Whoo hoo!! At long last, my Hy6 has arrived!

[Graham Mitchell]

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would choose the Sinar Hy6 over the Leaf AFi7. Especially after hearing all the Sinar software horror stories AND having a great experience with my Leaf 75S.

Horror stories? I've been using a Sinar back for 1.5 years now. An earlier version of Captureshop was occasionally unstable but fine after a restart. That's about it. Now we have Exposure as well, and Brumbaer of course. And we can use many developers to process the DNG files. I was under the impression that Sinar software was a plus!

Then there is the rotating adapter, interchangeable mount, etc. It's not hard to see why people choose it.

 

[EH21]

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would choose the Sinar Hy6 over the Leaf AFi7. Especially after hearing all the Sinar software horror stories AND having a great experience with my Leaf 75S.

I haven't used either software but the advantages of the Sinar which can easily be switched between systems is a big deal for some and also the rotating back is nice. I still shoot with my 6008 AF but will upgrade sometime but was put off by the Leaf back. Big as it is I don't like the touch screen and business of the menu system.

My real preference is a Phase back though.

 

[David K]

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would choose the Sinar Hy6 over the Leaf AFi7. Especially after hearing all the Sinar software horror stories AND having a great experience with my Leaf 75S.

Doug,
Speaking as someone who has made this change, not only from Leaf to Sinar, but from the back you are using to the Sinar, I can assure you there are a lot of very good reasons. First off, the image quality is every bit as good from my e75LV as it was with the Aptus 75S. I can only assume that this is also true of the Leaf Afi since it uses the same sensor, but I haven't tried that back so can't speak from experience. Second, the Sinar revolving adapter and changeable adapter plates are not available on the Afi. For me this was a hugely differentiating factor as I can now shoot my Hy6, Contax or Hasselblad cameras on the same back. Third, Leaf charges more money for less kit. Last time I looked the Leaf Afi was the same price as the Hy6 but it didn't come with a lens. And, speaking from memory, Leaf lenses were more costly too. With regard to software, Leaf Capture left me cold and it wasn't my choice of conversion software. Whether Exposure or Leaf Capture is better or worse is beyond my capability to evaluate but my impression is that they are pretty much in the same category. However, the Brumbaer software, which is extremely highly regarded by all that use it, is only available for Sinar files and not for Leaf. Last, but certainly not least, is the support offered by Thierry and other Sinar users right here on this forum. Nobody here uses the Afi nor do I see Leaf representatives posting here any more. Frankly, I would ask the opposite question, why would anyone buy a Leaf Afi when Sinar offers more for less money. Please don't take this as a Leaf bash, all my friends here know I loved my 75S and think the images it produces were spectacular. I'm happy to say the images you've posted show that this hasn't changed

 

[DougDolde]

OK so I stirred you guys up. I respect your viewpoint but I'd never adopt it myself. I think Leaf Capture 11 is great by the way.

 

[BradleyGibson]

Hi, Doug,

If I assume the question is not rhetorical, I can provide an answer.

Once I'd decided to go with the Hy6, it came down to Rollei, Sinar and Leaf.

I didn't end up with the Rollei because of the weak support here in the US and the pricing set by the US distributors.

I decided not to go with the Leaf for specific reasons, which, of course may or may not matter to others. For me:
* the way the persistent centerfold issues were being handled at the time they were on my short list was a turn-off
* Noise above ISO 50 was high relative to Phase (as was Sinar, BTW)
* The back was highly vented (bad for me since I am always outdoors (in Seattle)
* Fans = moving parts = trouble in dusty or dirty environments.
* Daylight visibility of the screen was quite poor. This is a bigger problem for the Leaf since the screen is also the interface. I can't just memorize a couple of button presses and move on
* Windows CE based interface was too slow for me responding to my input
* Touch screen is not friendly to mitt or glove operation (Leaf and Sinar are). I do a lot of winter photography.
* After a $3000 experience with Phase and mount swaps, and hearing of similar gnashing-of-teeth over Leaf customers wanting to economically upgrade their non-Hy6 AFI to the Hy6, the importance of adapter plates has been made abundantly clear to me. Only Hasselblad and Sinar embrace this.

Please don't misinterpret this as me picking on Leaf--in answer to your question, these are the things that influenced my decision. In totality, there is plenty to like about the back, the large & generous screen, the color scheme, Yair's support, etc., and wouldn't be much trouble at all to come up with a list just as long for the issues I have to work around with using the Sinar. I don't know of any solution that doesn't come with its share of compromises.

