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Thread: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

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    User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Hi,

    Have been considering on stepping to a tech camera for awhile . Thus in choice of lenses I much appreciate user feedback relating to

    1. Cast Effects are these an issue?
    2. Is lens calibration necessary for each shot?
    3. Do image circles exceed those recommended by Schneider Rodenstock?

    for specific following lenses (but please feel free to share experience of more lenses )

    S24XL, R23HR-S, R28HR-S

    S47XL, R50HR-W, new S60 (in case someone knows something)

    (S=Schneider Digitar, R= Rodenstock digital)

    Thank you.

    Regards
    Anders

  2. #2
    gmerrell
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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Anders,
    I have been using a Cambo tech camera for about a year now.
    I am still learning and trying to figure it out. It has been great fun.

    The only lens I have experience with is the S47XL.
    I chose this lense on recommendation of Steve Hendrix (Capture Integration) The lens is kind of mid range, not to wide and not to narrow.The image circle it produces is very large and allows me to shift a substantial amount in every direction.
    You can stitch together a very large panel of images.
    The image quality of the lense is tremendous. I normally shoot
    Nikon and Mamiya (75-150) lenses and in my opinion the image quality is superior in every way.
    I have been doing a LCC (Lens Cast Correction) on every shot, but Doug Peterson (Capture Integration) recently pointed out to me that I don't need to do that for every shot. Instead I can save a LCC for every shift position of the back and use these in Capture one when I process. This seems to work well and eliminates a lot of work in the field.
    Another reason I chose this lens to start with is I don't need a center filter. It is my understanding that on most wider lenses
    a center filter is required.

    I hope this is some help to you.

    Greg

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    there's a new 43XL that seems to be even better...

    you should avoid the 24XL, the apo sironar digital 35.

    the 35XL is a really sharp little lens, but not being retro focus, it's not a good option with some backs (i like mine.. )

    the 23HR is really wide, and nearly no mvt available

    the 28HR is a fantastic lens, but with larger sensors, the IC is somewhat limited.

    schneider where supposed to realise a super digitar 28... but still not available !

    there's a new 32HR from rodenstock... a really good lens, but really big, and it needs to be handle with care... copal 0 is really small compare to the front element...

    if i was buying new today, i will go for :

    R28HR-S but, i would wait to see the schneider...
    or i will start with the 32HR and stiching...

    43XL and 60XL(no user report...)



    but 40HR, 50HR and 70HR are good options too !

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Many thanks for your above posts!

    Apologies for many questions, but it is much appreciated if anyone has info.

    Current I use Aptus 65 44x33mm sensor but I plan to upgrade to FF at some point in future, thus wish to get lenses that I will not need to change.

    1) Same as Greg I have been told that it should work to pre-save LCC profiles. However I read some post of that the type of light effects, as is what Leaf technical notes also imply. Does anyone have more info?

    2) I do have a used S47XL that I can put into a mount. This lens is not of retrofocal design, however are there much cast effects with it also when not using shift, or only when shifting? Or would a R50HRW be significant better, and which is of retrofocal design?

    3) I tend to like fall off on images, however with LCC it is my understanding this gets removed? Or is there a way to maintain the natural fall off of the lens when making LCC? I use C1.

    4) The new S60 is interesting option. However would a 60mm lens on FF make difficult to focus by guesstimate?

    5) In regards to 28-32. The new R32 is assumably stellar but $$ and requires use of 86mm filters. Likewise the new S28 apparent requires 95mm and 112mm filters through adapter. Interesting to note though is that Alpa website now feature a new Alpa Apo-Helvatar 5.6/28 which might be Alpa's own label of the new S28 but there is no info of filter sizes or center filters... Thus at current seems the R28HR-S is option. Based on the stitch info of following post seems it can be used up to 82mm IC if one calculates based on the data provided http://www.openphotographyforums.com...odenstock+28mm
    Anyone with more info?

    6) 23 and 24 will be too wide on a FF sensor for me. A 28mm focal would actually rather perfect be the average for my current and future sensor to match my 72mm XL on 4x5, or 43mm on Mamiya 7. However, as an amateur the S24XL is interesting because it is available for less price and can be found used mounted. However, with a FF sensor it would require a crop to say 36x45mm sensor size (proportions of 4x5).

    Thank you much for further info.

