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Thread: S2 Impressions: A year later.

  1. #51
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Kurt,

    I agree, each MFD system is unique, but IQ is close. I'm leaning towards the S2 for reasons that suit my style, but also want to wait to see if Leica will release new models or firmware updates to address the concerns. Mostly, for me it was the AF issues in low light and lack of more sequential ISO settings. Plus, the top OLED is so useless in the day. I did observe purple fringing after reading some threads, it was noticeable with a hard edge against bright backdrop.
    It's my understanding that the price is going up, which I think is absurd. That might just be the deal breaker for me. I don't to pay more for a camera that has the same issues.

  2. #52
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    I want to add, I was shooting the 35mm f/2.5, when the purple fringing occured.

  3. #53
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    I think it is important to note that the price of the S2 and S2P bodies will NOT be increasing in the New Year, only the lenses are increasing in price. I have brought the lack of fine-tuned ISO control to the attention of the Leica product managers and it is an issue they will address with an eventual firmware update. As for the top OLED screen, all new bodies no longer have this issue, and any older bodies (like our demo S2 cameras) can be sent in for a warranty repair to have the OLED screens replaced. I tested the "new" screen against the "old" screen, and the difference is huge. The new screen can easily been seen in direct sunlight.

    Leica has been very receptive to the feedback of users, and several major firmware updates since the camera was released have demonstrated this. I'm certainly excited to see more changes as future firmware updates come out, especially since the updates tend not only to fix bugs, but introduce all-new features as well.

    Josh Lehrer
    Dale Photo & Digital
    Last edited by jlehrer; 26th December 2010 at 12:22. Reason: grammar error

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    It would be really great to see that the S system is improving and the flaws of the start phase are solved. For me one of the most serious flaws is Purple Fringing and this is simply a SW (FW) issue to be solved (maybe not simply solved, but that's the way to go) - at least Phase and Hasselblad seem to have solved this issue in SW.

    I am not talking about price of the S system, although it might be helpful to keep current prices or even lower them. But finally it is a very expensive system as all the other MFD systems, so everybody has to be aware of this when jumping into MFD.

    I will test drive the S2 another time to see how it suits my needs with the latest FW and then decide. Mentally I am very close already, as I want to get rid of the bulkiness of other MFD systems and I am more than satisfied with the current resolution of the S2. But the handling of the S2 would only bring me positives, so finally this system seems to be the way to go.

    Question WRT AF: does the S2 allow AF fine adjustment, as other DSLRs do (Nikon, Pentax etc) ????

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I
    Question WRT AF: does the S2 allow AF fine adjustment, as other DSLRs do (Nikon, Pentax etc) ????
    You mean manual adjustement after the S2 has made his AF decision... - yes...

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    One of the reasons I chose the S2 is shown below. This photo was taken earlier today and it was a fun time.

    It's nice to not have to worry about your camera gear in adverse weather conditions. The S2 performed flawlessly. To bad the operator did do as good.


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    Wink Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Ach mein lieber Gott was ist los mit dir

    I know the S2 is weather proof but still seeing snow and water condensation on her makes me want to grab my umbrella schnell and some one get me a vodka shot pronto before I pass out

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    One of the reasons I chose the S2 is shown below. This photo was taken earlier today and it was a fun time.

    It's nice to not have to worry about your camera gear in adverse weather conditions. The S2 performed flawlessly. To bad the operator did do as good.

    MANA WAIRUA

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlehrer View Post
    I think it is important to note that the price of the S2 and S2P bodies will NOT be increasing in the New Year, only the lenses are increasing in price. I have brought the lack of fine-tuned ISO control to the attention of the Leica product managers and it is an issue they will address with an eventual firmware update. As for the top OLED screen, all new bodies no longer have this issue, and any older bodies (like our demo S2 cameras) can be sent in for a warranty repair to have the OLED screens replaced. I tested the "new" screen against the "old" screen, and the difference is huge. The new screen can easily been seen in direct sunlight.

    Leica has been very receptive to the feedback of users, and several major firmware updates since the camera was released have demonstrated this. I'm certainly excited to see more changes as future firmware updates come out, especially since the updates tend not only to fix bugs, but introduce all-new features as well.

    Josh Lehrer
    Dale Photo & Digital

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quick Update:

    I mentioned this on my other "Art" thread but it bears repeating:

    I shot today in the bitter cold outside and in low light indoors.

    Despite some reports of consistent back-focus on all lenses (body related), my shots were almost all fine even when pixel peeping. However, I did note that I tend to fill the AF circle with the subject.

    The top LLC was perfectly readable in bright outdoor lighting.

