S2 Impressions: A year later.

[GMB]

Here's my final conclusion:

The S2 kit is being returned immediately.

What I had not mentioned here before is that this is the second S2P body ... the first one had to be exchanged for a brand new one fresh from Germany ... which then failed.

Not angry, just disappointed because I really like the handling and all that. Leica simply needs to up their game in quality control. This camera should never have reached my hands.

Twice burned is all I give to any tool before losing trust in it ... even if a certified perfect one came my way, that nagging distrust is hard to shake. No thanks, I'm done.

Trust is earned not bought.

Thanks to all who helped, and best wishes to all the lucky folks with a S2 that works for them :thumbup:

-Marc

Oh ****......:angry:

Very sorry to hear. I understand your reaction. Reliability and trust in equipment is key.

However, I wonder whether you are not pouring out the kid with the bathtub. From what I have read so far, there have not been repeat complaints about the S2 being unreliable or about the shutter locks you experienced.

Anyway, many thanks for sharing your experience with the S2 and your thoughts about the system and working with it :clap:. We all benefit from this. Good luck with your Hassy and Sony systems. May be a third try with the S3 in a couple of years

Georg

PS: Out of curiosity: would you mind sharing what was the problem with the first S2P you got?

 

[xpixel]

It happens that there are serious issues with the S2. I had two of them... but i like it anyway.

 

[fotografz]

Oh ****......:angry:

Very sorry to hear. I understand your reaction. Reliability and trust in equipment is key.

However, I wonder whether you are not pouring out the kid with the bathtub. From what I have read so far, there have not been repeat complaints about the S2 being unreliable or about the shutter locks you experienced.

Anyway, many thanks for sharing your experience with the S2 and your thoughts about the system and working with it :clap:. We all benefit from this. Good luck with your Hassy and Sony systems. May be a third try with the S3 in a couple of years

Georg

PS: Out of curiosity: would you mind sharing what was the problem with the first S2P you got?

Appreciate the thoughts Georg.

I don't know the degree of complaints regarding the S2, some have sent it back (posted here), others have had more than one camera and are willing to put up with it (also posted here). How many is not terribly relevant to me ... if the one in my hand works ... then fine, if not ... then bye-bye.

Issues can be "one of", or more wide spread with any camera I suppose. One camera with issues and any company deserves the benefit of the doubt. To Leica's credit they replaced the first one with a cracked sensor immediately ... and probably would replace this one (if there are any available in the US) ... or send a new battery to test if that is a patterned problem they've noted.

However, I've spent over two intense weeks sorting through issues and concerns about basic stuff like the lock-up, AF, and flash operation with two different cameras. It's been like eating too much chocolate :ROTFL:

The question is why, at these incredibly high prices, does a photographer have to sort through issues after over a year in production? MFD is already a challenge to master when working perfectly. Throw in a bunch of questionable issues and/or real mis-steps and the task becomes far more difficult ... and somewhat unnerving.

While I seemed to grasp the S2 AF issue published by others, and seemed to overcome it in more leisure test conditions, it is the real world, on the job, that is the acid test. Of the 3 shots I was able to take before lock-up yesterday, one was hopelessly back focused, and a second one was marginal. The 150 shots taken with the Sony and fast aperture lenses were ALL in focus.

Not to beat a horse beyond dead ... but I've used a string of Hasselblads, one upgrade to another, on the job for years and years now, in raging Michigan winter storms, monsoon like down-pours, intense tropical heat ... for 8 hours straight ... and have been very lucky I guess ... my biggest issue has been the stupid eye cup falling off.

So, it doesn't matter if the S optics were forged by the Gods, and the camera designed by the ghost of Ferdinand Porsche, real beauty is the images you actually capture, not what you are carrying. Yes, it is wonderful when beauty and brains come together perfectly, which, in my specific instance, is what was promised and not delivered.

Just bad luck perhaps ... it does happen.

-Marc

 

[Bob]

There is a branch of engineering that some call reliability engineering, which is a specialty practiced by too few small scale camera companies. It takes into account not only the design but the operational environment.