    Regards,
    Anders

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Re color cast:
    generally longer lenses show less color cast than wider lenses / Rodenstock less than Schneider (due to the retrofocus design of the Rodenstocks) / Dalsa sensors less than Kodak sensors.
    But: they all show some kind of color cast so you have to correct it anyway. In my opinion color cast is practically a non-issue as the correction based on a white reference shot works very, very well (at least in Capture One).

    In the begining you might think it's a lot of cumbersome work to shoot and apply LCCs but you get used to it quickly.
    I don't use LCC presets; I shoot LCCs in the respective scene.
    Try what works best for you...

    re # 3) in your last post: light falloff can be adjusted from 0%-120% correction (in C1).

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Many thanks for your above posts!





    4) The new S60 is interesting option. However would a 60mm lens on FF make difficult to focus by guesstimate?

    http://www.openphotographyforums.com...odenstock+28mm
    Anyone with more info?


    Thank you much for further info.

    Regards,
    Anders
    As you have probably guessed the wides are very tough to focus unless tethered. With practice you can guess the distance and also take a couple of extra images with front focus and back focus settings. The 60 should be relatively easy to focus with on ground glass with a loupe but not so easy guesstimating. I've tried Digitars all the way up to 120mm with focus success on ground glass.

    Victor

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    I've been using a Cambo WRS for slightly over 2-years now with a trio of Schneider lenses, 35, 72, and 120mm. I went through the exercise of setting up a library of LCCs for each lens and that's worked out well for the most part. I've recently begun to shoot a LCC for each image which as worked out even better as there's sometime I forget which lens I used and what amount of movement (sloppy recordkeeping on my part).

    I agree with Thomas - it while it might on the surface sound cumbersome it become second nature shortly and you simply no longer think about it.

    Don
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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I agree with Thomas - it while it might on the surface sound cumbersome it become second nature shortly and you simply no longer think about it.

    Don
    I agree, very simple to do especially if you stick to a routine and always do it. I still mess up sometimes when going from shooting the LCC with +2 stops of exposure and then forgetting to reset the exposure for the following normal shot. Still, I'm not a very coordinated dancer either so that's just me ...

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    I much appreciate the above replies, thank you.

    For LCC in C1 there are tick boxes for color cast, light falloff and dust removal. Any experience on how effective C1 is thus to only remove the color cast and not light falloff?

    Thanks!

    Regards
    Anders

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    the 35XL is a really sharp little lens, but not being retro focus, it's not a good option with some backs (i like mine.. )
    Can someone please explain this statement. I've heard this mentioned several time on here and LL but it seems to me many people use both designs of lens on modern digi backs without any problems.

    My understanding is with the wide angles lenses, retrofocus (Rodenstock) can be used on flat lens panels and have better edge illumination but with more distortion and smaller image circles in comparison to the non retrofocus (Schneider) designs. And thats the choice/trade off you make by choosing the different types.

    Am I miles off with these assumptions?

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Can someone please explain this statement. I've heard this mentioned several time on here and LL but it seems to me many people use both designs of lens on modern digi backs without any problems.

    My understanding is with the wide angles lenses, retrofocus (Rodenstock) can be used on flat lens panels and have better edge illumination but with more distortion and smaller image circles in comparison to the non retrofocus (Schneider) designs. And thats the choice/trade off you make by choosing the different types.

    Am I miles off with these assumptions?
    There are problems on the larger full frame sensors with the edges due to the angle the light is hitting the sensor. Check this out on the Phase site:

    http://www.phaseone.com/en/search/ar...1&languageid=1

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Thanks for the link Terry. I never had any idea of these problems.

    I was interested in the new Schneider 43XL but this information suggestes the better option to be the Rodenstock 40HR. However, I have seen a post by Chris Barrett about the 43XL which he uses with a P65 without problem.

    Confusing all this.

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    For LCC in C1 there are tick boxes for color cast, light falloff and dust removal. Any experience on how effective C1 is thus to only remove the color cast and not light falloff?
    Anyone with experience of above? Thanks

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Anyone with experience of above? Thanks
    You can remove the cast and leave the falloff where it is or if you like you can use a slider to correct it in a more controllable manner

    Some prefer to remove the falloff and to apply vignetting afterwards, which is another option in Capture One

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    Re: User Experience: Cast Effects, Lens Calibration and ICs

    Many thanks Yair!

    Regards
    Anders

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