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Thread: S2 Impressions: A year later.

  1. #351
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    6) what I dont like so far:
    - 180mm lens is pretty big and heavy
    Check also the 35 and 120 mm. They are also very good...

  2. #352
    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    "3) exp metering and WB - even autowb seems to work quite good. Exposure metering (matrix) does look pretty good to (all just first impressions)"

    ...absolutely crucial points - especially WB..

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Ceh, not sure if I told you but LOVE your S2 photos :-)

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    New firmware was released today. What does it improve?

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    New firmware was released today. What does it improve?
    No it was released in december.. Leica is late in informing and updating the news...:-)

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    No it was released in december.. Leica is late in informing and updating the news...:-)
    Yah I don't think there is one since the 1.0.0.24 version released in December -- although judging from some of the focus issues some have posted I really hope they produce another update much sooner than their normal cycle.

  7. #357
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Marc,
    I just stumbled into this discussion and think it should be retitled, "S2 Impressions; It will take a year to read this thread"

    I too would have been very upset if the camera failed on an assignment. That's pretty emotional. But it appears you also have an emotional attachment to the camera's positive points.

    Having had the S2 for half a year, I have had zero problems, much pleasure, and excellent results. Sorry for your difficulty, Glad Leica is working with you.

    So very glad your dealer got you a third camera. Marc, thanks for giving it another try, if not for yourself, for all these forum posters. Given that you love the camera but fear the reliability, I will be interested to see if you give it up if this one continues to work.

    Jack

    macdonough.net

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Well, with all due caution, a healthy dose of skepticism, and more complete testing to come ...

    It seems the third time is a charm.

    I've racked off a host of my usual boring but informative (for me) test shots, including shooting in cold outdoor temps and crappy dull light at ISO 640 ... and did everything I could to fool the AF. This new S2P nailed every single shot with wide open apertures. I even did one of my standard test shots (The eye on the Sculptured Head with minimum DOF) 10 times in a row at different close distances by manually throwing the subject OOF then AF it over and over ... and it got it right every time. I also did some shots at distance with a pretty difficult AF subject (red table) ... and it also got it right every time ... go figure.

    It is supposed to snow this weekend, so that should be a fun test

    Here a few of those quick uploads with a couple of crops, and a ISO 1250 shot of my wife's "shrine" to her little doggie ...

    Sorry for the bad photography ... but that's not the point right now.

    So far, so good. More to come ...

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    That is encouraging news Marc. Glad to hear it.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, with all due caution, a healthy dose of skepticism, and more complete testing to come ...

    It seems the third time is a charm.

    I've racked off a host of my usual boring but informative (for me) test shots, including shooting in cold outdoor temps and crappy dull light at ISO 640 ... and did everything I could to fool the AF. This new S2P nailed every single shot with wide open apertures. I even did one of my standard test shots (The eye on the Sculptured Head with minimum DOF) 10 times in a row at different close distances by manually throwing the subject OOF then AF it over and over ... and it got it right every time. I also did some shots at distance with a pretty difficult AF subject (red table) ... and it also got it right every time ... go figure.

    It is supposed to snow this weekend, so that should be a fun test

    Here a few of those quick uploads with a couple of crops, and a ISO 1250 shot of my wife's "shrine" to her little doggie ...

    Sorry for the bad photography ... but that's not the point right now.

    So far, so good. More to come ...

    -Marc
    Nice Marc. Everyone is going to be watching in bated breath ...

    Also it's interesting because in one sense many were sad/disappointed/upset the camera failed on you ... but now many still might be upset (in a different way) this time because your new tests might make it even harder to talk themselves out of getting one! lol

    I guess there is always that troublesome little thing called "price" ... :-P

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyFlores View Post
    Nice Marc. Everyone is going to be watching in bated breath ...

    Also it's interesting because in one sense many were sad/disappointed/upset the camera failed on you ... but now many still might be upset (in a different way) this time because your new tests might make it even harder to talk themselves out of getting one! lol

    I guess there is always that troublesome little thing called "price" ... :-P
    Jeez, it's just a camera. Don't hang on my impressions, or then if I send it back, the Black Ops Gun ship with the red logo may come and get me ...

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Marc,

    so you obviously cannot keep away from the S2 - must be something really intriguing about that camera. Glad to hear that issues slowly seem to go away.

    Here a sculpture shot from a different camera - was shot at almost no light, ISO 3200 and AF worked just tack on ..... I will not tell you which camera, find it out .... sorry, but could not resist

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Jeez, it's just a camera. Don't hang on my impressions, or then if I send it back, the Black Ops Gun ship with the red logo may come and get me ...

