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Thread: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Been going about in my head on this and something that has bugged me for awhile. I shoot the P40+ which is a crop sensor and i do have a crop mark in the focusing screen but lets be honest here sometime it gets confusing in the viewfinder as you don't always SEE the crop lines due to subject being shot. I want to find a way to send out or have made a new screen for my DF and I bet Hassy shooters might be interested as well. So any good ideas about how to grey out a screen like say 50 percent or something or who could actually make screens for our bodies.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Hi Guy,

    Someone recently recommended this company to me:

    http://brightscreenstore.com/store/

    But I have not had time to check them out. I'm very interested in the same so please let me know what you do or find - I've noticed that my eyes are not as good as they used to be, so it's getting more difficult to manually focus. Thank you and be well.

    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    www.jecxz.com


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Been going about in my head on this and something that has bugged me for awhile. I shoot the P40+ which is a crop sensor and i do have a crop mark in the focusing screen but lets be honest here sometime it gets confusing in the viewfinder as you don't always SEE the crop lines due to subject being shot. I want to find a way to send out or have made a new screen for my DF and I bet Hassy shooters might be interested as well. So any good ideas about how to grey out a screen like say 50 percent or something or who could actually make screens for our bodies.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    something like this woudn't work?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Where did you get that. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Where did you get that. LOL
    by now that's unfortunately only avilable in Photoshop.
    Should be really easy to simply darken the outer area of the regular masks.
    Otherwise manufacturers of plastic distance spacers can make customized masks. But of course I can't suggest one in the US...

    I don't know the dimensions of the Mamiya masks... but the Contax masks provided by Phase are exactly what you are looking for; they are grey, so they darken the edges while still beeing translucent. Maybe you can cut some Contax-masks to fit into your Mamiya screen?

    Not quite sure... but doesn't Leaf provide different finder masks?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Did they forget there own brand or what. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    get a fiberglass scratch brush. take a ruler to cover the inner frame of the screen* and scrub the outer area with the fiberglass pen. Will not really darken the outer frame... but will blur it effectively.

    ~ $5 + 10minutes of work

    * screen?? no, the mask !!
    OTOH... if you don't mind trashing $200 you can also try it with a screen :-)

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Here Guy... I've just ordered some shims from this company http://www.dremicut.de/precision_cutting_parts.html to adjust my screens in the Contax (stainless steel in this case, not plastic). They can make customized shims down to 0.005mm thickness (depending on the size of the pieces).
    Of course that's a bit too far away from Arizona :-) ... just thought to post the link so it will give you an idea what kind of company you should search for.
    (you can switch to English language in the lower left corner of the site)

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I just thought about that topic few days ago... Wouldn't it be great if Phase/Mamiya could improve their next camera body with this feature:

    A built in finder magnification!

    First of all, I do not know whether it's technically possible to implement all that is needed. But I believe it could work just like the diopter adjustment element contolled by the dial on the left hand side of the finder. Let's say we'd have another dial on the bottom part of the finder to control the magnification factor, which should range from 1.0 to 2.0 (or at least 1.5).

    So if you own a P30+ Back and use a focusing screen with crop lines, you could simply turn the dial three times to have a magnification factor of 1.3 and a completely filled finder.

    If this doesn't work, Phase/Mamiya could sell diopter adjustment lenses with the magnification factors explained above.


    What do you think?

  10. #10
    jamie123
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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Why not just make a mask yourself out of a thin foil? Maybe from a sheet of ND filter or maybe you can even find some thin adhesive foil.

    Another option would be to just take a wide non-permanent black marker and make a wide black frame around the crop marks.

    Both these DIY options, if done with proper care, could result in a very clean and professional looking crop screen.

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    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I have on my list of things to purchase this winter a Brightscreen #5-Diagonal for Hassie H3D2. http://www.brightscreen.com/styles.html . There's a 10 day return policy so just want to make sure when I purchase it I'm in studio working.

    I know with my Canon gear I've taken their screen and just put some Exacto knife lines for my 8x10 crop. Works fine, but as Guy said, sometimes you just don't see the lines or ignore them.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    In addition to everything else focus-screen related he does, Bill Maxwell can also add crop marks and/or gray out the outside edges of the focus screen. I had him do both when he treated my Contax screens with his enhancement magic and the combo works very, very well with my P30+.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    get a fiberglass scratch brush. take a ruler to cover the inner frame of the screen* and scrub the outer area with the fiberglass pen. Will not really darken the outer frame... but will blur it effectively.

    ~ $5 + 10minutes of work

    * screen?? no, the mask !!
    OTOH... if you don't mind trashing $200 you can also try it with a screen :-)
    Thomas was thinking of sort of the same thing , something to mar the outside crop lines. This maybe a good solution
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    I just thought about that topic few days ago... Wouldn't it be great if Phase/Mamiya could improve their next camera body with this feature:

    A built in finder magnification!

    First of all, I do not know whether it's technically possible to implement all that is needed. But I believe it could work just like the diopter adjustment element contolled by the dial on the left hand side of the finder. Let's say we'd have another dial on the bottom part of the finder to control the magnification factor, which should range from 1.0 to 2.0 (or at least 1.5).

    So if you own a P30+ Back and use a focusing screen with crop lines, you could simply turn the dial three times to have a magnification factor of 1.3 and a completely filled finder.

    If this doesn't work, Phase/Mamiya could sell diopter adjustment lenses with the magnification factors explained above.