    I did not detect Purple fringing using the 35 and 70 even inside a dark church with bright windows and very contrasty interior sections, but I'm sure it is quite possible since others say it is.

    The AF was about the same speed as my H4D/40 when shooting in lower light. I am used to this and select the target accordingly.

    Properly exposed (and not cheated), ISO 1250 looked pretty good.

    Two issue to resolve yet:

    The shutter button stuck twice when shooting outdoors in the cold ... it stopped me in my tracks. Don't know why it stuck.

    I tried the SF58 in case I need fill flash, and the TTL setting wouldn't work. TTL/HSS, A, and Manual did work. Yes, I made sure the shutter speed was with-in sync, and the TTL of the flash works mounted on my M9. Probable my error, but I haven't figured it out yet.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Josh,

    Thanks for the updates, that's a good start with Leica. I was giddy as a school girl when I saw Mark Gowin's photograph, but then almost fell off my chair reading Marc's shutter issues.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Chances are I'll never own an S2 so I'm a casual observer at best.

    I just find it interesting that Leica essentially made what to me is a digital Pentax 67 type camera form (a body styled after 35mm cameras, but on steriods) when it went digital mf and Pentax made a Hasselblad type camera when it went finally came out with it's latest digital mf camera even though it had experience making both types of bodies.

    Each designed for a slightly different market with a different set of features and methods of operation.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Marc, I can't imagine what happened to cause your shutter button to stick twice. I used my S2 out in the cold (20 - 24F) and snow for a few hours today with no operational problems. Perhaps there was a setting or mode you were in where the camera wasn't ready to shoot. For example, if it is in sleep mode, it takes one shutter press to wake it up and another to shoot. It is possible to get it to shoot from sleep mode with a loooong shutter press (at least on the previous firmware), but it is such a long press that you feel like something is wrong.

    Johnny, I was very careful to protect the the camera I used to take the photo of the S2, but the only care I took with the S2 is to try and keep the front lens element pointed away from the blowing snow where possible. I only did that so I wouldn't have to clean the lens too frequently. The lens can handle it, I can't. I have seen a demo where a glass of water was poured onto the front lens element just to show it's weather sealing.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by elitegroup View Post
    Ach mein lieber Gott was ist los mit dir

    I know the S2 is weather proof but still seeing snow and water condensation on her makes me want to grab my umbrella schnell and some one get me a vodka shot pronto before I pass out
    I didn't give it a second thought. Maybe I should have my head examined. By the way, impressive stuff on your website.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Quick Update:

    I mentioned this on my other "Art" thread but it bears repeating:

    I shot today in the bitter cold outside and in low light indoors.

    Despite some reports of consistent back-focus on all lenses (body related), my shots were almost all fine even when pixel peeping. However, I did note that I tend to fill the AF circle with the subject.

    The top LLC was perfectly readable in bright outdoor lighting.

    I did not detect Purple fringing using the 35 and 70 even inside a dark church with bright windows and very contrasty interior sections, but I'm sure it is quite possible since others say it is.

    The AF was about the same speed as my H4D/40 when shooting in lower light. I am used to this and select the target accordingly.

    Properly exposed (and not cheated), ISO 1250 looked pretty good.

    Two issue to resolve yet:

    The shutter button stuck twice when shooting outdoors in the cold ... it stopped me in my tracks. Don't know why it stuck.

    I tried the SF58 in case I need fill flash, and the TTL setting wouldn't work. TTL/HSS, A, and Manual did work. Yes, I made sure the shutter speed was with-in sync, and the TTL of the flash works mounted on my M9. Probable my error, but I haven't figured it out yet.

    -Marc
    Marc,

    This is great news. If the S2 critically focuses to your satisfaction as compared to the latest Hasselblad H4D cameras, then that tells me that the Hasselblad Ultrafocus and True Focus technologies are not really necessary, at least for your shooting style.

    So, if your S2 does not have any AF, purple fringing or noise problems, I would recommend keeping it rather than upgrading your Hasselblad H4D, since the H4D now has much less to offer you in your actual day-to-day usage.

    David

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Honestly, the S2 seems for me to be an almost perfect camera. I'm not talking about price of entry now, just the extra features like weather sealing, better LCD, form factor and duel card slots. If only they had a lens in between the 35mm and 70mm. I'd prefer a 50mm and 35mm equivalent as my primary lenses. Perhaps the soon expected zoom will be a winner. Ah, if only I had the cash in hand!

