New Phase 35mm D series??

[mediumcool]

Below is a brick wall shot today with an elderly 35N 250th f11. Facial hair abundantly everywhere!

If the optical design of the lens has not changed, it will distort like this.

Saw this effect many years ago, did not care for it, so bought a 45mm to use instead on my M645 Super.

But I shall reveal a secret recipe when the moment is ripe (twirls his moustaches melodramatically).

 

[Guy Mancuso]

C1 has corrections for all it's modern lenses for distortion. Actually this is pretty typical of any wide angle. Now is this worse than others not sure ( probably so)but all lenses from even 50mm wider will distort to some effect. This is a very simple fix in C1 and when my new 35D lens comes today I can show with and without corrections. In this case your talking a very old lens design which dates back to the 80's or earlier. This is not the same lens formula as the newer ones and even the previous AF one.

 

[Bob]

Below is a brick wall shot today with an elderly 35N 250th f11. Facial hair abundantly everywhere!

If the optical design of the lens has not changed, it will distort like this.

Saw this effect many years ago, did not care for it, so bought a 45mm to use instead on my M645 Super.

But I shall reveal a secret recipe when the moment is ripe (twirls his moustaches melodramatically).

Should never lay bricks after strong drink.
-bob

 

[Jack]

MediumCool: FWIW C1 does corrections for distortion and falloff for the AF version automatically since it can read the EXIF and knows what lens it is.

 

[mediumcool]

C1 has corrections for all it's modern lenses for distortion. Actually this is pretty typical of any wide angle. Now is this worse than others not sure ( probably so)but all lenses from even 50mm wider will distort to some effect. This is a very simple fix in C1 and when my new 35D lens comes today I can show with and without corrections. In this case your talking a very old lens design which dates back to the 80's or earlier. This is not the same lens formula as the newer ones and even the previous AF one.

Guy, I know about the database for lens correction built into C1. But it seems to me that the 35mm has not been updated in any way that improves its distortion (moustached then, moustached now) over many years. I don’t think there has been a re-design of the optical elements at all. Mechanical outers, yes.

Point 1:
I downloaded Jack’s RAW file and applied two of the distortion presets available with the file: “Mamiya AF 35mm 35mm f/3.5” and “Phase One Digital AF 35mm 35mm f/3.5 ”. Zero difference = identical distortion characteristics. Progress, or just another name on the lens?

Point 2:
filter size 77mm since birth, pretty much the same dimensions, and the same small rear element (see below for a rear shot of an AF’s rear end compared with the N unit I have). Many lenses when re-designed change shape (get longer, shorter, thicker, thinner); not this particular black duck!

Maybe jack could comment on the rear element size if he noticed it.

I would have thought a re-engineered [larger] rear element would help combat vignetting and reduction of extreme angle rays to the corners of the frame, therebye reducing colour shift. But of course designers also have to consider the highly reflective glass of a sensor cover vs the matte surface of film as an influencing factor in lens design/redesign.

If the new 35 had a different optical layout (a change from the 9 elements/7 groups it has had since its introduction in ), a larger rear element and maybe some special or aspherical glass it would be worth looking at as something very desirable, and new. Methinks emperor PO is wearing at best a thong re this topic.

And less build variation would be nice too.

BTW I was speaking of a distortion solution for those, like me, who use older lenses; I also have a Mamiya 50mm shift and would like a profile for it; in fact I would like to be able to apply any lens profile to any lens I want to, but it seems C1 prevents this if there is no lens EXIF data. An import solution wouldn’t be too hard to implement, and would assist with handling the view cameras lenses I am beginning to acquire.

 

[mediumcool]

Jack, I saw your post after I finished writing mine; as I said, non-EXIF lenses are the problem.

But I continue to believe that the fundamental design of the 35mm has not changed in, what, thirty five years. I believe it is under-designed, though that is somewhat fixable through software these days—look at the astonishing distortion figure of the Olympus 17mm micro4/3 lens of nearly 5%!

 

[mediumcool]

Should never lay bricks after strong drink.
-bob

Ha! What about waking up in the morning? Next to a brick ...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, I know about the database for lens correction built into C1. But it seems to me that the 35mm has not been updated in any way that improves its distortion (moustached then, moustached now) over many years. I don’t think there has been a re-design of the optical elements at all. Mechanical outers, yes.

Point 1:
I downloaded Jack’s RAW file and applied two of the distortion presets available with the file: “Mamiya AF 35mm 35mm f/3.5” and “Phase One Digital AF 35mm 35mm f/3.5 ”. Zero difference = identical distortion characteristics. Progress, or just another name on the lens?

Point 2:
filter size 77mm since birth, pretty much the same dimensions, and the same small rear element (see below for a rear shot of an AF’s rear end compared with the N unit I have). Many lenses when re-designed change shape (get longer, shorter, thicker, thinner); not this particular black duck!

Maybe jack could comment on the rear element size if he noticed it.

I would have thought a re-engineered [larger] rear element would help combat vignetting and reduction of extreme angle rays to the corners of the frame, therebye reducing colour shift. But of course designers also have to consider the highly reflective glass of a sensor cover vs the matte surface of film as an influencing factor in lens design/redesign.

If the new 35 had a different optical layout (a change from the 9 elements/7 groups it has had since its introduction in ), a larger rear element and maybe some special or aspherical glass it would be worth looking at as something very desirable, and new. Methinks emperor PO is wearing at best a thong re this topic.

And less build variation would be nice too.

BTW I was speaking of a distortion solution for those, like me, who use older lenses; I also have a Mamiya 50mm shift and would like a profile for it; in fact I would like to be able to apply any lens profile to any lens I want to, but it seems C1 prevents this if there is no lens EXIF data. An import solution wouldn’t be too hard to implement, and would assist with handling the view cameras lenses I am beginning to acquire.

Not sure but have a hard believing it is the exact same design over thirty years. Need someone from Phase to set us straight or Doug may know. I also agree it would be nice for C1 to have a analyze the lens for distortion feature or better yet a manual control for any lens built into the software with slider adjustments. A suggestion we should pass on to the engineers. They have it for CA but distortion would be a nice feature for sure.

 

[mediumcool]

I also agree it would be nice for C1 to have a analyze the lens for distortion feature or better yet a manual control for any lens built into the software with slider adjustments. A suggestion we should pass on to the engineers. They have it for CA but distortion would be a nice feature for sure.

Couldn’t agree more!

But one thing that good software designers maintain as a goal is simplicity, so adding features (unless you’re Microsoft) is generally done carefully and after much consideration.

But a manual distortion control tool a bit more sophisticated than what is already available would be useful.

Putting it in perspective (no pun intended), I paid only $146US for the 35N on eBay, and the freight to Oz was $45, so it’s probably a short-term prospect for me. Or, I may end up doing a lot of stitching with my new 45mm Rodenstock, or even get a 35mm to use on the Toyo 23.

Love digital. Haven’t had so much photo fun for many years!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Agree last thing we want is bloated software that slows the system down.

 

[Jack]

Jack, I saw your post after I finished writing mine; as I said, non-EXIF lenses are the problem.

But I continue to believe that the fundamental design of the 35mm has not changed in, what, thirty five years. I believe it is under-designed,

Oh, to be clear I totally agree. I think I said in my mini review on page 1 that the Phase lens appears identical to the regular Mamiya AF version, save for graphics. I owned the MF version too many years ago to remember it exactly, but I suspect you are correct in that they are the same basic lens design too, but probably with revised optics like glass compositions and coatings. I further suspect tighter assembly and/or final inspection QC with the Phase lens, which is why I said the above image is "the best you can expect from the 35" in any form.

It remains a good, usable lens, but is not a darling of the line-up

Cheers,

 

[mediumcool]

Agree about coatings ...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Mine is here so I will test this weekend.

