Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 67 of 67

Thread: New Phase 35mm D series??

  1. #51
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Jack, I saw your post after I finished writing mine; as I said, non-EXIF lenses are the problem.

    But I continue to believe that the fundamental design of the 35mm has not changed in, what, thirty five years. I believe it is under-designed,
    Oh, to be clear I totally agree. I think I said in my mini review on page 1 that the Phase lens appears identical to the regular Mamiya AF version, save for graphics. I owned the MF version too many years ago to remember it exactly, but I suspect you are correct in that they are the same basic lens design too, but probably with revised optics like glass compositions and coatings. I further suspect tighter assembly and/or final inspection QC with the Phase lens, which is why I said the above image is "the best you can expect from the 35" in any form.

    It remains a good, usable lens, but is not a darling of the line-up

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  2. #52
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,486
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Agree about coatings ...

  3. #53
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Mine is here so I will test this weekend.

    Nice Silver ring. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  4. #54
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    I need to know how bad your old lens was in comparison

    Btw,

  5. #55
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I need to know how bad your old lens was in comparison

    Btw,
    It was good just needed money for the 55mm. LOL

    Vicious circle in the Dante's Inferno

    Hey we have some new smiles on the forum. Here are a few not related though
    :bang:
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  6. #56
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Trust me, I KNOW all about the bottomless pit ... I just ordered a new lens for my Alpa

  7. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Zug/Zurich (Switzerland), Dubai, Sydney
    Posts
    334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Claus Molgaard of Phase One(Chief Technology Officer and Vice President Research & Development) just this morning, so I asked him directly if this was the same lens as the Mamiya 35 we are familiar with.
    The answer was a clear "no".
    As he explains it, this new Phase One 35D uses the optical design of the previous lens as its starting point, so is not strictly a new design. However, its optics have been recalculated to optimise it for digital use. There are in fact significant changes to it. Manufacturing tolerances have also been tightened up significantly, so some of the variation we've been seeing between one 35 and the next should be significantly reduced.
    Once we have the lens correction for this lens built into C1, my guess is we'll be able to expect sterling results. Fingers crossed that I'm right.

    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

  8. #58
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,486
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Claus Molgaard of Phase One(Chief Technology Officer and Vice President Research & Development) just this morning, so I asked him directly if this was the same lens as the Mamiya 35 we are familiar with.
    The answer was a clear "no".
    As he explains it, this new Phase One 35D uses the optical design of the previous lens as its starting point, so is not strictly a new design. However, its optics have been recalculated to optimise it for digital use. There are in fact significant changes to it. Manufacturing tolerances have also been tightened up significantly, so some of the variation we've been seeing between one 35 and the next should be significantly reduced.
    Once we have the lens correction for this lens built into C1, my guess is we'll be able to expect sterling results. Fingers crossed that I'm right.

    Cheers,
    Continuing to think *thong* but.



    But seriously, I would expect that many — if not most — of the changes would be in non-glass areas; revamping assembly techniques, perhaps using more composites or plastics (no bad thing if done appropriately), and with tighter tolerances via simplified systems design only possible with new materials (moulding vs stamping vs milling etc.).

    I remember reading Norman Goldberg’s PopPhoto column in the ’70s about innovation in mechanical construction — electronics were only then beginning to emerge in the photographic industry — and the sheer ingenuity of new design and assembly concepts that didn’t compromise accuracy or durability was often astonishing.

    More OT, Goldberg designed a motor drive for the Leica of the day that used copper bolts so that the motor would shear off if/when the film jammed (maybe clutches were too expensive to implement — I thought that was pretty wild).

  9. #59
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,486
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Below is a brick wall shot today with an elderly 35N 250th f11. If the optical design of the lens has not changed, it will distort like this.



    But I shall reveal a secret recipe when the moment is ripe (twirls his moustaches melodramatically).
    Contacted the programmer of PTLens who had already profiled the 35mm Mamiya but needed to add the Aptus 22 to his database; he did that today, emailed to ask me to download the demo again, and this is the result:



    Not only has the distortion been much improved, the pic is now in colour! [Um, that second bit was a joke].

    I suggest that anyone in my position who is using older distorto lenses than do not give good EXIF should immediately run (not walk) to the PTLens website and download the demo to see if it fits your workflow. Both Mac and PC-compatible versions are available.

