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Thread: Can MF take the heat

  1. #51
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Something is weird. I know Guy knows color, but have to agree with Robert that this image looks too blue and I am viewing it in Safari. I took the liberty of pulling the jpeg above into CS and just doing a Q&D WB on the white between the lights of closest emergency vehicle, then dialed it back a bit because shade should have some blue. I get this, which looks maybe a tad too yellow but still better to me on my monitor. We had an issue with Browsers several months back so I am curious as to what tint differences folks see on these?
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  2. #52
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    See now it looks to warm..

    Okay lets look at this image same scene almost white balanced directly off the truck see my circle came in at 5200 +4
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  3. #53
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    I'm going to post a raw file . Please keep this image here thanks
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  4. #54
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Okay here we go . I just re-calibrated my monitor yesterday too.To me they look just about perfect give or take to taste but comments like way blue and yellow make me nervous

    https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...D1EEE446A04791
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  5. #55
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Jack's version is very "jaundice" to me. Guy's is a bit too cool on the skin tones IMO (#52). And Guy's post in #49 definitely looks greenish on her arm to me.

    Calibrated display (ACD + EyeOne Display 2) and Safari 3.04.

  6. #56
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Guy, just for reference, I think "way blue" is too strong. And I think that taste definitely enters in too.

  7. #57
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Dale try processing it
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Guy:

    I just calibrated my monitor five minutes ago and nothing changed.

    I opened the page in both Safari and Firefox 3. The firefox image looks a bit more saturated and a bit more red.

    BTW, the file you posted was a tif. Is it a raw tif or a raw converted to a tif?

    Robert

  9. #59
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    And ACR just sucks over a stop too dark. Something is wrong with ACR and Phase files because it is way to dark. Kelvin comes in at 2350 what's up with that . Okay so WB off the same spot on truck it goes to 3450 Kelvin plus i have to add a stop of exposure. And typical red crap from ACR as usually. Everything RED, there freaking color blind at Abobe
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  10. #60
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Guy:

    I just calibrated my monitor five minutes ago and nothing changed.

    I opened the page in both Safari and Firefox 3. The firefox image looks a bit more saturated and a bit more red.

    BTW, the file you posted was a tif. Is it a raw tif or a raw converted to a tif?

    Robert
    That is a raw .tif Phase uses the same extension. Confusing
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  11. #61
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Jack I thought I saw your post , were is it
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    How does this one look...

  13. #63
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    I see from this that Jack's monitor or Jack's eye/taste is a bit warmer than mine (more to the yellow). Working with the RAW which Guy posted I'm liking a color temp of about 5200K and a tint of around +5. There is some room around that area that works for me. Adding about 8 to 10 in saturation at this point helps too. Shadow 6, Highlight 23. All in C-1 v4.1.1. (ICC Profile used was P25+ Flash)

    One can get close to this by sampling the white straps in front of the oxygen bottle beneath the gurney behind her elbow. Note: the file is not the same as Jack is using.

    Much of this may boil down to taste and ambient light at our workstations.
    Last edited by Dale Allyn; 24th June 2008 at 17:16. Reason: Clarification and slight adjustment of details

  14. #64
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Mine is at 5300 I think with plus 2 which is very close. Looks like LR is going to get trashed
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  15. #65
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Guy:

    Are you using DCAM-4 as the editing space in Photoshop? I think I asked this earlier in the thread, but didn't get an answer.

    I opened the file using Capture 1 and there was a huge difference whether I used profoto or Dcam4 as the profile to save it with and edit in Photoshop.

    Robert

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Profoto color space in C1 and PS
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    guy

    To my taste (using Firefox 3 with my Eizo monitor totally calibrated) the images are very close to right. If you recall I was the one who initially thought the images you were shooting were too blue but granted that was in very early morning light.

    At this point you may want to bump the red down a hair and the yellow up a hair. I will try it myself and see how I like it. But I think you are so close you need very little adjustment to get it spot on.

    I am still early in the learning curve with my H3D and this stuff is not trivial. But boy, when you get it right............WOWZA

    Best

    Woody

  18. #68
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Well I just processed it in C1, set it to P25+ Daylight, film standard and Daylight WB and got exactly what you showed above. I thought it a bit better if I moved WB to 5800 and tint to 0, but that was a very minor change from yours, maybe 1/3 of the way toward my yeloow version above. Weird. Maybe it's just our personal preference or that uber high-contrast Arizona Sun LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
    Jack
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  19. #69
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Thanks Woody. It is damn close at least in my mind and what I am seeing. Not going to stress over it just yet. I will wait until Doug can help me from CI to get it maybe calibrated a little better. Scary thing is most clients have no clue about color management.
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  20. #70
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    I ran it through C1 V4 using, P25+ Portrait Neutral, film extra shadow, 5100,-2 and - .33 in exposure.

    Here is the Dcam version converted to sRGB, followed by the Prophoto version, converted to sRGB. These are straight coversions. Some dodging and burning probably needs to be done to fine tune the image.