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Interesting note on your shutter freeze, Marc. Like Mark, I can report no issues with the camera in cold weather ... and I've been using it for hours at a time in temperatures from 10 - 30 degrees fahrenheit over the past several weeks. Battery time in the cold has been fantastic ... also I'm very pleased with how well the camera fits in my hands with and without gloves in very cold weather.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Still getting to know my kit and, contrary to my long standing policy, started to RTFM On my Nikon D3s there's a setting that you select that allows the shutter to fire even if the subject is not in focus... which is the one I use. I think I read in the manual that the S2 has the same option but I'll have to double check. If so this might account for getting no response with a press of the shutter. Haven't run into this issue myself... yet. Still good news to hear that it's performing to Marc's high standards. If it gets his Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval I may buy some Leica stock... at least I would if it were publicly held.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Marc,

    This is great news. If the S2 critically focuses to your satisfaction as compared to the latest Hasselblad H4D cameras, then that tells me that the Hasselblad Ultrafocus and True Focus technologies are not really necessary, at least for your shooting style.

    So, if your S2 does not have any AF, purple fringing or noise problems, I would recommend keeping it rather than upgrading your Hasselblad H4D, since the H4D now has much less to offer you in your actual day-to-day usage.

    David
    Enthusiasm welcome David ... but I didn't quite say that.

    The S2 focused in lowish light at about the same speed as my H4D/40 would. That isn't the same as True Focus with APL.

    The True Focus/Ultra Focus feature is where the camera makes nano adjustments when stopped down to optimize for that specific f/stop.

    True Focus with Absolute Position Lock is where the camera adjusts for off-center subject matter focussed with the center AF spot, and when recomposed, adjusts the AF to account for the inevitable loss of critical focus.

    When shooting people in a candid style I do use TF, but not all the time. When shooting portraits I use it almost all the time to keep the eyes in focus regardless of composition. I do not have to place the head in the center of the frame when shooting a waist up portrait with the 100/2.2 @ 2.2.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Marc, I can't imagine what happened to cause your shutter button to stick twice. I used my S2 out in the cold (20 - 24F) and snow for a few hours today with no operational problems. Perhaps there was a setting or mode you were in where the camera wasn't ready to shoot. For example, if it is in sleep mode, it takes one shutter press to wake it up and another to shoot. It is possible to get it to shoot from sleep mode with a loooong shutter press (at least on the previous firmware), but it is such a long press that you feel like something is wrong.

    Johnny, I was very careful to protect the the camera I used to take the photo of the S2, but the only care I took with the S2 is to try and keep the front lens element pointed away from the blowing snow where possible. I only did that so I wouldn't have to clean the lens too frequently. The lens can handle it, I can't. I have seen a demo where a glass of water was poured onto the front lens element just to show it's weather sealing.
    I will double check that Mark. Thanks for posting.

    To be clear, when I say stuck I mean it was stuck as in unresponsive ... there was no play or movement of the shutter button at all when pressed ... like in the old days when you switched a shutter release collar to the locked position so you couldn't accidentally fire the camera.

    Investigations continue.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    You mean manual adjustement after the S2 has made his AF decision... - yes...
    No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.
    No - no possible... there is no screwdriver slot...

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    No - no possible... there is no screwdriver slot...
    I assume you are not joking

    In a D700 or D3X you can fine adjust the focus of different lenses via the internal menu - so this stores an offset value for w number of lenses if you want individually and then applies this offset for the specific lens.

    In case the 35 on the S2 would have some backfocus, then you could try to find out the amount via some test shots and then store it in camera for this specific lens. And you could do so individually for all lenses if necessary.

    I wonder if this feature is available in the S2. Or could become available via a FW upgrade?

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.
    In this case it appears that the S2 lenses are calibrated to the body... or at least to tolerances are with-in spec. ... which can be confirmed by manually focusing the S2 lenses.

    That isn't the issue with the S2 AF ... at least as speculatively noted by some testers. It seems the AF area is perhaps to large and it can grab something else in the background ... or some such issue.

    So, allegedly, even if the body and lenses are in tight agreement ... there can still be a loss of critical focus ... specifically back focus.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    In this case it appears that the S2 lenses are calibrated to the body... or at least to tolerances are with-in spec. ... which can be confirmed by manually focusing the S2 lenses.

    That isn't the issue with the S2 AF ... at least as speculatively noted by some testers. It seems the AF area is perhaps to large and it can grab something else in the background ... or some such issue.

    So, allegedly, even if the body and lenses are in tight agreement ... there can still be a loss of critical focus ... specifically back focus.

    -Marc
    Thanks, I got it now!

    Now is the H4D doing this better or is the focus area also as big that it can result in backfocus?

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Thanks, I got it now!

    Now is the H4D doing this better or is the focus area also as big that it can result in backfocus?
    No backfocus with the H4D/40 in my experience so far (or with the H3D-II/39 and H3D-II/31 before it). Never gave it a thought, or a single second of worry.