Reliability engineering coupled with quality control discipline pushed back into the supply chain and appropriate audit have produced some impressive results in medical, aerospace, and many other industries.
My belief is that most of the issues other than firmware that I have personally experienced as well as have heard about with brand "L" are due to a lack of or in these two disciplines.

The goal of any company ought to be to sell a product, take the customer's money, and never hear from them again.

I cannot tell exactly what is the issue at Leica, but that might be a good operational goal or New Year's resolution for any company wishing to do a good and steady business with the professional photo market.

Not to put a fine point on it, but I slap myself every time I get a Leica acquisition urge and probably will continue to do so until I see evidence of competitive comparability in these regards.

Now if their stuff weren't so danged pretty I would save a whole lot of slapping...

-bob

 

[David K]

It happens that there are serious issues with the S2. I had two of them... but i like it anyway.

Would you please be more specific with regard to the issues you had with the S2. I'm a firm believer in showing the good, the bad and the ugly with all gear in the spirit of helping others know what to look for and consider. I've seen some of the images you've posted with this kit and can understand why you like it anyway. Thanks...

 

[David K]

Marc, do you recall the AF settings you were using with the S2, i.e. AFs or AFc and which button you used to achieve focus, shutter release or rear thumb button. I'm a thumb button focus guy and have the camera set accordingly. If I use the rear button to focus on a close object and then point the camera at a distant one it will still take the OOF image. Not so if I am using a half press of the shutter button to achieve focus. In that case pressing the shutter will not capture an image of an OOF subject. This is referenced in the manual but it's not all that clear. I'm inclined to doubt this was the cause of the problem for an experienced shooter such as yourself but thought it worth bringing to the attention of other S2 users in case they were unaware of it.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Would you please be more specific with regard to the issues you had with the S2. I'm a firm believer in showing the good, the bad and the ugly with all gear in the spirit of helping others know what to look for and consider. I've seen some of the images you've posted with this kit and can understand why you like it anyway. Thanks...

Absolutely totally agree here. Several other members on this forum deserve to know what issues so they can look for them as potential problems for them. We have REAL money on the line here and not some 5k investment. Granted you may like it anyway and so do many others including myself on a certain level but if someone is holding a 35k check in there hand ready to give it to a dealer would you not also like to know before handing that over. I can speak for the planet here you bet. It is one reason forums like this exist is to learn the good the bad and the ugly. I know David is in fact sitting there probably worried now as he already handed the check over. Main reason i even bother to do reviews of these cams is to figure this stuff out for the public at large.

 

[GMB]

The question is why, at these incredibly high prices, does a photographer have to sort through issues after over a year in production? MFD is already a challenge to master when working perfectly. Throw in a bunch of questionable issues and/or real mis-steps and the task becomes far more difficult ... and somewhat unnerving.

-Marc

Marc--I could not agree more. I spent too much time trying to figure out focus issues with the M8 and the M9 and various lenses. Always the nagging question is it me or the camera.

My biggest concern with the S2 would be to find the right dealer. There are two in Belgium but they both have their issues and both have to go via the Belgian importer rather than sorting things our straight with Leica. Then there is a good one in Cologne and Düsseldorf who both seem to have good relations with Leica--but they both are 200km away from where I live.

Decisions, decisions, decisions--and yesterday I thought I was there :banghead:

Georg

 

[xpixel]

Would you please be more specific with regard to the issues you had with the S2.

OK. The first issue was the main switch was not working anymore, that means not able to on/off the camera. The second issue siginificant lines in the pictures. That means in time twice in Solms. About 1 month overall. But i must say i have a brilliant dealer who was able to bridge the time with another S2.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Are these things fixed now.

 

[Valentin]

...If I use the rear button to focus on a close object and then point the camera at a distant one it will still take the OOF image. Not so if I am using a half press of the shutter button to achieve focus. In that case pressing the shutter will not capture an image of an OOF subject....