    -Marc
    There's always a chance the guns will fail to fire

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Marc,

    so you obviously cannot keep away from the S2 - must be something really intriguing about that camera. Glad to hear that issues slowly seem to go away.

    Here a sculpture shot from a different camera - was shot at almost no light, ISO 3200 and AF worked just tack on ..... I will not tell you which camera, find it out .... sorry, but could not resist
    Cool lighting ... but ... resolution looks like a cell phone shot ... Hope it's not with some pricy camera If so, I apologize in advance.

    I think I made it clear that I'm viewing the S2 as a replacement for most of my 35mm DSLR gear (which is why the AF issue is so important) ... and if it works out, I won't need the smaller sensor Hasselblad H4D/40 either. Less stuff to carry on a majority of the jobs I do. The Hasselblad H4D/60 will then be my big gun.

    So far I've found the S2 to be more of a "take with" camera ... 3 lenses is fine, and we'll wait to see what the 24mm images look like, and how many arms and legs + internal organs that is going to cost.

    All predicated on whether I keep the S2P. TBD, but if this one keeps it up steady, then it is exactly what I was looking for in the first place.

    Thanks for everyone's interest. If nothing more, it underscores the notion of "try before you buy" ... and watch who you buy from.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Thanks for everyone's interest. If nothing more, it underscores the notion of "try before you buy" ... and watch who you buy from.

    -Marc

    The positive comments in this thread--combined with the experience I had when testing the camera for a weekend in June last year--pushed me (almost) over the cliff to get one (98% decided).

    Your problems with your fist two S2 caused me to ask the dealer that I want to test the camera before I buy. He agreed and offered that he would arrange that one of Leica's key product managers for the S2 would be present so that he could explain the camera and its (hidden) secrets to me, as well a check with me that everything is ok (the dealer is not far away from Solms).

    I will have to wait a while though because I also said the I did not want to buy the camera with 70 mm only and than hope that someday I get the 35 and one of the longer lenses. I prefer to have a 3 lens kit to start with.

    Georg

    PS: What are the views, if any, on the 180 vs the 120. As I like to shoot some macro and detail, I tend towards the 120. But some of the 180 shots look really good as well.
    Last edited by GMB; 14th January 2011 at 05:57. Reason: typo

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post
    The positive comments in this thread--combined with the experience I had when testing the camera for a weekend in June last year--pushed me (almost) over the cliff to get one (98% decided).

    Your problems with your fist two S2 caused me to ask the dealer that I want to test the camera before I buy. He agreed and offered that he would arrange that one of Leica's key product managers for the S2 would be present so that he could explain the camera and its (hidden) secrets to me, as well a check with me that everything is ok (the dealer is not for away from Solms).

    I will have to wait a while though because I also said the I did not want to buy the camera with 70 mm only and than hope that someday I get the 35 and one of the longer lenses. I prefer to have a 3 lens kit to start with.

    Georg

    PS: What are the views, if any, on the 180 vs the 120. As I like to shoot some macro and detail, I tend towards the 120. But some of the 180 shots look really good as well.
    That sounds like an ideal scenario to try before you buy. IMO, it's the way it should always be.

    The 120 verses 180 really depends on usage. I have much more need for a bit more reach ... I use a 135mm a lot with my 35mm DSLRs and the S180 is about the same field of view.

    If you get the 120, I'd recommend waiting to get the CS version since use of flash can be helpful with some C/U work.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Cool lighting ... but ... resolution looks like a cell phone shot ... Hope it's not with some pricy camera If so, I apologize in advance.

    I think I made it clear that I'm viewing the S2 as a replacement for most of my 35mm DSLR gear (which is why the AF issue is so important) ... and if it works out, I won't need the smaller sensor Hasselblad H4D/40 either. Less stuff to carry on a majority of the jobs I do. The Hasselblad H4D/60 will then be my big gun.

    So far I've found the S2 to be more of a "take with" camera ... 3 lenses is fine, and we'll wait to see what the 24mm images look like, and how many arms and legs + internal organs that is going to cost.

    All predicated on whether I keep the S2P. TBD, but if this one keeps it up steady, then it is exactly what I was looking for in the first place.

    Thanks for everyone's interest. If nothing more, it underscores the notion of "try before you buy" ... and watch who you buy from.

    -Marc
    Well,

    not a handy cam, something a bit more expensive and also more MP - the new GH2. Actually performs VERY good for such a small camera and that price! BTW downsized to 2000x2000 maximum and highly compressed in LR3.3 in order to be able to post it on the Web. I by no means would even start thinking that the output is comparable to MFD!

    Why I started inserting this here is, because I find it funny that we are comparing MF camera qualities from MF digital cameras via WEB images - me included. While at the same time these little wonders perform marvelously meanwhile and one could not really tell watching on the web, from which camera it came - MF, FF, APSC or even M43. Just to put things in relation.