    But to be perfectly honest, I haven't rigorously tested for it either. Since it hasn't been the subject of a bunch of user complaints on the internet there was no reason to be on alert.

    All the AF pics I've been shooting with the H4D/40 over the past year are razor sharp at the point of focus chosen. The only focusing issue I've had has been with the HTS/1.5 which is hard to focus by eye with severe tilt applied. Doable but difficult.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    I had my H4D-40 now for almost 3 Months (!) in Sweden/Denmark. The reason was back focus. In a portrait at f2.8, distance ca. 1meter the difference was nearly 7-10mm. Now, after this months of waiting, it seems to be ok, but I had not yet the time/mood to check it exactly. lg, remo

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No backfocus with the H4D/40 in my experience so far (or with the H3D-II/39 and H3D-II/31 before it). Never gave it a thought, or a single second of worry.

    But to be perfectly honest, I haven't rigorously tested for it either. Since it hasn't been the subject of a bunch of user complaints on the internet there was no reason to be on alert.

    All the AF pics I've been shooting with the H4D/40 over the past year are razor sharp at the point of focus chosen. The only focusing issue I've had has been with the HTS/1.5 which is hard to focus by eye with severe tilt applied. Doable but difficult.

    -Marc
    Well, then this also speaks for keeping the H4D40 - or upgrading to the H4D60 - right?

    I should make a ice/snow picture of my H3D39 gear, just to prove it does as well as the S2

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well, then this also speaks for keeping the H4D40 - or upgrading to the H4D60 - right?

    I should make a ice/snow picture of my H3D39 gear, just to prove it does as well as the S2
    Well I understand some people's desire for the weather proofing feature, but to be honest, I've not let weather stop me with any camera including the Hs to no ill effect ... touch wood

    I live in Michigan, USA ... who's moto is "Winter Wonder Land" ... lots of snow and big lakes all over the place.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well I understand some people's desire for the weather proofing feature, but to be honest, I've not let weather stop me with any camera including the Hs to no ill effect ... touch wood

    I live in Michigan, USA ... who's moto is "Winter Wonder Land" ... lots of snow and big lakes all over the place.

    -Marc
    I fully agree! I live in Austria and we usually have also some weeks of cold winter in the part of Austria where I live. I used the H3D39 last year very intensive for long time in winter and snowy/icy conditions - temperatures down at -20Celsius and I never had an issue - except that batteries getting empty sooner. But that should be the same for all cameras.

    To bring it to the point - I am pretty sure the best next step for owners of H equipment is for sure an upgrade to another H compared to changing the system. The beauty of the S2 is here never the less, smaller, looking nice, weather sealing etc. It is obviously not better WRT AF speed and accuracy, IQ, etc. and it is far away when you compare the lens lineup.

    Hard decision I think I will stay out of this for a while (maybe better another year) and then see what the market offers and what Leica offers

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Bottom line for Marc here and i hate to even put my nose in this but from one Pro to another Pro. It comes down to Ergo's vs a proven system you are already shooting and have every lens. What are you really buying into here is the end of day question. You don't have to answer that just consider it. For me as a Pro it is not ready for me to consider a switch. But that is me. I'm content waiting for Phases new announcements to see if they fit me or just merrily continue with what I have and happy to shoot the Sony for that type of work. I'm in a no stress mode what is with better greener pastures. I am really happy with that alone. My decision if there is one on Leica is i would like to see what takes place next.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Speaking of weather related issues I'm thinking of getting some clear protective filters (probably B&W) for my S2 lenses. Blowing sand and salt spray down at the beach makes me think it might be a good thing to do but I've never bothered with them for any other system. But these lenses are more expensive than most.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Enthusiasm welcome David ... but I didn't quite say that.

    The S2 focused in lowish light at about the same speed as my H4D/40 would. That isn't the same as True Focus with APL.

    The True Focus/Ultra Focus feature is where the camera makes nano adjustments when stopped down to optimize for that specific f/stop.

    True Focus with Absolute Position Lock is where the camera adjusts for off-center subject matter focussed with the center AF spot, and when recomposed, adjusts the AF to account for the inevitable loss of critical focus.

    When shooting people in a candid style I do use TF, but not all the time. When shooting portraits I use it almost all the time to keep the eyes in focus regardless of composition. I do not have to place the head in the center of the frame when shooting a waist up portrait with the 100/2.2 @ 2.2.

    -Marc

    Marc,

    I did not mean to imply that the Leica S2 can do the same thing as the Hasselblad H4D. Of course, there are functional and engineering differences between the focusing abilities of these two cameras.