But instead, of focusing on the negative, I'd prefer to look at the positive side: I found that Sinar is trying hard to responding to their customer's needs--some recent examples include the revolving back adapters, 45-degree finders modified to allow revolving, continued evolution of their plate system, upgraded electronics and displays in their backs, and so on. Further back, Sinar opened a support forum to field questions directly from the general public on an unreleased product. I can imagine they had "better" things to do with their time, but this type of responsiveness to my needs got my attention (YMMV).

But, honestly, is it really *that* hard to imagine that things might add up differently for different people?

Best regards,
Brad

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would choose the Sinar Hy6 over the Leaf AFi7. Especially after hearing all the Sinar software horror stories AND having a great experience with my Leaf 75S.

 

[BradleyGibson]

As you might imagine, I couldn't quite wait until the weekend to go shooting.

Plans for a summit attempt on Mount Rainier this weekend were postponed on account of bad weather, so I put off doing some chores to go shooting around town yesterday evening.

I settled on an unusual location--Gas Works Park. It is a location that was opened in 1906 to convert coal to gas (presumably for industrial and/or residential use). As the economy moved to natural gas in the '50's the plant was shut down. It was cleaned up and converted into a park in 1975.

All kinds of activities go on here, from kite flying on an elaborate inlaid sundial on top of a hill, a play area for kids made out of painted machinery that was once part of the working factory, and relics of the old factory simply left (as art?) for folks to contemplate -- ("what is that??").

I was impressed with the Hy6. I found myself working very smoothly with the camera--no fights, no hesitations (my Hasselblad loves to refuse to shoot until I acknowledge the message "Digital back is ready".... If it's ready, why don't you shoot????? Grrr....), just pictures. I'd have to say that the only way you could make me happier after this first shoot is to make the lenses 1/10th the weight without changing their quality or silky smooth operation and/or give the whole thing away for free.

My first shoot was superb. I'm finally where I want to be.

Any issues?

Yup--the camera seems to eat batteries. I thought that I would need to worry about the back, but the back had a mostly full battery, while the camera died. I was going to do the swap batteries trick, but my Sinar back is very tight with the Sony and Ray-O-Vac batteries I have. Even the battery from Sinar for the camera barely fits in the back's battery slot. I'm afraid that if I push it all the way in, I'll never get the battery out. (The back is soon to be upgraded for a "generation 2" unit, so I will keep my fingers crossed and hope this is just an issue with my particular unit for now.)

I posted a few photos up on my gallery. You are welcome to take a look at http://GibsonPhotographic.com/Gas Works Park, if you are so inclined.

Comments and feedback are welcome!

Take care,
Brad

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Brad, a very nice series and great to see that you're producing quality work from day one with the new camera!

 

[BradleyGibson]

Thank you, Graham!

-Brad

 

[thsinar]

The modified 45° prism to allow the Sinar revolving adapter to rotate was modified by Sinar: there is no way such a revolving adapter does work with a (non-modified) 6008 45° finder version.

Best regards,
Thierry

I have a Rolleiflex Hy6 version of the 45 degree prism and I would like to warn you all that it does not have the " scalloped area " as BJNY named the modified rear part of the prism.
I do not have a revolving back yet and cannot comment on the use of the Sinar revolving adapter with the Rollei 45 degree prism.
Yevgeny

 

[thsinar]

Tell me more about these "horror" stories, Doug. If there are such, then be sure that they can be found with any software, and usually they find their explanation in a lack of knowing how to use the SW.

Best regards,
Thierry

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would choose the Sinar Hy6 over the Leaf AFi7. Especially after hearing all the Sinar software horror stories AND having a great experience with my Leaf 75S.

 

[thsinar]

Brad, those are indeed very beautiful shots (regardless of the camera/back used):

bravo!

Can you give details on the lens(es) used?

Thierry

 

[BradleyGibson]

Thank you, Thierry!

Sure, the details are pretty straightforward--I haven't named these, so I'll just go in order.

