to me in some ways, trying to describe what a good wine tastes like)

    What I'm always struck by is the diversity of what others seem to value most. It could be coming upon a 'good deal," detail, file size, moire, square or rectangular, price, acceptable performance at higher ISO speeds, software, capture speed, some of the above, all of the above, and none of the above, etc. It nearly starts my head spinning again, but not as much as my head was spinning a few weeks ago. I've read notes about how some folks feel that their backs can outresolve their own best lenses. All of these choices and preferences are personal, and they're each "weighted" as compared to other considerations.

    So, how did you come to choose what you chose? What are the factors you valued most in your choice of the back you chose? When you got to know your MFDB, did you have "buyers remorse" on any your choice? What unpleasant surprises have you had once you started to get to know your MFDB? Thank you.

  48. #148
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Thank you, Kipling, your wise words landed successfully.

  49. #149
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    A woman's guess is much more accurate than a man's certainty.
    Kipling

  50. #150
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    Re: Why did you choose your back?

    Quote Originally Posted by kipling View Post
    i went with leaf because after testing i was convinced that the image quality and software would suit my style of shooting.
    i tested other backs and they were either less convincing or equal to the leaf back "but" not as good a deal. my aptus 22 was a very good deal at the time. the software worked very well tethered and i had the option of live view.

    after 1,5 years with the aptus and contax, i wanted to upgrade to a better back and a different camera system. i was willing to pay quite a bit of cash for entry into a new system (hassy, phase, sinar). to my surprise no one was interested in taking my leaf as a trade in into their system. just ridiculous offers that were of no interest.

    luckily i'm okay with leaf and i was happy to stay with the aptus backs. but considering the amount of money a company is probably going to make by getting me to switch i would have thought it would be interesting for them. at least interesting enough to make me a serious offer. i was wrong.

    what i'm saying is, whatever back you go with don't expect to be able to switch to a different back without taking a huge loss. you can only trade up into "your" system, not into a new system, so choose carefully.
    Maybe once "trading-in" or "trading up" was an option ... can't remember when ... but maybe once upon a time, far, far away.

    Leaf wasn't interested in giving me much allowance for a 2 month old Aptus 75s in trade for AFi-7, and Hasselblad's more recent trade allowances should be handled by a professional mugger.

    When it comes to moving from one back to another, even the same brand, you are much better off to go it alone.

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