    Robert

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Well I just processed it in C1, set it to P25+ Daylight, film standard and Daylight WB and got exactly what you showed above. I thought it a bit better if I moved WB to 5800 and tint to 0, but that was a very minor change from yours, maybe 1/3 of the way toward my yeloow version above. Weird. Maybe it's just that uber high-contrast Arizona Sun LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
    Jack I think this is the real issue is this sun, I have been doing just fine with some flash stuff and the like. This sun here is a freaking nightmare no matter how you slice it. Also Robert don't go by the asphalt because it is all brown dust , we have not seen rain in months so everything is dusty, something I noticed too but just a nasty layer of dust so hard to go by.
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Yes Portrait neutral desaturates some, so does extra shadow. Which you can do in the shadow slider also
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    I need to confess, that being the moron that I am, I first processed it with the ICC Profile of P25+ Flash rather than "outdoor daylight". I did redo it before reading the posts of you others and find that it's still pretty close to the specs I mentioned above, though some tweaking from those helps a bit IMO. I just wanted to come clean on my miss-step on the profile setting.

    Umm, Phase One, how about giving us a preference control to set the default ICC profile??!! Like in v3.7.8. I'm not real bright so I do that nearly every time I open the damn program.

  24. #74
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    There is still the blues being a bit off. You may want to try it with a warming filter or a UV filter to see if it cuts some of the hot Arizona sun and blue skies.

  25. #75
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Here is a slight revision -- we may may onto something. I used 5800 +1 for color (which is closer to the flash setting than outdoor), but dialed saturation down to -5. Looks pretty good overall to me now. But I agree, I think your sun has a higher than normal blue-yellow bright to shade differential -- why I think the lower saturation helped a little:
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  26. #76
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Same as I uses above, but minus half a stop in exposure. The blues are looking a bit better.

  27. #77
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Yes i might have to agree on the saturation just knocking it down a touch improves it. IT"S BRIGHT HERE. I need to move can't stand the heat anymore. 114 today . Eleven days straight over 110. No desire to go outside. NONE
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Seeing Jacks, here is mine again, at 5500,-2.

  29. #79
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    That one is better Robert ,I think it got a little too desaturated on the last ones . that film extra shadow one use with care. I like the shadow slider for the control which BTW i did have on all along just a touch
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    I think the key is -5 on saturation
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  31. #81
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    I need to confess, that being the moron that I am, I first processed it with the ICC Profile of P25+ Flash rather than "outdoor daylight". I did redo it before reading the posts of you others and find that it's still pretty close to the specs I mentioned above, though some tweaking from those helps a bit IMO. I just wanted to come clean on my miss-step on the profile setting.

    Umm, Phase One, how about giving us a preference control to set the default ICC profile??!! Like in v3.7.8. I'm not real bright so I do that nearly every time I open the damn program.
    I know we have been complaining of this one. It is promised in Pro
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  32. #82
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Alright I am sick of these images. LOL
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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Alright I am sick of these images. LOL
    Yeah, me too, but I had to go through it once more. LOL

    Soooo...

    In C-1 v4.1.1 I like the following:

    P25+ Outdoor Daylight
    Film Standard
    5500K
    Tint +5
    WB Hue: 336
    WB Saturation: 3%
    Exposure: -0.23
    Contrast: -4
    Saturation: -5
    Shadow: 15
    Highlight: 23

    And if I don't look at it again, and never view this thread again to compare it to conversions by you others, then I'm sure I'll be satisfied.

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    After fooling around with getting LR and C1 to make nice, I think that LR is toast, but I am still annoyed with all of the c1 directories that are left everywhere.
    -bob

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Bob,

    I agree with you. I find myself deleting C-1 folders that are created by just opening an image file to take a look at it –even some silly file sitting on the desktop that isn't to be processed.

    Maybe long-time C-1 users like the way the application works, and perhaps they feel LR or ACR/Bridge suck, but I would not be using C-1 if not for the superior handling of Phase One files. Just using it over the past couple of weeks has caused my carpel tunnel syndrome to flare up. Hopefully, they'll make a boat-load of money and reinvest it in fixing the C-1 UI.

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Well, last week I had carpal tunnel surgery on my mouse hand. I doubt that it was caused by this though.
    LR just really is awful for P45+ files sort of ok for M8 files if you tweak the color, not very good for D3 files, but pretty good for D200.
    Unless Adobe gets better on the raw side, I don't see any hope. I try to keep the same file structure no matter what processor I am using, and so far, the only one that screws with it is C1. Instead of keeping state in a database or side-car files like LR, C1 scatters this all over the place. If you delete those files, your state goes away. I had C1 so confused after one file cleanup, in my photo directory space, that it would not start.
    -bob

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    Re: Can MF take the heat

    Bob,

    I know that you had the surgery. I hope that you are healing well. I have carpel tunnel and ulnar neuritis (same thing, but last two fingers via the elbow). I'm an ex-rock climber and did a lot of other things to mess things up.

    Re. file structures: I'm a bit of dinosaur. I like my stuff in folders in the finder's Pictures folder (Mac). Like having an images folder at root. I use directory names like 20080624_Yosemite_1 for keeping them straight. XMP files are kept as "sidecars files" and everything works fine, regardless of application to view them. Enter C-1... well, you know. I'm sure the fine folks at Phase can explain that I'm a dolt and have been working wrong all these years, but that doesn't help my process much. I like my files to be held in a way that I can archive them all at once if I like. Search them quickly with the system search (Spotlight). Change computers and copy the volume over, etc.

    I don't envy Phase One in their task, but I can't help but feel that they aren't getting or accepting enough input from users as they design the software. ACR does an acceptable job on my Canon files when I do my part to drive it correctly. And it allows me to easily work with my files from the finder level which I prefer. I'd like to see C-1 adopt some conventions we're used to from CS3 and for Adobe to either do a better job on our Phase (or other maker's) files, or to build in a painless method for us to profile and calibrate our gear to use CS3/Bridge/ACR/LR.

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