#1 - Schneider Tele-Xenar 180/2.8 - 1/250th @ f/8
#2 - Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 300/4 + Rollei Apogon (Longar) 1.4x - 1/50th @ f/8
#3 - Zeiss Planar 110/2 - 1/320th @ f/5
#4 - Schneider Super-Angulon 40/3.5 - 1/60th @ f/11
#5 - Schneider Curtagon 60/3.5 - 1/15th @ f/8
#6 - Schneider Super-Angulon 40/3.5 - 1/30th @ f/11
#7 - Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 300/4 + Rollei Apogon (Longar) 1.4x - 1/25 @ f/8
#8 - Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 300/4 + Rollei Apogon (Longar) 1.4x - 1/25th @ f/8

Thierry, I would love to see the lens/lens combination (or even just the effective focal length) recorded in the metadata, so that we can remember what we used to shoot what. (It was already getting foggy for me! ) If you could forward such a request to the right person, I'd be grateful.

Take care,
Brad

 

[thsinar]

Brad,

There is the exposure/f-stop in the metadata, as well as the camera, the back, the date, the ISO, the exposure mode, the metering mode, the WB, etc ...: I think it should be possible the register as well the focal length: I shall forward to the right person.

Thanks,
Thierry

Thierry, I would love to see the lens/lens combination (or even just the effective focal length) recorded in the metadata, so that we can remember what we used to shoot what. (It was already getting foggy for me! ) If you could forward such a request to the right person, I'd be grateful.

Take care,
Brad

 

[BradleyGibson]

Yes, I am aware of the exposure metadata (believe me, I did not memorize the exposures!), but perhaps you mention this for clarity.

Thank you for passing along this request. Recording the effective focal length (including the effect of a TC in the optical path) would be fantastic.

Best regards,
Brad

Brad,

There is the exposure/f-stop in the metadata, as well as the camera, the back, the date, the ISO, the exposure mode, the metering mode, the WB, etc ...: I think it should be possible the register as well the focal length: I shall forward to the right person.

Thanks,
Thierry

 

[dlew308]

Wow very nice work!
The first pic really stands out, like 3Dish....cool stuff

 

[BradleyGibson]

Thanks, dlew.

Re: 3D: I couldn't agree more. The 180 really blew me away with its dimensionality. None of my other photographs include an aspect of the landscape, but I was so pleased by this I had to include this photograph.

The final photograph (taken with the 300 + 1.4x TC) also has this feel, but it doesn't stand out to quite the same degree. I feel it's the scale of the elements in the photograph, not the lens itself, but time will tell.

Take care,
-Brad

Wow very nice work!
The first pic really stands out, like 3Dish....cool stuff

 

[Dale Allyn]

I'll add my voice here, Brad. Beautiful series.

I'm jealous of your Northwest weather as we've been stuck with super bright, intense light these past several days. One can find the light, but it's short lived as we've been sans clouds for a while. But I shouldn't complain as Guy and others in AZ have what looks to be hotter and more intense conditions.

Best,

Dale

 

[Yevgeny NP]

The modified 45° prism to allow the Sinar revolving adapter to rotate was modified by Sinar: there is no way such a revolving adapter does work with a (non-modified) 6008 45° finder version.

Best regards,
Thierry

Dear Thierry,
I was referring to the new HY6 Rollei version of the 45 degree prism, not the revolving 45 degree 6008 prism. I was saying that Rolleiflex and Sinar HY6 prisms look different.
Yevgeny

 

[thsinar]

Dear Yevgeny,

ye, I know. But in fact, there is no new Hy6 45° prismfinder: it is the very same as the one for the 6008 (the mount is the same, may the colour has been changed). If you want to use it with the revolving adapter, it needs to be modified as shown in Billy's snapshots. And this is done by Sinar.

Best regards,
Thierry

Dear Thierry,
I was referring to the new HY6 Rollei version of the 45 degree prism, not the revolving 45 degree 6008 prism. I was saying that Rolleiflex and Sinar HY6 prisms look different.
Yevgeny

 

[BradleyGibson]

Thanks, Dale!

Yes, I agree about the spring, summer and fall here in the Pacific Northwest... I've lived in a lot of places, and my wife is Japanese. We both agree that the weather here, and particularly the clouds are uniquely beautiful. She has done a whole series on Seattle clouds that I am encouraging her to show.

Now winter? That's a bit different. Although I'm from Canada and am used to cloudy winters, Seattle's can be somewhat dreary. And the "winters" we got when we lived in the Bay Area had much more sun, to be sure!

But having somewhat low-angle light all day (when you can see it, that is) makes up for it. Sorta. (I'll just keep telling myself that! )

Thanks again for the kind words.

Take care,
Brad