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Phase One Lens Guidance

V

vjbelle

Well-known member
I am upgrading my Medium Format equipment from Hasselblad to Phase and would like some guidance regarding the Phase lenses. Is there a difference between the two 80mm lenses? Are there any preferences for the medium wides (55 or 45)? Is the 110 worth a consideration? My Hasselblad lenses are currently 80, 150 and 210..... all sharp as a tack. For wide I use an Alpa and 35XL. Mostly landscapes, cityscapes and gardens.

Thanks for any feedback....

Victor
 
Bob

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
My two favorite primes are the 80LS and the 110LS
Both have beautiful rendering and the LS permits high speed strobe sync.
The 150D is about as sharp as you could want but I frequently use the 75-150 in studio and as a very good general purpose zoom.

The 55LS is lovely in the center but gets bit soft for me in the corners with a full frame sensor.

The 45D is the most useful wide.
For very wide you have a choice of the 28D and the new 35D (which I have yet to try) Good copies of the older 35 can be found.

The two 80s render differently and the LS version of course sports a leaf shutter. I prefer the rendering and bokeh of the 80LS but that is a great subject for debate over drinks.
The 55-110 is a somewhat spotty lens with a good dose of CA. You need to hunt for a good copy.
The 300 seems to be a reliable performer.
-bob
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Bob,

Shame to hear about the 55..... I really need sharp edge to edge. My concerns are that the Phase lenses can't live up to the sharpness of my current lineup. I assume that you have used both of the 80's..... is one sharper than the other?

Victor
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Guy,

I looked at that yesterday with great interest..... my concerns were regarding differences between the Schneider glass and Mamiya. The 55 is perfect for my needs. I realize that wides have some curvature which I can accept.... but not alignment issues. The 150 is a given but I'm up in the air about which 80. These will all be used with IQ180.
 
kdphotography

kdphotography

Well-known member
The MFDB that you use (sensor size) can also impact the lenses that you choose/like. If you have a crop sensor like the P30/P40, you can get away with more. Even the slight crop on the P45 makes a difference over a full framed sensor P65, which is much more unforgiving on lenses. The 28mm D (and the old 35mm) is a great example.

The 150D is my favorite. 35D and 110LS on the way. I think the Schneiders and the D series are up to task for the latest generation of backs.

Don't forget the 120mm D. Very nice. There's a 120 D in the GetDPI buy/sell forum.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
vjbelle said:
Guy,

I looked at that yesterday with great interest..... my concerns were regarding differences between the Schneider glass and Mamiya. The 55 is perfect for my needs. I realize that wides have some curvature which I can accept.... but not alignment issues. The 150 is a given but I'm up in the air about which 80. These will all be used with IQ180.
Click to expand...
The new 55mm LS is a sweet heart but it seems on the FF sensors it goes a touch softer in the corners on the P40 it is awesome but you do have a option and that is sharpen corners in C1. Or if you really need across the frame the new 45mm will get you there. The 28d is also very very good but the extreme corners on FF same thing a touch soft. Now if you regard the 28mm as a 30mm and crop slightly all gone or again corner sharpness but I think the Phase 28mm is better than the Hassy from what I have seen . It has less distortion for starters . Although with DAC the H 28 picks it up a great deal.

The problem is full frame and wides it gets tough sometimes. I have the new Phase 35mm and seems good but I need to try it on a P65+ which i will do on this workshop next week. My 55mm was good on the 80 MPX in center but fell off some in the corners. The 80 LS has a look but they both are very sharp. I think between the 80's it's a coin flip. The LS has more look to it though or character. The 110mm is very very nice and the 150 is legendary. I may have made that so. LOL Love that lens and don't under estimate the 300mm. The 120 Macro maybe one of the best around and just take my word for it Phase has a lot up it's sleeve. If I actually bought the 80mpx IQ 180. I may just go with a Alpa with 47 and 35 or something like that for the wide end or see what is next in the Phase lineup. But the Phase glass is very good and the new Schneiders are very sweet. But I know Bob and Jack where or are disappointed a little on the 55LS. I would like Phase to look into this but a safe bet right now is the 45D and 28D if you treat it like a 30 on a FF.

The one beauty of the crop sensor and maybe the only one in my book is I never run into any of the corner issues. Most likely the 45+ would not either it is just the way outside of the frame. Honestly end of day i am probably just going to buy the IQ 140 with the same sensor. I want the tech but I really don't need the MPX in a way. Yea love to have them and with sensor plus even more so. But as a Pro and business on the downside I have be careful. Just reality but I would kill for the IQ 180.