    What I find important in your evaluation of the Leica S2 is that you feel the S2 is perfectly fine in most autotofocus situations and that it does meet your high standards. When a person like yourself, who has expertise with the Hasselblad H4D camera, votes with his own pocketbook and chooses the Leica S2, it indicates that the additional Hasselblad focusing ability in their H4D is not really necessary for you.

    In other words, as a result of your hands-on shooting with the Leica S2, you feel that you can manage just fine and create superb images without Hasselblad's focusing technologies. To me, this is a major conclusion.

    Well done, and congratulations!

    David

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    For the type of shooting you do, Marc, True Focus has to be a giant check mark in the Hasselblad column. For a wide variety of portrait and event types of shooting, focusing and recomposing with complete peace of mind with a medium format camera is a huge advantage.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    For the type of shooting you do, Marc, True Focus has to be a giant check mark in the Hasselblad column. For a wide variety of portrait and event types of shooting, focusing and recomposing with complete peace of mind with a medium format camera is a huge advantage.
    If this were true, then Marc would have rejected the S2 after his first day of shooting with it.

    The fact that Marc has not found any real deficiencies with the S2 autofocusing in a variety of his shooting conditions says a lot. Apparently, the S2 is actually improved to where he could use it confidently.

    So, the Hasselblad True Focus may not be such a big of a deal after all, and the Leica S2 is a suitable alternative to the H4D, since the S2 obviously delivers outstanding images without any True Focus ability.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I will double check that Mark. Thanks for posting.

    To be clear, when I say stuck I mean it was stuck as in unresponsive ... there was no play or movement of the shutter button at all when pressed ... like in the old days when you switched a shutter release collar to the locked position so you couldn't accidentally fire the camera.

    Investigations continue.

    -Marc
    Marc

    I too have had these occasional "freezes" as you have described. The most recent was during Christmas shots of my grandchildren (SF 58 flash work) when I took one shot then almost immediately took another. The second shot was an occasion when pushing the shutter button simply did nothing. So either I had a freeze like you or I guess it is possible that the SF 58 wasn't ready to fire. I don't think it was the flash as the ready light was on but perhaps it wasn't as I tried to fire. Not much help I am afraid but just to let you know you aren't alone with this problem

    Woody

    P.S. I am optimistic that the new firmware (supposedly to be ready 12/2010) will fix many of these nagging issues including the problems with infinity focus. I understand it will have focus adjust features (similar I would guess to the D3X) and if so, that would be terrific. I would be willing to spend significant time doing these adjustments on my lenses (35 and 70) and the soon to be received (I hope) 120 Makro. Then we could totally forget the current focus issues

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Marc

    I too have had these occasional "freezes" as you have described. The most recent was during Christmas shots of my grandchildren (SF 58 flash work) when I took one shot then almost immediately took another. The second shot was an occasion when pushing the shutter button simply did nothing. So either I had a freeze like you or I guess it is possible that the SF 58 wasn't ready to fire. I don't think it was the flash as the ready light was on but perhaps it wasn't as I tried to fire. Not much help I am afraid but just to let you know you aren't alone with this problem

    Woody

    P.S. I am optimistic that the new firmware (supposedly to be ready 12/2010) will fix many of these nagging issues including the problems with infinity focus. I understand it will have focus adjust features (similar I would guess to the D3X) and if so, that would be terrific. I would be willing to spend significant time doing these adjustments on my lenses (35 and 70) and the soon to be received (I hope) 120 Makro. Then we could totally forget the current focus issues
    Oh Woody, we need to talk !!!!

    Is there some setting I am missing to use just straight TTL with the SF58? All other mode settings work ... TTL/HSS, M, A ... but I can't get just TTL to fire.

    I am using Manual camera exposure mode and setting various shutter speeds below the top sync speed of 1/125th ... 1/30th, 1/60th ... no joy. Tried A exposure mode (1/60th) ... no joy. TTL fires on my M9 so it isn't the flash unit.

    My main concern now is the shutter locking up. That is a big no-no for the wedding work I do.

    BTW it is 12/2010 ... and the S2 has the latest firmware which is pretty recent ... this month I think ... it came installed in the camera.

    Thanks,

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Is there some setting I am missing to use just straight TTL with the SF58? All other mode settings work ... TTL/HSS, M, A ... but I can't get just TTL to fire.

    I am using Manual camera exposure mode and setting various shutter speeds below the top sync speed of 1/125th ... 1/30th, 1/60th ... no joy. Tried A exposure mode (1/60th) ... no joy. TTL fires on my M9 so it isn't the flash unit.

    -Marc
    Marc,

    TTL-HSS is normal TTL mode on the S2. You can use any focal plane shutter speed in this mode, from multi-second to 1/4000th. The camera can be in any exposure mode (M, P, S or A).

    Hope this puts an end to the head-scratching.

    Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I'm away visiting family and didn't have computer access until today.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I assume you are not joking

    In a D700 or D3X you can fine adjust the focus of different lenses via the internal menu - so this stores an offset value for w number of lenses if you want individually and then applies this offset for the specific lens.

    In case the 35 on the S2 would have some backfocus, then you could try to find out the amount via some test shots and then store it in camera for this specific lens. And you could do so individually for all lenses if necessary.

    I wonder if this feature is available in the S2. Or could become available via a FW upgrade?
    Peter,

    here's what David Farkas wrote about focus adjustment:

    Leica is taking the time to measure, calibrate, and program each and every lens with this AF fine tuning data, as well as recording measured aperture info. The concept is that an S lens mounted on any S2 body will communicate its focus calibration info to the camera, making AF more accurate at all apertures and distances.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=48

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Peter,

    here's what David Farkas wrote about focus adjustment:

    Leica is taking the time to measure, calibrate, and program each and every lens with this AF fine tuning data, as well as recording measured aperture info. The concept is that an S lens mounted on any S2 body will communicate its focus calibration info to the camera, making AF more accurate at all apertures and distances.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=48

    Hope this helps.
    This actually clarifies a lot - many thanks, had read David's review some months ago but forgot - sorry.

    I am very confident that Leica is doing a good job with the S2 and actually as I already wrote here and in other threads multiple tomes - if I had found someone to pay enough for my H3D39 and lenses I would already be in the S2 camp. But as this did not happen I will remain happy camper in the H system. Only real upgrade I would like is for a H4D mainly because of TF, I do less care about the megapixel count of the back.

    But maybe finally it will become a H4D60 anyway, the upgrade offers are so good I do not know how long I can resist

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Marc,

    TTL-HSS is normal TTL mode on the S2. You can use any focal plane shutter speed in this mode, from multi-second to 1/4000th. The camera can be in any exposure mode (M, P, S or A).

    Hope this puts an end to the head-scratching.

    Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I'm away visiting family and didn't have computer access until today.

    David
    Thank You David!!!!

    That confirms what I was beginning to suspect. I also noted that once you set it to TTL/HSS is retains the setting ... which is important.

    Any insights on the locked shutter button? It was about 20 out. No dampness, just cold. Battery was fully charged. About 15 minutes into walking around it locked up. I have the camera set to NOT go to sleep when shooting on the street like this. Turned the camera off then back on ... no joy. Eventually unlocked, but locked up again a few minutes later.

    Anyone?

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Okay everyone ... thank you all for all the wonderful and quite civil input (and creative insights on the other thread) ... especially considering how this camera has been a lightening rod for controversy.

    As I head for the home stretch, I can say with confidence that the S2 is a terrific camera, even if not quite yet mature for some photographer's needs. It is far from perfect, but it is a one-of-a-kind with many perfectly wonderful things going for it. It is easy to define it as an expansive and capable creative tool for myself.

    I have a multi-decades relationship with my Leica dealer, and wasn't considering the S2 due to the cost ... until he made me a rockin' deal. A deal I had to consider because of it being a sort of reward for our extremely long relationship of mutual aid to each other. So, price was and is a factor ... which isn't unusual for any Leica product ... but less of a factor than before.

    If I had independently decided to move forward with a normal retail dealing, I would have felt obliged to deal with David Farkas as he provided the first test S2 about a year ago. Thank you David and company.

    To clear up a few things ... this is NOT being considered as a replacement for my Hasselblad kit. That isn't going anywhere, in fact it is being upgraded. If I decide to keep the S2P I will sell the H4D/40 and a few HC lenses I tend to use only with the H4D/40 ... and sell some Sony gear. My studio is ruled by Hasselblad, as are certain commercial jobs. However, in semi-retirement, that is less of a consideration now, and personal work is coming more to the forefront.

    So, even though the H4D/40 would be sold ... it isn't an indication of anything lacking or some photographic superiority on the part of the S2. It is simply a less bulky kit in a form factor more conducive to some of, not all of, my creative directions. However, the two are close enough in balance that it makes the decision a bit more difficult.

    The S2 ISO performance is fine for what and how I shoot. I did some very low interior light shots in a dimly lit church @ 1250 and the 17"X 22" prints were fine.

    The S2 AF seems to be okay, and I will be giving up some advantages of the H4D True Focus as a compromise to gain other advantages.

    I will also be giving up a bit of hand-hold ability (initially until I get a hand strap etc.) and lose a bit of flash work versatility compared to the H4D/40 with mirror delay set and leaf shutter lenses that sync to 1/800th ... but gaining the much higher shutter speed of a focal plane shutter camera in bright light with fast aperture lenses. Which is why this is a nice compliment to the Hassey kit rather than a replacement.