I too use the rear button for focus. Normally, people just press the button for focus and then release. Then take the picture. That's why the camera will take a OOF picture (if the subject moves or you didn't really achieve focus). If you want the same behavior as having the focus on the shutter, hold the rear button focus down while pressing the shutter: if OOF, it will not take the picture.

For me, sometimes the moment is more important than having a razor sharp image so I don't care if it captures the slightly OOF image. I need to capture the moment.

 

[David K]

OK. The first issue was the main switch was not working anymore, that means not able to on/off the camera. The second issue siginificant lines in the pictures. That means in time twice in Solms. About 1 month overall. But i must say i have a brilliant dealer who was able to bridge the time with another S2.

Thanks for the response. Certainly shouldn't have happened but it sounds like specific camera issues and not something that I need to look out for.

 

[ceh]

I now..
I am an amateur photographer.
I've never had a problem with S2.
Many are in their "own hands".
Manipulation, menus, output is better than M645 AFDIII and L.Aptus 65s ,Has H3D22
...I have owned these cameras ...

Battery life is unparalleled.
AF after the last firmware is flawless.
Ease of use is incredible.This can not write the previous cameras.
White balance was always a problem with previous cameras.Especially Leaf Aptus.
Now use automatic WB.
Rear LCD is 100 years ahead of others in class MF.
Reaction time after power is also.
Precise work, compact size.
...These few words are for those who are reluctant.:salute:

 

[fotografz]

Consider:

First camera arrived broken. Second camera wouldn't shoot photos.

Two strikes and Leica is out. Three strikes and I'm out ... of business.

If it worked, I'd own it, warts and all.

Addressing counter points one-by-one is fruitless. Suffice it to say after tens of thousands of images, Hasselblad has delivered ... under pressure, fast enough, in focus, with image quality ... from day one. I trust it.

Those lucky enough to have a good S2 ... enjoy and be well

All the best,

-Marc

 

[xpixel]

Are these things fixed now.

Yes all is fixed.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Great news . Just when I hear sensor issues than my ears perk up. No real workaround for that. None of these systems are perfect and i had a complete failure of a old AFDIII body and that was a OMG. On/Off switches not working there are workarounds in the s2 case just remove the battery. I had a battery latch issue on my P40+ but a easy work around and that is now fixed but I could have went for months like that. Those things will let you keep working but major failures and anything with the sensor than it usually is a trace back to initial build. That is the stuff that will ruin your day on a hurry. For me the S2 is something worth looking at as the system matures more and gets some age on it. It's a brand new product and some of these OEM's have gone through the growing pains which some things are understandable but sensors are not IMHO.

 

[Bob]

Great news . Just when I hear sensor issues than my ears perk up. No real workaround for that. None of these systems are perfect and i had a complete failure of a old AFDIII body and that was a OMG. On/Off switches not working there are workarounds in the s2 case just remove the battery. I had a battery latch issue on my P40+ but a easy work around and that is now fixed but I could have went for months like that. Those things will let you keep working but major failures and anything with the sensor than it usually is a trace back to initial build. That is the stuff that will ruin your day on a hurry. For me the S2 is something worth looking at as the system matures more and gets some age on it. It's a brand new product and some of these OEM's have gone through the growing pains which some things are understandable but sensors are not IMHO.

Guy,
A Jersey boy like you ought to be able to jump start any camera I figure. Just don't let the townies catch you doing it. :ROTFL:
-bob

 

[Guy Mancuso]

LOL . 10 seconds for VW in and running with first gear employed. LOL
20 seconds for a ford 150 pick me up

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Marc,

Was this S2 a demo or a fresh new model? Perhaps, if it's a demo it might explain a few things. Also, i'm not sure of Leica's shipping methods, but I was surprised when Hasselblad sent me my H4D ( 1st and 2nd models ), with very little padding or protection. In addition, there was no high value declared by Hasselblad on these shipments, which means they get tossed around in the back of the truck! I was told by UPS, that if you ship a high value item they make sure it's shipped with care (last on, last off). Any known issues with other Leica products? I'm considering a M9.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Actually, I meant to say last on, first off.