    I just wish there was a preset for the 50mm shift ...

    At $25 for an on-going license (including permanent updates to the database), for those who need it PTLens is a steal (Jack Flesher lauded it here a while back).

    Disclosure: I am not being paid to say this.
    Last edited by mediumcool; 23rd January 2011 at 06:58. Reason: removed comma

  10. #60
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Went out this morning in actually heavy wind so i gave up after awhile but wall tests show wide open center is very good and at 5.6 damn good. Now I'm on a P40+ and wide open normal sharpness falloff at 3.5 totally expected but even 5.6 is much better but F8 is the ticket. More data later and images. This just off the top seems to be much better than previous versions. Already i can call it a keeper
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #61
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Yep. On the P65+ f8 is very good, but the corners improve and center remains very good at f11. At f16 corners improve a teeny bit more and you do gain a smidge of DoF, but the rest of the image falls off from diffraction, so why I said it's a 50/50 tradeoff.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  12. #62
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    I think Jack as we always go through these lens test it always seems the Crop sensor like the P40 is 1 stop better than the Full Frame sensor which really makes perfect sense ( In the corners that is). Like to call it just as a general rule to be honest. The nice thing is all 4 corners at ALL apertures are the same. This is was plagued a lot of the older lenses unless you got lucky and found a really good copy which i know you have. Now maybe the variance is gone with the new lens. Lets hope that holds up which I think will now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #63
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Agree totally -- full-frame MF digital is very hard on lenses
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  14. #64
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    I am updating this since I did pull off at least one image last week at the Grand Canyon with the new 35mm on my P40+ at F11.

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  15. #65
    tomz
    Guest

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Thanks for this thread Guy and Jack! Bought this lens after reading this

  16. #66
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    After further real-world testing we have not invested in stocking large quantities of the Phase One 35mm D lens. While comparable to other medium format 35mm lenses we have tested it and found no evidence of significant improvement over good copies of the Mamiya 35mm lens.

    We will continue to take orders for the lens, as the quality control on the production of the new lens makes it appealing compared to ensuring your copy of the Mamiya 35mm lens is a good one.

    Since we're talking about testing 35mm lenses... Our testing of the Leica S2 35mm lens showed it to be the best medium format lens of this focal length by a safe margin (though not by a mile). Though it's critical when making comparisons to remember the difference between testing a 35mm lens with a cropped sensor versus full-frame sensor. The Phase & Mamiya 35mm lenses are both pretty darn good performing lenses with a cropped sensor, but on a full-frame sensor (P65+ / IQ160 / IQ180) the corner performance is only ok. Regarding the S2 35mm lens the (roughly) equivalent lens for a full frame digital back would be the 45mmD and this lens is a significantly better performer (both compared to the 35D and the 45 non-d).

    We have some image samples with the 35mm D lens on a P65+ that potential CI customers are welcome to contact me for.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    [size=6pt]
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto,*Broncolor,*Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off[/size]

  17. #67
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,486
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: New Phase 35mm D series??

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    After further real-world testing we have not invested in stocking large quantities of the Phase One 35mm D lens. While comparable to other medium format 35mm lenses we have tested it and found no evidence of significant improvement over good copies of the Mamiya 35mm lens.

    We will continue to take orders for the lens, as the quality control on the production of the new lens makes it appealing compared to ensuring your copy of the Mamiya 35mm lens is a good one.

    Since we're talking about testing 35mm lenses... Our testing of the Leica S2 35mm lens showed it to be the best medium format lens of this focal length by a safe margin (though not by a mile). Though it's critical when making comparisons to remember the difference between testing a 35mm lens with a cropped sensor versus full-frame sensor. The Phase & Mamiya 35mm lenses are both pretty darn good performing lenses with a cropped sensor, but on a full-frame sensor (P65+ / IQ160 / IQ180) the corner performance is only ok. Regarding the S2 35mm lens the (roughly) equivalent lens for a full frame digital back would be the 45mmD and this lens is a significantly better performer (both compared to the 35D and the 45 non-d).

    We have some image samples with the 35mm D lens on a P65+ that potential CI customers are welcome to contact me for.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    [size=6pt]
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto,*Broncolor,*Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off[/size]
    Pretty much confirms this.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •