I'm drinking the Pentax 645D Kool aid

[kuau]

I just couldn't resist, so I took the plunge back into MFD, and so far my opinion is mixed about the 645D, On it's own as a body only, I can't find one think I don't like about it, sure you can't remove the back, but that's what I wanted something totally integrated and weather sealed.
Now the part that I am not to sure about.
Lenses, Lenses, Lenses, buying used or old 'new stock FA" lenses is a total crap shot. Sure there are some good deals out there but.. you never know what you are going to get.
I started with all used of course:
45mm FA = great in 2/3rds of the frame edges start to go fuzzy even at F16
75mm FA = A little better then the 45mm but still something missing.
120mm A = A is manual focus btw, not a bad lens, a keeper.
200mm FA = Jury is still out on this one, need to do more testing.

I looked at a 35mm FA, I thought looked like garbage, so I passed on that, this one was a new one old stock in the box for 1300.00.
Acephoto was my dealer, I know not the greatest reputation, but they are listed on the pentax usa website as a 645D dealer and they had a few in stock. Actually the transaction went very smooth, and they did do some test shoots for me with the 35mm FA which I just mentioned about.

So for now, I really not sure where I am at. I broke down one more time and am awaiting deliver of a 45-85mm FA lens, keeping my fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

Now here are a few sample from the other day....
Steven

 

[Godfrey]

I had the Pentax A35mm f/3.5 645 lens for a while and found it to be a fine performer. The A45mm f/2.8 also seemed to be a better performer than the FA model that succeeded it.

Leonard Iron & Metal - Virginia 2006
Pentax 645 + A35/3.5
Tri-X in XTOL, Av mode
Scanned with Epson V700
​

Never worked with either of them on a digital body, however.

 

[kuau]

Godfrey,
great images,
yet these lenses that performed well on the original 645's means nothing now in the digital world. This is what is so frustrating.

-steven

 

[D&A]

Hi Steven,

I've worked a little bit with the 645D and you hit the nail on the head so to speak. The lenses (quite a few of them) are the weak point of the system...specifically their interaction and performance on the 645D body. Not all of them but many don't perform up to the standards they did when shot on film. This not only includes some of the FA lenses but older legacy lenses, that did well on film 645, have the optical wekanesses you described on the 645D digital body. It's a crap shoot. Pentax had this issue with many of their incredible FA 35mm lenses used on film...some of the best in the industry and even in some cases outperformed Nikon's best, but since so few shot with both systems at the time (I did), few knew how exceptional and sometimes ahead of their time they were (both optically and construction. It was no wonder their 80-200 f2.8 was over $1900.00 when all Nikon had at the time was their excellent 2 touch 80-200 f2.8 at approx $900.00. When Pentax came out with their 35mm DSLR's (their first up to the present, ...many of those great legacy lenses lacked in optical performance (besides other well known issues). I had a long association with Pentax USA and even they quietly acknowledged this. I believe Pentax is aware of some of the issues using these legacy lenses with the 645D (including some of the FA's) and it will be some time before there are new releases. The same situation occured in resolving some of their similar 35mm DSLR issues with 35mm FA lenses, but designing digital specific lenses that really made a difference. In some ways the underlying platform is not too dissimilar for them (their 35mm DSLRs and the 645D).

P.S....Steve, I just sent you an e-mail.

Dave (D&A)

 

[bensonga]

Wish I had a 645D here to test some of my many 645 and 67 lenses on.

Steve....what lens did you use for the images of the frozen waterfalls? Those look pretty good in the web sized display on my monitor....how do they look to you at full resolution?

I agree (and I think I've said it before) that for the 645D to be a real success, Pentax has got to step up and produce some equally fine new lenses. Disappointing to hear that the new 55mm released with the 645D may not be up to snuff.

I would really like to try some of my Pentax 67 lenses on a 645D someday.

Gary

 

[D&A]

Gary,

I had heard through colleagues that there have been quite some serious QC issues with many samples of the new 55mm they recently released, unfortunately. The good samples are exceptionaly good..but it has been troubling for some. I've seen one and immediately saw what might have been a contributing factor to its poor performance. I'm sure in time if the 645D prooves to be successful, Pentax will sort much of this out.

Dave (D&A)

 

[bensonga]

Hi Dave. I hope Pentax sorts it out fairly quickly. In this day and age, folks don't have alot of patience.....especially after spending $10k for a camera. I wouldn't either. I had hoped that more than a few of the 645 or 67 legacy lenses would be useable (ie meet most folks needs) on the 645D....until Pentax came out with a complete new line of lenses optimized for the 645D. In this market, Pentax really can't afford to dilly dally.....not if they hope to move some high end prosumers or even pros from their Canons and Nikons. I really doubt that many Phase One or Hasselblad owners will be switching to Pentax (not to mention those in the market for a Leica S2).

Now if we could only find a way to put Leica S2 lenses on a Pentax 645D body.....or maybe some of those fine Mamiya lenses. Heck, I've got an adapter to mount my Hasselbald V-series lenses on my 645NII....so I suppose almost anything is possible.

Gary

 

[D&A]

Hi Gary,

You're right. Pentax needs to get a move on this but to be honest, I think it will be slow going. If their response to their DSLR situation is any indicator, then its going to be quite some time...and remember, in the last 3-5 years, their DSLR was their bread and butter in general photography. They initially came out with the 645D to showcase their talents and to demonstate to those thinking of purchasing a Pentax DSLR, that Pentax has advanced developmental skills. Its like a company showing what they could do with their R&D and that there wil be a trickle down effect in regards to technology into to their regular DSLR and general product line. That was the initial reason for the eventual green light to put the 645D into production. Whether Tokina (the parent company now) finds it feasable to put more $$ into the system is hard to say...and if they do, how much.

I recall when Pentax came out with their DSLR's..a few of us had some of the highest performing Pro Pentax glass imaginable...including their rarely produced 250-600 f5.6 ED lens (a behemoth) and 600 f4 and 300 f2.8 etc. Although they were superb on film, most of these mentioned were downright mediocre, if that, on their various their DSLR's. There were athough some of their high performance lenses that kept their great performance on the DSLr..but it was a case by case basis. Even some of their other excellent wider focal length lenses lacked the same performance characteristics on their DSLRs. I discussed this at length with Penatx USA on many occasions. The same thing, to some degree, appears to be happening with the 645D...although how universal with various lenses only time will tell. There are also some alignment issues talked about, but this is seperate from the lens performance characteristics on the 645D just described. I think regarding 67 lenses on the 645D..it will have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I think if anything, their primary customer for this camera may be the DLSR user stepping up..more so then users of current DMF systems. Thats a personal take on my part.

Dave (D&A)

 

[bensonga]

I think if anything, their primary customer for this camera may be the DLSR user stepping up..more so then users of current DMF systems. Thats a personal take on my part.
Dave (D&A)

And if that is the case, then having a line up of good lenses for the 645D is even more critical....since DSLR users are accustomed to a wide selection of lenses, even from the smaller makers such as Pentax and Olympus.

I had thought that the initial customers for a 645D would be existing 645 or 67 users who could become "early adopters" by using their existing 645 and 67 lenses on the 645D....assuming of course, that these produced the kind of high quality images they are accustomed to achieving on 645/67 film. If I hadn't already bought a Hasselblad 503CWD/CFV16 setup, I would have been a likely buyer of the 645D, to use with my P67 lenses. Ever the optomist...I even went out and bought a nice used 645NII and a few 645 manual focus lenses, thinking that someday I might pick up a 645D. Well, I'm still hopeful that this will all pan out....but somewhat less so than I was a few months ago.

 

[rjones]

Re: Pentax 645D

On my 645D, I've now tested: FA35, FA75/2.8, FA120/4, FA150/2.8, FA200/4, FA300/5.6, A*600/5.6, FA45-85, and a P67 55/4 (latest model). I think all are superb. The weakest is perhaps the 45-85. (I purposefully avoided the FA45 and new 55 lenses.) A surprise was how amazingly sharp was the P67 55/4. (Still need to test is a late model P67 45mm.) All of the lenses have wonderful corner to corner sharpness and excellent contrast, especially by f5.6. Only the FA35 needed a focus adjustment.

Over the past few years, I've shot with Leaf 65 on a Mamiya 645, Hy6 (fizzle...), Contax 645 with eMotion 75 and Phase 65+. The Pentax 645D has a superior body and sensor, with the sensor only bested in the above group by the Phase 65+ on an Alpa. Autofocus is as fast as I remember on the Mamiya (and more accurate), and faster and quieter than the Contax.

I've carried the above systems on lengthy international trips and up to now, only the Alpa has been enjoyable to carry. (The Contax 35 and 210 lenses are monsters compared to the Pentax versions.)

However, I look forward to a rather light pack with the 645D and the 35, 75, 150 and 300/5.6 lenses (the 300/5.6 version is around 700 gms; the 300/4 version, about 1400 gms). I've no concern about sacrificing quality as compared to the other systems (well, maybe I'd substitute the FA35 with the Alpa/P65+ and the 35 Rodenstock HR.)

 

[D&A]

Interesting info! I tested two samples of the FA35 (taking into acc't any focus adj needed)..one was very good (not exceptional), the other was not good. Agree, the 45-85 was so-so and the findings regarding the new 55 mirrors yours (see my comments above). My experience and testing of the 645D was brief, but opinions have specifically varied (sometimes greatly) on which lenses performed well on the 645D and which haven't. I think it will take some time to get this sorted out, so there will be a more consistent consensus regarding specific lens performance, alignment and other sorted details.

Dave (D&A)

 

[bensonga]

Re: Pentax 645D

On my 645D, I've now tested: FA35, FA75/2.8, FA120/4, FA150/2.8, FA200/4, FA300/5.6, A*600/5.6, FA45-85, and a P67 55/4 (latest model). I think all are superb.

It would be great if you could share some of your images with us here!

Gary

 

[Steen]

(...)
Steve....what lens did you use for the images of the frozen waterfalls? Those look pretty good in the web sized display on my monitor....how do they look to you at full resolution?
(...)

+ 1
the rendring of the frozen waterfall looks formidable, Steven :thumbup:

 

[D&A]

Steven, the exif data says your 1st shot of the frozen waterfall was taken with the 75mm lens. Was #2 the 120mm and #3 the 200mm? Just a guess. Thanks!

Dave (D&A)

 

[fotografz]

Wish I had a 645D here to test some of my many 645 and 67 lenses on.

Steve....what lens did you use for the images of the frozen waterfalls? Those look pretty good in the web sized display on my monitor....how do they look to you at full resolution?

I agree (and I think I've said it before) that for the 645D to be a real success, Pentax has got to step up and produce some equally fine new lenses. Disappointing to hear that the new 55mm released with the 645D may not be up to snuff.

I would really like to try some of my Pentax 67 lenses on a 645D someday.

Gary

Gary, does anyone make a V adapter for the Pentax mount?

CFE 40/IF would rock on this camera ... so would the 60, 100, 180 and 250SA ... then there are the fast F & FEs ... 110/2 ... yummy!

If there isn't one, someone should make it quick :thumbup:

-Marc

 

[rjones]

Marc,

Kipon makes a good adapter that I've used; available through eBay.

 

[rjones]

Re: Pentax 645D

Gary,

Here is one image with the FA 150/2.8 at f3.2 (ISO 200 and 1/125 s).

Unfortunately, you cannot accurately judge the color. Something odd happens after I upload. I've tried output using different color spaces, but I cannot get any to upload that like what I have on my computer. What you see is as close as I can get but the skin tone is off. So what I see and print, is not coming across.

 

[D&A]

rjones...might you have any shots from the FA 35mm that you could post? Thats the one that seems to be all over the map, in terms of performance (and sounds like you got a good one). I believe a new FA 28mm (which I eroniously thought previously might be a 24mm) is due to be released sometime in 2011. Thanks!

Dave (D&A)

 

[kuau]

Wow I just woke up to a firestorm.
Dave, the first image was take with the 75mm fa, images two and three were both taken with 120mm "a" manual focus, that's why there is no exif info on those images, only fa lens show up in exif.

Rjones, sounds like you tested a lot of the fa lens, my question thoughts try testing them for landscape work, shooting on a tripod, mlu f11 or so and infinity or close to infinity focus and then tell me about how the corners look. The image you posted was shot almost wide open portrait so the edges don't matter, the only way to post images so they display correctly on this site is to use the(img) http link to your img (/img) I found the same problem you did using attach image does something to the color.
Check with Jack he can explain better.

What scares me about adaptors is then I'm stuck with Mf the 645d does not offer a split prism focusing screen so to me focusing would very difficult.

I checked my fa lenses yesterday with my lens align pro to check for front / back focus and they were all very close, so I know my af is working well

I just find this whole thing interesting when pentax finally released the 645d last year in japan, they were marketing the camera as a good choice for landscape shooters.
I wonder what lenses they were using? Diglloyd I think tested 2 or 3 copies of the 55mm swd, and although the close up shots looked really good he told me he thought it was not a good performer when shot at infinity, soft corners.

Now what?

Even if I and the money for the S2, I really didn't want another 3:2 camera I already have an M9 and a d3s.

Steven

 

[Terry]

Pentax has said that not all of the lenses will be optimal (up to snuff) on the 645D. I believe the 80-160 is supposed to be a good performer. Have you also watched the video on Luminous Landscape where they had a Pentax rep? Have you spoken to anyone from Pentax on lenses?