    I am happy that the S2 adventure turns into a positive end - at least it look like. Hope you will soon own the S2 and provide your valuable feedback here. For me that S2 is still on the high interest list but if I would buy one it would not be in addition to Hasselblad but rather as my only MFD system. This is why I am holding still back, because I do not want to make the wrong decision and waste tons of money!

  18. #368
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If you get the 120, I'd recommend waiting to get the CS version since use of flash can be helpful with some C/U work.
    So you want wait another year for the 120 CS version..:-)... no if you buy now a "normal" version you can upgrade for the price difference to the CS version later...

  19. #369
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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    So you want wait another year for the 120 CS version..:-)... no if you buy now a "normal" version you can upgrade for the price difference to the CS version later...
    That is my understanding as well. I had hoped they would be available now so that I could pick up some returned non-CS lens at a discount.

    BTW, what is C/U work (apologies for my ignorance).

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    ^
    C/U I think Marc means Close Up and Macro work
    am

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    That is encouraging news Marc. Glad to hear it.
    What is also encouraging Mark, is Leica's response to all this ... very open and accessible.

    I spoke with Kelsey at Leica today ... and when she received the camera that was locking up on me ... she immediately went outside in the cold and tried it herself ... it locked up on her immediately ... something to do with the mechanism that trips the shutter.... possibly lubricant related. So, I wasn't crazy or in error. An anomaly since no one else has had the same issue. Like I said ... rotten luck.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    The s2 is a great reason to clean up cupboards.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    What is also encouraging Mark, is Leica's response to all this ... very open and accessible.

    I spoke with Kelsey at Leica today ... and when she received the camera that was locking up on me ... she immediately went outside in the cold and tried it herself ... it locked up on her immediately ... something to do with the mechanism that trips the shutter.... possibly lubricant related. So, I wasn't crazy or in error. An anomaly since no one else has had the same issue. Like I said ... rotten luck.

    -Marc
    When Leica is as responsive as in this case then it is a good thing!

    If you think about all these issues, one needs also to take into account that ALL MF cameras and digital backs are no mass ware. They are built in quantities of maybe 1000 or 2000 a year, so this is all more hand built and exclusively tuned, setup etc. Like buying an exclusive car as an Aston Martin or similar.

    What I want to say, even if they use some of the most advanced technologies and have a tight QC you easily come into situations which were not foreseen or where part specification come just to their borders and then the final product will not work.

    While in mass production cameras - like a D7000 - which is produced maybe in quantities of 10000 a month, these issues are surfacing within the first few weeks of a product life cycle, for cameras like the S2 these issues appear then within the first year or even after that.

    Having said that, one should be confident that the system is now becoming mature, especially given the responsiveness of Leica reported here. Finally it always comes down to how good support is, nothing really new actually!

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    The s2 is a great reason to clean up cupboards.
    Ain't that the truth ...

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    My cupboard needs cleanup since long time

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    So far I've found the S2 to be more of a "take with" camera ... 3 lenses is fine, and we'll wait to see what the 24mm images look like, and how many arms and legs + internal organs that is going to cost.
    I agree with "take with" sentiment. After you spend some time with the camera, you start to realize how versatile it can be to use.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Final conclusion:

    It's a keeper!

    Completed my testing yesterday and it is a go. S2P, 35mm, 70mm, 180mm, spare battery, SF58 flash and electronic release are all part of my gear vault now.

    I've wanted a focal plane kit to supplement the H system for some time now, and used the Sony A900 as a stop-gap. However, I am not a fan of CMOS sensors and AA filtration even when done as well as the Sony does it.

    I like the 35mm DSLR like handling of the S2, and the lenses are without question superb. It all fits my shift in type of work quite nicely. I am very pleasantly surprised by the ISO 1250 performance ... both in lower light, and for use in raising the shutter speed when using the longer lens in medium light. No question that this is not a 35mm DSLR in terms of speed, but plenty fast for what I do ... and the same care in handling that is required of a MFD is also a must do. But, realistically, I expected no less or no more.

    How Leica handled the issues I've reported was a big part of this decision, and they passed that test with flying colors ... which went a long way in restoring at least part of the lost trust.

    The H system is slated to be elevated upwards with a H4D/60 for more demanding MFD work ... and my excellent H4D/40 will be sold.

    Thanks to each of you for the very civil comments and feedback both pro and con, publicly and privately ... all very helpful in making this decision.

    Special thanks to Jack and Guy not only for the best forum ever, but also for their personal insights and thoughts via PMs. Much appreciated

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Final conclusion:

    It's a keeper!