Nice Silver ring. LOL

 

[GrahamWelland]

I need to know how bad your old lens was in comparison oke:

Btw,

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I need to know how bad your old lens was in comparison oke:

Btw,

It was good just needed money for the 55mm. LOL

Vicious circle in the Dante's Inferno

Hey we have some new smiles on the forum. Here are a few not related though
:watch::SPAM:oke::bang::OT:

 

[GrahamWelland]

Trust me, I KNOW all about the bottomless pit ... I just ordered a new lens for my Alpa

 

[goesbang]

I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Claus Molgaard of Phase One(Chief Technology Officer and Vice President Research & Development) just this morning, so I asked him directly if this was the same lens as the Mamiya 35 we are familiar with.
The answer was a clear "no".
As he explains it, this new Phase One 35D uses the optical design of the previous lens as its starting point, so is not strictly a new design. However, its optics have been recalculated to optimise it for digital use. There are in fact significant changes to it. Manufacturing tolerances have also been tightened up significantly, so some of the variation we've been seeing between one 35 and the next should be significantly reduced.
Once we have the lens correction for this lens built into C1, my guess is we'll be able to expect sterling results. Fingers crossed that I'm right.

Cheers,

 

[mediumcool]

I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Claus Molgaard of Phase One(Chief Technology Officer and Vice President Research & Development) just this morning, so I asked him directly if this was the same lens as the Mamiya 35 we are familiar with.
The answer was a clear "no".
As he explains it, this new Phase One 35D uses the optical design of the previous lens as its starting point, so is not strictly a new design. However, its optics have been recalculated to optimise it for digital use. There are in fact significant changes to it. Manufacturing tolerances have also been tightened up significantly, so some of the variation we've been seeing between one 35 and the next should be significantly reduced.
Once we have the lens correction for this lens built into C1, my guess is we'll be able to expect sterling results. Fingers crossed that I'm right.

Cheers,

Continuing to think *thong* but.



But seriously, I would expect that many — if not most — of the changes would be in non-glass areas; revamping assembly techniques, perhaps using more composites or plastics (no bad thing if done appropriately), and with tighter tolerances via simplified systems design only possible with new materials (moulding vs stamping vs milling etc.).

I remember reading Norman Goldberg’s PopPhoto column in the ’70s about innovation in mechanical construction — electronics were only then beginning to emerge in the photographic industry — and the sheer ingenuity of new design and assembly concepts that didn’t compromise accuracy or durability was often astonishing.

More OT, Goldberg designed a motor drive for the Leica of the day that used copper bolts so that the motor would shear off if/when the film jammed (maybe clutches were too expensive to implement — I thought that was pretty wild).

 

[mediumcool]

Below is a brick wall shot today with an elderly 35N 250th f11. If the optical design of the lens has not changed, it will distort like this.

But I shall reveal a secret recipe when the moment is ripe (twirls his moustaches melodramatically).

Contacted the programmer of PTLens who had already profiled the 35mm Mamiya but needed to add the Aptus 22 to his database; he did that today, emailed to ask me to download the demo again, and this is the result:

Not only has the distortion been much improved, the pic is now in colour! [Um, that second bit was a joke].

I suggest that anyone in my position who is using older distorto lenses than do not give good EXIF should immediately run (not walk) to the PTLens website and download the demo to see if it fits your workflow. Both Mac and PC-compatible versions are available.

I just wish there was a preset for the 50mm shift ...

At $25 for an on-going license (including permanent updates to the database), for those who need it PTLens is a steal (Jack Flesher lauded it here a while back).

Disclosure: I am not being paid to say this.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Went out this morning in actually heavy wind so i gave up after awhile but wall tests show wide open center is very good and at 5.6 damn good. Now I'm on a P40+ and wide open normal sharpness falloff at 3.5 totally expected but even 5.6 is much better but F8 is the ticket. More data later and images. This just off the top seems to be much better than previous versions. Already i can call it a keeper