So depending on back you are after and focal lengths this will come into play. If i went FF I would probably sell the 28mm if the new 35mm would be okay which on the P40+ it is hitting all the check marks but I will know more next week.

The one nice thing of the Phase lenses is they are pretty small compared to some of there counterparts of other OEM's. Also the 3 LS will sync at 1/1600 which is a nice option to have.
 
ondebanks

ondebanks

Member
The evidence does not confirm that the 55mm LS is a Schneider design. It is the same optically as the older Mamiya AF 55mm. How do I know? From the absolutely identical optical cross-sections. Attached find the two side by side - I put this comparison together in a couple of minutes; the LS version is a P1 advertisement, and I grabbed the original non-LS AF version from the 645AFD II brochure.

Can you tell the difference? No, neither can I.

Perhaps PhaseOne would like to clarify exactly what role Schneider had in designing this 55mm LS lens? It looks like they merely rubber-stamped the original excellent Mamiya design. Maybe tweaked the coatings.

The other two LS lenses are genuinely new designs, and no doubt Schneider had a direct role in their optical configuration.

Anyhow...there is now a confusing array of M645/Phase lens generations: C, S, N, AF, D, and lastly LS. But not all designs were changed in all generations.
To help disentangle what's what, I've attached some info on the 3 AF wideangles (before the 28mm came along). On the top are my observations regarding these AF designs versus all variants of the old MF lenses (C, S, N). I don't refer to the D or LS lenses in this case.

Ray
 
Bob

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
vjbelle said:
Bob,

Shame to hear about the 55..... I really need sharp edge to edge. My concerns are that the Phase lenses can't live up to the sharpness of my current lineup. I assume that you have used both of the 80's..... is one sharper than the other?

Victor
Click to expand...
I have used them both and I would say that they are roughly equally sharp, but I prefer the 80LS rendering.
I think that the sharpest lens I have ever used bar none is the 150D
-bob
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Guy,

These lenses will be used with an IQ180 back. Its good to hear about the 45 though I had wanted this medium wide to be a little longer. My 35XL gets me wide enough for almost any issues I come up to - like tight areas in Chinese gardens. I suggest that you be very careful with Alpa lenses.... there's lots to go wrong - I finally settled on my third 35XL - my 47 went back! A good dealer is very important!

Thanks for post.....

Victor
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
vjbelle said:
Guy,

These lenses will be used with an IQ180 back. Its good to hear about the 45 though I had wanted this medium wide to be a little longer. My 35XL gets me wide enough for almost any issues I come up to - like tight areas in Chinese gardens. I suggest that you be very careful with Alpa lenses.... there's lots to go wrong - I finally settled on my third 35XL - my 47 went back! A good dealer is very important!

Thanks for post.....

Victor
Click to expand...
Well you do have 80 mpx to work with and even if you had to crop a bit 60 or 70 ain't bad. :D

The thing is a monster out there.
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Yair,

Thanks for the upload.... You are at the outer edge of the f/stop range for my comfort. I usually try to stay under f11 but f11 may be the magic f/stop for the 55.

Victor
 
Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Mamiya 55 vs Schneider 55 LS


Last May I compared these two lenses side by side. The LS blew away the Mamiya 55 in the corners.

Now, I may have had a poor Mamiya or an exceptional LS - or perhaps Phase/Schneider does better quality control, or despite the apparent similar lens design there are differences. And of course, a leaf shutter.

So I don't know the "why" but I do know the new lens is better. This has been confirmed by several other users I've shot with.
 
Jack

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I would have loved the 55LS to equal or even be close to the 80 and 110, but the copy I demo'd was not. It never got crisp in the corners, so I returned it. I use the 45D instead. It looses a bit in the extreme corners, but the rendering is very nice overall. If I need it sharp corner to corner, I shoot a little loose and crop it to about a 50 and get it all sharp.
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Jack Flesher said:
I would have loved the 55LS to equal or even be close to the 80 and 110, but the copy I demo'd was not. It never got crisp in the corners, so I returned it. I use the 45D instead. It looses a bit in the extreme corners, but the rendering is very nice overall. If I need it sharp corner to corner, I shoot a little loose and crop it to about a 50 and get it all sharp.
Click to expand...
Jack,

What f/stop delivers acceptable results for you with the 45D? f11 (as an example) is stopping down almost too much for me...I would really like to shoot at 5.6 or f8. I don't mind some of the image not being in focus - in fact I kind of like it. BUT.... what I want in focus I want to REALLY be in focus edge to edge at that focus plane. Are you noticing curvature? The problem with any wides is that without shift they take in some of the foreground that can't possibly be in focus as it is outside of the focus zone.

Victor
 
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