    Completed my testing yesterday and it is a go. S2P, 35mm, 70mm, 180mm, spare battery, SF58 flash and electronic release are all part of my gear vault now.

    I've wanted a focal plane kit to supplement the H system for some time now, and used the Sony A900 as a stop-gap. However, I am not a fan of CMOS sensors and AA filtration even when done as well as the Sony does it.

    I like the 35mm DSLR like handling of the S2, and the lenses are without question superb. It all fits my shift in type of work quite nicely. I am very pleasantly surprised by the ISO 1250 performance ... both in lower light, and for use in raising the shutter speed when using the longer lens in medium light. No question that this is not a 35mm DSLR in terms of speed, but plenty fast for what I do ... and the same care in handling that is required of a MFD is also a must do. But, realistically, I expected no less or no more.

    How Leica handled the issues I've reported was a big part of this decision, and they passed that test with flying colors ... which went a long way in restoring at least part of the lost trust.

    The H system is slated to be elevated upwards with a H4D/60 for more demanding MFD work ... and my excellent H4D/40 will be sold.

    Thanks to each of you for the very civil comments and feedback both pro and con, publicly and privately ... all very helpful in making this decision.

    Special thanks to Jack and Guy not only for the best forum ever, but also for their personal insights and thoughts via PMs. Much appreciated

    -Marc
    Marc,
    I am happy for you and that it worked out in the end. Looking forward to seeing your new toy in use. Congrats!
    Arif
    http://blog.arifiqball.com

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Well done Marc !!

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Congratulations Marc!

    You just got my dream combo ......

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Final conclusion:

    It's a keeper!

    Completed my testing yesterday and it is a go. S2P, 35mm, 70mm, 180mm, spare battery, SF58 flash and electronic release are all part of my gear vault now.

    I've wanted a focal plane kit to supplement the H system for some time now, and used the Sony A900 as a stop-gap. However, I am not a fan of CMOS sensors and AA filtration even when done as well as the Sony does it.

    I like the 35mm DSLR like handling of the S2, and the lenses are without question superb. It all fits my shift in type of work quite nicely. I am very pleasantly surprised by the ISO 1250 performance ... both in lower light, and for use in raising the shutter speed when using the longer lens in medium light. No question that this is not a 35mm DSLR in terms of speed, but plenty fast for what I do ... and the same care in handling that is required of a MFD is also a must do. But, realistically, I expected no less or no more.

    How Leica handled the issues I've reported was a big part of this decision, and they passed that test with flying colors ... which went a long way in restoring at least part of the lost trust.

    The H system is slated to be elevated upwards with a H4D/60 for more demanding MFD work ... and my excellent H4D/40 will be sold.

    Thanks to each of you for the very civil comments and feedback both pro and con, publicly and privately ... all very helpful in making this decision.

    Special thanks to Jack and Guy not only for the best forum ever, but also for their personal insights and thoughts via PMs. Much appreciated

    -Marc
    More than welcome and glad we could help in any way we can. Good luck with it. Guy
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Marc,

    Appreciate all the documentation of your S2 journey, the pluses and minuses and what expectations were finally met with your latest body. Although specifically related to the S2 system, quite a bit could be extrapolated for both use and comparison to other MFD systems. Now I sure comes the fun part, your actually use of the camera for work and pleasure

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Wow, good luck. I'd love to be in your shoes!

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Wow, good luck. I'd love to be in your shoes!
    What shoes? I had to sell them to pay for this ...

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Are you able to share any insights as to what/how it got fixed?

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Are you able to share any insights as to what/how it got fixed?
    Well, the first S2P I sent back was older stock or something ... it had a cracked sensor cover ... which may have happened when it was shipped to me in the cold weather ... who knows. That was a Kodak flaw, not Leica ... and wouldn't have necessarily showed up during Quality Control. Same thing happened with some early M9s. Kodak has since fixed that issue.

    The second body that replaced that one had something wrong with the shutter release mechanism ... so it would lock up in below freezing temps. Leica USA confirmed the issue, and speculated it was possibly something to do with lubricants but they weren't sure until it went back to Germany. That was a "one of" issue and has not been reported by anyone else. Just my bad luck.

    It seems for me ... third time is a charm.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Congrats Marc... I was hoping this kit would work as it should for you. Hope it helps with cultivating that high end market you were aiming at but, in any event, I am quite sure you will get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

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    Re: S2 Impressions: A year later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It seems for me ... third time is a charm.

    -Marc
    HI Marc - contratulations . . . last time I looked you seemed to have given up.

    I hope this is the start of a long and happy relationship between you and the camera . . . me? next year maybe!

    Just this guy you know

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