    Input here on sharpening was helpful, and as I work with the files they are beginning to feel in the Leica family of color and contrast, etc. ... which is a plus.

    The challenge of the new is always a plus because it is fun.

    Finally, it isn't all logic ... the seductive design and tactile feel of this camera is not to be underplayed ... we are visual people after all.


    My dealer has given me more time to sort through the last few things I need cleared up. If the shutter button freeze is a camera issue rather than a user issue ... the camera is gone. That is a simple decision.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Recent Hand-Held shots in the environments and lighting that I shoot in frequently.

    Church Interior:

    S2P, ISO 1250, Aperture Priority, 1/60th shutter, Auto WB, Summarit-S 35 @ f/2.5


    Made a 17" X 22" print, and the shadow noise was not an issue at all (BTW, the shadows look crushed here but @ full size contain subtile detail). This also told me that the 35 is as wide as I'll need to do groups with the Quadra lighting kit, and I could easily use ISO 640 to preserve some ambient background when using the strobes like I do currently with the Sony A900 and H4D/40 using ISO 400 or 800. THIS is why I hope Leica provides interium ISO steps in future. I'd like to use ISO 800 sensitivity. These type shots will improve for real work because I normally use a tripod or mono pod no matter what camera it is.

    After church, a Hand-Held action-grab outdoor shot done while walking backwards against the wind and wearing big gloves

    Leica S2P, ISO 640, Aperture Priority, 1/1000h shutter, Auto WB, Summarit-S 35 @ f/2.8 (About a 65% crop).

    This told me that while I could just as easily use the Sony for the shot, I don't need it ... the S2 can handle these type shots quite well ... reducing the need for two different cameras (except using the Sony and a 24-70 zoom as back-up, since I won't be getting a second S2 anytime soon ) Nothing new there as I use the A900 as back-up to the H4D./40 now anyway.

    Another month with the camera and working with the files and it should get even better.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The S2 AF seems to be okay, and I will be giving up some advantages of the H4D True Focus as a compromise to gain other advantages.
    Marc,

    Thank you very much for sharing your expertise and insights into the Leica S2. I think this will help others who are also considering the S2 camera. Your testing has indeed shown that it is an excellent camera system that can deliver professional quality images without the need for True Focus like the Hasselblad H4D cameras. The advantages of using Leica glass and soon being able to have both leaf shutter and focal plane shutter capability is more than just a compromise.

    David

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Marc,

    Thank you very much for sharing your expertise and insights into the Leica S2. I think this will help others who are also considering the S2 camera. Your testing has indeed shown that it is an excellent camera system that can deliver professional quality images without the need for True Focus like the Hasselblad H4D cameras. The advantages of using Leica glass and soon being able to have both leaf shutter and focal plane shutter capability is more than just a compromise.

    David
    David, you may keep harping on the TF as if were NOT an advantage because you haven't actually experienced it to the degree I have. It's an advantage over almost any camera's AF system currently available when composing with off-center subject matter. Gotta give Hassey credit where credit is due.

    Sure you can get results with other cameras ... we've been doing all along haven't we? This is just surer, faster and a lot easier ... that's all.

    If I get any leaf shutter S lenses it may be the 120 macro when available. Don't need it for the other lenses, I have the big gun with an even higher sync speed for that.

    The glass is definitely to die for. No debate there.

    Everything involves a trade off. The S2 is no different. Can't use it on my view camera ... and all that other stuff that's been beaten to death.

    It's simply terrific for what it was intended for.

    All the best,

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Marc, best of luck with your upcoming shoot... I hope the S2 delivers the goods for you. I've got great respect for your opinions and, should you be so inclined, would like to hear what you think of the individual lenses.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    David I liked the 180mm as it was a very nice lens even handheld but the 70mm I was not impressed with overall compared to the 80D from Phase. About equal. But I had a demo lens so who knows. Honestly I have not seen anything yet that is blowing up my skirt sorry to say. Which is really bugging me given the marketing and price. But I am extremely picky and i already shoot MF and impressing me is going to be a really tough task. MF shooters that are already in this ballpark are a tough bunch to crack. Now don't take that as a negative at all we are just used to seeing this type of quality today out of our own systems. The S2 to me is just different ergos and nothing more, it is not going to smoke Phase and Hassy at least from my testing. BTW I'm already regretting posting this as some folks get a wrong read on my comments which is really sad but narrow minded thinking is not doing your homework. I think in industry reality not name brands. I blacked out my camera name to One, My Sony to Ony and my Little Sony to Little S---. LOL

    BTW My new website is online now if folks are interested in seeing the 8 year change. Okay back to work for me , client callings.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Oh Woody, we need to talk !!!!

    Is there some setting I am missing to use just straight TTL with the SF58? All other mode settings work ... TTL/HSS, M, A ... but I can't get just TTL to fire.

    I am using Manual camera exposure mode and setting various shutter speeds below the top sync speed of 1/125th ... 1/30th, 1/60th ... no joy. Tried A exposure mode (1/60th) ... no joy. TTL fires on my M9 so it isn't the flash unit.

    My main concern now is the shutter locking up. That is a big no-no for the wedding work I do.

    BTW it is 12/2010 ... and the S2 has the latest firmware which is pretty recent ... this month I think ... it came installed in the camera.

    Thanks,

    -Marc
    Hey Marc

    When I first got my SF 58 I had the same problem. However David Farkas instructed me that the TTL feature does not work with the S2. One must work with the TTL HS. I do and it works great for me.

    I just installed the new firmware (1.00.24) and some of the differences are pretty amazing to me. I was wrong about the AF issues as I had predicted that there would be lens tweaking a la the D3X. No such thing. The lenses are calibrated to the body (as you said in one of your posts) and the issue was truly the size of the spot in the center sensor. I understand now that the spot size is very different at close range than at infinity and now both seem (to me) to be pretty much spot on. No pun intended!

    I had truly been suffering from the performance of the AF system and now I am thrilled! Seems to me the S2 is now what it was originally intended to be.

    It is also great to be able to use lossless compression (40mb files instead of 70mb).

    I also really like the new histogram and the ability to set both the black and white clipping levels in software.

    All in all, some fundamentally necessary improvements and a lot of neat feature adds.

    Now if I could only get my 120 Makro.

    Woody

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    David, you may keep harping on the TF ...
    Marc, I do not mean to "harp". I just think that it is great to hear that the S2 can deliver the goods from someone like yourself who is very experienced with the H4D. I do not know of anyone else with your Hasselblad H4D experience who has also openly tested the Leica S2, and certainly neither Mark Dubovoy nor Lloyd Chambers can claim such H4D expertise as yourself. Many people who are now switching to digital medium format gear often ask me what cameras they should consider. Of course, I can give them first hand knowledge of only those cameras that I have actually used. However, I like to be able to point them to other photographers who have expertise in the cameras that I do not, and this thread allows me to do just that.

    So, I only wish to commend you on your contributions here. I believe it will give other photographers some clarity in their consideration of the S2, at least in comparison to the H4D, and especially to those folks who wish to make the same compromises as you with regard to the choice of shooting with an S2.

    David

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay everyone ... thank you all for all the wonderful and quite civil input (and creative insights on the other thread) ... especially considering how this camera has been a lightening rod for controversy...

    -Marc
    This has been a very informative thread for those interested in the S2 and those that already have one and glean a little more information. More importantly, as you point out, this has been a civil discussion. I am very glad to see more and more people using the S2 and sharing information about its use. It is helpful to all of us.

    Also, I am impressed with the indoor church photo. I have avoided ISO 1250 as much as possible, but will be a bit more open minded about it now. I'm thinking the noise could work well in B&W conversions.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    David I liked the 180mm as it was a very nice lens even handheld but the 70mm I was not impressed with overall compared to the 80D from Phase. About equal. But I had a demo lens so who knows. Honestly I have not seen anything yet that is blowing up my skirt sorry to say. Which is really bugging me given the marketing and price. But I am extremely picky and i already shoot MF and impressing me is going to be a really tough task. MF shooters that are already in this ballpark are a tough bunch to crack. Now don't take that as a negative at all we are just used to seeing this type of quality today out of our own systems. The S2 to me is just different ergos and nothing more, it is not going to smoke Phase and Hassy at least from my testing. BTW I'm already regretting posting this as some folks get a wrong read on my comments which is really sad but narrow minded thinking is not doing your homework. I think in industry reality not name brands. I blacked out my camera name to One, My Sony to Ony and my Little Sony to Little S---. LOL

    BTW My new website is online now if folks are interested in seeing the 8 year change. Okay back to work for me , client callings.
    Guy, new site looks good. I have a few "Art Director" comments I'll PM to you ... once an Art Director, always an Art Director

    Have to agree that the S2 isn't going to "Smoke Phase or Hassey", and for sure the playing field is pretty competitive with users that have stiff standards. IMO, if Leica had tried to play the same ergo game, they would have been still-born. The attraction is the form, a reasonable expectation of great glass, and the possibility of narrowing down to a simpler set for a wider range of applications.

    For sure it is all a PITA to do this if you already are into something else. However, I'm sort of at a milestone in my life and it's now or never. We'll see.

    -Marc

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