    What do you think?
    Man have you been reading my mind. I whole heartedly agree and I am so hoping the next body has this. It will eliminate the FF need

    Someone from Phase please listen to this suggestion and run with it. WE WANT IT. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    Why not just make a mask yourself out of a thin foil? Maybe from a sheet of ND filter or maybe you can even find some thin adhesive foil.

    Another option would be to just take a wide non-permanent black marker and make a wide black frame around the crop marks.

    Both these DIY options, if done with proper care, could result in a very clean and professional looking crop screen.
    My issue with adding any type of physical element that may add thickness may throw focus off is my main concern. But matting it somehow or marker it somehow maybe the best answer
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    In addition to everything else focus-screen related he does, Bill Maxwell can also add crop marks and/or gray out the outside edges of the focus screen. I had him do both when he treated my Contax screens with his enhancement magic and the combo works very, very well with my P30+.
    Awesome this is good to know. I may go this route send him a screen have him do his brightness thing and than grey out the outside. Did not know Bill did the outside greying
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I just took simple permanent marker and draw crop lines on my RZ and AFD brightsreen made screens, when i got tired of having to shout "oh damn, hold that pose, i need to move a bit back"..

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Awesome this is good to know. I may go this route send him a screen have him do his brightness thing and than grey out the outside. Did not know Bill did the outside greying
    Guy, I am going to follow you on this one....perhaps he will want to do two of them at once.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Good idea Terry. When I get back from LA going to have this done.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I have a extra screen and tried a nail file. Not bad but think I need some really extra fine sandpaper maybe better like 300. Try more in the morning
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I'm puzzled by this thread. When I had a P45 (crop format) it came with several clear, very thin, transparent masks with a bold black line demarcating the crop. You would place the mask on the focussing screen so as not to change its position for focus purposes.

    Does Phase no longer supply these with crop format backs? Or am I missing something here?

    Bill

    PS the other solution is to use the P65+......

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Not only will Bill Maxwell add frame lines, but he can change them later when you buy that P65+. I bought a ground glass from him that he marked with the P25+ lines, and he told me I could send it back for remarking if I ever changed backs.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I'm puzzled by this thread. When I had a P45 (crop format) it came with several clear, very thin, transparent masks with a bold black line demarcating the crop. You would place the mask on the focussing screen so as not to change its position for focus purposes.

    Does Phase no longer supply these with crop format backs? Or am I missing something here?

    Bill

    PS the other solution is to use the P65+......
    I like the P65+ solution but not the cost

    Phase One supply a bunch of little masks for 33x44 with the P40+ at least. Also, I did some research a while ago for an etched screen for the 645DF for 33x44mm and the information I got was that there are two screens available:

    Mamiya:
    252-22783A Focusing Screen Type A SP303 44x33 (Mfr number 324482)

    Leaf:
    252-22782A Mamiya focusing screen 44x33

    They both come in a Mamiya box with tweezers, the only difference is that on the Mamiya one the mask is blacked out whereas on the Leaf it’s just an engraved line.
    I have the Leaf version in my 645DF. I've never seen the 324482 version but I assume that's what's fitted to the DM28/DM40 from the factory. Maybe a DM user can confirm.

    I'd too like a grey frame border if it is available. Maybe the Maxwell Precision Optics route is the one to go down.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 4th January 2011 at 19:31.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Graham I will Have mine for the workshop so you can check it out. Heck I may just send my screen tomorrow to him. Not shooting the phase this coming week anyway
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    You might be wondering why I'm crouched over your 645DF with a set of tweezers in my hand

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    You might be wondering why I'm crouched over your 645DF with a set of tweezers in my hand
    Not if I visit Arizona first .

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I'm puzzled by this thread. When I had a P45 (crop format) it came with several clear, very thin, transparent masks with a bold black line demarcating the crop. You would place the mask on the focussing screen so as not to change its position for focus purposes.

    Does Phase no longer supply these with crop format backs? Or am I missing something here?

    Bill

    PS the other solution is to use the P65+......
    Yes but the THIN transparent lines don't keep me from forgetting that they are there .

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Bill I have the plastic masks that came with the back. Hate them . LOL

    I do have a P40+ screen with lines in mine right now (a real screen). What i may do is call Bill tomorrow and try to ship him my screen and have him grey outside the crop lines so i don't see what is going on out there and add his brightening treatment as well. I'm not shooting my Phase next week anyway so maybe perfect timing to get this done.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm not shooting my Phase next week anyway so maybe perfect timing to get this done.
    what do you do when you yet need the camera (for some unforeseeable reason)? What do you do when there is a delay (maybe not even on behalf of Bill M. but due to shipping or so). What do you do when the screen breaks while shipping?
    Really... I would buy a second screen; i.e. I would order a new one from Bill Maxwell. You've used your screen for quite a while... one or two weeks more time with the old screen doesn't hurt. But no screen will hurt.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    I actually have 3 screens here. Not sure how I got them all but I actually have backup screens. Starting to scare myself. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I actually have 3 screens here. Not sure how I got them all but I actually have backup screens. Starting to scare myself. LOL
    okay... my reading was you just have 1 screen and as you don't need it this week you'd take the chance to get it modified by Bill M.
    As you have more screens... no problem.
    One can never have too many screens :-)

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    Re: Cropped Sensor Focusing screens

    An old thread but I was wondering if Guy or anyone else ever got the focusing screen from Bill Maxwell and if so, how do you like it? 99% of my work is manual focus and there are times when it's fairly dim in the studio and having to constantly turn on and off overhead lights is a pain.

    Ron

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